I wrote my MIL an email this morning, I get back from lunch and this is part of her reply:

"Remember Marriage is a work in progress. Anything worthwhile is worth saving. You two have a lot to be thankful for and have been blessed beyond measure. I am proud of both of you for the accomplishments you have made in such a short time. Just remember to pray often and thank Heavenly Father for the many blessings he has given you. Have faith and everything will work for the better. Satan is busy, but prayer and faith are your biggest weapons against him."

My heart is not in this yet. I'm not scare of HIM.

I told him that I was considering separation, he got angry, was trying to turn it around on me. I pointed out the behavior, and told him I was leaving. He came out of the front door and blocked the driver's side door with arms folded. I wasn't backing don't, I told him that if I couldn't talk to him as a rational adult then I wasn't going to talk at all right now.

I left, bought something to drink, and went to the park. I was fine, clear head. WH TMed me with :When you can stop regarding to me as someone who is lesser than yourself we can talk.

...I called and said I'm trying to treat you as my equal...we had a calm conversation...at the end I asked him if he would read SAA...He said that was not going to happen...I asked why not...he said they are no longer here...

With a little more probing he told me he burned them. I equired about which ones, and he said all of them. I told him that I couldn't create a safe conversation for him right now, that I was hurt, that I had to think. I asked him if he felt better...he said kind of... I said I love you and hung up!

I will save what I am thinking for later!

Rin, I am sorry to hear this. I just read a few posts back and see he called himself an AH.... now this.

Ok, you have hit a few nerves with him so at least he ain't emotionally dead..... now get a plan to use what he has given you to fight off this A demon who has entered your home.

He burned the books....hm....he thinks he has triumped? Go buy replacement books. He claims u r treating him like a child? Let him know if he keeps acting like one you will. He says he's an AH? Agree.

Don't accuse him. He is already doing that by himself. Let him be his own downfall. It's already in motion.

The hard thing is to keep your composure without getting stepped on.

I used to tell mine: 'Ws, I love you but right now u r being an idiot'. This was about the time he would start agreeing. I didn't make him agree, he did it on his own and when he didn't say anything, it was taken as an agreement.

See I didn't force but I didn't cower. It was hard at first because I knew he was putting himself down. But that was the truth and he needed to admit it to himself. It was a hard time of seeing the truth.

He knew I loved him but refused to allow him to blame me for his stupidity. Mine didn't destroy my books but he destroyed his own beloved MAC. He threw it on the floor in front of my son and I. My son still recalls it with horror until this day. The pieces flew in almost every room in the house and one piece went whizzing right by our son's head. It was a scary moment. U know what? He blamed me for that too. I looked at him dead in the eye and said: 'are you serious? I don't have the strength to throw it down like you did.' LOL!!! He knew but he still tried to blame me. I made him pick up his own broken pieces and in his warped mind he was goona fix it. It had t/b trashed.....that was the computer he and OW used to communicate secretly (so I couldn't track their secret e-mail). That's ok, I had other tools.

So learn to use what he is giving you and you will be ok. Just be careful. He is quite vulnerable right now.

Btw, when I told him I loved him, I told him I loved my H but not when he is being a WS or an idiot. Especially when he was being both. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

O-

Can you please explain some more? What do you mean use what he is giving me?

My head is swimming just something that WH told me at lunch...

I punish him almost everyday for his A...

I talk down to him...

He's not sure that he likes the new me, I'm always so serious...I'm not fun loving anymore.

When I think of more I will post more of the conversation.

How do I make this into an O&H statement?

okay...I'm looking for max. impact without attacking.

I'm sure that burning my books and threating to burn the house down will look good on you should we ever go to for a D.

My co-worker pointed out anger issues. I'm here to keep sane...instead of waiting until tonight...I can concentrate on my work and I just have to stuff env. today.

Personally I think your plan B letter would be the best O and H choice.

My impression would be that as far as he is concerned the rest is just words.

Rin - stop playing this game. You are in danger here. It's time to stop the one-up-manship game. He is making serious threats and should be dealt with very, very seriously.

Knock it off before someone gets hurt - meaning you. In some cases, when the P/A behaviour doesn't work any more the P/A switches to full-blown Aggression. That's what's happening here.

Burning your property -- your books - was an aggressive, violent act. It was burning YOU in effigy. Now he's threatening to burn down your house? How big a clue do you need to GET AWAY FROM HIM NOW?

