No Committed, you have it totally wrong. I can assure you that it was NOT easy for me to confess to this board BECAUSE I’ve became so emotionally invested to this place (more than I ever wanted to). Also, because I’ve become emotionally so invested here, I felt it was important to be honest and open with these board and confessed my relapse… And I did that while I knew I would be attacked and condemned by some posters. If it was so easy to confess and come clean with an anonymous board, then 2OfAKind could have easily done the same...no problem.

This horse was already beaten to death many times… Anyway, you know the reason I never confessed to OM’s W was because my H did not want me to and still don’t… And I’m not willing to do that without my H’s enthusiastic agreement and therefore became the source of his unhappiness and make him feel betrayed by me again. So, if that makes me a person without integrity and honesty in your eyes…let it be so. You are entitled to your own opinion.

Mel, you said:


And this shocks the HECK out of me!!!

He was obviously wayward in the timeframe that he was posting here. It doesn't matter what DAY he posted what...he was carrying on in an emotional/internet cyber affair during the time he was posting here. It doesn't matter if he was posting advice the SAME DAY or not...it matters that his mindset was what it was when he was posting. And you sort of allude to that...but then you go on to say that his advice was VALUABLE during that same time frame.

Is it acceptable for a guest speaker to show up drunk at an AA meeting and give advice? Is his advice to 'stay sober' as credible then?

And the fact that this is being minimized AMAZES me. This almost sounds like a complete role-reversal from the stance I've seen from a LOT of the long time 'pro' posters on this site.

Is this some kind of joke or prank?

When it comes to evaluating the quality of advice, I think it matters rather a lot whether the advice-giver is practicing what they preach, or presenting themselves honestly.

If someone offers sage-sounding advice on how to get out of drug addiction, from a position of being a recovered and clean addict themselves, then a lot of the value of that advice is the fact that it worked. If, in truth, it didn't work, and the advice-giver is still a closet user, then the advice is seriously devalued.

Someone who makes many colourful posts about the importance of NC and boundaries, but who later transgresses those boundaries himself, has no business presenting himself as Mr. Clean. Telling us 'this is how I did it, and it worked', is a lie, if in fact it didn't work.

TA

TA, I think the advice pretty much stands on its own merit. If someone says something RIGHT, is it somehow rendered WRONG because of some personal factor of the speaker? Of course not.

We have had many people who have slipped up around here, doesn't mean that every word they spoke is invalidated.

Owl, of course it matters! This is the standard she is asking us to apply to her so why wouldn't it apply to 2Oak? I would like to know FOR A FACT if 2Oak was actually IN AN AFFAIR on that very day. Let's apply the same standard to him she wants applied to herself. [she didn't post for the "2 days" she had her affair]

edited because I thought I was replying to Suzet.

Owl, I agree that mindset does matter, but so does SUZET's, who works with the OM, has had repeated contacts for years and a recent reprisal of her affair. She is hardly in any position to dismiss anyone's posts as "hypocritical" because he did the same.

No it’s not the same standard Mel because I did not post advice and “pearls of wisdom” to these boards while I was involved in an EA. Whether 2OfAKind was in contact or not with his A-partner on the days he made those posts is irrelevant BECAUSE his EA was still ongoing (he did not put a stop to it), he was unrepentant about it and he kept it SECRET. What you’re actually saying is that its OKAY for a person whose ACTIVELY and SECRETLY involved in an EA to post here, give advice, preach to others and dished out “pearls of wisdom” on days he is NOT in contact with his A-partner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> To say that is the same as saying that a UNREPENTANT rapist can post advise and “pearls of wisdom” against raping to people as long as he is not raping a person on THAT specific days he's making the posts! Ridiculous! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Such hypocritical advise and “pearls” coming from a unrepentant rapist will indeed be of ZERO value to me…

And you haven’t yet explained to me WHY you’ve said to Jen that I was posting advice to others here while I was having her affair Mel… Where on earth was I having an A while posting advice to others??? You know that is not true. As I’ve said, the only time the EA was resumed (in spite of previous attempts from OM to contact me) was last year June with my relapse…and I already told you that I did not post here during that time and first came clean with my H and this board. Please explain. As I’ve said, you can’t make such untrue and ridiculous statements without being challenged on it.

Mrs W was comparing LB’ing and DJ’ing with your spouse with committing EMOTIONAL ADULTERY and being SECRETIVE about it and that is a total ridiculous comparison Mel. Can you really not see that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />I also can’t belief to what lengths of ridiculousness you will go to try and “win” an argument and try and proof a ridiculous point Mel. It’s silly. I would actually laugh about it if this conversation didn’t upset and shocked me so much! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I completely agree.

Sorry Suzet, but I see this as major hair splitting to dismiss 2Oaks posts altogether but accept yours because you didn't happen to post for "those 2 days." Let's say you didn't come here and confess, would that invalidate every post you made BEFORE that happened? I don't think so. That is just a ridiculous level of hairsplitting, IMO, especially when you have had relapses yourself and numerous contacts.

C'mon, Suzet.

