Mwil,

Good to here everything is going so well for you. You worked hard for this and it's paying off.
I'm glad your taking the time to work on your marriage. These boards can be an obsession and sometimes a real downer.
I'm doing really well for myself...as far as my M. Who knows?
I'll just try to follow the wonderful advice I get from these great people and hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
I've got some of your coaches here helping me now so you take the time to have FUN.

Just knowing your out there thriving has helped me to move along in this fight.

I'm nowhere ready to give up yet.

I do know this....If I ever get to the point you are at now, I will have to take some time off from here as well and then come back at a later time to see how my friends are doing.

Congratulations George.

Jeff

Just recieved an e-mail from mil.
Any ideas for a nice response.
I love my mil and she is a good person so I want to leave a good impression.

Heres the e-mail.


She makes it sound as if I'm all over the place on this. I really feel like I've "let go" so to speak, What has ww been telling her?

Need responses please.
Thanks for the help.
JS

JS,

Read her email again and tell us the parts where you think she's not telling something close to the truth.

You admitted you were controlling and we all know how obsessive the R becomes when couples split ... so my gut reaction is that she's stated some real truths here.

And if that's the case I suspect you should be admitting those truths back to her and tell her what the NEW Jeff is doing.

Let her know that you aren't merely waiting around for her. That you are upset she's spending time with another man (friend or no friend) but you aren't going to sit around and obsess about it. That you are working on you. You are trying to make some changes so that you can lead a happy and healthy life. Admit some of your previous shortcomings and let her know you realize it and are working to change it.

Heck if your W is in too much of a fog to see it it still doesn't hurt to let other see it. OK?

Take this opportunity to thank your MotherInLaw. DO NOT TRY TO CORRECT ANYTHING SHE'S STATED. Who cares what the past holds. It's the future that matter. Let her know you are looking to that.

I think she'll respect that and that could mean a lot right about now.

Just some thoughts.

Thats exactly the kind of response I was looking for MyAlias.
I just need help with writing the letter. My emotions mess up my better judgement sometimes so I will take my time.
Any ideas on how to word things?
I get what your saying, but putting it into words (for me) is a little difficult without babbleing on and on.

JS

I think MIL is a wash and wouldn't advise any further correspondence with her. If and when you reconcile with WW she will be just as accepting of that set of circumstances as she is of this one.

Based on her response...my judgement would be that MIL has no moral compass and shares your WWs "if it feels good it is good" approach. Problem is that it's selectively applied. For example...it doesn't feel good to YOU does it? Being lied to and betrayed and tricked?

Doesn't matter...you don't count.

Your job is to smile and make everyone comfortable in their trashy lifestyle and get out your checkbook when WW wants something but doesn't want to work for it or earn it.

What she is telling you is...put up and shut up.

Notice that she never once admits to exactly WHAT sorts of behaviors you might have objected to?

Like a sleazy affair[s?]

Like exposing the children to potential criminals?

Leaving them alone in the care of virtual strangers of questionable repute?

Why not? It isn't "nice". Or fun. Or pretty. It might even make her feel bad for a second before she dismisses it.

We certainly can't let the children know either. How uncomfortable.

Nope..you are not going to hear the magic words from MIL and she is not going to help you. She's gonna support the affair behavior...and I would put money on it that she expects to do it on your dime. While your wife is allowed to be selectively married..I think you will find that they still hold you completely responsible for meeting her needs.

Which is not the way divorce works.

Fog is contagious you know. Until you have been adequately vaccinated you really have to make an effort to avoid contact with infected persons because they can and will suck you in.

Just for the record...I do not and have never bought the premise that you are controlling or have been historically.

Thus far I have seen no evidence that this is anything other than a very effective play on your fears that is being used as a tool to control *you*.

Thanks noodle.

Jeff I feel more comfortable having you listen to noodle than to me. I'm more of a make-everyone-happy kind of guy and so sometimes I forget to hold boundaries or see the forest for the trees.

