It just hit me...right after exposure, the 1st time...H and I went to baton Rouge and visited some friends...and he kept saying our female friend was treating him different...

I didn't see it...could this have been a result of his guilt?

Also the same thing that he asked me the other day about what my bosses said the other day about him working nights. Remember I said that he asked me, "what did everyone here said when I told them that he was going to start working nights?"

Could this also been a result of guilt?

What do people WSs do as a result of guilt? Some examples please!

Rin,

I don't honestly know. I think it is part of my struggle right now.

I cannot see how her guilt outwardly effected our M in a positive way.

I don't like the word guilt, maybe remorse, and repent. How did their remorse effect them?

For me I think my FWW became more self indulgent. She tried to fill herself up with other things. I think she drank more too.

But in a positive way I don't know. I think it is a slippery slope. Guilt can make someone feel bad about themselves. How they react to it is up to them. Fix what is causing the guilt or find something else to make themselves not feel bad.

Hopefully your H's remorse will push him in a positive direction.

Well, I've notice that H is doing little things for me...like the coffee, the snicker, telling me why he was late...

Perhaps he did these things before...I really don't think so, but I just didn't notice them...I am very aware now...

Of course, my outlook has changed...I'm looking now...eyes wife open...

Yeah, it was me...and my bad attitude...not appreicating him...I remember now! I was ungrateful! WOW!

There you go.

Be careful Rin. If you slip back he might too.

I can say right now I haven't felt appreciated and still don't. I really would like that. Heck coffe and snickers and you notice you are great.

My FWW didn't notice I wash the dishes in the sink every morning and make our bed. LOL.

Well, first I'm remaining calm and would like to find the right things to say. FWH will be calling me back anytime now.

I found porn on my computer when I got home today. I called him and said that I was disturbed. he asked if he could call me back.

How do I address this...I felt a lack of trust, and disappointment. Two days worth after I have left. I'm glad that he didn't delete it like he use to.

I'm really calm and I want to handle this better than I have in the past with respect.

I just got off the phone with him. I was told I was treating him like a child...he's agrown adult...because I don't like it doesn't mean that he's going to stop...I thanked him for not hidding it!

I said that I can't be with someone that disrespected me and did not consider my feeling. He said That I could pack my sh1t and leave. I said I wasn't going to pack my stuff and I was not leaving. He hung up.

There's more...but that's the just of it!

He said that he makes one mistake and is going to have it held against him for the rest of his life.

He doesn't care. He does NOT care, that this hurts ME!

I guess he didn't hit rock bottom b/c I feel like if that's his attitude then he'll do it again.

Well, I did a search for porn here and found this thread.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...mber=3096852&page=0&vc=1

I read some and the different views. I called FWH back and told him that I found the thread and this is the kind of think I was asking from him early. I was asking him what why he was looking at it and to explain to me why. I apolozied for handling the situation wrong and asked if I left the thread up would he read it and it could help him explain to me why he enjoys it if he's not going to stop. I said I was not trying to be a b!tch or trying to make his life miserable.

I asked if we could talk about it later when we were not reacting to each other and we were more level headed. I said I don't understand why he looks at it and if he's not comparing me, or whatever I need him to explain it to me.

See the thing is anytime I ask him to explain how he feels about sometime...to help me understand him...he gets defensive and it seems to me that he starts talking off the top of his head without thinking.

I of course worry that he's looking for someone else.

He said earlier that he clicked on the friend finder site by accident, and low and behold A FRIEND of our's and someone I went to school with was on the front page! There were no more entries for that one...from there on it was pics and stories.

This makes me feel extremely uncomfortable...it's like he's looking for someone else...like I'm not good enough. I've explained this to him, and I get defensive behavior of fine I'm not usingyour computer anymore. He went on stike for maybe two months without touching my computer.

What?

Rin, this sounds awfully strange to me and maybe it is just my heightened sense for this stuff now, but you mean to tell me he ACCIDENTALLY clicked on this site and a FRIEND of yours happened to be there <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

This shoots up a HUGE red flag for me Rin.

