Owl, but you don't know how anyone will react to a specific approach. That is very arrogant to presume any such thing. But we are not talking about "personal attacks" here. That does not bother you at all. You sat silently by while IWRA called me an "******" and other nasty names and attacked me for years. So, it's not attacks you object to at all. You helped her attack this board for a very long time. So, your "defense" seems to be limited to board trolls and wayward spouses with nefarious agendas.

Wow...Right now, due to little sleep, here is all I can say 'bout that... CLICK HERE!!!

Mrs. W <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, absolutely. It is a tool that is used to break up the affair. Dr. Harley does recommend exposure to the children and to the betrayed spouses in ALL cases, though. Sometimes exposure is necessary to employers, churches, families, etc.

How interesting that you registered TODAY just to bash the concept of exposure! We had another board troll who did the same thing here for YEARS. What an amazing coincidence! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Mrs W- Again, good point. I DID get caught up in that "wrong war". But I'm also sick of seeing this go on and on with it becoming a more and more acceptable practice on this board. LOOK AT THIS THREAD TODAY!!!

I'm done with trying to "defend" myself on this thread, and this board. I'm still impressed with the whole IWRA thing...now it's MY fault? LOL!

Just as the others here, I'll continue to post when/where/what I feel is appropriate. If personal attacks are acceptable and agreeable, then my "endless whining" should be no issue.

Lets get back to the exposure issue, shall we?

Welcome to MB, wecansurvive.

I have a question for you, since this is only your second post and you haven't given us a background to your situation:

Would you please define "encounter"?

exposure of the truth is an UNforgivable offense

but having an affair is ... forgivable

topsy-turvy-world-of-the-affair-circus

>cue music< <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Wecansurvive,

Welcome to MB. Pleased to meet you.

I have a couple of comments and questions regarding some things in your post - for my own clarity and understanding, only.

Encounter. I like that. It’s a new one on me, actually. Good one, too. But I caution you that euphemisms like this are like looking way from someone when lying to them. Don’t play serious poker, wcs. This is a genuine tell.

“That is nothing more than revenge.” No, not at all. Last thing it is. More like strong icky tasting medicine. Note that the wandering spouse (WS) is never comfortable with exposure. Would ruin everything, wouldn’t it? It’s not like the “encounter” ruined anything, is it? Only the exposure ruins stuff…gosh, such logic.

“So, when the spouse is out of work and can't provide for the kids or his/herself what then?”

Perhaps the spouse should have thought of this before “encountering”? You want to escape the natural consequences of your choices, don’t you. You want a get out of jail free card. You knew it would affect your job if found out, yet you did it anyway. So, what do you think should happen now? Everyone just pretend it didn’t?

Actually, the founder of MB, Dr Harley, recommends you quit your job and your whole family move far away now, you know.

“Whatever the indiscretion is, it is between the man and wife not the rest of the world.”

No, not so at all. As a married couple you have duties, responsibilities, and obligations to your spouse, yourself, your children, your extended family, your friends, your church, your community and the community of all marriages. It is an expanding ring of concentric circles. You might find this article an interesting read: http://www.dearpeggy.com/secrets.html

It talks about why the secrecy surrounding affairs is a bad thing for everyone, everywhere, even people not yet born.

“Even if the situation were reversed and it was my husband who chatted online and kissed someone else, I would never expose that to anyone.”

Your choice. But I would suspect that without the learning reinforcement of tangible consequences he would do it again one of these days. Probably in the not too distant future, too.

“And, involving the children? Wow. I came here looking for help not total destruction.”

And you will find help. In many flavors. It’s a veritable smorgasbord of help around here. Like all help though, the harder to swallow and ickier tasting it seems to you the more effective it will be. You need to tear down to the foundation, to the very bedrock, before rebuilding something better. It just looks like destruction. (Well, OK, it often feels, smells and sounds like it too – but it’s necessary for rebuilding correctly.) Exposure is one of these necessary clearing the deck activities prior to rebuilding.

