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So Mel...by that reasoning. If a WS comes here looking for help, and you respond in your typical fashion (with litle to no compassion for someone who's done something totally stupid) and leaves the board because they're convinced that all they're going to find here is hostility...causing them to continue the affair...does that make YOUR agenda an "affair promoting" one? Just chiming in to say that I am a FWS that did have Mel posting to me upon my arrival here at MB...In fact, she repeatedly questioned me in "Mel-like-fashion" about Mr. W's feelings about my recontacting OM...Of course, as a WS, she drove me NUTS with that...But guess what Owl, it worked for me...for us...It caused me to FINALLY ask Mr. W how he TRULY felt about my breaking no contact, and it gave him a safe opening to share his feelings with me...It was a MAJOR breakthrough for us and aided us greatly in starting down the recovery path...We will ALWAYS be grateful to Mel for that... A WS/FWS that comes here genuinely seeking help and tools to change themselves will NOT be scared away by someone's words...In fact, those blunt truths are EXACTLY what they need to hear... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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I for one thingk that a WS would stand a much better chance of improving their lot by running into ML upon arrival here and not you Owl. Your approach, while appearing all caring and compassionate is really neither. It is not caring to sit by and watch someone destroy their life and to offer all sorts of enabling commentary.
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Mel-
My position on late term exposure is exactly what I've stated above...please feel free to go back and review my comments on 2BN's and Suzet's threads if you disagree.
You also continue to state "your friend, IWRA". Let's get out of that rut, shall we? I've made my thoughts and position on that whole episode clear. Again, the intent to discredit me by association. Please...refrain from trying to turn this around to that. Note that I've tried to steer this back into a discussion on the topic of this thread...YOU're taking it off of that, not I.
MEDC- Yes, I do see a pattern. Everytime I see someone who has been "ganged up on" by the same team of people and summarily treated horribly by those people, I've tried to step in and turn the conversation from being all about attacking them, and about attacking the problem.
Once again...is it possible to turn this thread BACK to talking about the exposure issue, instead of a series of flames?
With that said, I'm interested in a discussion on the risks of exposure years after. My worry if my wife's affair had turned out differently (had her OM been married, and I didn't expose immediately to the OMW) would have been that raising the issue years later would have resulted in the risk of renewed contact. Personally, I would have exposed to OMW immediately had he been married, because of the effectiveness of both BS's working together to end the affair. But years down the road, I would NOT be comfortable with my wife contacting OMW (had there been one) without my consent. It would have been a violation of trust...a major setback.
Now...if the BS is in AGREEMENT with exposure at that time...it's the best possible thing in the world to do. It makes the OPS aware of what happened, gives them the chance to decide what to do in THEIR marriage, and if they decide to remain married, another ally in preventing any further contact ever.
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I for one thingk that a WS would stand a much better chance of improving their lot by running into ML upon arrival here and not you Owl. Your approach, while appearing all caring and compassionate is really neither. It is not caring to sit by and watch someone destroy their life and to offer all sorts of enabling commentary. Owl... Something to think about... You began posting to IWRA(as this particular persona) somewhere around 3/05...When I asked YOU just last month in 2006 if she had told her husband of her affair, you hadn't a clue...Why not? Did you feel that it was unkind to ask? I just don't see how that EXTREMELY PERTINENT Marriage Building information was NEVER discovered in a 1 year posting relationship... This is NOT an attack on you...But I, as a FWS, am respectfully asking you to think that through... Mrs. W Edited to change 3 yrs. to 1 yr....sorry bout that...no sleep last night...DUH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by MrsWondering; 08/29/06 12:14 PM.
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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MEDC- Yes, I do see a pattern. Everytime I see someone who has been "ganged up on" by the same team of people and summarily treated horribly by those people, I've tried to step in and turn the conversation from being all about attacking them, and about attacking the problem. My point is, you are the one treating them horribly. Your enabling attitude and acceptance of all behaviors most likely drives away more people than those that may actually offer some tough love. At least the approach taken by the "same team of people" that you talk about will facilitate change... yours just enables inaction and therefore no need for change. JMHO.
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MrsW-
Excellent point. If you go back and look on CARDSONLY's thread, you'll note I pushed this issue with IWRA for quite a while, and then she dropped out of site for a while and was emailing with others on the board...apparently 'working things out'.
I lost track as to whether she'd exposed or not (and assumed she had by her coming back to the board) because of the simple fact that the MB website isn't the only thing going on in my life. I review it when I can, and posted here a lot before my job changed, requiring me to focus more on that. Additionally, I stopped posting here as much when my own recovery began to take shape.
