I will repeat this and be very clear about what I am saying.

If a person is involved with another and they have committed to one another that they will be exclusive... it si wrong for any person to interject themselves into that situation. It cannot be any more simple than that. If I know someone has committed to another... I will not interfere or try to do so until and if their situation changes. It is wrong to help another person deceive someone... and if you think LO did not support that... go back and read his posts where he clearly says that TA's daughter did nothing wrong here....

she gets a pass.

The alternative date partner has a duty to not help someone deceive someone else. If it is above board and everyone is aware of what is happening... then they have no reason to not go for it... but that was not and is not the case here. I NEVER argued here that it was wrong if it was done above board... but that is not what this thread is about... nor is it what was being clearly stated by LO.



Yes, I understand the difference between the two.... do you? I see the difference in that I could wait to see how a relationship turns out and choose to get involved should it end. What I am giving the SAME protected status is a persons word. According to LO... it is fair game until the "I do's!!!!" That would make anytime iup until the day of the wedding fair game.... he may have backed off that point a bit... but that is how this started.

I hope that clears up my position.

I suggest that you go back and read LO's words from the beginning of this thread.

LO's own words from his first post on the thread.

when I was 14 my best friend 'stole' my boyfriend.

believe me, that had NOTHING on my FWS having an affair.

totally totally different

Here he contradicts himself.... saying if they claim exclusivity... they are unfaithful if they choose to be with another....




Contradicts himelf in the same post.

this is my definition of commitment as well

marriage = "I do"

so, in essence, I believe the sticking point to this arguement is the different definitions of what makes a commitment

a so-called "commited relationship" such as living together is a RENTERS agreement ... it just does not come up to my standards ...

I'd set the bar higher, not lower ~~~> I go for that "until death do us part" business <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pep

I agree with him.

Right up until you are married you are unmarried.

The time to change your mind is BEFORE "I do".

If we make those committments prematurely..we ignore/avoid/evade good and strong clues/intuitions/red flags and coast on trajectory into MARRIAGES that are not wise/premature/whathaveyou.

I don't see in his post that he says lying or conniving is fine..but that as the couple is not married..TAs DD is not an OW..he'll have to correct me if I assume too much.

no kidding.

we have all been through that. that has nothing to do with what we are discussing. I can tell you just the opposite.. I was married and cheated on and engaged and cheated on... the engaged one was a 1000 x worse.

That is not the issue here. The issue is not one for children... but should an adult be able to count on the word of another adult... should they be able to count on the integrity of another person to not interfere in something they know is a committed relationship.

I fail to see the relevence of your post.

well, Pep... as I said before... that makes for some very interesting bachelor parties... because according to that mindset... i could get laid at my BP and have no responsibility to my FUTURE bride. heck, we were not committed.

You know, you're right MEDC...I did back off on my original position...

But after thinking about it, I shouldn't have.

Even a woman who is engaged might garner my fancy...and I might even tell her she does...

It's HER choice from there. HE doesn't "own" her yet...

Sorry...I don't think we'll see eye to elbow on this...

YES ... and for me a commited relationship is marriage ... nothing less

pep

I still disagree wholeheartedly with that stance. That up until you say "I do" you are not committed.

My DD's current b/f (and the one she will say "I do" to) watched her with the SOB but DID NOT make a move until it was all definitely off. He talked to her as a friend but didn't make his (romantic) intentions clear until she was completely free.

I see them as a totally exclusive committed relationship and they aren't even engaged yet.

My sister has been with her (male) partner for 15 years and I also see that as a totally exclusive committed relationship.

oaky... so when you daughter comes crying to you a few years after she is married when she finds out her H had gotten BJ's and screwed right before the wedding.. tell her it's no big deal.

You know, I've tried to be sensitive to those folks whose committed relationships carry the equivalency of marriage (e.g. gay or common law couples), but I can see that all I've done is muddy things.

COMMITTED = MARRIED = I DO

there

heck... why don't you all go over to messedups thread and tell his W that she is concerned for no reason. I mean she just found out about his A well after they were married. Time to let her know it really shouldn't bother her because they were not committed.

And I would ask him what the heck he was waiting for...

If she was worth it, he should've pursued her with passion.

There's nothing noble in giving up a woman you want to someone you can better...

And Pat and Froz.

Why do think I've not been over there?

Why so emotionally reactive about this MEDC?

I understand your position is different from mine ... but I do not feel the need to undermine your character ...

Kiwi agrees with you, I do not ... it's OK

I think, perhaps, this hurts you personally because you are not married ... but, it's simply a fact ... you can call yourself a commited relationship if you want to ... it's OOOO KKKK ....

but in my mind

you are not married because you are not married ... but, since I don't matter in your world so it's still ... OKAY!

Your situation, your dilemma, your world has not been altered because I define commitment differently than you .... relax

Pep

well, LO... hopefully your daughter doesn't deal with the same thing cause darling daddy will have to say to her... hey... he was just having fun... stop worrying about him getting laid the day before you said I do... it was just some woman pursuing him... he wasn't committed to you... now get over it. Very classy position you take here LO.

??? was this a question or something else?

I kept waiting for you to edit a complete thought ...

Pep