Starting another thread from earlier one re: confronting WH's ongoing lying with maintaining contact w/ow.

Thanks to all who replied with support.

Latest:
Remained loving to WH after he came home. OW called H to complain about me calling her. Stayed calm. Told him I love him with all my heart and that his continued lying hurt.

Went to our last MC. Didn't get muc direction from MC other than we need to figure out our next move. WH told MC he no longer wants to me married to me despite spending the last two days wonderfully without argument and be loving together.

After MC on the drive home, told WH, he was free. Told him I loved him very much but I can't make him stay. He seemed conflicted. He said he loves me and always will. Based on the feedback and replies I've gotten from several vets on MB, I told WH that he was free to go and that I can't stop him from lying to me, and that if he wanted to move in with the OW it was best for him to move out sooner.

H started to look for places to move to. I'm also having a reaallly hard time. I've tried to be loving, but I'm also having a hard time. I know I gotta move on. Can't make him stay no matter how loving I want to be. Anyone out there who just told their WS to go.

BW 46 had a 2+yr A w/a prev co-worker
WH 44
No kids
Married 3 yrs
D-day 2/1/06 Kicked H out that night; moved in w/his married buddy; Exposed A
Did plan A & B, did the NC email w/CC to me
Re-exposed A to both sides
4/25/06 WH moved back home with weekly MC; went on a Mexican cruise 2 wks later.

Star,

It is best to get the WS out of your home. Very hard realization for a BS to come to but seems like u r done with your plan A changes and he is still a WS.

Can you make it financially w/o him? Will he pay what he should to the upkeep of his family? Even a WS should be kept to the financial obligations.

If that is taken care of you will find relief with the WS gone. Expect him to babble and really learn what life is w/o his family.

Remember if he is a real WS, he will hate the life he is living and blame you for being ejected from his home. When he does, what will your response be?

L.

Once you get him out from under your roof, it will be time to haste your way along to Plan B.

You will enjoy the peace, and he will not enjoy tasting life without his Lily. (OWs sour quickly. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />)

Thanks Orchid & Neak,

This is the reprieve I needed to hear. Financially, I'll be fine. WH & I talked about MSA (marital separation agreement). He said he wants a D. Told WH to move out beginning of next month. He's been looking on Craigslist.

I've been off work since 1/05 due to a work injury that may require second surgery next month. I receive workman's comp which is far less than if I were working. H paid all housing expenses while I handle utilities on some months. H agreed to pay most of the first mortgage, about $2000.00 in lieu of a spousal support for the next 1-1/2 years (half of our 3 yr M), and then sign off the house to me. I'd pay the 2nd mortgage and utilities once he moves out. H is about to inherit $200-300K from his late mother. So he'll be fine. This is probably one reason why he's been antsy about wanting a D because we live in California, community property. A spouse cannot claim any part of an inheritence unless the spouse receiving it changes title of ownership by buying something.

I tried to go dark tonight when he went to bed. But, he came out and wondered what was going on. I tried to quietly put my suitcase in the car but caught me. He automatically assumed I was going to go and meet someone. Hmmm? Imagine that. So H retrieved my suitcase to search. It was empty. He checked my toiletrie and cosmetic bags. Nothing. Then he checked my clothes. Once he was done, I asked, "are you satisfied?" He said maybe. Then he started interrogating me! So I blasted him, "Look at the f***** clothes I packed! Do you honestly think that those are the kind of clothes I would bring IF I were going to cheat on you?" He said, "Knowing you, no. But since you were going to take off without telling, so why couldn't you tell me where you were going?" I said because I didn't decide until that moment that I needed to get away from here and you!" He smirkly replied, "hmmmm". So I said, "rather than assume, why don't you ASK!"

We ended up talking,mostly his fog tall. Why he's been unhappy and everything that I didn't do and how he doesn't think it will wokr with us, blah.blah,blah. I would give him the "babble talk" (can't remember who to credit this) I ended not going. So, here I am at 3:15 in the morining, in my beautiful 1932 Spanish home, unhappy, miserable, emotionally exhausted, all cried out with puffy eyes, 20 pounds less since D-day, but hopeful for peaceful future without WH.

