It's just the store, period! That's where he met her; she's a busdriver so they would see each other in the morning b/t 5am and 6am. OP walked out of the office, they didn't hear a thing. I exposed to the manager, P, the last time I found out about C.

Thank you for all the hugs and thoughts...it would be so GREAT to have that at home. I'm doing a great job of self-control and not TMing him or calling him...dealing with the pain and hurt...different rung, different view, same pain and hurt that I felt weeks after D-day. I wanted him to feel my pain...I wanted to hurt him back with horrid words. I know it's a different rung because I won't allow myself to do it...knowing it won't help.

:::SOBBING::: I said I need a good one.

The bad thing is I know how good of a heart he has. I know he doesn't want to hurt me nevertheless he keeps doing the things that hurt me the most...

Having C last week, whether he want to admit it or not I know it's Withdrawal...

I feel like I've failed him...I feel like I should have been the one that he could come to and talk about our problem...I feel like he choose everyone...anyone else but me...why can't I make it safe for him to talk to me...major problem before A...I lost my bestfriend one day and I look at him I think "I have NO clue who this person is." What's his favortie meal? Where does he like to be touched? Why wasn't I enough, I've never felt that I was his queen?

I've also wanted to be on that pedestal...he talks so highly of me to his friends saying "He couldn't have gotten anyone better." How did I push him away...to the point where he turned and decided one day to go from an EA to a PA. I'm not saying it's my fault he had the A. I'm smarter then that.

It's the failure that hurts the worst...why did he stop talking to me, sharing all his thoughts and what happen to that man...it started well before the A...at least in my mind...what did I do?

I'm stillcrying but I'm calming down...I don't [email]H@te[/email] him...I love him more than anything...we've been through so much...me being disowned by my mom and SF because he's black...I knew what I was up against...I knew him and my kids wouldn't be allowed in their house...He's helped me get over all the sexual abuse I suffered...the rape...he's always been there for me and I don't have that...at least I don't feel like I do...

Perhaps it's my fantasy and not living in reality...but I see people holding hands and kissing in public aand I want that...I want to get little gifts just because I'm me...a symbol of his love just because...I want to be acknowledged on Mother's D-day, my B-day, Christmas...just as I acknowledge him...

I want to be thought of just as much as I think of him...

I sure as ****** want to know that there will be no more A's for him or I in the future. I just wonder if I'm asking to much...because I know it's out there...I kow I'm deserving of love...I've fought to hard to be loved (Oh, LA, I can't wait to hear what you have to say...on that note.).

Want to be loved as much as I love him I don't think is unreasonable.

Okay, I'm really calm and very sad...I'm tired but hopefully as time passes and October rolls around things will be better...I dream of a wonderful B-day...

I take so much care and time to make sure that he feels special on those days, that when it gets to be my turn...I'm lucky if I get a card.

I'm not a romanance novel person...but I do have an idea of what I would like things to be...TO much TV? LOL

Yeah, I'm trying to crack jokes so I guess I'm over the worst...tahnks for letting me get it out.

Main thing I see...my heart's broken...that's why I'm so angry...you let people in only to get crushed...

:::SINGING WITH A BLUEBIRD ON HER SHOULDER:::Good Morning Everyone!

I'm proud to announce I'm normal today! I sleep great! (Only woke up once) Even got up late this morning and didn't have an attitude! I survived and am smiling today!

Did want anyone to worry about by last two posts and AmI, thank you sooooooo much! Your simple little post helped me work out all of those feelings. I woke up with WH got home and was somewhat talkative.

I did find out he's not intentional using others to distract from QT for us. Good to know! And there was something else he said that was good but I can't remember it right now!

You know what, I don't know, kept me going last night...the song my Brookes and Dunn, "I Believe." I am in love with that song and it played in my head from yesterday afternoon, before leaveing work to somewhere in the middle on the night. I can hear it right now, but it's not as loud as it was.

Anyway, just wanted to check in. I have a few things that need to be taken care of...like my cup of coffee...get in my bellie...LOL Off of Austin Power's...YS (4) runs aroung the house saying this...it's to cute...LOL

Wow, I was reading the abused H thread, that is so sad. I was wondering if there was something I little more relevant to the way men feel and think...that thread really blow my mind...that's terrible...the things that these women had done...

I think I need a break from WH and the kids...I need something to stop me from thinking about my M everyday...due to rain, open house, and errands I haven't been able to get back to my project...

Anybody got any positive news? I sure could use some...

Hey, Rin.

