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KaylaAndy #1732850 10/02/06 03:39 PM
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Having spoken with my laywer in reagarding restainting orders...he said it was pointless...and the onlt way I can get him out of the house is if I file for D and have a partition for his removal...

I have examined all of my options right after d-day...


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
techie #1732851 10/02/06 03:40 PM
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Rin,

Listen and repeat, for clarity.

"You feel I punish you almost everyday for your A."

"You believe I talk down to you."

"You're not sure if you like me or not. You see me as serious, not as fun as before, is that correct?"

Can you see, Rin, how this is reality...his perception, not FACT? He can feel or believe anything...moon is green cheese...makes it his reality, not your doing.

Hold to this. Orchid, AmI, HL, Mimi are all right on. File a report on his threat to burn down the house. Find evidence he really did burn your books (I'm not sure I believe him. He's a liar right now.)

This goes to reverse babble, too...Orchid, would this be the same?

"I agree. You feel punished almost everyday for your A."

"You're right. You believe you're talked down to."

"I understand. You're not sure if you like your wife or not. You see me as taking my marriage seriously, not as fun as before, is that correct?"

Remind yourself...you're not alone. Your WH feels talked down to by MANY others...at work and elsewhere. He feels punished by others. He FEARS others, too...not just you.

This really helped me.

Do not fight his perceptions...just make DARN sure you aren't believing them for one dang gum second!!!!

Justifications from entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

Stay centered, Rin. Do not volunteer one single O&H statement, one word at all...until you know exactly what you are going to do. Plan B isn't about losing your love...it is saving it...saving your marriage. It is getting out of the way of HIS consequences, your choice to NOT attempt to control anything...it is a boundary enforcement.

We're with you all the way...I know you know that...get straight in your head, go for clarity...not to react, but to act...that's your goal.

You can do this.

LA

KaylaAndy #1732852 10/02/06 03:40 PM
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This stuff about PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVENESS is starting to bug me.

It is not a part of the MB SYSTEM so, if not anything else, it is CONFUSING to those of us that don't understand what you are talking about.

I don't see Rin's H as being any different than any other WS. So are all WSes Passive Aggressive? Are all WSes sometimes AGGRESSIVE? This pretty much is true for anyone.

Sorry for the TJ..

Back to the program at hand...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1732853 10/02/06 03:57 PM
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Rin,

Then what is your plan?

I would sincerely suggest you seperate yourself from the situation for a while.

Let your H know that one of you needs to stay away from the home. Let him know it will be you in necessary.

Take your kid and go somewhere for the week. Give yourself time to figure this thing out.

It really just makes sense.

That will give you time to sort through everything in a safe environment.

Look there were plenty of women on this planet, heck men as well, that have uttered the words my spouse would never hurt me.

The very first suspect in a homicide is always the spouse. This is for good reason.

Rin to be honest I never thought my FWW would ever raise a hand to me or hit me. She did and I had her thrown in jail for it.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
mimi_here #1732854 10/02/06 04:06 PM
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Mimi - Alcoholism isn't part of the MB System either. But the MB system cannot work and will not work unless and until the Passive/Aggressive behaviour, or the alcoholism, or the drug addiction, or the sex addiction is addressed and gotten rid of.

We all know this.

All WS employ P/A behaviour to conceal their affairs, but some are way, way worse than others and continue use it as an all-out weapon to control and punish the BS - NOT just as a juvenile tactic to hide their cheating. Mine was one of these and so are the spouses of a lot of good people posting here.

If you are confused about what P/A behaviour actually is, read the info I posted just today in the P/A thread over on In Recovery.

Fortunately, your FWS was not P/A, but for those of us who do have such spouses the knowledge of what to do about P/A behaviour is as helpful to us as Al-Anon is to the spouses of alcoholics.

Would you tell the BS of an alcoholic that a recommendation to go to Al-Anon "bugs you" because Al-Anon is not part of the MB system?

