I'm sorry if I missed this in your thread, but have you addressed this topic yet with your WW??? If so, and you have stated your boundaries, the unless you KNOW that Frank will be there, don't mention anything. Don't "punish" her with this unless the boundary is broken.

My reply would be: "Hey that sounds good! It'll help me get a few things done. Hope you're having a nice day."

Then be done. She may draw you into a conversation but just leave it be.

MWIL

Yes mwil....he stated his boundary, and she still had the kids go to Frank's dad place just the other day.....so sad to say it's an ongoing problem.

JS....don't lecture her....don't tell her what you'd "rather" she do...she will view that as controlling. Be upbeat but assertive about Frank.

I think maybe I would just like to say something like. "sounds good"

I told her before that I didn't want Frank spending the night there when the kids are there and she hasn't had him "overnight" since then.
She said I was trying to controll her.
I just said it was too confusing for the kids this early.
I actually told her that she could have him around while they were there so they can get used to him.
I never told her they can not see Frank because I don't have any credible evidence that he is a danger at this point, just heresay.

Sorry if I misled anyone.

I'm NEW I'm NEW
LOL
J

Jeff,

"Sounds good" is just fine. I'm not sure why "overnight" is the only limitation you have on Frank when it comes to your kids...but that's your call. Personally, a loser with no job, no home, who has a drinking problem (may/or may not be a drug dealer}...oh and is your spouse's affair partner.... would not be around my kids. The happy days at the horse farm with his dad are a way of getting him to have a close relationship with the kids....to NORMALIZE it. EEK....I don't like that.

I agree Star but I dont want to control her anymore. I wish someone else would tell her this.
I talked to her former best friend (girl who used to live in our neighborhood, moved to Florida)Saturday and when I told her what ww was doing, friend went NUTS.
She was my friend as well and she said that what ww was doing was very bad for our kids and that she couldn't believe it. She was PO'd
I got 3 e-mails from her former friend today (just jokes and such) but I noticed that she didn't send anything to ww.

I thought about having friend talk to ww but I doubt ww would tell her anything about Frank and if friend brings the subject of Frank up ww would know it came from me and that would put friend in a bad place.

I'm kind of stuck on this one for now.

Ok here's what I sent.

Per mwil

Short but not ~~cold~~
Hope you have a nice day shows a little caring but not clingy.

Thoughts about this?
J

Guess I was a little to vague in my last e-mail response to ww wife. She sent another e-mail.




My reply.
I got your earlier e-mail and everything sounded fine. If S12 wants to go with you tonight then I will leave after you get back from orientation.

Am I plan Aing?
I seem kind of distant....is that ok?
I'm not being very nicy nicy.

Any ideas

nicy nicy is for chumps JS and that's not Plan A. Be loving and assertive....calm and confident....attractive....that's Plan A. I think your responses are fine.....she's just used to more....good. Let her be a little confused and off balance.

I'm just not real comfortable yet, still a little confused.
I'll get it.
J

Jeff....you ARE "getting it" and you're doing just fine. Less is more sometimes. Don't be surprised if her tune changes from "you're too controlling" to "you don't care about me" because you won't rescue her or enable her affair and single life.

Be receptive....but don't be the intiator right now.

Jeff....that sounds good...I'd caution that if it is "too" out of character to react like that, then blend it in over time....just as it will take time for you to heal....she know's deep down that you are the better man....let that better man heal a bit, on your own.

Keep plugging!
MWIL

You both have good points. I don’t want to seem to “distant” but I don’t want to be her “whipping boy” either.

What a night last night, I will post a long story here in a little while.

Let me just say right now that I think this deal with Frank may not be the reason she left but rather a biproduct of leaving. IE: he's there now to help her along being alone etc. Like she started dating because she's moving on with her life.
Things don't look good for me.

Please.....your honest thoughts on that.
JS

STOP!!! You are letting her "fog" impact your actions/emotions. It wasn't "looking good" as soon as the affair started. This won't be a "switch" that gets flipped, this battle will be won with patience, self improvement, and the invaluable knowledge of how affairs affect the mind of a WS. Trust me, she can and most likely will, at some point in the future see the carnage of her poor choices. You MUST be there for her as a STRONG man when that happens!!