Think of it as Plan B, if it helps. But GET AWAY NOW.
Mulan

AHHHH...the WS is not a RATIONAL ADULT so can't be talked to as if he is....

It is imperative for YOU to remain the SANE one because HE IS NOT. I considered my H to be TEMPORARILY INSANE when he was a WH and he was... He didn't BURN BOOKS but did comparable stuff..YUCK...

I'm not sure why you went ahead with the ULTIMATUM. That was provocative. We were encouraging you to do PLAN B. A PLAN..NOT IMPULSIVE TALKING OR ACTION...

Calm, cool and collected....not playing his game..not going to his GUTTER LEVEL...

TWO-WAY CONVERSATIONS with him at this point are USELESS...All that he is saying is aimed at him GETTING HIS WAY. I don't know what else he is said but I'm sure that it has no VALUABLE MEANING....

My months and months of sitting back and observing a WH makes me feel like I'm an EXPERT on them...YUCK..

He threatened to burn the house down, too? How about a Plan B letter accompanied by a restraining order?

Let him see some real consequences for his behavior. You have to keep yourself and your family safe.

He's absolutely acting like a child ... throwing an adult-sized tantrum.

I'm not sure that I'd be too glib with him right now. If you need to say something, stick with the "I feel _____________ (threatened, insecure, unsafe .... ?) with you burning my belongings and threatening to burn the house down. I will protect myself and the kids from threats like that."

I don't think I'd make threats of your own ("this won't look good for you if we D..." just sounds like an empty threat.)

I don't really know, I'm just throwing out thoughts here. I'd go with the experts around here. But really don't let him bully you into fighting. Act, not react, remember???

Hang in there!!

-AmI.

Rin,

First never speak the words separation or divorce unless you are 100% sure this is what you are going to do.

They are nothing more then shallow threats.

I turned it around on FWW and told her I will never file for a D. You started this and it will be your decesion to end it.

Next I would go out and buy new copies of all of the books he burned. Heck I would buy two of everything just in case and let him know that no matter how many times her burns them or destroys them you will go out and buy new copies. He can keep burning them all he wants.

I don't recomend this part but it would be funny and I am always good for a laugh. Ok remember everyone this is a joke. Tell him next time he burns a set you will too. Right under the gastank of his harley.

Now instead of a D I agree with plan B. He is essentially using his PA behavior to dare you to enforce your boundries. Not doing so now will make things much tougher on you. I made this mistake with the FWW. You must enforce your boundries to make them worth anything to him.

Finally he is saying you are controlling and you act like his parent. Well no ****** sherlock HE IS ACTING LIKE A CHILD. Someone needs to be the adult.

You must act and act quicly on this. I don't know exactly what you should do but you need to decide and move forward.

I'll ask since I don't see this being addressed...

Are you able to step out of the dance?

Really?

This is Dday.....3?

What is different now vs last time...or the time before that?

You may want to explore whether you are really truly willing to walk away EVEN IF you still love him and want the marriage [but on different terms].

If you are not able/willing to walk away you have no power and nothing will change...get used to the steps and find a way to cope with/accept them because they are your future.

If you are willing to walk away...what has prevented you thus far and what is preventing you now?

What I see is more of the same old dance. I see you asking "but what should I say..." when nothing you have said so far has impacted his behavior in the slightest...why more saying...have you been struggling with the belief that if you could just find the right words he would get it..agree..and care enough to change?

Are you going to change this? Or not?

Try to stop thinking about what he said to you.

IT IS ALL BULLCRAP...TRYING TO GET THE UPPER HAND WITH YOU!!! Trying to pull you down to his level.

Work on PERSONAL CONTROL... ..your own reality!!

Where is LA??? She's good at this stuff.

Your WH needs to be COMPLETELY IGNORED!!

I stopped listening to my WH's WORDS...ALL GARBAGE!!!

Speak the truth..

I still say insist upon THE BASICS regardless of what he has to SAY...

You can try it with words if you think this is at all possible...

If not, PLAN B LETTER....

I'm not sure if I believe that he burned the books or that he will burn the house...

Do you think that he is BULLYING YOU..trying to scare you..trying to get you to back down.....?

***He is essentially using his PA behavior to dare you to enforce your boundries.***

This guy has crossed the line from Passive/Aggressive to full-blown Aggressive. Burning her property was an aggressive, violent act. Threatening to burn down her house is not normal by any stretch.

Rin is no longer dealing with garden-variety P/A behaviour.

