I originally put this in the recovery area of this forum. But I thought I should put it in here too, as it is where the whole story is easily found under Larrygeorge's thread.

My Husband has been posting on here as Larrygeorge. or rather in different threads as that name. Anyway I am not 100% on board with the MB guidelines yet.

I do have a question about the idea of waiting the affair out. How can you be sure that there will be anything left of you when the affair runs its course. If I have to wait for this to peeter out of its own accord, there will be nothing left of me to be married too!!

This is pulling away at me and little bits are being dislodged all the time. So if I just stand by and watch him in effect self destruct and destroy our marriage and my own self image, what the h*ll is the point? All we will be left with is the knowledge that I am telling the truth, he lied to me, he is falling in love with my youngest sister, and he isnt a part of reality, and I feel like the biggest waste of space and love imaginable. Not actualy what sounds like a good basis of a marriage that will work for the next 50 years.

I got married because things were better with him than without him. He gave me the stregnth to become more me, if that makes sence. Now his actions are slowly tearing that apart. So what the heck will I be left with? A marriage on paper and not much else. No self respect, no real partnership and a whole lot of bitterness and resentment. It certainly doenst make me want to sign on. Any input would be great. Thanks in advance

DC,

Welcome to MB. If u r the BS, please read Surviving an Affair along with His Needs/Her Needs. Both are by Dr. Harley.

Both you and your H should take the EN questionnaire.

These steps will answer some of your questions. As for a recovery plan, it 1st starts with personal recovery then marital recovery. The later requires both to participate equally. The 1st c/b done by each of you separately then together. That will lay the foundation for a good M recovery.

I recommend u both call Steve and setup home phone couseling. If your H won't do it, then you start. If you'd rather, find an MC in your area familar with MB principals. Either it is worth the investment into your M to see if it is truly worth saving or not.

Don't make life changing decisions while in an emotional state of mind & heart.

Pray for a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Expect the WS to move forward, then backwards a bit. You s/b prepared and ready to move forward with or w/o him. That is what plan A will help you achieve.

Should your H decide to get his act together and join you in recovery, then he will have his own set of improvements to make then work with you together to recover the M.

Hope this helps....it's a start. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

clouds,

I was trying to remember larrygeorge's post.....and I looked them up. He's the guy whose infatuated with your younger sister....but right now...the affair is one sided. I know how devastating this is.....especially when it's a beloved sister. It makes the betrayal twice as painful....and I'm so sorry. (((((((((clouds))))))))))


Nobody is expecting you to "wait out" the affair....however, now that your husband has admitted his feelings (before ever acting on them....which is a very good sign btw) there may be a period of withdrawal. However, that's not going to happen if he continues to be around her for family functions. That's going to be a hard choice for you. You don't want to punish your sister because she is unaware of all this....at the same time....you're going to have to face the fact that his feelings are unlikely to go away if there's still contact. How are you planning on handling that. Dawlin, I'm not saying it's "fair" I know it isn't!! I am saying that you've got a really difficult choice to make....but if it were me.....I'd see my family without my husband for a good year. It's going to be awkward, and you may need to let your parents know why it's happening....but I do think that's the most prudent thing.

I think you also have some things that you need to do to save your marriage. It sounds to me, like you didn't do alot of recreational things with your husband....that you were okay with him spending his most enjoyable time with your sister. So you two need to change that dynamic and start spending those 15 hours a week together doing things that fill each other's needs.


Marriage building has very little to do with "waiting" and I suggest you do NOT just stand by and self destruct. Work on your own self image.....get active....look your best....those things will benefit you no matter what he does.


Okay.....well why do you feel like a big waste of space? Seems to me....if you have a healthy view of yourself, he's the one who would look like wasted space at this point....yanno? He can't MAKE you feel bad about yourself. What I heard when I read your husband's posts were that perhaps your sister gave him something he really needed from you.....attention, admiration, time. Most of us here.....didn't get the option of working on our marriages BEFORE the affair got physical.