Noodle is probably dead on right in terms of describing your MIL. She puts on a friendly face but she's as low-valued morally as your W. I think I was hoping you could rally some troops for your cause but trying to do so with a MIL that may share the same skewed view of things as your W may turn extremely sour for you.

Noodle suggests you don't correspond and I certainly cannot argue that point.

I will not respond. I originally thought that it would be rude not to respond but after reading her e-mail again and seeing it from your eyes, I now see where it is lacking any respect for MY feelings.

I will remain quiet.....thank you very much for the help.

Now, I got 2 e-mails from ww.
Any thoughts?

I know you guys hate it when I do things for her but I go to football practice anyway and she always picks up the kids everynight now.
I just can't see telling her no on this but would like to here your thoughts on this anyway before I respond.

2nd e-mail
I do have to work on Saturday but may be able to get it off.
My question comes from this. She keeps asking to have the kids 3 days and me 2 days.
I have told her more than once that I want them an equal amount of time.
Last week I had them Saturday, Sunday, Monday and then she was suppose to have them tuesday and wednesday but she kept them Thursday too because they were off school on Friday and she wanted her niece to watch them. I had them Friday Saturday and Sunday and now her e-mail.

Thoughts on this?

Thank you.
JS

I would say as a general principle...to be always willing to do things for the children and never willing to do things for the WS.

So..with that as my admitted premise how would I approach the above Qs.

First of all..why is WW determining how often you keep your childrenw ith you?

You need to get these ducks in a row...legally if necessary.

Just one of those issues you can't let slide..get 'r' done.

50/50 at least.

So I would not allow her to make that decision.

I would respond with your OWN schedual and then be willing to take them any additional days that she needs free to do whatever. Then document the H*ll out of it. Take pics...video with dates...journals.

Never watch them WITH her or at her house...don't provide relief for her or be a pressure release valve...that would be something she may ask from her husband...but not from the man she rejects as such.

Doing things as you are is GIVING your wife precedent to seek full custody...you don't have to do it...so don't.

As for the game..meh...I'd go ahead especially if you will be there anyway.

As for reply to her shared custody arrangement

"WW...2/5 time with the children is not acceptable to me. I will accept equal time and am willing to offer any additional care they may need... will "your offer here" work for you or do we need to rearrange?"

It is very important that your RIGHT to equal time is not discussed...if it NEEDS to be discussed do so with an attorney and take ACTION. Until then ASSUME it and take action.

Do not explain yourself or allow a discussion to take place.

Make your position brief, polite, and not negotiable.

Noodle, You are a trusted friend and I thank you for the prompt response.
I agree and have been trying to do just that. I haven't been good about letting her (as you have said) feel the real brunt of her decision in the past but I have started to do just that lately.
She has not been controlling this aspect....She has tried to request things like this but I have told her that I want them just as much as she does so she doesn't argue abiut it.
I don't think this needs to be in writing yet unless things get nasty...She hasn't been argumentative or angry or mad about any of this. She has just requested these things a few times in the past.
My lawyer said that if we can do this on our own than continue doing the things she askes for and documenting it will be enough for him.
This was her idea in the beginning of our seperation and I've actually had them quite a bit more than her.
She had them last week and she did not bring Frank around them at all.
We'll see what this week brings.

She has no money for a lawyer and doubtfull she will try to fight for full custody. My lawyer has told me that if he was advising her that he wouldn't suggest she try for full custody becasue of the factors involved. (her leaving, me being in the house, school district etc.)
I'm sure when I tell her that she can have them 2 days and I will have them 2 days that she won't argue.
My neighbor want to have us all over for dinner wednesday night so that will be a perfect excuse for me to request wednesday thursday friday.

We'll see

Thanks for the help.
JS

My reply will look like this.

WW, I can take the kids to practice tonight.
I do have to work on Saturday but I will try to get it off....I should know by tomorrow.
I'll have S12's shoes and the kids backpacks ready. D8 has pictures on wednesday so I want you to have them on Monday and Tuesday night so you can do her hair up pretty.I'll fill out her picture paper work tonight and enclose a check for them.
I'll also write a check out for S12's lunches. Can you help me pay for his lunches....maybe me 1 week and you the next....let me know. I need to have them on Wednesday night because I already have dinner plans for them and then I can keep them Thursday night and Friday night and then you can have them Saturday, Sunday, Monday. That way we split up the weekend.