"Plan B accompanied by a restraining order." If you do anything less, Rin, you are no longer a victim. You are a volunteer.
Mulan

At the beginning of this, he threaten it then...right now...he is passive I spoke with him...

He threaten this a week after D-day...in april.

Describe what your purpose is in saying this. I cant think of any purpose other than to attack back.

------

A thought from me on his actions.
Anger is caused by fear. burning your books was an action of anger, brought about by fear.
What does he fear?

I think he's afraid of confronting what is in the books. I think you've been showing him that he needs to change his actions, and rationalizations, to save his marriage. He doesnt want to confront that, so he burnt the books. Some strange part of his mind wants to think that if he burns the books, they wont be true any more.

I dont think you're in any danger.

I think you have TWO choices here.

#1: "plan B". To me, this is the forcible, "I cant take it any more, I'm done trying with you, let me know when YOU want to get serious, and call me" approach.

#2: The softer, still willing to engage in negotiation approach, of telling him how hurt you are by what he did. That it makes you feel like he doesnt want to work on your marriage any more. But burning the books, doesnt change anything about what needs to be done. Say that you would like to keep open communication and discussion between you, if he also does. Then insist that HE replace the books for you. (give him a day or two to decide, if he doesnt agree right away). If he still refuses.. then perhaps plan B would be in order.

#2 will hurt you more in some ways. but #1 will hurt you in others, unless you are truely at "plan B" low levels of feelings for him already.


HOWEVER... I think you need to examine if there was anything true about his statements that you "punish" him, and talk down to him. Even if you werent doing that exactly... if there are things you have been doing, that could give that /perception/ to him... see if there is anything you could do differently. Ask him about it. If there are rational, objectve things you could do (rather than irrational "When you said 'blue', I KNOW YOU REALLY MEANT 'red'" garbage!!!) then the loving, MB way of doing things would be to try to alter things, I think.

And I think you should talk to him FIRST about this bit, before talking about the books.

Just some thoughts from an amateur armchair psychologist <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know, and this is not lying to myself...after thirteen year, I KNOW this man will not hurt ME...if is not in his belief system...HE WILL damage property.

I CAN swear to YOU...he lays ONE HAND on ME to INTENTIONALLY hurt ME and HE WILL BE SLAPPED WITH CHARGES and there will be no plan B...straight to PLAN D!

There's another way to work this out...I have faith...

I just calling a friend of mine that works with H to find the number for the employee asst. program to find a IC...MC

I'm waiting on the email now!

So the threat to burn the house down was in April? Or he threatened to burn the books in April, and just now did it?


Either way, you need a serious boundary enforcement. This is not ok, and you don't want an H who does things like this just to try to bully you into letting him do whatever he wants.


Plan B, and call the police. I don't know if you can get a restraining order just based on him burning the books, if the threat on the house was a long time ago -- but I think you have to at least check it out.

Do you have a Plan B letter drafted at all?


Thinking about you, sending you strength.

-AmI.

Rin,

Ok all of this advice is good but you seem very conflicted about what to do.

Right now make a short term plan unitl you come up with a long term plan. Plan A, Plan B, or Plan D.

Is there anywhere you can go tonight your kid and stay away from him. A friend, relative or a hotel.

Just get away until you can clear your head?

Right now since you don't have the long term plan in place you need a short term plan for your safety.

I would go down to the police station and let them know that you feel as though you may be in danger. Let them know what happened. You may not get a restraining order but if something happens in the future they will have it in writing already.

You have done so well but this is something he needs to take ownership of.

Good luck my thoughts are with you.

I SOOOO agree with this that Hurting says:


I'm thinking that you do need a COOLING OFF PERIOD.

I'm thinking that you need to calm this down.

Isn't he used to you going to his level..with the ultimatums, etc? That makes a tantruming child worse.

No more trying to talk or reason with him.

Like the other person said, come up with a PLAN.

It's your call, Rin, but I don't even think you need to call the police or to get a restraining order YET. He burned some books and THREATENED to burn down the house...TYPICAL ALIEN WS BEHAVIOR..just like Orchids's WH..just like my WH..we've seen them in action....

As Hurting says, you must be the sane one and come up with A PLAN....A PLAN OF YOUR OWN....about your life..not about what you want HIM TO DO OR SAY...

What are YOU going to do??

Rin - he has already destroyed personal property to enforce a threat.

You need to file a report, even if you don't believe in your wildest imaginations that he would ever hurt you.

He is threatening. He has moved from Passive Aggression to full blown aggression.

Plan B with Restraining Order as backup to move him out NOW!