I can tell you that when I was really into porn it was because SF was one of my top EN's and it wasn't being fully met by my WW. She always seemed tired and seemed more interested in her romance novels.

I would have loved for my WW to intiate more but she was withdrawing as she was entering her EA and I couldn't understand what was going on. Subsequently my porn use increased to compensate for this and made things worse.

Maybe if you can tell your FWH that you would like to fill his need for SF with DJ's. I felt I couldn't talk to my WW so it would help if you can be open with him without DJ'ing. I know that is a tough thing to do based on how you feel right now.

BTW, I'm sorry you are having this setback.

I can tell you that he is no..I mean no where interested in her...GUT FEELING and the way he talks about her. She is huge and he can't even imagine that.

See...right now we both aren't getting it as much as we like b/c of hhim working nights...it's 10 days now.

Next, I'm getting tired of waking him up and starting things...although I haven't complained and will not...

I would LOVE to fill his need...I'm calmer reading the different views on the subject...I'm understanding more, but I need to understand his why...which I haven't been able to get out of him...he just says that he likes looking at nakes woman...

I need more communication of the subject...

I really appreicate you helping...What do you mean by DJing...like what would she say...maybe I'm doing it and don't know...

I can tell you that I'm uncomfortable with it because I view it as a threat to me...like he's looking at OW because I'm not enough for him...another belief the A has helped with...I'm not enough for him...

I feel like if he'll look at porn then he'll go find another A...Big DJ, huh?

I have thought about my intentions and would like help in the sitch...

First I feel like I need to clarify something...this is like salt in a wound for me right now...

Second this is something I have not been comfortable with because I feel like he'slooking for someone else. (I KNOW that our friend being on that page was an accident, he would have looked at the pics see posted.)

I understand that some of the things I feel about his use of porn may my problem...my insecurities...if that is the case...I would like to fix that aboout myself...

If he is not fantasing or masturbating to the pics then I can feel better about it...I'm willing to change my belief under the right circumstances...why he's doing it...I need more information...I also need him to realize that it is throwing me for one crazy huge loop...

This is why I'm calling on certain MBers...after having read some of their posts...

My view on porn is substantially different than most MBers, I think. But, I appreciate you asking for my opinion on things.

Honestly, the fact that he's worked nights and you two haven't been able to fulfill your sexual needs may be part of the problem. Men can get really, really frustrated, sexually, and it sort of builds up pressure. It's hard to explain it, because its a hormonal thing. It's natural to want to release that pressure; it's like a steam valve--it'll go off eventually by itself even if he doesn't do anything about it (nocturnal emissions). Masturbation isn't necessarily a bad thing, and that might be all he's doing.

The fact that he went to a Friend Finder thing may have not been his fault at all. Many porn sites apparently link to the Adult Friend Finder service now, and since location can be determined by IP address now, they toss up "local" profiles. Now, I can't say for certain that this is what happened, but it is very possible.

On the other hand, it is always possible that he did go there on purpose. That, by itself, is a bad thing. A big red flag. And the fact that he's being defensive about it is bad too. If it was just porn, I'd say he was just a little sexually frustrated, and that you really didn't have anything to worry about.

He needs to tell you why he was looking at the porn, and he needs to be honest, without being defensive. This situation, honestly, could go either way. He could just be doing it for the release, without any other reasons, or it could be something else.

I wish you luck. Keep on him, but don't nag him. Try to find a way to approach the situation from an odd angle, one he might be more comfortable with.

First thank you very much, I asked you because I wanted your opinion after reading your other posts. So I do appreicate your time and thoughts on the subject.

[q]The fact that he went to a Friend Finder thing may have not been his fault at all. Many porn sites apparently link to the Adult Friend Finder service now, and since location can be determined by IP address now, they toss up "local" profiles. Now, I can't say for certain that this is what happened, but it is very possible.[/q]

I asked him and he did say it was an accident. I verified with my evidence. So, I'll cool with that part.