Thanks.

Thoughts before I send this?

JS

Sounds OK I guess. Certainly isn't going to change anything in your R one way or the other.

I can't think of a different response.

ww called to say that she could pick the kids up after all.
I said that was fine and that I would be by to see them for a few minutes.
I said "are you ok with me taking the kids Wednesday night"?
She said "yeah I guess thats ok", what dinner plans do you have?"
I said "were just grilling out some ribs from "Famous Daves"

I think she thought i made the whole thing up so I could get the kids more.
I didn't give her any more details....just said ok see ya at practice.

Sunday at S12's footbal game I talked with her a little bit and then focused on my friends and the game.
She still doesn't talk to old friend at all...just kind of sits by herself or with one of the kids. Me, I'm sitting with our friends and neighbors and laughing and having a good time.
Just trying to look good, happy and strong when I'm around her.
I'm starting to get that feeling that I don't need her to be happy. She always seems so mopey or down that i don't even like being around her much.
She's not looking that attractive to me either.....always down, depressed, mopey looking.
That helps a lot.

I had a great time with my kids this weekend and they had many things to tell mommy about while they were with there dad.

My neighbor knows the manager at Famous Daves and they gave him 2 giant racks of ribs and some cin.apples and some beens the other night.....stuff they had set aside for a function and he was in there eating diiner and the friend/manager came over and said "hey i got something for you" and gave him all this food.
Told him how to prepare it and he invited us all over Wednesday night for dinner.
His s12 and my s12 are good friends and his s7 loves to play with my s5 and d8 so it should be an awsome party.

JS is doing good right now....kids are happy, and I'm not feeling so down when there with ww.
Got a clean house, great kids who love me to death, and a fogged out ww....Oh well, two out of three aint bad.
LOL

JS

It is my sincerest hope that her mopeyness, her depression is her questioning her happiness and questioning her decision to split.

Jeff, I was excited to see you post a more positive upbeat post. This is the attitude that will see you through this. This is the attitude that will help you to move on. This is the attitude that will make you attractive to any available woman. Let's hope it's extremely attractive to your WW.

So now you're having to spend some time away from your kids huh? When you do get to see them again where do the exchanges usually take place? Are they in the presence of your W? And when you finally get to seem them again are your exchanges with the kids all warm and loving with lots of "I missed you guys" and plenty of hugs? I hope so. I think this is something that a WS would really start to miss. Seeing a family unit that isn't afraid to say loving things and have some phsyical contact to prove it. I know if I were wayward I would miss that and really long for a piece of it.

Good Morning Mya,
Who knows…..I’m sure she’s had second thoughts about all of this, but really, who knows?

I usually only post when I’m down but the fact of the matter is that when interacting with my ww, I’m always upbeat and happy like I don’t have a care in the world. Been this way for a while now.
Even the night when I called Frank a “loser” I didn’t act mad or sad, just confident.
I don’t know if any of this matters to ww but I am pretty much ok with “my life” right now.
Sure I want her back…….my w not the alien ww.
I’m always upbeat around the kids too.

My kids love me and miss me so being away from them isn’t very hard on me. They call me all the time anyway….especially S5. It makes me so happy when he calls me. If he don’t call, oh well, that’s just a 5 year olds mind.
The exchanges happen at my house. Here’s the setup.
When the kids are at my house overnight then ww comes at 6:30 a.m. so I can go to work and then she gets them ready and takes them to daycare.
She gets off at 4:00 and picks them up at daycare and goes to my house and either waits till I get home (5:00) so I can see them or takes them to S12’s practice and I go there and see them.
If the kids are staying with me then we all stay at practice (me and the kids) and then go home. If she is keeping them then I go to practice to see them and then she takes them home and I don’t stay at practice either. I stay for a little while then leave so she has to come back and pick up S12.