By no means do I view telling her H as a small thing.
Please...before you are convinced that I'm only here to stir up trouble...take the time to go back and READ the thread by CARDSONLY, and look at what I repeatedly told Cards, 2BN, and IWRA when she was on there. I posted solid advice here for a good while, but when I finally got tired of seeing how people were treated and started speaking out about it, I became "persona non grata".
Go back and read my posts of a year ago...see what I said then, and compare that to what I say now. Same things...only now my advice is "suspect" because I don't follow the same mantra as the majority here do.
Seriously...go back and read that thread, and my advice to Sysyphus, and others at that time frame. How about to Eagle...to Dazed...to a ton of other folks. Maybe things will make a little more sense then.
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MEDC...EVERYONE...go read the threads I referred to. Do a username search for the people I mentioned.
Then think about what I'm talking about. My method for posting is different...but my goals are the same.
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BTW, IWRA, Rachel... has not exposed to her H. I know that from her.
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Here is a good example on the thread where Owl specifically told IWRA (Mary2005Mary) to tell her husband.Owl
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Re: HELP! WITHDRAWING FROM PAINFUL ONLINE AFFAIR [Re: Mary2005Mary]
#2877641 - 12/05/05 02:46 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Mary-
If you're still receiving emails from him, then you're still in contact. If you're still maintaining a 'secret' email account, then you're still in contact.
I don't mean you any harm or disrespect friend, but you know what I'm gonna say.
You have GOT to break it ALL off. Delete your email accounts that OM is capable of sending emails to. Change your phone number if he knows it, etc... Delete your IM accounts with him as well.
Right now you can't see telling your H the truth...but please trust me and understand that it's GOING to happen at some point...read around on this site and you'll realize that your H WILL know the truth eventually...what matters most is HOW he learns it. If you're honest about wanting to help him and minimize the damage done by your EA, you need to tell him yourself. If he finds out on his own, it's FAR worse. Take it from a man who's been there.
Honestly...I really feel if you want to do your best to make things right, now is your chance. Tell your H the truth about what's been going on. Tell him WHY you want to delete your email and IM accounts, and change your phone #. Tell him how much you regret what you've done. Be honest about missing OM, but at the same time this is your chance to change the focus OFF of OM and onto your H. Helping HIM deal with his hurt/grief will help you get past your own. And at the same time, with HIS help you can make NC stick for real. Not just play at it...but really do it.
Don't come up with 'reasons' why you shouldn't do it...because in the end you know that you're really just rationalizing excuses for yourself not to face the consequences of your actions. (NOT a 2x4...an honest assessment of how most people react in your situation) Don't 'wait' to tell him until the time is better...there is NEVER EVER a good time to hear this...but the best time is when YOU go to HIM for help, instead of him confronting you with the truth.
Thank you for your kind words. I'm not anything special...your H too is capable of dealing with this. Especially if you can support him. It's actually pretty amazing what can happen if you both focus on helping each other more than focusing on how much you're hurting yourself. Take it from a voice of experience on this one.
I hope others can join in on this thread to help you out my friend.
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MEDC- Yes, I do see a pattern. Everytime I see someone who has been "ganged up on" by the same team of people and summarily treated horribly by those people, I've tried to step in and turn the conversation from being all about attacking them, and about attacking the problem. Owl, but IWRA attacked people here for YEARS and promoted her pro-affair agenda and you NEVER saw fit to protect folks from her. You HELPED HER, and numerous other trolls, so it can't be said you were trying to "protect" anyone. You clearly weren't. Instead you came to the defense of board trolls and/or remorseless waywards. [many you defended have been banned for trolling!] Nor were they being "attacked," but spoken to very forthrightly. If they were being "attacked" like you said, the attackers would have been shut down by the mods. They weren't. The trolls you moved to protect were not victims, but rather were here TO victimize others. You simply enabled them. That is your pattern. Owl, does it make you feel good to offer aide and comfort to foggy waywards and trolls? Because I have often wondered what your motivation is for carrying their water. It is not "compassionate" to tell foggy people what they want to hear, so it has to be something else. There is nothing "compassionate" about enabling their agenda. I have really wondered about that. Did it make you feel like a hero when IWRA called you out to her rescue "please help me, Oh Wise Owl!" when her nefarious activities were being challenged over here? Was the ADMIRATION you received the motivation? How did you come to be such an enabler that you can't see beyond some nice words to clearly the see the ugly, filthy, rotton behavior underlying those nice words. What happened, Owl? I ask honestly, because I really want to know.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hey Mel...go read the threads.