I'm glad you woke up feeling better this morning. What a huge difference some good sleep makes. And good job of being able to talk to your H when he got home. It sounds like that helped, too.

When do you talk to your doc about your meds? You still seem to have pretty dramatic swings in how you're feeling, from very high to very low. Not trying to bash, or even assume, if I'm not right. Just an observation, I'm worried about ya!

-AmI.

I started the new med last night. I'm feeling pretty confident about it today. I slept really well...even thought I got up once...no nightmares...MOF, I took it before I began the sobbing post...It's cymbalta...I've seen the commercials for it...

Oh, and I vaguily remember WH pulling me close to him last night...that was nice...i liked that...Sf is few and far between...I worry about that...I'm sure he would like it more but he's not pushing and not starting it either.

I know he would like it more because he's said in the past that he's never to tired for SF. A little honesty...I use to not sleep with clothes on and I do now...that may be a part of the sleeping problem to because I get really hot even covering with just a sheet.

Anyway, today I don't feel out of it or like the something is majorily wrong in the/my world...I'm sure it will take a week or so to get on an even keel. But I'm hopeful and I'm just trying to keep myself in check...best I can do with what I have right now.

I do what to tell WH that I was like to get away from him and the kids...I have some friends about two hours away that I can sleep all day if I want to and that wouldn't make WH feel uncomfortable if I stayed with them. What I'm trying to say is WH would know I would get into any trouble with them, of course, I'm not looking to get in any.

I just feel I need a day or two to clear my head...I'm sure I don't want a D...but I'm exhausted with the sitch right now...I've worked on self and I'm tired on that too...

I guess the main thing that comes into my mind is I feel like I've failed him...that thought has been rolling around in my head for some time but I was scare to admit it. I need to speak my peace to WH I guess, or just get over it.

For some reason, I feel it's important that he knows that...I'm not sure why...but it's a strong feeling...

Rin,

I have some really good news.

The NY Yankees are 5.5 games ahead of the hated Boston Red Sox. Even better the Red Sox might not even make it to the play offs.

LETS GO YANKEES!!!!!!

My FWW got a job already. Thanks in part to me.

YS starts soccer and baseball this week. Baseball practice Weds night. Soccer practice Thursday night. Soccer game on saturdays and baseball on sundays. School starts on Monday and I am going to buy myself a mask and a snorkel. Just in case it gets hard to keep my head above water until thanksgiving. Thats when they end. Oh and OS start acting class soon on Tuesday nights.

Monday AA. Tueday acting. Weds Soccer and MC. Thurs Baseball and AA. Friday crash and burn. Sat Soccer game. Sunday Baseball game. I have scheduled a nervous breakdown each week on friday morning from 6am to 6:01. LOL.

Ok now for you.

Take a step back. You need to plan A until there is NC then you need to wait for him to get through withdrawl.

You know you need a plan and part of that is enforcing your boundries.

I would honestly start pulling back on your trust for him right now. You should only give the trust someone has earned from you.

Look if he contacts her what are the consequences? How do you incrementally enforce your boundry that EFFECTS HIM.

I will tell you right now that if my FWW had contact I would not be ok with her going out to do things without me. I certainly wouldn't be to happy with any of the bike related stuff right now. I am not saying babysit him or punish him. Just say until there is NC and you have gone through withdrawl bike night does not make me feel safe.

I really don't know what to tell you anymore. Are you going to MC or IC?

Hi Rin -

Glad to hear you're feeling a little better today. I've been following your ups and downs, though I haven't been posting much.

Can you give me a link to the abused husband thread? I can't find it...and am curious to read it.

Hang in there and remember to breathe....when things are down, it seems to go on forever, but if you look back over the past few months I think you'll see a lot of positive changes in you, and that there have been many good days as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Are you going to MC or IC?"

Nope, I'm winging it...terrible I know...I was until the day that I started hitting him and came to my senses hours later...but before I did I cancelled all future appointments...My C has been you guys...you are the ones that keep me sane...

"My FWW got a job already. Thanks in part to me."

Absolutely wonderful! And on the schedule things....OOOOHHHHhhh, I so feel for you...last school year I only had M-W and it was terrible for me. Of course, no help from WH until the very end. This year we're only doing religion on Tues! OS decided not to go back to TaKnowdo (sp).

So, am I going to get fussed for the IC thing...With a few extra bills that popped up, some out of nowhere, medical, there's no room in the budget.