Yes…I see ww during exchanges.
When I got to practice last night I parked by ww’s van and they came running like mad jumped into my arms and gave hugs and kisses.
I’m so much closer to my kids now and that is a big change that I’ve made. We do a lot of fun stuff together and they love to be with daddy.
The best is when my youngest….(S5, he has always been close to mommy) calls me all the time and he is always the first to run up to me and give hugs and kisses.
Last night when he ran up, the first thing he said is “I want 10 kisses” he always has a different number of kisses he wants to give me.
I don’t call them when there with ww. S5 called me this morning on my cell phone right after I got to work and I talked to the other kids as well for a while.
WW called later this morning and said that I could have the kids Wednesday night for my cookout but that she wanted me to bring them back to her house after or she could come and get them. She sounded kind of irritated that I didn’t check with her first.
I was very pleasant and said “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to make plans on one of your nights it just came up kinda quick.
I explained that I just found out about the cookout Sunday night and I didn’t know what days she was planning on having them until her e-mail on Monday.
I said I didn’t make the plans to interfear with your time to have them and if you ever have something “come up” when I have them, I would be glad to bend for you too.
She said “oh, ok thanks”.

I think I’m doing quite well on things….if it makes a difference, then good…if not, oh well….her loss.
I don’t call her anymore and yes she is starting to call me. There are things we have to discuss about the kids etc. and that’s why I was calling her all of the time but if I don’t call then she will anyway.

I’m not worrying about if she will come back or not. This will be her loss in the end. NOT mine. Loss of respect from her kids, loss of her house, loss of her handsome husband in exchange for a dirtbag, loss of our mutual friends and neighbors.
When I’m at football practice all of my S12’s teammates come up and say hi to me and mess around.
I’m feeling great about what my future holds.

When ww called this morning I told her that I have a conference with s12’s teacher on Monday of next week and a conference with S5’s teacher on Wednesday of next week and that the kids were off school on Monday, as well as the following Monday.
She knew nothing about any of this……LOL
She was wondering when I set up these appointments.
I asked “do you want to go with me?”
She said “yes”
These are all things she used to take care of in the past and now I’m doing a big share of these things.
One of her en’s is family commitment I think.
I remember “mywifeilove’s” om getting angry because his ww was doing things with him and he (om) didn’t like it.
Maybe I should schedule more of these. LOL

I’m glad she is doing better around the kids…..maybe a little fog lifting or she’s just getting more comfortable with her situation.
Or maybe she thinks she better pick things up before we all pass her by.
She hasn’t had Frank around when the kids are there lately.
Making better choices? Who knows.

I’m taking the kids to the high school football game on Friday night and I told S12 that he and I were going to the N.I.U. Huskies home coming on October 21st to tail gate all day and see the game.
He went through the roof.
Anybody else want to go?
S12 told me last night that his English teacher is going to the game too. I had a choice on which teachers to have a conference with…..what a coincidence, I'm going to choose her.
Btw she doesn’t wear a ring and she’s hot. Should be a fun conference.
Wonder if she needs a ride? Hmmmmmmmmmm
<wheels are turning> in my head.

I guess I should be kind and invite her to our tailgate.
Thoughts?????

JS

JS,

Last I heard you were a married man so no. Not a little no, how about a big fat NOOOOOOOOO.

Have you learned nothing here.

Be very cautious of letting any other woman fill any of your emotional needs right now. You are VERY emotionally vulnerable.

It's YOUR integrity at stake.

Infidelity is wrong

That's the message you've been giving your children and family....walk the talk.

Further, why would you do that to that woman???? If she reciprocated what kind of woman would that make her???

Just don't even consider it...the "fantasy" thoughts are just the beginning steps to moving boundaries.

Mr. Wondering

Oooopps sorry.......Mr.Dubya.
I guess I should watch my scense of humor on these boards....The last thing on my mind is dating. My friends have all been telling me to go out and meet someone.
My reply has always been. I am not even close to being ready to find someone else right now.