It does make sense....but it also speaks of someone who is giving away their power. If he becomes the thing that builds you up or tears you down.....you become dependent on him for your own self image. Do you think that's good for you? If you can't live without him, or feel good about yourself without him.....it's going to be hard for you to do what you need to do, to rebuild your marriage.


Why not consider going to one of the MB weekends? Please DO read "Surving an Affair" because it will give you some of the hope and understanding that you desperately need.

Clouds....you are very welcome here. Fill in some information for us okay? You say he "lied"....could you talk about that? How did you find out? What recovery plan do you have in mind. Many marriages survive infidelity....but fail to recover....so putting a good plan in place to protect the marriage is essential.

Keep posting!!

Thank you so much starfish and orchid for responding. Your input is warmly appreciated. I have been slowly reading the info on this site as the days go by. SOme of it I can understand and apprecaite, a few of the others, I am just not on board with. I guess thats the same as anything.

Now to "fill in the information" as star fish asked <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We are both planning on going into psychotherapy very shortly. We were told that intake could not happen until September so now its just a waiting game. Incredibly frustrating as you can imagine.

I dont think I can not have WH (is that what his abbreviation would be at this point, I am not sure?) not be around my family. We live within a few blocks from eachother, we go to the same church. And plus my family is struggling with my mothers chemo treatments, my Dad works out of town a few weeks every month. So I would feel that I would not only be denying my sister the brother she admires, but my mother and father a person they can depend on on helping them through this mind bogglingly difficult time.

I am not sure if I can explain this well but what my heart feels is that he has damaged so much he CAN NOT be allowed to wreck my family of origin. I need to keep one thing ok. I am thinking I may need to give a general heads up to my mom that my marriage is going through some difficulties without going into specifics. The specifics would hurt her too much and she has got other things on her mind right now. I dont want him ever ever ot be in the same room, alone with my sister, and he knows and agrees with that. I dont want him picking her up from work if my MOm asks us to, I can do it now or it can't be done at all. I can't let him be with her, even in a group without me there. But thats as far as I am willing to go at this point.

They know we are both going to therapy soon but that is due to some other issues that have reared their incredibly ugly head lattely. But they think that 'we' are ok.

The thing that is really killing me about this whole situation, is that WH works from home, 75% of the time we eat breakfast, lunch and dinner alone together, I work part time so we are ALLWAYS together. The only thing is when I am at home, he doesnt want to be with me. There is work to do then apparenly. But when I am off he runs off to go have fun. Desperatly frustrating. And for so long now he has been throwing road blocks up to me joining him or intiating fun stuff to do. We travel together, alone once a month pretty much, we do all shopping, banking, dog walking, volunteering together. We go to church together, we go to a movie a month together, we go out for dinner several times a week together, we cook together every few weeks, we visit friends together. We spend on average I am sure over 15 hours a week together, alone and another 25 within a group of people, or with one of us distracted. I mean, how much more can he need!?

Yesterday he told me he wants to rent office space and found a good place that was well priced and as for his specific office (he told me excitedly) it can fit his desk, chair and a futon. I started laughing and he didnt get what I thought was so funny. Latter it dawned on him that maybe he wasnt the best candidate to have a office, especially one with a freaking futon! We both ahad a bit of a bitter laugh at that point.

Now about giving away my power. I certainly dont think I am doing that. I can see how the way I explained it I really did sound a bit of a door mat. But what I mean is he was my soft place to fall. Because of the safe place he gave me I was able, in the past four years we have been in a serious relationship together, to reach out and widen my world into university, into my job, into my family, into bad things that happened in my past. It was not because he said or did anything, but that i could trust him to be there, love me and listen to me and believe in me. Now I dont. Period. So that soft place to fall is gone. It may sound ridiculous that it 'only' a EA and I am that hurt and untrusting now, especially that he told me. Well I am struggling with that in realtion to the extream emotions I am feeling.