I know H M's, heck, I do...no problems there...I do have a problem with him looking at porn an then M, but that is because of my present belief as a W...what I need is some understanding from a M point of view...

thanks, I'm a little sensitive to the subject more than I have been...in the past, I didn't like it but I didn't say to much...it makes me feel insecure...I view it as a threat...moreso now than ever...

Thank you once again for your insight...I would like to understand your view more...given the opportunity...

Would you like for me to talk about it here in the post, or just send you a PM?

I'm fine with here...well, PM, I would not like to see some views on the subject to be honest.

Hey, Rin.

I can't really speak to the porn issue, but just like everything, take your time to breathe and sort out your feelings ... you have a good start on that already, but a little bit of space and breathing room always makes things a little clearer.

Try not to act too rashly, don't keep pushing him for answers right this minute -- you'll just keep fighting. Wait until you can both discuss it rationally.


And then remember what's yours and what's his.

You want to know why -- what if he doesn't really know why?

Can you tell him how you feel, all the real feelings ... without making him agree with you?

Can you listen to how he feels without having to agree with him?

Is this a boundary? Or something that you can find a middle ground on? You're the only one who can answer that ...

If it's a boundary, what are your boundary enforcements?


You're going to be ok, you are so smart and strong. This isn't another A, it is something that you and your DH can figure out, together.

I believe in you!!

-AmI.

Hi, AmI..

I was reading that thread on M/porn and found two websites for lingeria...so I TMed them to H. He called...said that he was looking for clothing for me...chaps, in kids, so I could fit in them...and these sites kept coming up...of course he was interested in a few, so he read a few stories...

I checked out the history and the properties...seeing what time it was visited and how many times...changed the view from date to most often visited...by site...by order...

Anyway, the site that I TMed him, he thought he had marked them...so he told me to go down the list...NOPE, not there...I told him where I got those from and about the threat...

We talked a little, and I told him I was uncomfortable...I viewed it as a threat...that if he was Ming to it, that really bothered me...H said no, suck luck on the Ming to it...said he could do that anytime and didn't need any help...I made sure that he knew I was ok with him Ming...

LOL...no double standard on that part! LOL

So, I feel better, but I'm still edgy about the porn...at least I have a better understanding...not really why but I got some info...from some of the names of the sites you would think it's clothing sites...all of his search engines were things like biker chick...biker b!tch...

And he told me to check his engines out...

So, yes, he did view some...he owned...I hear him say it...I did...

That means soooo much...like I said I'm still a little edgy about it but feeling better...

And in a way I guess I owe him an apology because I think I assumed that's what he was intenting to do...he was talking in his real voice...not defensive voice...he was calm...

Anyway, I said something about these are the kind of things that I hope to work out...areas like this...

Okay, I kinda feel bad...not I don't...he was watching videos...looking at pics...reading stories...not JUST looking for clothes for me...

And you're right AmI, I was so smacked with A, felt betrayed all over again...just didn't hurt as bad...felt FWH still not trustworthy...DJed, I'm going to have to deal with this my whole life...

Rollercoaster rides...I don't like this one...I'm in a rough patch I think...i'm Djing...no yelling today! Hurray!

No nap today...helping entertain big wig at lunch, I didn't even cook tonight, OS heated somestuff up for him and YS...H ordered out from work...I heated up a little something after the kids were in bed...

(((Rin))))
Just saw the new twist in your story.
I'll post more when I get to work.

Hi, everyone, I want to let you know that everything is fine. Matter of fact, there were cops are over the place in front of my house. Before I saw the cops, I thought I heard gunshots, not something typical to the area. Then, I saw cops going up and down the street.

I called H and told him what was going on, and he asked if I wanted him to come home and check things out. At first, I said no, but then I heard someone yelling "HEY, HEY." So, I said yea.

I called him back a few minutes later to see where he was and said that it really looked like they had a DWI checkpoint up the road. He asked which direction I thought he needed to come. A few minutes later, he was at the house, sure enough, DWI checkpoint!

He pulled out the driveway a few minutes later, and they pulled him over, asked why he had turned around! LOL

They let him go, of course! And he called to let me about it.