I'm glad I re-posted. I will reiterate to him tomorrow that he needs to move out.

Get a good attorney and get everything you can.

He doesn't deserve any consideration from you.

WAT

I have seen three and decided on one reputable. Unfortunately, since we live in a no fault state, there's not much I can go after "legally". WH can have as many mistresses up his ying-yang, it still won't make a difference. Everything is divided in half. I have a retirement account that I've been building for years, he doesn't which he is entitled to half of half of our M. I have 2 cars cars, one is paid for, he has just bought a new one. I need two cars for work since I am based in San Francisco and live in southern Cal.

The only thing I want from him is the house which he has agreed to pay majority of the mortgage which I wouldn't be able to do even with my jot. If we were to sell it, we wouldn't get much after commissions and closing costs.

So I've looked at the different avenues. The MSA is the way to go without lining the pockets of lawyers.

A liars promise is like a fart in a hurricaine ... has no lasting effect.

do NOT take his "word" for anything... if his lips are moving ... he's lying.

Pep

whatever he's promising ... have him write it DOWN ... liquor him up ... get him all cozy ... tell him you'll be his friend forever ... whatever it takes ... but get his stoopid promises in writing!

We understand that very well.

As Pep suggests, desperate people will sacrifice to get to their goal.

A WS's fog can have its advantages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

All settlements are open to negotiation. Don't be willing and even. Be cagey. Hem and haw. This is becoming a business transaction, not a moral even-steven. Go for the best deal.

Play to his haste.

You have something he desperately wants > his "freedom."

Sell it to him.

He's willing to pay BIG TIME for it, I bet.

JMHO

WAT

Pep! That is too funny! Thanks for the laughter. REally needed this morning considering I haven't had much sleep. Let me dust off my belly dancing costume! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WH just left for work. We had a short 10 minute talk. Here's how it went:

Me: It's interesting how you reacted last night when you found out I was about to take off, as if, I were going to cheat on you.

WH: Well, there is a lot of mistrust.

Me: Yes, that's usually what happens when a spouse cheats and have an A.

WH: Hmmmm...(this is his international language of being hit w/a 2x4. He goes to his car to retrieve his notes for work)

Me: Do you have time to talk b4 U go to work?

WH: Yes, let me turn off the computer.

Me: I think it's best that the sooner you move out the better.

WH: OK....(silence)...I'm working on that.

Me: I love you, but I need you to leave. You are not the husband I married. The husband I married was respectful and honest. The husband I have in front of me is NOT respectful and honest. The husband I have disrespects his wife and marriage. The husband I have disrespected his marriage vows. I want the husband who respects himself. The husband I have does not respect himself. He has proven that. I don't want the old marriage because the old marriage is a husband who has a mistress. I want the husband without the mistress. So, until you can find the husband who can respect the marriage and his wife without a mistress, and I know he's in there somewhere, I don't want him in our home.

WH: Hmmmm....(after each sentence)

ME: I love you very much and I will miss you. I will be here if and when you want to talk.

WH: Hmmmm....Thank you. I love you, too and will miss you.

Me: Once you leave, unless it is an emergency with regards to the house, you will not hear from me.

WH: Hmmmmmm....

Me: You're free to live out your fantasy with your mistress.

WH: Hmmmm.... (Looks at the time) Can we talk more when I get back.

Me: Sure. We can discuss the MSA then.

WH: OK....(gathers his stuff, walks to the door) I'll see you later this afternoon. I love you.

Me: Me too.

Alright, where's my firing squad with feedbacks? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Star - what is your current direction?

Where do you want to get?

In mariage recovery or with the best possible divorce settlement?

WAT

One big difference in my situation is that I had a long marriage with 3 kids.

With no kids and being married just a few years, I have to wonder if he is a keeper...his track record, so far, isn't great....not that he can't turn around....there just isn't as much history and shared kids to add to the draw. He may be a renter...you may want to read Harley's 'Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders'.

If he was married before, do you know what caused his divorce?

There is a big difference between letting him go and kicking him out.

I think accepting that he might leave and that he leaving is beneficial to you is a major step. I think you should stick to him leaving if the affair is ongoing. By all means make this very clear. But don’t push him away...