I spent *six years* struggling with the MB system and got nowhere. After I got a clear handle on P/A tactics and what to do about them, things turned around almost completely in *two weeks* and *now* the MB system works for us. He's going to Las Vegas for a business conference tomorrow and insisted that I go with him.

Understand now?
Mulan


Me, BW
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Quote
I know, and this is not lying to myself...after thirteen year, I KNOW this man will not hurt ME...if is not in his belief system...HE WILL damage property.

I CAN swear to YOU...he lays ONE HAND on ME to INTENTIONALLY hurt ME and HE WILL BE SLAPPED WITH CHARGES and there will be no plan B...straight to PLAN D!

There's another way to work this out...I have faith...

I just calling a friend of mine that works with H to find the number for the employee asst. program to find a IC...MC

I'm waiting on the email now!


Take a look at the standards [low] and boundaries [none barring physical assault by which point..it's too late isn't it?] being applied here...look at the disclaimers... and ask yourself...


Am I in a fog?

Is this really your choice for yourself?

For your children?

Do you think what you wrote above is reflective of emotional health and self respect?

noodle #1732856 10/02/06 04:28 PM
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Thanks to all that responsed...I'm not going to explain what I was trying to do by talking to WH. from what I've read...

I don't know what to say really...

I feel pushed by some...he does one crazy, stupid thing trying to prove his point...

I burned all of his porn magazines ...13 yrs. ago...this is not usually behavior for either one of us...

What am I doing...UGH!

I can not do plan b...I can not get him out of the house...he will not leave...

i would have to file for D and petition for his removal...

i also will not see him this afternoon or tonight...he is working...i may even request that he not come home until we leave tomorrow...

right now, the man is calm cool and collected...i chose to speak to WH because of my options...no ultimatums!

How is an O&H statement an ultimatums? I did not make a SD...either stop your As or I'm leaving...I said to be very honest I am considering a separation...there's not LSA here...it's D or nothing!

I don't want a D...and frankly I don't want to put that money out...one I/we DON"T HAVE IT!

I know where I am right now...no swimming head...no shock...thanks to all of you!

I didn't take any of HIS statements personally, back in the day, yes I would have...He's not going to drag me down...I will not allow him...he most certainly is not a threat to me or the kids physical safety!

I have it documented on MB...I will have my evidence, SHOULD I need it.

Plan B may be in the works down the line, but this one is about ME...not explaining myself clear enough...

We even discussed changing his cell phone number at lunch! Calmly b/c I told him I would not talk to him the way he was talking to me...a few cusswords but he did better...

I'm frustrated trying to explain myself. I should have wrote everything out like I normally do.

I quit! ME...in a fog...NO! AND I WOULD NOY ENDANGER MY KIDS!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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Rin:

I understand what you were trying to do by talking to your H. I agree that you don't need to explain. Good speaking up for yourself. I like that.

As I said in a previous post, I think burning the books is typical, crazy WS behavior. My H and I did worse. We had a physical fight for heavens sakes...I'm certainly not bragging about this...I am very much embarassed by my attempt to attack him. I'm saying that I understand. This stuff is a TRAGEDY..A HORROR STORY for most if not all of us.

Quote
I didn't take any of HIS statements personally, back in the day, yes I would have...He's not going to drag me down...I will not allow him...he most certainly is not a threat to me or the kids physical safety!


Great! I believe you, Rin.

Quote
We even discussed changing his cell phone number at lunch! Calmly b/c I told him I would not talk to him the way he was talking to me...a few cusswords but he did better...


Again, GREAT!! Good stuff!!

Last edited by mimi1254; 10/02/06 05:24 PM.

I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
mimi_here #1732858 10/02/06 05:16 PM
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Thank you MIMI! (((((((mimi))))))))

Thank you for understanding! I feel that he did it out of impulse, not knowing how to handle what I just told him.
And it's true I am considering it. I'm working on the monthly expenses, children schedule...I will go to my Al-anon meeting tomorrow and Thurs.