Because of my ww?
NO.

Because I love the person I am becoming around my kids and I don't want anything getting in the way of that happiness.
I have a long life to live and right now it's going to be for me and my kids.....sorry girls....no room in hear for anybody else.
Beside...like you said Mr.W.
"practice what you preach"

That was just my feeble attempt at trying to be funny.

I'm on the "marriage builders plan" all the way my friend.
I promise.
I want my w back and I'm prepared to go the distance with this Frank (puke) guy.

I dont even feel like I should be seeing any changes for a while now.
I'm ready to plan A as much as I can and take this time for ME!!!!

Glad to see your still watching.

Thank You
JS

JS,

I'm hearing some really good things come out on your posts. Keep it up. That's what we need to hear. We need to know you've got that RIGHT state of mind.

PS: I notice you've got a bit of facetious sense of humor. It's good to have a sense of humor during all of this. My humor is much like yours, although I throw sarcasm in there quite often because, at times, I like to be a little dry, ya know.

When you make these facetious comments make sure to throw in a "just kidding of course" so everyone knows where your mind is really at. Not everyone gets that type of humor and/or they're going to want to check in with you to make sure you are just kidding. So save everyone some time and give a direct hint that you're just messing around.

Good on ya, mate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Keep it up.

Its a slow process Mya, I'm just taking it slow right now.
I do feel like a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.
Reading here helps because the more you read here the more you start to realize that ww's are aliens. 2 different people really.
Someone asked me the other day how I get through this knowing that she is sleeping with someone else.
Well, She wasn't a virgin when I met her but I never paid any attention to her past. Now in her mind we are divorced so she can do anything she wants to and so can I.
She wants to fool around.....I want to date her.
May sound dumb but it works for me.
I just decided that our old marriage wasn't good enough for me either and I want a new one.....with her of course.
Start looking to the future.....I know the tunnel looks long and I can't quite see the light at the end yet but each day, each week, each month, I get closer and closer to the that light and I know its there.

I remember Dr. Harley's analogy about rocks in the river.
You know that one don't you?


Yeah sarcasm hasn't been one of my better points when it comes to my humor.....but I do joke about everything.
Got that from my dad. I don't think I've ever had a straight answer from that man in my 45 years. LOL

Got Mr Dubya off of his computer chair....LOL

Sorry everyone......Just making sure your all still here with me....LOL

JS

JS,

I want to tell you.....I have never been more hopeful about your situation than I am today. "Hopeful" doesn't mean I can guarantee your marriage will survive....but I have these elated feeling that IF it survives....you are in the right state of mind to accomplish that. And IF it doesn't....you're still in the right state of mind.

I'm really proud of you chere....and you hang tight my friend....you're doing just fine! Confidence is one of the most irrestistible substances in the Universe!! Know who you are....be ethical, and directed....I like it!! You rock baby!

((((((((((((((((((((JS)))))))))))))))))))))

You know Star*Fish......I knew this all along but I just couldn't quite get myself there (without lying to myself) but now I feel it more and more each day.
I always trusted your help but I couldn't get my mind "in gear".

A good friend of WW's told me a while back....."remember when ww was planning on leaving you and you kept begging her to stay and then you finally told her that she had a choice to go to counseling with you or find an appartment after the first of the year?"
JS "yes"
Friend "what did she do when you told her she could leave?"
JS "she decided to stay"
Friend "let her go Jeff and move on.....if you want to keep the door open thats fine but don't stand there by the door waiting for her to come back inside".

That was about a month ago and I still couldn't do it.
But reading here has made me realize that I like.....no I love myself enough to do things for me and that is the kind of person that will look attractive.
I don't envy ww anymore because she has someone around to fill the void when the kids aren't there with her.
She never has once looked very happy about anything since this started.

Thank you for the confidence that you have given me....you have been there from the start of my situation and you still give me your time.
I appreciate that my friend.

By the way....I love your signiture line. It was one of the first things I printed out to keep in my "keeper file" back when I started posting here on MB way back when.


Thanks all
Jeff