Let me also say that this man I married has the worst possible timming. In June I uncovered some terrible memories of what men have done to me physically in my past as a small girl and then young woman. The person that attacked me when I was a young lady was the same age (approximately) as my husabnd is now, and I was the same age as my sister when I was attacked. SO I am dealing with a whole host of trust issues. He and I are really suffering under the comparison between his feeling and the aweful thing that happened to me.

I guess one last comment, how they heck am I subposed to want to spend time with him, admire him and be caring towards him when he destroyed the last little shred of trust or belief I had in men? I am trying, I really am. Some times I shock myself how 'normal' I can act. I can put on a happy, supportive wife face and keep on plugging. I can listen to him tell me that he is hurting because my sister hasnt notices he isnt around as much anymore. he tells me he hurts ebcause he thinks he is in love with her. I pat his hand, say it must be really painful and that I can see why he is in such pain. I can hug him and wipe his tears away and swallow what I want to do. I am actually really proud of myself and in awe that I am still standing. Annnnnd helping him. I guess the human spirit can withstand pretty much anything.
Thanks and sorry this is so long.

Because of the potential that you know is there.

Separate what he is right now from what he was and can be again.

Did your vows include, "....in good times and in bad."?

clouds,

Wow!!....I'm so glad you posted all that you did....because it sure cleared up some misconceptions I had and has really really helped me to understand where you are. I'm in awe that you're still standing too chere!! yikes! You sure don't sound like a doormat in this post....that's for sure! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks so much for helping me understand your situation better.

I know you aren't on board about all the concepts....feel free to talk about your skepticism okay? Be specific about what parts don't seem to work for you.

I have to run out for a bit.....my little sis is in a nursing home close by and I need to see her. I have some thoughts about your situation, and plan to reply at length....so check back this afternoon, and in the meantime....I'm sure others will offer some words of wisdom.

For now (((((((((((((((((((clouds))))))))))))))))))
(((((((((((((((((((clouds))))))))))))))))))

We'll try to be (kinda) your soft spot to fall for a little while. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am wondering what you guys think about me telling my mom whats going on. Not everything obviously but should I tell her that he was close to straying? She has so much on her plate right now, but I would (selfishly) really like to have a big hug from her and someone who is in my cornor. Man that sounds prima donna-ish. i really need to stop feeling sorry for myself.

dark clouds,

Thank you so much starfish and orchid for responding. Your input is warmly appreciated. I have been slowly reading the info on this site as the days go by. SOme of it I can understand and apprecaite, a few of the others, I am just not on board with. I guess thats the same as anything.

Talk a little about the things you don't agree with. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now to "fill in the information" as star fish asked We are both planning on going into psychotherapy very shortly. We were told that intake could not happen until September so now its just a waiting game. Incredibly frustrating as you can imagine.

Yes....very....but September is not too far away....though I'm sure it FEELS like it!! Hope you found a good pro-marriage counselor.

I dont think I can not have WH (is that what his abbreviation would be at this point, I am not sure?)

Yep....that's what I'd use.

not be around my family. We live within a few blocks from eachother, we go to the same church. And plus my family is struggling with my mothers chemo treatments, my Dad works out of town a few weeks every month. So I would feel that I would not only be denying my sister the brother she admires, but my mother and father a person they can depend on on helping them through this mind bogglingly difficult time.

I hate to say it clouds.....and it's NOT FAIR....but you're going to have to decide what you need more: help for your family or recovery of your marriage. Your sister can survive the loss of your husband. Your family would never want to sacrifice your own happiness in order to help them right now.

I am not sure if I can explain this well but what my heart feels is that he has damaged so much he CAN NOT be allowed to wreck my family of origin. I need to keep one thing ok.

Hasn't he really already done that? How comfortable are you now with him around your family? You can't protect him from the consequences of his own actions....and unfortunately....neither can you offer much protection for your family if you want to recover your marriage. I'll explain later....okay?