I will also not see him for as long as I can...I will replace the books that I feel are important. Really the two I will miss is SAA and PA man.

well, I've killed enough time that by the time I get home, WH will not be there. I need to go get F from the sitter's.

Thanks again to everyone! I do appreciate your support and insights. I did consider EVERYONE'S POV!

OH, LA, I heard you! Thank you!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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Let him know that he needs to replace them pronto, or plan on heating the dog house - he's in for a cold winter. He needs to understand it is HIS responsibility to de-escalate this if he wants improvement - it's NOT yours.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
KaylaAndy #1732860 10/02/06 05:53 PM
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{{{{{{{RIN}}}}}}}

I'll be thinking about you tonight! Hang in there, I have faith in you! You'll find something that will work for you. You're so smart and strong, and cared about!

Hang in there.

-AmI.

AmIok #1732861 10/02/06 08:04 PM
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Hi, KA & AmI,

Well, I ended up passing up the house and WH had not left yet. F and I were going to Books-a-million, and WH got in the lane to follow me. SO, I pulled over. WH asked "What you hadn't planned on going home? "

I said "No, I planned on going to books-a-million like I wanted to last night."

He just looked at me. I said I got off work 15 mins. late b/c they were fixing our phones.

The rest of the brief conversation is pointless...he said I could be mad as long as I wanted. I pulled off and TMed him "U just pushed me more. No, I'm no mad!

Let me explain...At the time, I had my grandpa's obitary in one of the books, marking my place. I was very close with my grandpa and I thought he had burned it too. My grandpa pass on Good Friday of this year. I got home and found it...he burned SAA, HNHN, Living with a PA Man, and Self Matters. LOL...he did not burn I Cherish You...the condensded version of HNHN!

WH called me...basically it's me overreacting and I'm not going to tell him...blah blah blah...He burned the books b/c it made him feel better at the time...blah blah blah...I said I hope that you are going to replace them...He said blah blah, I didn't replace his porn mags...I did...over the years...he said fine I will over the yrs....blah blah blah...I'm this..blah...I'm that...


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I bought a new book "After the A"...when I got home, I collected my evidence in a ziplock! IN case! Then, I came it the house to check which books he burned. I really didn't care at that point about the books, but I was overjoyed when I found MY teasured bookmark!

I see that WH is so fogged out...he thinks nothing but positive things about OW. OF course! I was told to do whatever I needed to do. He's had enough! I said well, I figured we would work it out like the court system would set it up, so we wouldn't have to change anything. BLAH BLAH BLAH...YOU"RE NOT GETTING THE HOUSE. I said what are we going to sell it? NO, YOU'RE NOT GETTING THE HOUSE.

I asked this for a reason...I am going to have to be the one to leave UNLESS I file for D. My laywer says that a restaining order will do no good because my the time the police get here, everything will be over. True! AM I still concerned that he COULD go crazy, if I get a partition to remove him, yes...but that's down the road.

I'm thinking that I will have to move with the kids! In order to cut down on the confusion. What other choices do I have?

Earlier today, I thought I could figure out something...now, I'm not go sure...lol, I'm the one who needs to take a step back and look at the sitch!

Sure there was a different way of handling the whole day...but it's how I felt I had to handle it! F got to see what NOT to do and said that we shouldn't treat books like that. He asked why I was digging in the fire, I said for memories. F said "poor mom."

I just have to figure out how to leave, how to get into plan b...I don't want to borrow money I can't afford to repay it. What are my option? I can't stay with family or friends...

I have to go on...the fog is to thick...


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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You replaced.... his porn magazines?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
i dont think you should ever have to apologize for that, and I definately dont think you should ever have to "replace" them. and I'm a GUY <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

you bought the books to help your marriage.
I dont think he bought the porn mags for the same reason <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

PS: yeah, definately sounds like you "talked" too soon with him.

Last edited by techie; 10/02/06 08:18 PM.
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rin,

Quote
I'm the one who needs to take a step back and look at the sitch!