Look – if you want the best shot of ending his infidelity and regaining the man you married then you should be Plan A big time! Look your best, build up the LB and make sure that he sees what he is risking. The entire time standing firm on HIS ability to choose the marriage or the mistress. You can finish the separation later – once he moves out. Use the rest of the month to deposit in the LB enabling you to do a killer Plan B.

So you no longer initiate talk about him leaving. You no longer initiate talk about the separation. If he mentions it you just confirm the dates and always let him know that it is HIS choice. He knows both are coming and what he needs now are reminders of the stakes and the consequences. So many of his actions indicate he has strong feelings for you and these feelings have to be forced to the forefront.

Don’t tell him in advance you are going to Plan B. Just let him experience it.

Regarding the separation. You are making a major mistake in trying to do it “nice”. If you two end up divorced and if there is no future for your relationship then two years down the track there will be minimal contact between you but you will still be paying bills. There is no such thing as an “amicable divorce”. Any money spent on a lawyer now will pay dividends.

Dr. Harley says:


For the full letter and response, CLICK HERE.

Can't deny that I still love tha ******. BUT, I've lost trust and respect for him. Mentally, let him go.


Get better physically, emotionally and mentally and move on without him. I'm exhasuted. H has so much deep issues that no matter how much it is discussed and disected, he has difficulty looking at the whole picture.


Part of me has given up and I'd be lying if I'm not looking at the bets possible divorce settlement. We've pretty much verbalized what would be on the MSA.

I realize that what I want may seem unclear. But this is where my head is at moment.

Thanks Bigger,

I've done Plan A before, and don't want to be in it again. However, I will continue to be civil, loving towards him. I'm always dressed and well put together especially when we go out to the point that guys young enough to be my sons follow me with their eyes that gives my WH pride. At 46, I still get ID'd at Trader Joe's when I buy wine.


This, I can and will do.


There are certain conditions I want written in the MSA.

Prior to me finding out that WH is still deep in his A, H frequently spoke of D. Last night, after some soul searching, I asked if it helped him any. He said, he was able to sort things out and some he's still thinking about (guessing D). Here's that talk:

WH: I think I figure out what I can do to make U happy but Im not sure if its good enough to make me happy.

Me: What will make you happy?

WH: (Long pause, silence). I need to feel accepted, not judged, listened to.

Me: (Waiting for him to finish. He looks at me) I hear and understand what you are saying. But can you be more specific? Let's start with acceptance?

WH: I realize I'm being general...I need to feel accepted. I feel like I'm always the one who has to change. Yeah, I know I did some crappy stuff in the beginning and I know I had to change me. But I'm always changing!

Me: What is it that you want me to change?

WH: Be more accepting.

Me: Be more specific....

WH: (Long pause. Shaking his head. Unable to answer).

Me: How am I supposed to change something that I don't know that is broken?!

WH: Hmmmmm....(nodding in agreement)

Me: And it doesn't help our M if U wait years later that I should've changed something that you can't even tell me what it is that I need to change....As for acceptance, I've accepted the fact the you and I are different. I see the beauty in it. When you told me about the A, I STILL accepted you for what has happened and AM still accepting the fact that our M is flawed, that you and are flawed. We ALL are!

WH: Hmmmmmmm...(yep, I know....folks)

The rest? Too tired to remember.

I know I've got a lot of thinking to do. The worthiness of staying is almost as futile as trying to squeeze water out of a rock.

See an attorney tomorrow and direct him to take your H to the cleaners.

Propose a MSA agreement that gives him nothing.

When he balks, tell him he's breaching the marital contract - he won't even try to recover. Why should he walk away with anything? Guilt him.

Do not feel obligated to give him anything.

He may hold his ground and you have to settle for 50/50. This will make it easier for you to feel indifferent towards him.

WAT

Thank goodnes I'm a better negotiator than he is! If it weren't for my financial and some business law background, I was able to negotiate the bank to lower the closings costs on our house. Without my persistence, we would not be a homeowner. So what the f*** am I doing with a guy like him? I'll post the outcome on another thread.

Thanks to all for your replies.