MWIL

Thanks mwil, I will "hang" in there.
I will do it for my children who deserve to have there life back.
JS

“SAVE THE DRAMA FOR YOUR MOMMA”

WW was suppose to go with S5 to his orientation, she came to football practice to drop all of the kids off and when she pulled up I noticed she had been crying (looked like crap again). I said “what happened?”
Ww *holding hand in the air* Not now (sobbing and starting to tear up)
Js “ problem at work?”
Ww *shaking her head yes and crying more* “sort of”
Her best friend/coworker was a nut and she was messing up bad at work (coworker runs the office and dates the guy who runs it) Owner got a D and his xw got the company and they are checking on the books etc. xw (new owner) was sure that coworker and bf/boss were fudging the books (stealing).
New owner told coworker “you can train ww and new employee to do your job for 1 month and then leave and get unemployment or you can walk out now and we will fight unemployment.
Side note ww’s coworker is same age as ww and has 3 kids like ww and left her husband (he was a drunk and hit her).
Coworker said “I can’t take these accusations, I’m leaving”
WW very unhappy about this.
So now work is an even bigger source of stress to ww.

I go to S5’s orientation for ww because she is upset and when I get back I ask ww “what’ going on, is everything ok?”
Ww, “I just have so many things going on now. On the way here, s5 and d7 were in the back fighting and S12 yelled at D7 and I yelled at S12 to leave her alone and let me handle it. S12 got mad at me and then D7 and S5 were in the back “wailing on each other” and I just cant take this fighting and yelling anymore….something needs to be done.” Then at work, boss had a nervous breakdown Wednesday night and went to the hospital for 2 days and off Friday. WW asked him today (Monday) how he was doing and he said “I have a doctors appointment at 1:00 and I’m not sure if I’ll be back”.
WW “you mean back today? Or back never?
Boss “I don’t know, I have to see my lawyer”.

So ww tells me all of this and then says “all of this stuff is happening at work and the kids are out of control and I’m trying to get rid of the van……*starts to tear up and walks away towards the van*
Leaves me standing there wondering what I’m suppose to do now…..I’m sure she was hoping I would come to her rescue on the “van” thing. I just walked back over to the practice field and kept watching football practice.

Later, I talked to her a little bit of and on but mostly I just talked to other parents (ladies of course) and played with the little kids.
It was awkward because she was sitting by herself or with one of the kids and I was joking and laughing with the other parents….A coworker of mines wife walked by on the bike path and said “Hey Js how you doing (she’s hot) and the other dads were saying “wow man you go”.
I walked over to ww a couple of times but felt weird talking to her because when I do all I can see is FRANK.
(I hate that feeling) (mental picture)
She stayed to the end of practice hoping that S12 would go home with her…..S12 said he was coming home with me.
She told him that she would give him a ride to school or take him to his bus stop in the morning. He said it would be to busy around her house…her getting ready, him getting ready, her getting the little ones ready etc.

When we got home me and S12 were outside for a while and missed her phone calls….1st message: ww-“hi I just called so the kids could say goodnight to you…(kids in the background) “goodnight daddy, we love you”
Ww “ok call me back if you get this message…2nd message 10 minutes later….I just wanted to know if S12 had all of his school supplies ready, etc. etc. etc. and to see if you found S5’s backpack…call me back”.

Had S12 call her back and tell her that he was ready for school, neighbor lady (S12’s best friends mom) gave him some folders and notebooks. I told S12 to tell her that we found S5’s back pack too.
S12, “she wants to talk to you dad”
WW “Hi just making sure you got S5’s backpack
Js “yeah I finally found it and its on the counter….I am out of D7’s medicine do I need to call it in?”
WW “no I already called it in and its ready”
Js I’ll pick it up tomorrow then, is that all?.
WW “yeah I think so”
Js “what are you going to do about your work?
WW My mom is looking over my resume and “fine tuning” it and she will e-mail it to me tomorrow. If I can’t open it at work can I send it to you so you can figure out how to open it and make copies for me?”
Js “yeah I can do that.”
Ww “I’m not going to stay there (at current job) very long”
Js (like a dummy) (giving my advice) “you should send out your resumes but stay close to the new owner and if you stay to the end they will probably appreciate what you have done for them and make sure you get some severance pay or not fight your unemployment.
Also if you take another job you want to leave gracefully in case new job doesn’t work out or at least you know they will give you a good reference.
I’m sure she heard Blah, Blah, Blah.
I said does your mom and grandma and sister and friends all know your looking for a job?
WW “yeah I’m getting the word out”.
Js What do you want to do? Doctors office/ insurance office or just any kind of office?
WW yeah pretty much anything, doctors offices don’t pay that much.
Js “I heard the pet store was hiring for the back room and they pay $9.75 an hour. LOL
WW “wow that’s pretty good for that place.”
JS ok I got to go, I’ll get the word out and keep my eyes open if I see any jobs out there I’ll call Ya.”