Exactly.

Now he burned self help books and you burned porn. Ok those could be self help books too I guess. LOL.

Stop looking at the books and look at the underlying issues. What do the books represent?

Ok you figure that out. I have no idea. LOL.

If I were you I would talk to a different lawyer. Quite frankly you are in a great position now. H is on nights you are on days. How hard would it be to avoid him?

Forget about leaving work 15 minutes late leave a little later and avoid him all together for now if you need the space.

Look in an M there is room for 2 people and 2 people only. He is not respecting that and therefor not respecting you or your boundries.

So if you think about it you can avoid him right now without even trying to hard.

Listen you do not deserve to be treated like this. He needs to understand that.

So here you are a strong confident women who can fix anything and you are worried.

You will do ok no matter what just remember that.

My goal has been to make myself better so in my future relationships I am a healthier happier person. I have always hoped my FWW would be that future relationship. If she isn't though I have learned and will live better because of it. You will too.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
frognomore #1732864 10/02/06 08:38 PM
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techie-"you bought the books to help your marriage. I dont think he bought the porn mags for the same reason"

Yes, I did replace the magazines. We were only dating at the time...maybe a few months. No, not Med at the time. Yes, I did buy him some when we were M, but I came to my senses one day...refused to watch porn or have anything to do with it!

HL- I hear you. Yes, i can avoid WH easy except in the morning. there will be say an hour to 1 hr 15 mins, but I can stay in the bathroom getting ready or whatever...

Is it silent treatment when you just don't talk, not out of punishment? I'm not trying to punish him...i'm a little disappointed about the books but that's no big deal.

LMAO I burn porn, WH burns self-help...what would be the middle ground...romance novels? HL, you are too funny some days!

Just to let everyone know, I feel good...I'm not sad, meloncale (sp) or anything like that...I still have my doubts as to what I NEED to do for ME...but I think that I need to take care of some money...

I'm not sure but I think today he found my expense sheet with everything on it and the kids' schedule. It was flipped around b/t the sofa and the chair where my PA book was. Do I care, NO! As a matter of fact, I'm going to continue to work on it.

Another just in case, I need it! I think I may need to be still and quiet, like LA said, no O&H statements.

Let's see what happens...and I think I might go to my dad's this weekend. We'll see!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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I do want to say that the phase that keeps running through my head is:

Do you want to be M, or do you want to be right?

Why would that be in my head right now?


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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(((Rin)))
You are still taking your AD's aren't you? This has been a crazy rollercoaster the kind with loop-de-loops!


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
ChaCha #1732867 10/02/06 08:55 PM
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HI, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> !How are you? Yes, I've been sure to take them every night!

I'm feeling good and I've got my meeting tomorrow night!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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Oh, would I be wrong/dishonest if I didn't tell WH that I found my grandpa's obitary? It's one of those nice color one. My grandma had it made for all of us!

He said burning that was an accident.


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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Quote
Do you want to be M, or do you want to be right?

Why would that be in my head right now?

Self doubt. There is a difference between dropping something when being right or wrong has no bearing on the health of your M.

I use another sniff test. I like sniff tests. I am a scatch and sniff kind of guy. You know I have always liked the way my FWW smells. Kinda wierd. I like to smell my FWW. Geez I need a little help I think.

Ok back to the sniff test. Is what is bothering me going to be important in six months? Ok the book part no probably not. We all get a little crazy everyonce in a while and in the grand scheme of life bygones etc. Geez my FWW is gone and I want to smell her now. Oh where was I. Ok so being right about the stuff that isn't going to matter in six months who cares. BUT the big stuff needs to be addressed because if it isn't it might get worse in six months. IE the OW's.

You know I have been thinking. Yes that smell is me thinking. Could the FWH done that to make you angry about something then the original thing you were mad about?

Just a thought. Sniff that out and see if it may be valid. Like Tucan Sam says follow your nose it always knows.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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