I am thinking I may need to give a general heads up to my mom that my marriage is going through some difficulties without going into specifics. The specifics would hurt her too much and she has got other things on her mind right now.

I nursed my own mother through cancer....was holding her hand when she died. During the months prior to her death....we sorted through many difficult things from the past....including past sexual abuse at the hands of my step father. Clouds....I really do understand where you are. Be honest to your mother. Yes, it will hurt....and yes....she's got alot on her plate....but she's going to know something is wrong and protecting people from the truth just makes you a party to lies. There is nothing about affairs that benefits from dishonesty or protection. It's one of the dynamics that even most counselors don't understand. The truth is the only thing that will give your husband the accountability and motivation he needs to wake up and smell the cappucino.

I dont want him ever ever ot be in the same room, alone with my sister, and he knows and agrees with that.

And what will that do????? All that does is make sure he can't escalate the physical....it does NOTHING to stop the emotional connection if he's still seeing her and fantasizing about her. He can't go through withdrawal. What we know about infatuation.....is that it stimulates the same reward system of the brain that crack cocain does....and it's just about as addictive. Your plan doesn't address that dynamic....it just prolongs it. Do you think a crack addict can get clean if he just has a little bit of crack?

I dont want him picking her up from work if my MOm asks us to, I can do it now or it can't be done at all. I can't let him be with her, even in a group without me there. But thats as far as I am willing to go at this point.

What a horrid future you have planned for yourself....being the affair police. Look realistically about how much anguish you have planned for yourself. Your husband cannot have contact with your family anymore....that's drastic and it's difficult....but that's the only way to get his biochemistry back to normal....otherwise....you live with the suspicion and anxiety every single time they're in the room together. You'll find yourself watching them to see if they make contact....you'll notice every blush and casual touch. Your sister, in her ignorance about his feelings will try to recapture the closeness....she'll be confused. You don't deserve to have to deal with this....and I'm so sorry that you do....but please please be realistic about the ramifications of pretending nothing is really wrong.

They know we are both going to therapy soon but that is due to some other issues that have reared their incredibly ugly head lattely. But they think that 'we' are ok.

Again....I think the truth is preferable for the above mentioned reasons.

The thing that is really killing me about this whole situation, is that WH works from home, 75% of the time we eat breakfast, lunch and dinner alone together, I work part time so we are ALLWAYS together. The only thing is when I am at home, he doesnt want to be with me. There is work to do then apparenly. But when I am off he runs off to go have fun. Desperatly frustrating. And for so long now he has been throwing road blocks up to me joining him or intiating fun stuff to do. We travel together, alone once a month pretty much, we do all shopping, banking, dog walking, volunteering together. We go to church together, we go to a movie a month together, we go out for dinner several times a week together, we cook together every few weeks, we visit friends together. We spend on average I am sure over 15 hours a week together, alone and another 25 within a group of people, or with one of us distracted. I mean, how much more can he need!?

Yep....he's been organizing his time to maximize the amount of time he spends with your sister. In the weeks and months to come....if he's serious about rebuilding your marriage....all of that will change. Give it time to work clouds.....you don't have to decide what to do RIGHT NOW. He has been honest....and that's an excellent start. You can't recapture of the innocence and trust of your old marriage....but you might be surprised at how good the new marriage can be. It will be different....but that doesn't have to mean worse.

Yesterday he told me he wants to rent office space and found a good place that was well priced and as for his specific office (he told me excitedly) it can fit his desk, chair and a futon. I started laughing and he didnt get what I thought was so funny. Latter it dawned on him that maybe he wasnt the best candidate to have a office, especially one with a freaking futon! We both ahad a bit of a bitter laugh at that point.

No private office space right now....sorry. I'm not laughing....I think he's looking for another way of spending time away from you....and frankly....he has to earn your trust first. Don't agree to that. No futons either LOL.

