Rin,

I don't want you to refute it...as you did...with

"I said it "I'm NOT in a bad mood!"

Seems to me that tells self that their opinion is worth refuting...must be negated...makes those opinions powerful, and they aren't.

Give a hoot--don't refute.

LOL

Call defining others abusive, call others on it, and DON'T do it yourself...ask for rephrasing...I think a lot of communication is getting messed up due to this, and your WH isn't giving you his real truth, only pieces and parts...which you've feasted on before with DJs and no longer do that...the less you refute, more you acknowledge, ask for clarification, the more the communication can become clearer...nothing to refute.

'K?

This is what I'm learning on my FOO thread...all over again...maybe I have to learn it a few times, eh? Process, not perfection.

LA

Okay...Thanks LA, I understand that better now...LOL...well, that's something to remember...catchy! LOL

Oh, to answer the question about where HN's H was, he left to go offshore early that morning...this is a repeating pattern...Old repeating pattern...Her H goes offshore, she calls him to do whatever...In the past we wouldn't hear from her much when her His home...fishy? I don't know!

Boundries, Boundries, Boundries.

No more repeating patterns. What is your incremental enforcement of that boundry.

He is your H not hers. Clear as day. When her h is home does he come mow your lawn etc.

Fine you want to go help her do it on bike night. Do it when you planned to go to the rally etc.

You guys have enough to deal with that this shouldn't even be an issue.

So next time she calls and asks him for something just say you can do it on the same night as bike night. Make him sacrafice to do for her and I think it will change. If he says she needs help right now say fine then I won't support both.

IMVHO the relationship itself is wrong. I do not want my FWW to be that buddy buddy with a member of the opposite sex. Especially after the A. It is clear in my mind her boundries regarding appropriate behaviour are a little skewed. I would fight to make sure those boundries are not tested again.

Hey, HL

Sorry I missed you post. You nailed it! What more can I say?

This is just the way I see...I'm tired of letting people walk on me and I'm starting to stand up for myself...mainly using my voice...

It didn't bother me that he chose to get out of the car...not in the least...which surprised me...I'm getting rid of that enmeshment...Of course, I would like to know what he thinks about it but I'm sure not going to ask...

No need to discuss...which I'm going to substitute refute from now on...That will help me....No need to refuge the what happened...I'm sure he's perception is different from mine...If I refute it with him then I will doubt that I did the right thing...believe what he believes...nope...I'm not going to set that trap again...

That's what happen with the last refuting session about HN that knocked me for a loop.

As far as what to do about HN "STILL" in my life b/c of WH...well, all I can do it point out what I see...again and again...if that's what it takes...

I know she's trouble for us...WH has to figure that out for himself...

Well again I ask you what is his impetus for change?

You getting upset or angry or not caring? What if it was you not supporting both his bike stuff and him helping her.

Just say. We need time together. In order for that to happen you have to chose. Bike night or helping her.

I know it will suck for a while but the point needs to be made.

Just be prepared for the "you aren't my parent or you are controlling" Oh I have the answer to that as well. No I am not your parent nor am I controlling. What I am is an equal, nothing more nothing less. When you do things that make this M unequal I can and will chose not to support everything you want to do. If you wanting something or wanting to do something requires something of me I have a choice not to support that decesion.

You going to help her requires that things around here don't get done. It requires time we could be spending together. I don't support that decesion because it requires me to accept less.

It's not everyday like it was months ago. She's mad at me and doesn't want to get him in trouble. She words out of WH's mouth.

I understand your point but I don't feel it fits the situation. This was the first time she asked for anything in months (because of me). It's just a shame that it was during an important event. But trust me, should something come up in the future, I WILL keep that option in mind.

He got rid of OW because "she was a problem." But it doesn't matter...his chose...his decision...soon enough!

BTW, everyone, I feel REALLY empowered by my decisions last night! Thinking about it now, he was trying to turn things around to me and I didn't let it happen...I went and did what I need to...TBH...it was scary to go to a nice restuarant and eat a meal by myself...

Rin,

Then good for you. Your boundries have actually been honored for the most part.

Last night he crossed them and there were consequences.

I bet he will think twice next time she asks him for something.

I love when one S makes a threat and then you let them follow through. Like him leaving the car. LOL.