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Hey Mel...go read the threads. No thanks. I don't need to read another thread, I have seen plenty enough.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MEDC...EVERYONE...go read the threads I referred to. Do a username search for the people I mentioned.
Then think about what I'm talking about. My method for posting is different...but my goals are the same. Why bother when you have questioned everyone elses motivations... including mine at times. My motivations are to break up A's, to help people heal and to see honesty given to all parties concerned.... I never needed my motivations questioned by you because I chose to take a different tact than you. I tend to be an 'in your face" type of person... I call it like I see it. At least people know where I am coming from at all times. ML is very similar... and in fact she and I butted heads in the past. YOU have questioned motives and intent when it comes to me. Your actions and words... even if it is not all the time... when viewed can be seen as enabling. Just look at some of the people that you supported...they have been banned! They were at best nuts. Yet you can still sit there and think that your handling of those situations was nothing more than you sticking up for people geing "ganged" up on. Perhaps if you didn't question the motivations of the people in the "gang" you would have been able to see these monsters for what they really were.
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Owl...
The point is not that you have never given good advice, or even that you don't use the same approach as others do...I personally like to see a good balance of cheerleaders and hardliners on threads and have taken each approach myself...I believe there is merit to each in conjunction with the other...
Why do feel a need to "protect" adults from the WORDS of other adults? Perhaps instead of using unecessary defense tactics, your good advice could just stand on it's own...I do remember when you posted some good advice, btw...
Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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Mrs W-
Because when you attack the person instead of the problem, they stop listening to your message and only hear the attack. They won't take your advice, because they have no reason to believe that your intent and motivation is to help.
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I cannot believe what I am reading on this site. Now granted, I'm new here and the one in the marriage that had the encounter, but exposing affairs to employers, church members, family members etc.?
That is nothing more than revenge. So, when the spouse is out of work and can't provide for the kids or his/herself what then?
Whatever the indiscretion is, it is between the man and wife not the rest of the world. Even if the situation were reversed and it was my husband who chatted online and kissed someone else, I would never expose that to anyone.
And, involving the children? Wow. I came here looking for help not total destruction.
My husband didn't find out about my encounter, I told him so the nightmare would stop. Lucky for me I guess, it is someone I don't work with and barely know. I have no idea how to contact him anyway and certainly don't know his wife.
So there will be no exposure in this circumstance. I desperately want to work this out with my husband but if he followed the exposure advice on this site, that would be the last thing he ever did in this marriage.
I think the exposure element to this is bad advice. Especially when spouses are put out of work. Who suffers then? The kids do....
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WCS-
Exposure is NOT about attacking anyone. It's about enlisting their aid against the REAL enemy...the AFFAIR.
Affairs are secretive...and thrive in that situation. But by going to others who can help convince the WS to end the affair, you're gaining that much more chance to save the marriage.
In my case, I 'exposed' even tho I knew nothing of MB principles at the time. I went to my family, and hers, asking them to talk with her and help her to see what she was doing.
End result? Turns out my sister had gone through nearly the exact same thing as my wife...she'd had an EA with someone she'd met. And was able to help my wife see that a marriage CAN recover from this. I don't believe my wife would have even considered reconciling if it wasn't for this hope.
The goal is to end the affair...not to gain revenge.
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Mrs W-
Because when you attack the person instead of the problem, they stop listening to your message and only hear the attack. They won't take your advice, because they have no reason to believe that your intent and motivation is to help. But Owl, that is where your advice to the poster would come in...A "good cop/bad cop" approach, if you will... In hindsight, can you see that instead of focusing on IWRA's personal issues by asking her the hard hitting IMPORTANT questions, you allowed yourself to get caught up in some trumped up battles...In doing so, you lost focus on the real WAR...The one on Infidelity...See what I mean? Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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The type of exposure.. such as to a church or employer is to facilitate the end of an A... not when the A has already been disclosed. As far as to family... and A does not only impact a BS and WS... it impacts the entire family. But to be clear, the exposure that you are referencing is to end the A. Now, informing the OP's spouse is another story all together. If you were able to contact that person, you would have a moral obligation to let her know what YOU did to harm her. As far as jobs go... if an A took place in a workplace... a person would need to leave that job to insure NC. So there will be no exposure in this circumstance. I desperately want to work this out with my husband but if he followed the exposure advice on this site, that would be the last thing he ever did in this marriage. BTW, this comes across as very arrogant. You get to drop your panties.. but if your H exposed as recommended here... YOU would leave HIM.... think about that for a minute! Welcome to MBers. I am happy to hear that you have told your H. It is a huge first step in recovery.
Last edited by mkeverydaycnt; 08/29/06 12:43 PM.
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