Now about giving away my power. I certainly dont think I am doing that. I can see how the way I explained it I really did sound a bit of a door mat. But what I mean is he was my soft place to fall. Because of the safe place he gave me I was able, in the past four years we have been in a serious relationship together, to reach out and widen my world into university, into my job, into my family, into bad things that happened in my past. It was not because he said or did anything, but that i could trust him to be there, love me and listen to me and believe in me. Now I dont. Period. So that soft place to fall is gone. It may sound ridiculous that it 'only' a EA and I am that hurt and untrusting now, especially that he told me. Well I am struggling with that in realtion to the extream emotions I am feeling.

I think you are very vulnerable and the past sexual abuse surely plays into that. Your husband said on his thread that he is afraid you're on the verge of a nervous breakdown....so how fragile are you? I don't think you're a doormat...but I still think you have given away alot of your own power. Hopefully, the counseling with help with that. Hang in there chere!!

Let me also say that this man I married has the worst possible timming. In June I uncovered some terrible memories of what men have done to me physically in my past as a small girl and then young woman. The person that attacked me when I was a young lady was the same age (approximately) as my husabnd is now, and I was the same age as my sister when I was attacked. SO I am dealing with a whole host of trust issues. He and I are really suffering under the comparison between his feeling and the aweful thing that happened to me.

triggers triggers....yes....I understand. Feeling like a victim is going to trap you in that role though....so please consider doing some empowering things while you wait for counseling. Exercise is great. Meditation. Art. Feed your spirit, your mind and your body to find your personal strength and leave victimhood behind.

I guess one last comment, how they heck am I subposed to want to spend time with him, admire him and be caring towards him when he destroyed the last little shred of trust or belief I had in men?

clouds....you get to grieve!! Right now, the best you might be able to do is go through the motions....without much heart in it. That's okay!!

I am trying, I really am.

That's as much as anyone can expect from you.....so just let that be okay with you too.

Some times I shock myself how 'normal' I can act. I can put on a happy, supportive wife face and keep on plugging.

Normalcy will continue to creep in as you rebuild your marriage.

I can listen to him tell me that he is hurting because my sister hasnt notices he isnt around as much anymore. he tells me he hurts ebcause he thinks he is in love with her. I pat his hand, say it must be really painful and that I can see why he is in such pain. I can hug him and wipe his tears away and swallow what I want to do. I am actually really proud of myself and in awe that I am still standing. Annnnnd helping him. I guess the human spirit can withstand pretty much anything.
Thanks and sorry this is so long.

I always admire women who can help their husbands go through withdrawal. He sounds like a selfish baby to me LOL....I have to keep myself from slapping him!! I'm not sure how much patience I'd have in that regard. And btw....when he does that....it's perfectly okay to be honest about your feelings too!! "H, watching you cry over my sister....hurts me to my very core. It doesn't do alot for my admiration for you either. I appreciate your honesty....but you need to know how very painful this is for me."

Keep posting....it takes a while for threads to pick up steam. If this falls off the page....bump it back up with a little update.

I'll check in later!!

star*

bumping to get more help for dc

I'm often blunt ...

Here's what I would do .... call a family meeting. Any person over the age of 18 is welcome .. and tell all of them all at one time.

Things will be [color:"red"] HOT [/color] for awhile ... but this slow boil is far worse, in my opinion.

he'll stop the insanity when he feels the heat.

PLUS ... in MY opinion, your family deserves a clear [color:"green"] warning [/color] that the man you married has weak boundaries.

[color:"red"] This is NOT advice ... just me saying what I would do if I were in the same dilemma. [/color]

Pep

star*fish ;
I think I am going to use the same format that you used in your responce. It made it very easy to follow, thanks!


star*fish
Talk a little about the things you don't agree with.


Me
mainly the fact that the only reason people have affairs is that their EN are not being met. there is alot more to a persons choices than their en's. theres family history, mental illness, culture, morals, past relationship history, abuse ect. As well I am struggling to understand the waiting for the affair to end in PA's. There seems to be alot of people who are waiting for their spouces (very patiently and filled with love) to stop putting their private parts where they don't belong. I am not sure if thats a sign of strength or madness. But then when I apply it to me, well there doesnt seem much more that you could do rather than wait it out.