My FWW used them all of the time now not so much. Basically anything she threatens now I dare her to do it.

Takes away the power of the threat. You can threaten all you want just make sure you are willing to follow through because I am not going to stop you. I will not change my opinion or my boundries based on threats.

I would say be proactive don't wait for it to come up again. Just tell him how you feel and let him know that missing his stuff is just an incremntal enforcement of your boundries.

Glad things are going as well as can be expected.

"I love when one S makes a threat and then you let them follow through. Like him leaving the car. LOL.
...Takes away the power of the threat. You can threaten all you want just make sure you are willing to follow through because I am not going to stop you. I will not change my opinion or my boundries based on threats."

HUm, I didn't think as it as a threat but I guess it was...he might just think twice...before he does that again.
Do you think it was?

I was thinking really along the lines when you said that I didn't have to deal with that that I could put myself in a safe position/area...when you said go to the movies...blah, blah, blah...he just gave me an easy way out...

I do think that was a little message saying...I'm not putting up with your [email]sh@t[/email] anymore...or at least I hope...

I mean first I told him I was scaried of him anymore, then I left for the night (Caved in) and went home early, then last night.

I'm respecting myself more, I just hope that I'm earning his...I hope that's the message that I'm sending...

It was an implied threat. Do something or don't do something or ......

It wasn't a little message. It was a dang billboard. I wish I would have done something like that early on. Pat yourself on the back for that one.

It sounds a lot like projection to me though. Your H is projecting his feelings on to you. Or he knows you have a right to be upset but is telling you not to be.

In other words he acted in a way that could have negative consequences in the way you may treat him He assumes that is what you are doing.

The subway thing was funny too. I do the same thing tell wife to pick something she says you pick. So I pick a few places she doesn't like. LOL.

I think you are earning his respect. He will sooner or later make the change.

Well, I called WH about some chicken quarters I just bought. They stink...I said I don't think they should smell like that. We agreed to throw them out.

Anyway...I said I'll see you afterwhile...he said something like I guess I'll come home...then, said he was scare to come home...I said scared...you should be scared to rid in a car with me...blah blah blah...I made the mistake of bring up that conversation...joking with him...he said that my actions were telling him that I was in a bad mood just like HN was trying to tell me what I was thinking...I told him I let you out because you kept telling me my mood...I said Oh, well, that was yesterday, today's a new day!

I will ask him later if he was joking about being scared to come home or if that was an honest statement and what did he mean by it...I'm glad I didn't say what I was thinking "You don't have to come home..." That would have been a very bad move on my part.

I have to practice LA's statement before WH gets home...I'm sure I will be needing it soon...I need to become more fluent in the way I speak up for myself without DJing.

SO, how do I get him to stop reading my body language...I don't think that taking my jewerly off or closing a door can be taken as me being in a bad mood.

How much body language can I read to determine HIS mood and get away with it?

I thought I can't DJ on any body language...because I could be "reading" something that not there right?

I mean I'm a little confused about this because good communication skills tell you to use body language but there I thought that we can't go by that because we can interpret it wrong.

So, what's up with that?

Ladies and Gentlemen...

I'm hostile this morning and have put a call into the Dr. My mood are swings from left to right. I've tracked it for the past five days. 2-angry, 1-sad, 1-happy, and today hostile! Last night, I was watching One Tree Hill and I wanted to cry. I'm really not the type to tear up easy. So, granted I've been sleeping better (waking up not so often and going back to sleep faster), aside from the nightmares, but this mood swing thing...forget this...at least my moods were on an even keel on the other one...I may not have been sleeping but I could trust myself.

Talk about old patterns coming back...yelling, screaming, mad at the world...No, I can't do this...

So, hopefully, I can get that resolved ASAP...this morning with the kids was terrible...poor things...it wasn't until I was walking out of the house before I said to myself...I'm hostile, I can't do this!...

WH called and asked for OS to make him a sandwich...that's what set me off...So, when I dropped off the sandwich, I told I'm calling this morning...something's not right!

Oh, WH finihsed his book last night and was saying I could read it now. I smiled...he said what...I said I was thinking I read your, you read one of mind and laughed...he said if that's the case he would just pick out the riding tips...I laughed and said what no POJA?...No Policy of Joint Agreement...So I picked on his a little bit.