I'm also gun shy of C to be honest...started seeing them when I was 9 or 10, I can't remember. I didn't like she, so I told her what I thought she wanted to hear and got out of C early much to my liking! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Then, when I was told I had Generalized Anxiety Disorder...I was sent to a C, who I felt could care less whether I killed myself or lived, so I stopped going. She never called to check on me or anything that was five or six years ago. Also, they didn't want to put me on meds at the time...so I just started them last Oct.

IC, scares me...more so the Counsellor.

HB-Here you go and thanks for sticking with me...it means a lot!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3077421

Rin, can you see the parallels between my FOO and your marriage? The perceptions of what you have versus what you wish for?

Can you clarify about the store? This is the rendevous point...got that. What do you mean OP walked out of the office...is that yesterday or when you exposed? Did you expose to her company? To the store's district manager?

I ask because I don't know how I would handle a location trigger like that store. Maybe there are some threads on here with a certain bar or the gym that apply...I would imagine that as part of the consequences for the affair, that store would be off-limits as protection of your marriage, correct?

Why did you go there, knowing he was stopping by there? He could get his money at home, couldn't he?

How about an answer to "What, you're not happy with me stopping by the store?" as

"I see your choice to stop by your affair meeting place as intentionally harming our marriage." Calm and straight forward.

State your truth: "I know you comprehend how devastating it is to me for you to put casual acquaintances" (that's my idea of why he stopped by there...lemme know if there was another reason) "above our marriage. That place is a symbol of adultery and lies to me and I re-live a lot of crap all at once when it is mentioned, let alone, when you go there."

Just in case you were serious about not knowing what Al-Anon is...it is for relatives of alcoholics--what I call, where control freaks go...as long as you have any member in your family...be it your great grandfather, second cousin...with alcohol issues, you can go and learn how to only own your own stuff. Seriously, folks go for rage, me for infidelity, lots of stuff--when we are desperately response-based and controlling.

Where we learn to let go and let God. It's awesome. I wasn't joking about it being your personal time...well spent and great self-care...and you can get a sponsor, as well...

As for your desires...what is reasonable tomorrow may not be reasonable today...may not be reasonable yet. Your belief determines how you feel today, and tomorrow. Have faith that recovery leads to better...and do not allow yourself to dabble in what are false thoughts...you cannot make him feel, think or believe anything...

I used this deep remorse I think you were feeling when you posted as motivation to not be a victim...that's what I did. I took all that I had done and stopped doing it for me...to not be who I was...and it helped me through the waiting, not LBing, time of WH's decision and then withdrawal. Use this if you need to now...and know later...it is disrespectful to believe you had that much power...to take only your part, not blame.

Kettle calling pot...kettle calling pot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((Rin))))

You are doing great and you know it...sleep is helping, the new med seems to be working and time is on your side...working for you. With you. In you.

Your poise, humor, energy and commitment are powerful...and you're aware of them, and sharing them.

About the abused hubby thread...I got where expected response generates the fear after real abuse, regardless of actual response...PTSD...and like my DH, what he was scared of from me was him re-experiencing his mother in me, and in others (bosses, authorities, etc.)...not all me...my part, all I could clear up. He has to clear up all the rest. Process not perfection.

Keep that in mind...the past is past...for all of us...every human...today is all we have ever had or will have...and you, Rin, are incredible at knowing that.

Stay here with us, 'k?

LA

Rin,

The reason I didn't go to MC long ago was my FWW's alcoholism. It just wouldn't have done any good. Then I waited until she was sober for a while so I didn't overwhelm her in the early stages of recovery.

I can tell you the MC I have seems very good. He doesn't just sit there and nod.

I told him I felt very unappreciated before the A. He stopped looked at my FWW and said "So HL what you are saying is that even though you were putting in as much as you could and shifted things around so you could accomodate your FWW you felt very unappreciated" I said yes.

When my FWW tried to shift some things toward me as far as being a bad H he simply said I can understand how you feel but his actions are understandable.

Sometimes I can say something to my FWW 50 times and she will disagree with me. Let her sponsor say it once and she will actually look inside and agree.

Now why does that matter. Because it seems like your H is like my FWW. Hearing it from you is not taken into consideration as much as if someone else says it.

I am very happy that we went to MC. I think it will be very good for us.

Again I think my FWW and your H share the same thinking that everything is ok in their life and in the M. If you would just GET OVER the A then things will be wonderful. Or as long as you agree to let him do what he wants you are great.

It is not great for you. It was not great for me. So there you go.

I keep saying that sometimes your actions may or may not be right. Your feelings may or may not be right. However sometimes they are understandable. Take away those things that make those things understandable and you will have a happy M. If he owns the things that make your actions understandable then he needs to change as well.