Star*fish
I hate to say it clouds.....and it's NOT FAIR....but you're going to have to decide what you need more: help for your family or recovery of your marriage. Your sister can survive the loss of your husband. Your family would never want to sacrifice your own happiness in order to help them right now.


Me
I know that my sister will survive the loss of my husband. Frankly she will be better for it. She will be more able to go out and start, new, healthy appropriate relationships. I think she knows that and thats why she hasnt tried to contact my H in weeks.
The other thing about my family survivng with the loss of my H's assitance, I think the real thing is if I am introspective enough, is that I wont be able to survive within my family as it would stand if he was excommunicated. Never mind the fact that that goes against EVERYTHING I was taught about family as a child. "Family is family forever." a whole never leave a man behind sort of thing. I am really struggling with that as you can imagine.
How long would his exile have to be? Forever, for the next year, for the next few weeks.
My highest EN is by far my family responsability need as well as recreation, conversation and really all the other ones <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> So by him not being there for my family will really really upset me. So what do I do about that?


Star*fish
No private office space right now....sorry. I'm not laughing....I think he's looking for another way of spending time away from you....and frankly....he has to earn your trust first. Don't agree to that. No futons either LOL.


Me
Well I totaly agree with you. he wont as you can imagine. there will be a issue with this I am sure. but there it is I am just not comfortable with it. We can reasses it in a few months. Thing is his work is drving me insane being in the house. So maybe I jsut shot my self in the foot in one area, protecting my marriage in another. And I think iw ill forever band futon. (besides the fact, I think they are tacky hehe.)


Star*fish
so how fragile are you? I don't think you're a doormat...but I still think you have given away alot of your own power. Hopefully, the counseling with help with that. Hang in there chere!!


Me
well until about two das ago ridiculously fragile. Crisis fragile. Cant stop crying fragile. but with the help of the surviors forum I am on and this one I am managing. My head is still above the parapet and I am ok in the fire right now but I KNOW I wil;l have to be on guard. I dont want depression to ge the better of me. Been there once and hated it, didnt bother with the postcard. I do notice I am sleeping alot, eating alot. But am functioning to go to work and spend time with my niece and friends. So thats good. I am not 100% in any of those activities and my memory is shot to h*ll as is my sence of time. Not particularily handy.


Star*fish
"H, watching you cry over my sister....hurts me to my very core. It doesn't do alot for my admiration for you either. I appreciate your honesty....but you need to know how very painful this is for me."


Me
That would send him over the edge. I can tell how guilty he is feeling. the real sick thing is I feel guilty about him feeling guilty, like I am making him feel that way. Yuck. I can't handle a "I hate myself, I am worthless, please leave me" tirade/hissyfit right now. Then I might just freak out at him.



Now for an incident that was very interesting yesterday. I can hear him rewritting our history together and arguments we had in the past. (I was warned of that by reading this site) It freaked me out though actually hearing him do that. It was soemthing almost out of a horror movie. History was being rewritten in front of my eyes. What should I do about that?

Just a little tidbit. I have been keeping the top of our wedding cake in our freezer for two years now. I know we should have eaten it on our first anniversary, but we forgot. And then I kept waiting for another special occasion, and we just kept forgetting. LOL so now this thing is nasty. Really really gross. So I pulled it out a few days ago and let it sit on my kitchen table. Its wrapped in about a hundred layers of plastic and foil.But I couldnt through it out! So there is sat. Until yesterday. He had gone to a meeting, I had run to wlamart and when we got home i was looking at it. And said, I think that thing stinks. He agreed. (so gross that I left it that long, but there you are) I just couldnt through it out. So he said, lets unwrap it. I think he was wondering what shade of green it would be. But no. there it was as perfectly beautiful as it was on the day we were married. There was even the part where my mom had stole a bit of icing. Three perfect sugar flowers on top and pearls around the bottom and delicate ribbons of icing floating down. So lovely. I started bawling. I pulled the flowers off and told him to toss it. I couldn't even watch.
He was worried but did it, and I cried for a while afterward. It hurt to think of how far we are from that day two years ago. Its not all that long ago but a million miles away. The last time I had set eyes on it he loved me more than anything. Now he doesnt. He loves soemone else. Infact aperson who was a junior bridesmaid of mine. Wow thats painful. OK I think thats enough of ripping my heart out for one session.