Oh, on the statement of him saying that he was scared to come home...I asked so, were you joking about being scared to come home...WH said I'm home aren't I...

I've notice that when asked a simple yes or no question...he can't answer yes or no...this is aside from the question on being scared...What's up with that? Why can't I get a straight answer?

Okay, I'll be around...I'm not sure how I'm feeling right now, and could use a little chit chat...perhap some help getting out of this funk...Today's Thurs...WOW! I have to bring OS fro a wellness checkup today @ 4, so I'll be leaving early tonight...and it's bike night! Great!

Morning, Spikey Rin,

You're there for me...I'm here for you. Why can't your WH be scared to come home...and it be about him, not you?

Sounds like he took another step of RH...sharing something...not saying it's about you...might be scared he'll say something drastic again (like let me out of the car) and you will follow through. That fear is in him, about him...making it into a joke, or probing isn't acknowledging. His fear.

Your moods...I've awoken feel hostile before...usually came from the dream I was having before the alarm went off...and after I remembered the dream, the hostility went away...especially when it was about DH and him doing old stuff again. I've actually said to him "You really ticked me off in my dream. Don't do that anymore."

And then I laughed because the emotion was absurd...he wasn't doing old stuff now...keyed me up to look more at real life, though, temporarily, to satisfy myself. My fear is mine, too.

If you're sleeping better, you might be dreaming more...what do you think?

I had that expectation of my DH answering yes or no to simple questions...and I let it go. DH said I wouldn't understand the struggle he had inside himself saying anything at all...because his fear of mis-stating or being bashed for what he said was so great.

Your DH is beginning to share...can you look past the way the freight is delivered to know it's being delivered? I had to do this...was in me...still is...pops up again and again...do I care more about the freight, or when and how it is delivered?

I swear, I used to hit that freight with "rejected: return to sender" and then PINE for not getting it.

And be furious, too.

You are on a different rung...different view, same pole...which one is this? Which pole is this? Old patterns you said...not just for you reacting instead of acting...which triggers?

Have you told DH that temporarily, for now, that you resent Bike Night? Could it be every other Thursday?

You know what I see in your posts? I see a big flirt. I see a flirting DW to her H...I do. I think it's amazingly cool how you flirt with your H. Endearing...part of your charm...and I get that only because you're THIS honest in your posts.

Thank you.

LA

So you're full of vim and viger today!? Find some physical work to do. You might be tempted to sit and brood but get outside for a while if you can. Work out your hostility on some weeds or a brisk walk.

My FWH is famous for not answering a question directly. It drives me nuts too. But if you think about it...he is there and he is talking. Prior to A my FWH had a very difficult time expressing his feelings he could talk about everyday stuff just not his feelings, even when things were really good w/ us.

You've read the tour books and studied the map, you know the path to get to your destination. I think men are wired differently genetically. They know where they want to go, but they are always looking for a short-cut or scenic route to get there, often ending up on a deadend road....and STILL won't ask for directions! Go figure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />?

So my conclusion is men in general resist talking about their feeling and asking for direction. No wonder they don't want MC it gives directions about their feelings!

I think its a good idea to talk to your Dr. about the meds.

edited for personal reasons.

Good Morning LA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yeap, I'm in a better mood now...the phone ringing triggered me, I knew it was him before I answered it...then I only got more pissed off when he asked OS to make him sandwiches...we had 15 minutes to leave the house so we wouldn't be late...I've been having some REALLY HORRIBLE mornings...I don't like it. I don't feel safe or trust myself. I may not have been sleeping on the other med but I was having some great morning and days. Now, everything seems to be an intrusion, I have that "JUST leave me alone thing going on...don't talk to me, don't look at me...DON'T touch me." I have NO patience and can't tolerate anything. It's with everyone...not just kids and WH...

Oh, and the nightmares right after I go to sleep..body parts...WH, one night with secret organization he joined for sexual favors...two mistress and holding me hostage after I would agree to do what he wanted...my psycho uncle trying to kiss me (he's mentally ill and not doing good)...my grandma (the one who took care of me) with her hands around OS's throat...every night for the first 30 to 45 minutes...terror! It's a side effect of the drug...wonderful huh? LOL I would rather not sleep then deal with that. LOL Blood and body parts, yuck! LOL

I've got some fear going on here...