That is where detachment has helped me. The things that she does that make it understandable don't bother me as much.

You know FWW got mad because I did DJ and LB. During detachment I finally tried to stop. I would just walk away or point them out. Well when she wanted to go to NY she dropped at least a half a dozen DJ's on me.

OMG a light went on in my head. In the past she was DJing me and finally I caved and went right back at her. DUH HL why not just point it out. So we sat down and talked and she did it again. She got to the half a dozen mark and I just stopped. I repeated every single one she had dropped on me and said "This is where I usually start DJing back." I am not going to do that. But you need to stop.

One of her DJ's was why don't you just be a man and say what you mean.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST BE A MAN. I told her that was a hugh DJ questioning my manhood. She actually said it wasn't meant to be one. I said great put it into a context where it wouldn't be one. I can't think of any that it wouldn't really TICK SOMEONE OFF.

So now what. I just now point it out to her every time. I don't blow up anymore like I used too. LOL. Which by the way she told the MC I blow up every month to month and a half.

I wanted to say yep I did but I won't anymore because I won't accept her DJ's and then go boom and do it back.

I was wrong for doing it but I can say any man that would tell you that they wouldn't blow up when someone says "why don't you be a man" is not being honest. I usually didn't until after a few more of those.

Was I right now, should you understand why I would yes.

Go see a good MC. Part of the reason I am going to go to IC is that I need to lead by example.

The MC said my FWW should really, really go and he said I should consider going. He said selling me would be a bit harder. I said I am sold already when can I get the referals. What can the FWW do now? Not go even though he told her she really needed it and I should consider it.

I think I am rambling today. LOL.

((((((Rin))))))

Just wanted you to know that I am folowing your thread. My thoughts are with you.

You are amazing and inspiring.

If at all possible, I think you should work an IC into your budget. Shop around until you find one that you "click" with because all counselors are not created equal. Don't let your past experiences steer you away from this.

You are your biggest investment - so invest in yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Edited to say : "HL - the Yankess??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hi, all! I'm having some trouble absorbing all of your posts, so please bare with me.

Lizzie...I need another word outside of thanks, I really do! Note, taken, wholeheartedly! Honestly, that's a HUGE jump for me...I am considering it...I'm sure it has to do with the recent horrible day that I canceled all appointments. I promise to you...I will try to work on that issue...and I firmly believe when you make one you keep it. I use to said in my 20's, promises were meant to be broken...but that was what I saw in OPs codes not mine.

HL...MY good man! Glad to be of service with that lightbulb...must be my energy that LA says I have.

"Or as long as you agree to let him do what he wants you are great. It is not great for you. It was not great for me. So there you go."

I'll have to examine whether I have a fear of telling him no more bike night thing...I really don't think so. Once again, last night, he came home and was telling me who he saw and where he was. On that note, I need and will decided on some boundaries...much overdue.

LA..."Can you clarify about the store? This is the rendevous point...got that. What do you mean OP walked out of the office...is that yesterday or when you exposed? Did you expose to her company? To the store's district manager?"

It's a convenient store where WH has been going for years, OW didn't work there...she was a customer also...OW's a busdriver and almost every bus bothers me now...lovely...I find myself looking for her number...she drove OS on his field trip to new school in May.

Before I walked into the office, yesterday, he was sitting in, both the manager and her co-worker walked out...I would never disrespect him and call him out in front of OP. I wouldn't want it done to me but I give him the same respect. I went into the office and spoke quietly. The bank and the store are maybe a block away from each other. MOF, I pass by the store to go to the bank of Thurs. evening and a few other times. I exposed on the phone to manager because I couldn't get there without the kids being present back in July, what I referred to at the time as 2nd DD.

"Just in case you were serious about not knowing what Al-Anon is"...I was serious...I'm actually considering it too...I'd like to check the paper...not sure right now...people I don't know...going by myself...it's not just this group it's any group...anxiety I want to overcome...similiar to dinner by myself...

Sometimes the anxiety is bad and sometimes not...I feeling it now, I'm sure b/c I have too much going on, med, H, me...

I've decided I was starting a pity party for myself and am cancelling all invitations...but I still want a break...a time out...

"As for your desires...what is reasonable tomorrow may not be reasonable today...may not be reasonable yet. Your belief determines how you feel today, and tomorrow. Have faith that recovery leads to better...and do not allow yourself to dabble in what are false thoughts...you cannot make him feel, think or believe anything..."

Understood!