Thanks all, and especially thank you to star*fish. It means alot. I really do appreciate it.

Oh and peperband, this was 'only' and emotional affair, would you still do that? Thanks for your input.

[color:"green"] [/color] [color:"green"] [/color] [color:"green"] [/color] [color:"green"] [/color] [color:"green"] [/color]

argh!! I tried to do the colours thing like pepperband did to show who is star*fish and who is me. Sorry guys!!!

clouds,

There are three easy ways to differentiate your writing from someone else's. One is with a bold text, colored text, or quoted text. Each of them is fairly easy to do. If you leave out the spaces I've added so you can see them, this is how you achieve those effects:

For bold type: [ b ] in front of entered typed or pasted text you want to bold...then end with [ / b ]

For colored text: [color:" r e d"] (or any color you want) in front, then type or paste the text you want in color...then end with [ / color]

For quoted text: [ q u o t e ] in front, type or paste quoted text, then [ / q u o t e]

Hope that helps. I'm still going to respond to your post.....and I hope others will join in too.

So he read my last post and is upset that I think my sister is better off never being around him again. Hmmm I wonder why I would say that? Maybe I mean that never being in a relationship as twisted as it was again would be best. not really surprising is it. He is so upset. So sad. its weird I dont want him like this.

Not surprising he wants to still see her....but not realistic either if he expects the marriage to heal. This is a message for your husband larrygeorge:

lg,

Is it your love for your wife that makes you angry about not seeing your SIL? Or is it your selfish desire for something that's destroying your marriage? Like any addiction....only complete separation from your "drug" will save your marriage. Don't you think your wife has enough to deal with right now with her mother fighting cancer, and her past abuse issues, without having to wonder, worry, have anxiety about what you're thinking when you're around her sister?

Your wife is in the uneviable position of loving both you and her sister....she not only needs to take a stand to protect her marriage....she's also protecting her sister....because frankly, you're a threat to her happiness as well as a threat to her family. Her sister is MUCH better off never seeing you again. She needs her BIL falling in love with her....about as much as she needs a hole in the head.

Nobody is going to be particularly sympathetic about you wanting to see the sister. The ability to turn back the clock and make this a normal relationship between you and this teenager is unrealistic, selfish and no wife in her right mind would tolerate it. Your relationship with your wife's sister is over....or I fear your marriage is over.

Everyone here....will advise your wife to insist on reasonable conditions/accountability to protect the marriage....and I know of no one who wouldn't advise that all contact has to end with her sister. That's because every single day.....we have the opportunity to see the folly of folks who think a "little" contact will be okay. It's a recipe for disaster....trust me....I've been a very long time and I've seen that scenario repeated over and over with disastrous results. If you're serious about saving your marriage....you'll understand the logic, get through withdrawal, recommit and reinvest in your marriage, treat your wife with the honor she deserves, and end all contact with her sister....forever. If you can't do that....please let her know now so she doesn't waste alot of time...but any fantasy that you have that this will be one big happy family again while you covet your SIL....is just that....fantasy.