WH, I think has been really good, so has the kids, bless their hearts.

"Why can't your WH be scared to come home...and it be about him, not you?"

I was happy just to get the info...I was hoping for a little clarification but OH, well. I can handle the crumbs...Hansel and Gretel (sp)? Acknowledge, okay...hummmmm...So, I could have said something like: It's okay to be scared? And have left it at that!

Okay...that's a big one for me...sometimes things don't need to be probed, just acknowledged...that seems like a hard task...how can I do that and be respectful at the same time? I can't say that I can relate...good to know?...that doesn't seem appropriate...

"can you look past the way the freight is delivered to know it's being delivered?"

I can do that...LOL...as soon as I figure out how to response...LMAO!
:::screaming in my head "IT'S ALL SO NEW!:::

"You are on a different rung...different view, same pole...which one is this? Which pole is this? Old patterns you said...not just for you reacting instead of acting...which triggers?"

Suspend bike night? Why? I can honestly say this after having given it some thought...Over time WH says:...OW said we were being childish...OW has nothing to offer me...WH says I'm getting rid of a problem...

During A and up until the purchase of Harley, he didn't have the freedom to go out with the boys...we were always together...not that I would let him...A happened when he was working nights...while I was at work, in the morning he would go see her...He's not working nights anymore...his job has changed location, making it a little inconvenient for him to go to the store that he met her at...he's leaving for work later (oversleeping sometimes) and sometimes he has to pick up co-worker...

When he comes home...he rattles on and on about the interaction with the guys...people in the H.O.G. chapter he just joined...so, needless to say, I feel pretty good about his whereabouts...and he said that I can call him on his cell...

Also, we talked last night and before he leaves tonight, I asked that he fix the boy's light in their room...it's been flicking and I told him I'm very concerned that it could be a fire hazard. He said that I had to remind him on things like that becasue he has so much to remember at work that he sometimes forgets to do things at home...He said that he's even taken to writing everything that happens at work down in a little book...that he use to think he could remember everything but his mind it's what it use to be...

I picked with him on that...so I'm starting to feel more secure putting his statements together...and I'm remembering the sincerity in his voice...I'm thankful I can tell when he's really being honest when he speaks in that tone of voice...it's with concern and heart-felt...it's my gut feeling when he talks like that...like telling me to remind him of things...I feel it...

I'm still guard, don't get me wrong...and please let me know what you think...I'm sure I don't have rose colored glasses on this time...before I felt something wasn't right but couldn't pin point what...so far so good...we'll see what happens...I know he is where he wants to be...WH has said that he doesn't want to lose everyting he's worked hard for and he said to me "I know that I have to do it but it's hard.(He was referring to ending contact with OW.)

I think I've been handed more puzzle pieces then I was seeing...putting them together here, right now...I think I'm starting to see a picture...

Flirt with WH, oh yeahhh!

Oh, ChaCha, I will post to you later!

ChaCha- Thank you for that heart felt story...I really appreciate you sharing that with me...

Well, as we know...being aware is half the battle...so once I figured it out and figured out I was hostile for no reason, I was able to change the mood. So, I'm cool now!


Oh, I wanted to ask, has anyone read 30 Days to Taming Your Tongue? It's really is cool...I may share some of it on a new thread...

Thank you for your post, ChaCha...more stuff for me to think about...like my head isn't already full!

LOL

What? Do I sound like Rin, my twin?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey, Twinner...listen and repeat is listen, "I feel scared about coming home" and repeat is, "I hear you feel scared about coming home." That's it. That's how it's done. No permission for his fear, judgment or taking it to be about you...have you read the abused husband thread? All of them feared...and I bet a lot of men experience it...I know my DH, did...no matter how I act, my DH fears...fears being judged, failing, harming...whether he actually is being or doing, or not.

"SO, how do I get him to stop reading my body language..."

Okay, my Twin Conspirator in Royal Control Freakiness...you know the answer to that...fork it over...

And how do you stop? You note the body language and ask? "I see your foot bouncing when I speak. Does that mean you're irritated with me or don't like what I'm saying?"