Trying to be nice like mwil said but not needy or clingy and trying to show that I’m not really that concerned with all of her problems…..I can’t believe she has that much of a problem with the kids except that she has always done EVERYTHING for them and never really disciplined them very firmly.
They are acting out big time around her. They have tried it with me but I don’t give in. Maybe that’s why they like to go to mommies so much.
They love me though and I know they will grow up to love me even more.

It’s so hard not to try and rescue her or hold her or tell her ILU but what makes me mad is the fact that through all of this pain she has Frank to console her on her bad days. He gets to rescue her from her pain.

I called her this morning on my way to work on my cell phone and said “Is D7 there?” WW laughed “yeah here she is”
Told D7 that I was sorry I couldn’t come to her 1st day but I knew she would have a wonderful teacher and that I was so proud of her going into the 2nd grade. She said I love you daddy.
Talked to S5 and told him all about his classroom and told him he is going to be the smartest kid in the class because he can count to 100. I said “you have a real cool teacher and you get to ride the bus…He was really excited.
WW got on the phone and asked about S12, I told her I was on my way to work (she thought I was at home) and that he was probably already gone to the bus stop and he was all ready to go this morning and that I had a good talk with him last night and this morning and he was getting more and more excited about being in Jr.high.


She has to work till 5:00 tonight and I will pick the kids up from daycare and take S12 to football practice. She said she will come there to.
I’m sure she will want S12 to go with her tonight or maybe she will just take the little ones and leave.
How do I treat her if she stays for practice?
If S12 goes with her tonight she will probably stay the whole time. Should I leave?

Please keep guiding me in the right direction…I really don’t want to blow this.
I am starting to see so much fog in her but she has never said anything about Frank. Maybe she thinks I believe he is just a friend because I’m being so nice to her.
I have never said anything about him except, “are you in love with him?” She said I don’t know yet, it’s to soon. Is that enough?

If you guys are still reading this far let me just say again how much help you all have been to me. I don’t know how you guys do this but Thank you so much. I love you all.

P.S I ordered surviving an affair and it should be here today or tomorrow.
I’m almost done with “Love busters”

Jeff

You sound like you are doing great JS. I am in a similar situation only without children. I can't offer you much in advice, only that the book will help you understand what's going on better. Your thread is definitely helpful. I think it's natural to want to help your WW. I feel the same way most of the time. I try not to give advice, let them watch the house of cards come tumbling down.

As far as the fence sitting thing on whether she loves him or not. I've asked this question as well. I have come to realize that her response to that question changes nothing. Even if she responded with a "yes", would you change your tactics?

Good luck JS! It sounds like you are doing all the right things! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your responses sounded fine....except for the "You should....blah, blah, blah!" But the fact is, you learned from that!! You recognize that, that is NOT attractive to your W....and that's a great step toward growing my friend....moreso for YOU!!

Think about it....can you think of any other time when you needed to focus so hard on how to LISTEN????? And when speaking, speak with conviction and confidence???

Only one almost parallel and that is a job interview....or maybe meeting parents of a sig. other. But the point is, you see and can recongnize....keep practicing...it'll become second nature.

As for Frank the **ckhead goes.....don't EVER bring him up. If she does, don't address him by his first name....call him by his last name (and, NO, DON'T put "Mr." in front of it!!) He deserves NO respect from you...none!!