I have a great deal of respect that you were able to face this issue before you took the next step....but now keep doing the right thing!! You have a huge opportunity to avoid disaster here.....don't waste it. The close relationship you had with your SIL has been stripped of it's innocence and there's no way to recapture that. Allow your SIL to grow up and spend time with a man whose really available to her and won't break her family's heart....get out and stay out of her life.

thanks star*fish. Now I need to have a clear picture of what this looks like. (Man, I am really having a had time accepting all this change so quickly.) So a year from now LG is still not subposed to see her, talk to her ect. What if she makes contact? "hey LG, dad took the car and I need a ride to work/university/friend house. Dad said he would be back by now, but I am gonna be late. Could you help?" Should his responce be the same a year from now? When will we know its safe for him to be arround her? This really really really sucks. I am sure you know this allready. But man does it ever. I mean we were two crazy kids in love a year ago and now everything feels like its falling apart. Nuts.

ah chere....well that brings up the next icky part of this whole tragedy...your sister....and how to handle honesty to her in a way that will protect her and your marriage.

Your sister may be innocent of the depth of your husband's feelings for her....but realistically she enjoys his attention and probably encourages him to have a close relationship with her because he's been so attentive, helpful and flattering. She has probably innocently/or not so innocently encouraged his attentions because of how it makes her feel. That doesn't mean she is a party to the betrayal....but it still must end. Do NOT tell your sister how your husband feels about her.....that would be very risky. However, you must tell your sister that the amount of time and energy that is going into his relationship with her is harming your marriage, that he's neglecting you, and that he won't be having contact with her anymore so that the two of you can concentrate on building intimacy and time together. Respectfully request that she arranges rides or recreational companionship with friends and folks her own age. This much honesty is essential to keep the stuff you just described from happening. Please do it right away.

((((((((((((((clouds))))))))))))))))

Hey Star*fish, I need to digest your info. I cant see how a forever split will work. I cant wrap my brain arround that. Christmas, weddings, family vacations, baptisms, birthdays. He will have to miss it all, or she can't come? Never again for dinner at my parents on Sunday, eating ribs and laughing together. Its all gone? Really? When we have children she wont be able to come over and visit? For forever? arrrrghhhhhhhhh!

This really hurts. We used to have movie nights at our house. No sister slumber parties. No girl days here with all the girl cousins because he might come home and see her? No more him comming and watching me do agility with our dogs because she runs ther dogs in the same team?

I showed him your post. He told me that he would rather not be in the family at all then be in this half shell of a family. His own family is pretty much non-existant. I keep wondering if this all happened because he never had a relationship with a sibling who didnt beat him. So when she was there she treated him like a little sister does, and now here we are.

But it hurt alot to hear him say he would leave us all rather than in 2 years still not being allowed to come over to dinner at my moms or go to christmas together ect.
He keeps saying why he is so hurt about her is that he thought they had a friendship but now that she has a car she hasnt called, msn'd him or anything. She has made absolutly no contact. she asked me once it he was all right and I said yeah but really busy with work. She accepted that at face value. I think that she might know subconciously that the relationship was unhealthy and that she is distancing herself from it, filling her time with friends ect.

I told wh that the relationship was unhealthy, it has to die in an unhealthy way, you cant expect anything different really. But if it dies well then maybe their next relationship will be healthy as a brother and sister.
thanks for you guidance star*fish I feel we are less alone.

dc

am I overreacting? I keep have this thought running through my head of "Oh its only and EA." Its like I am constantly forgetting how much pain I am in and then it comes back with a whomp. Does make sense?

We went to a book store this afternoon to buy some books, we were looking for Dr. harley's but couldnt find it. So we bought "After the Affair" by Janice Abrahms Spring. Most of it is dealing with PA, and we bought "10 Lessons to Transform Your Marriage" by John M. Gottman and Julie Schwartz Gottman. Have any of you read them?

LG admmitted to me yesterday he is in love with my sister. Ouch. And that his is working really hard to get her out of his thoughts. Its hard becasue I cant block those thoughts. they just have to run its course.
Anywayuntil latter
dc

DC - After the affair is very good. Don't be fooled - an EA is every bit as damaging as a PA