I would be defending the validity of your GOOD posts just as I am doing today with 2Oak. I don't defend what he did, but he did have some good posts.

I applaud you for coming here and coming clean, I really do. But I am not prepared to dismiss any of your posts for the simple fact that you relapsed. Even after your relapse, I still referred to your many excellent posts. [withdrawal is a very good one] And still do!

In short, while I condemn what 2OAK did, I am sure not prepared to dismiss his posts on that basis. As far as I am concerned, they stand on their own merit as would anyone elses.

2 Oak's posts still have value for me, I still link to them when I think they are relevant

Suzet's posts still have value for me, I still link to them when I think they are relevant.

Both are in my Notable Post thread.

AMEN!

dat's dat

Well, YOU are the one who started this with your silly and ridiculous argument Mel so I can’t understand why this conversation is so “unbelievable” to you now… As I’ve said, you can’t make such statements without being challenged on it. You know me better than that.

Hey...I thought you were the one that climbed the moral high horse and asked pep to delete anything to do with the 2oak because you don't like him.

If that wasn't enough...YOU bump the "favorite MBer Thread" which SPECIFICALLY was about 2oak..for everyone to see it and comment on "your" take of the situation. Youse was on a witch hunt with that tactic.

Why would you want someone's words deleted, and someone else's value in a poster's words questioned, simply because YOU don't find value in them?

Shoot...that makes no sense...and especially to blame someone else for starting this discussion! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You started this ball in motion. Ownership....take a little ownership...sheesh...

committed

Mel, I agree with you up to a point. After all, lots of doctors give good healthy-living advice, while living unhealthily themselves, just as many excellent therapists are a mess in their own lives. It's entirely possible that people can see what third parties 'should' do, without being able to implement that in their own life.

Lots of posters here have slipped up - we know that because they've come back and told us. They tell us, they take the flack, they lay bare their error and they usually apologise. By coming clean, they show us the vulnerable places and they help us to understand the recovery process a little better. And when they advise others, we can pounce on all the places where they're not being honest with themselves.

2OAK slipped up - sure. He did exactly what he'd berated and sneered at so many others for doing - stepped repeatedly over boundaries because it was exciting.

But he didn't come back to tell us that.

Coming back to confess would have been honest and might have gotten him some much-needed help.

Instead, he waited a few years and came back with more of the same fire-and-brimstone message.

2OAK's repeated message was that the consequences of infidelity were colossal for all concerned. Clearly, though, not too colossal not to risk everything again a few years down the line, in a quiet place where he thought he could keep it from our ears.

When it comes to it, he wasn't even actually married.


TA

Committed, this is not the reason why I've bumped the thread. I've bumped it for the purpose of asking if anyone knows if 2OfAKind ever came clean with anyone on these boards regarding his behaviour because I was wondering about it. That's all. Then Mel followed that up by asking me what I have against hypocricy and then I responded on her question and then the argument started from there. So no, actually it's NOT me who started the argument. I was accused by her of being hypocritical and dishonest with these boards before e.g. posting advice to others here while I was having an affair and as a result I defended my position because it's not true.

I already explained this on my other thread. Please go back and read.

Thanks Pep and Mel that you both still see value in my posts after my history and relapse. It’s good to hear and means a lot...

Committed, this is not the reason why I've bumped the thread. I've bumped it for the purpose of asking if anyone knows if 2OfAKind ever came clean with anyone on these boards regarding his behaviour because I was wondering about it. That's all.

Well...I'm not buying that. It was tooooo convenient and timed just right.

Also...it appears that you are unwilling to give 2oak...or wanting anyone else to give 2oak...what you want from pepper and mel. Can you not see that?

committed

I would be interested in getting 2ofakind's side of the story if he could come back and share honestly.

Another poster I'd like to hear from, who also left us with a questionable reputation, is Coach35something or other...who shared that whole 'story' about his wife attacking/biting him...he left in a hurry because of some scandal of which I can't even recall the deals anymore unless I do a search or someone reminds me. I know he was writing (erotica) short stories on some website but I am not sure that is whether that was the straw that broke the camel's back....was he a swinger or something???

Trix:

Coach's last post:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2767888

I corresponded with him via email a few times after that, but haven't heard from him in quite a while now.

I believed him, but who knows? I could just be naive.

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2long,

Me too as far as believing him...he seemed believable or I am just gullible.

His descriptions of things sure did paint some pictures.

I just did a google search, and it's interesting that his MB profile came up first.

I wonder what coach3530 means, because there's clearly some guy out there who's in2 swapping that uses that name (ETA: but the pic2re isn't of the coach we knew).

Also, there's at least one other link 2 the "real" coach3530 - the one we know - showing he's a member of an online erotic stories website.

I guess the thing that seems oddest 2 me about that whole experience here, is that he seemed 2 offer such good advice most of the time, but when it came 2 his own sitch, he seemed 2 be so easily sucked back in2 "high drama." Maybe his life was that dramatic. I know mine can be - if I let it.

-ol' 2long

I did the google search after I posted last and found the same sites as you 2. Could he be posting as an 18 yr old from London?...odd that it is the same name...coincidence?