I asked this of my DH last year...found out, it means he's nervous and the bouncing relaxes him. Then I asked, "Is it working?" and we laughed. I was being very Rin before I knew Rin.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I don't know how you got from my suggestion to ask for the HOG night to not be weekly but biweekly to OW stuff...I'm confused. I thought you were (my impression) saying how he goes every week as his time (and you were going to look for Tuesday night your time stuff to do) and keeps incorporating others into your UA time...I was on that track.

Would Alanon on Tuesday nights be as fun as HOG night?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

P.S. As to the dreams....EEEWWWWWWWWEEEEEEE...wish I could teach you lucid dreaming techniques...

RMFAO.."SO, how do I get him to stop reading my body language..."...I can't believe I wrote that!

:::ducking as LA swings the 2X4, and while Rin throws a bucket of confetti on LA:::

No, I haven't read that thread, I'll go in search of it. I'm sure I'll learn a thing or two...I'm not even going to comment on the listen and repeat except for...duh da duh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Oh, I thought this was a result from "ending" recent C and NC letter stuff. Now, that makes sense...once again....DUH DA DUH... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Quick someone pick my head up and put it back on my head please!

lucid dreaming techniques.....Ooooowww, what is that? How could I not ask that question with my passion for knowledge?

ALanon...is that AA related?....uh..don't think so...LOL


For as large of a town as this is I can't believe there are so few groups...actually I may not be looking in the right places...I'm not a bowling fan, I don't golf, perhaps a little longer in my own mind and I'll consider drinking to become an AA member <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I don't sew, well, I suc* at it! Honest!

Only regret in life...my parents wouldn't let me take shop and I WAS NOT taking home ec!

Okay....moving along...;) LMAO

I don't feel like explain everything so, there's the short version...

WH ended up at "the store." On his way, we were on our cell phones, he asked what you're not happy with me going to the store. I said I hadn't been happy with you going to that store for a year.

Well, I stopped by there, he was sitting in the back with the manager and her co-worker talking...I walked back there and handed him his money...I said why should you have any disreguard for my feelings now, you haven't thus far?

He said "Calm down you have nothing to worry about!" I was calm...my tone even...I said something about being safe and not known that he was having C all that time I thought he wasn't and he wanted me to feel safe and secure with him coming to THIS store. WH said something about me being this up everyday, everyday... Of course, I refuted and said not everyday. He was sitting back there looking like a pimp, in the manager's chair.

Oh, I remember now, I said not I have to wait six weeks, everything started all over again. I said something like I don't know jack sh*t, and of course I think the worse. I said that why I need to know. He asked why six weeks...I said because you just had C with her the other day. He kind of huffed and said not to worry. I said the kids were sleeping in the car.

In essence we POJAed about the kids. He came home to watch them so I could go get my new med, and grocery store. Well, I get back in the car and OS is awake and asked to go with his D. I said go ask. OS stayed and Me and YS came home. I wasn'r expecting him for awhile, but not even five minutes and he was here.

I have some strong ill feelings toward him...like when the pain was so was fresh...I [email]h@te[/email] him right now. I so want to share that with him right now...now I don't like him...I want to hurt him right now...I want to crush him with my words... He was home until about 30 minutes ago, when I asked him if he was going to go ride...He said he thought about it but didn't want to upset me. I said go that I was going to take my med and go to bed.

I don't think it would have been very healthy for him to be around me...I want to TM him so bad with something like BTW, my LB is so NEgative I don't think there is a light! Or I have so much ill will forward you right now. OR just plain...I [email]h@te[/email] you!

Oh, Rin!!

(((((((hugs)))))))

I'm sorry. Sometimes they really don't make much sense, do they? Little pieces of alien still floating around in his blood stream, maybe?

It sounds like such a frustrating night for you. I'm glad that you told him how you felt, about not being safe and secure. Good job. How were the other people reacting?

Does OW work at that store? I hadn't picked up on that, so was just wondering about the trigger there. Was she there? Are the people there friends of hers?

Maybe when you have a chance to calm down, you can put into words exactly why you don't feel safe when he goes to that store. Tell him how you really feel about it, how it twists you up so much inside and feel such horrible feelings and anger. I think it's important to tell him all that. O&H. Just do it when you can be calm and aren't full of rage.

I'm sending you lots of hugs and thoughts. I hope you're able to get some sleep tonight.

-AmI.