And stay at practice, if you have no other plans. Watch intently, let her see you "moving on....bit by bit" Every chance you get to "audition" for your WW...do it....just as if she was a brand new hot girl who you are interested in, but you think is not interested in you!!!! A little charm....but not too much....charasmatic...but don't over do it. And I don't mean so much to your WW, but moreso to all your interactions....and believe me....she'll be watching!!

Look good, smell good, and be happy!! Not TOO out of character....but "just a bit happier than normal"

GOT IT???.....I knew you would. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good Luck, God Bless!
MWIL

JS, I think you're getting there. Keep working at it.



Now there's the crib notes you need to carry in your front pocket. LOL.

Seriously though JS, I think it is this type of behavior that is going to get you noticed (by you-know-who). If you're happy and able to move on your W will notice. She'll have those little moments where she questions why she left someone who seems so happy and so together and looks so good.

I've been married for 17 years and I still find myself auditioning for this hot chick. I do it because I'm fearful she'll soon be tired of me and will stop noticing me. See a little insecurity can be helpful. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks MWIL and MyAlias,
I did print that out and will carry it with me and I bought some new cologne the other night.
Halston Z14 by Jeff Gordon.


MyAlias,I’ll see your LOL and raise you 2 LOL’s

Thank you for writing Akman8. I am waiting for the new book to arrive.
I will look for your thread and follow it. Were in this together so keep posting to me with your comments and maybe we can help each other be strong.


More ramblings from me.
I have always had to call ww for things regarding the kids but now I haven’t been calling and it seems she is calling me more and more.

5:00 last night WW called, (let it go to voice mail) I called her back and she said “can you watch the kids through practice for me, I need to go to the laundry mat and wash clothes and then I’ll meet you at your house to pick them up after practice.”
JS “sure, see you at 7:30”
7:25 last night WW called, “I’m done with laundry and I’m at your house”. WW “I feel so stupid, I forgot D7 had a parent teacher conference this evening and didn’t remember until I went by the school on the way to your house and seen all of the people leaving, omg I’ve got so much going through my head”.
JS “oh I’m sorry, I didn’t have that on my calendar so I didn’t even know about it.”
WW “that’s alright, I’m the one that forgot about it and now I feel so bad.”
JS “-------------“ *didn’t say anything*
WW “I’ll call her and reschedule it.”
JS “ok, if it’s during work hours and you can’t go, I’ll go. ~JS thinking~*I love going there and seeing all the hot single moms* ~LOL!

Got to my house and she was sitting in the van outside. We went in the house together and my answering machine light was flashing. She was standing right by it.
I stayed in the kitchen with her until she left and then played it back. (my brother)
She asked if I had a bulb in the garage for her brake light so I changed that for her.
She told me that her boss wont be in for a week now and she thinks the place is going to close and he is going to leave.
I kind of pushed things along while she was there, you know, hurry up kids, you got a lot to do tonight, dinner, showers, bedtime. I changed the tail light bulb real quick and then said by kids “I love you” “I will tell you goodnight right now so you don’t have to call me.”
This morning WW called the house and said “can you bring that bag of school supplies I left on the table, it seems I keep leaving things at the wrong house and S12 said he needed some of that stuff for school”.
WW- Do you want the kids tonight or do you have plans?
JS “yeah I can take them any time”.
WW well I know I’ve had them for 2 days now but I can keep them again if you don’t mind.”
JS “lets just wait and see what they want to do”, we will need to go on some kind of schedule here pretty soon so we both know when we will have them, maybe 2 days here and 2 days there but for right now I don’t want anything new in there lives to confuse them any more.”

She has to come to my house in the morning if the kids are with me and sit with them and get them ready for school after I go to work.
She also told me last
JS--2 way’d ww when I got on her street. “send S12 out to my car”.


Thoughts or comments welcome at Marriage Builders.com
See JSlost <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well I think you are too accomodating ... not that you shouldn't be. Still I think you need to find other things to do to keep yourself busy. You shouldn't be waiting around for her to call.

When your W calls you need to be out and about doing stuff. Ya know?

Maybe MWIL can speak of this some more. I just see some flags when I see you always sort of close by like you're at her beckon call. If she calls and leaves a message you usually call back fairly quickly. Unless it's an emergency she should be "inconvenienced" once in awhile by her separating herself from you.

Anyone want to validate or discredit this???? I'd love to hear others thoughts.