This morning, he bought me cappacino, and a new coffee mug.
It was very pleasant, and I appreciate him coming home and checking things out.

I think I not overreacted, but in a way yes. Make any sense? I'm thinking "He's looking for someone new or something like that." Me and my trust issues!

I really want to work on, my feeling uncomfortable, feeling insecure that he's looking at porn. It sounded to me like he's not trying to substitue porn for me...he just looks at the pictures, reads the stories.

The way he talks about it: it's harmless.

Oh, and when I kissed him goodbye this morning...we peck several times, and it seemed like he just wanted to keep kissing...he was teasing me! When I back off, he kept kissing the AIR! LOL SO, I went in for a few more.

I have a few more thoughts on the subject but I'll have to post them later.


HL- I really want to hear what you have to say about the subject, and LA if you would be so kind as to help me own here. I see enmeshment and would like to work on that too. please!

Thanks for everything and ChaCha, I appreciate hearing from you and look forward to hearing what you have to say on the subject also.

Hey, Rin...I just caught up here...

Don't know if you remember, but this is/was an issue in my marriage.

Let me ask you this...how does your H feel about his sons seeing what he's looking at...at these ages and in the next few years? How do you?

There's a difference from the way men grew up before and now...and that's the internet. It's no JC Penney catalog...no Playboy snuck from their father's stash...it's wide open.

And my DH was/is addicted. I don't know how to phrase it now...he's choosing not to do it. Our MC got through to him that this distraction from anxiety was not a healthy, aware approach to life. Living in fantasy by subtle means...from permissions formed into habit from a lifetime. My H began to recognize how he managed his feelings through fantasizing...real people he'd see, from having viewed porn for years, read stories (that was his thing, too), gave him a secret inner life, safe from intimacy, and with the same benefits as alcohol and drugs...escaping real life.

My H now believes in only fantasizing about me, his wife. He has experienced great relief in doing this...rather than deprivation.

I share this because our fear of intimacy made many villager...gave many permissions which felt like protection and were in reality, ways to distance, not experience and not share our lives. I believe porn is one of them.

It makes people two-dimensional, the ones viewed, and trains the brain to see others as objects, to be manuevered, used...safe distance, false payoff. Cut off the bad, eliminate the great with it.

This isn't about you and your insecurities, Rin...and you don't have to fix yourself...you aren't broken. I believe you have a gut instinct that what is holy within the marriage, our physical intimacy, is part of the strength of the marriage. We are each other's sole source, in theory. That extreme dependency isn't healthy...neither is an extreme independency...balanced interdependency, I believe, is our goal.

All this was new to us...changing our perspectives and permissions...not because it hurt the other (though that counts in the motivation), but because we discover how it hurts ourselves...changing for us, sharing the benefits of it.

I installed CyberPatrol on our computer...primarily for teenaged boys...a side benefit, my DH doesn't know the password, either. Consider POJA'ing this...with the view to being respectful to your marriage and family.

What we don't want to do for our spouses (because we feel controlled by their views, feelings and beliefs), we can choose to do for our marriage, and in turn, for ourselves. Then the results look the same, the act of honoring the marriage may give you love bank deposits (does me) as a byproduct.

If you look inside, Rin, and find yourself choosing to perceive that you are not enough, that you are in competition with fantasy, taking it as reality (and yes, he's looked elsewhere...for reasons in HIM not you)...then you're going to experience a lot of pain. I sure did. If it's coming from your belief you have to make him happy to make him stay...could you examine and rethink that?

Feeling controlled isn't being controlled...you learned that. You know your power of choice...you choose everything in your life...to react rather than act, even. Takes time and exampling ownership before others choose to change their lives. No control. And you've noticed him owning what he has not owned before--changing his response...which he's doing by choice.

Please stay present...no leaping anywhere but here, today...this moment...you're very aware, full of the intent to respect and understand...please see this in yourself...and teach the DJs you don't want nor need them anymore. They hurt you. They give you pain.

LA