"I used this deep remorse I think you were feeling when you posted as motivation to not be a victim...that's what I did. I took all that I had done and stopped doing it for me...to not be who I was...and it helped me through the waiting, not LBing, time of WH's decision and then withdrawal. Use this if you need to now...and know later...it is disrespectful to believe you had that much power...to take only your part, not blame."

I need you to rephase this...I've read it so many times and still..., yes, deep remorse...I'm lost from there...remorse equals guilt...me blaming me for (?) his mistakes...no, me not being there for him because I withdrew....???????

Ah, I get only the part about "Use this if you need to now...and know later...it is disrespectful to believe you had that much power..."

Everyone...thanks you I really am trying...I can't achieve perfection...I KNOW this...and I need to think about why my achiever, who has always been determined to sucess is wanting to give up or maybe not so much give up but is screaming (inner child) for a time out!

Yeap...I see...FOO and WH...

Nobody can achieve perfection.

Not even Captain Kirk was perfect.

But when he put the crew in danger he certainly took ownership and if he had to sleep with a blue alien women to get them out of it he did.

Ownership makes perfection unnecessary.

Thanks HL, I'm starting to get out on my funk...Pep's thread today has really helped me out! Some of your comments too...said but I knew all the characters you were referring too...LOL

Ownership...hum...and your wait time is....LOL

Well, I'm seeing a pattern that I didn't see before but knew was there:

HN comes first...

Store w/ acquaintances and free coffee and soda comes first...

Ummm. I wonder where else I can point this out...

What is this behavior?

So far over 3 years and counting. LOL.

But you see her lack of ownership is now costing her. I am a lot less likely to agree to things I would if she took ownership.

Aha if a sitch requires trust and she has not earned that trust I don't agree. If a sitch may have some consequences and if past behaviour is an inidicator of future behavior I will believe she will not take ownership. Again I have started not to agree.

So now if she wants me to put her first, to trust her and to believe she will take ownership I NEED to see it.

So there you go.

"HN comes first...

Store w/ acquaintances and free coffee and soda comes first..."


Careful .... I think you're treading on thin ice making statements like this. Could become something you start believing, and even making come true (other things take first place over me....). Plus you really don't know that's what his motivations were. You're assuming his intent.


Do you really think he thought "Our child is not as important as the neighbor, so I'm going to ditch the kid's event." or "Ya know, Rin would really hate me going to this store, but, man, I'm thirsty, and she's not as important as getting a free soda and hanging out with the crew..."

Nah.

I'd guess it was something more like "Do I hear trouble? Here is my chance to be Superman! Woo-Hoo, give me my cape, I'm off to save the day!"

And "Wow, haven't seen those guys in a while, think I'll stop in for a quick drink and catch up."

No first and second place, there .... just not really thinking through how those seemingly small choices would affect you. That's why it's your job to be O&H about how they do affect you and enforce your boundaries. And don't assume his motivations.

Well, once again, out of my control....I'm still learning to own my own stuff...it all sounds so confusing "ownership"

Aliens...alien words...

Let's see my new reality is:

...I'm new! WH is still W. WH is starting to share. I have at least until Oct.1st for withdrawal to do it's thing. (I think he doesn't even like her anymore...with the comments he's made and the lying that she's done...that WH has caught her in...) I'm still learning that I need boundaries for myself and others. ...

oKay, that's enough hard thinking for the time being...

oh, I'll add: I'm SPEAKING UP for yourself when I have something to say and I'm learning to be more respectful.

Okay...I'm done...How's that for a new reality? I'm trying!

Rin,

Good for you.

I am not suggesting by the way that the other things are more important to your H.

I think Ami has it right.

You see I don't believe that really I am not the most important thing in my FWW's life. YET. What I believe is because I had a total lack of boundries she hasn't learned how to treat me or act around me.

You see that is why you need the boundries.

Well Rin,

I am off for the weekend. I won't be posting so why not sit down and think about your boundries.

What is causing you to be in a situation that would understandably make you upset.

Then what are you going to do to enforce them.

See with me I had nothing my FWW could care less. I think part of it was me not wanting a D. Lets face it if I am not going to D you for an A what the heck am I gonna do for crossing this little boundry.

Well gee I guess I can stop being so darn accomodating. I guess I can stop being MR. supportive. I guess I can 180 and emotionally detach.

Aha. Now she wasn't getting what she wanted anymore.

She liked the accomodating, supportive, loving, caring guy. HMMM.

For me my boundries couldn't be enforced by action they had to be enforced with INACTION.

Maybe that might help.