Don’t get confused by exposure discussions on this thread. It was originally addressing very late exposure to the OP’s clueless betrayed spouse long after the affair is over. There are ethical issues involved that do not arise (IMO) when ending an active affair or ensuring no contact when recovering. (I wish we could have stuck with that discussion, but threads wander all over the place all the time on here.)

“I have no idea how to contact him anyway and certainly don't know his wife.” Maybe you should at least put yourself in his wife’s place. You need Pep’s sisterhood lecture.

And what if he is doing this with other women? He did it with you, so he will do it with other women. Does his poor wife deserve some compassion and understanding? Does she deserve to know who, or what, she is married to? Does she deserve choices?

“I desperately want to work this out with my husband but if he followed the exposure advice on this site, that would be the last thing he ever did in this marriage.”

Because why? Because you would leave? So, it’s still all about you, huh. This is a very foggy statement. Maybe he should be the one to decide what he wants. Would it be one of the few times you let him decide what he wants?

“I think the exposure element to this is bad advice. Especially when spouses are put out of work. Who suffers then? The kids do....”

I think the affair element to this is bad conduct. Especially when doing it would result in losing ones job in the first place. Especially when the kids would suffer from it.

When it demonstrated such low regard for your family. When it demonstrates such low regard for your H in the first place.

And, wcs, especially when it demonstrates such low regard for your own self.

Allow me to quote your own first post, wcs: “…from what I've read so far on this site the only way to truly work things out is honesty.”

With everyone, wcs. everyone.


With prayers,

PS: Actually, I smell a rat here. But I’m a trusting sort…convince me otherwise wcs.

penaltybox,

"I appreciate you posting and I hope you don't mind that I used your situation as an example. You have the distinction of knowing exactly what it feels like to find out long after the affair was over because the other wife decided to expose to you (the unknowing OPS in her marriage) 4 years later....and that makes your post particularly relevent to this discussion."

Star*fish
One of the most important concepts I learned is that feelings and perception of someone else are important and relevent. I dismissed my FWW's feelings because they were not mine and we did not speak the same love language. I did not ever consider that her view of our marriage was so much different than my "fantasy world". This inability or lack of desire to see things from another point of view was very harmful. This is why I will not participate in arguing with posters who keep telling me I am wrong. My views are valid because I believe them. It has been hard enough to deal with my new life and new marriage without the additional stress of the type of crap I have been reading here.

So now to answer your questions:



"If I may....can I ask you if you felt you lost some advantages by learning so late? Do you think the benefits are the same in both early and late exposure? Thanks for dropping by."

The wife of the OM found out one week before her divorce that my FWW had been to her house once, when she wasn't home(8 yrs later). Her soon-to-be-exhusband left her for another woman . Her motivation to tell me was pure and simple: revenge. WHY ELSE WOULD SHE HAVE CALLED SEVERAL OTHER TOTALLY UNINVOLVED PEOPLE TO SHARE THE NEWS? It was not for any of the reasons given to break up an affair, check for STD's, prevent another affair,etc. It was payback.

Had this exposure been more timely it would certainly have been much more beneficial. Penaltykill had already made her life more transparent to me and was applying MB principals to insure she would not go down this path again. Finding out when I did caused so much pain. Pain my FWW felt she probably deserved. But my kids didn't. The many , many people that rely on me for their livelihood or healthcare didn't. Of what measureable benefit was there compared to all that was diminished? So that I, the BS, could have a more honest existance? So that my FWW got what she deserved and now instead of suffering in private she gets to suffer 1000x as much in public?


The important point here is that there is no right answer. Unless I divorce and remarry, I don't believe I will ever say I'm glad this happened. I have lost, as well as Penaltykill, far more than I gained. I have learned so much and have come to accept my role in creating the conditions that fostered this atmosphere . In the process, I have lost who and what I thought I was, who and how I perceived my wife, and the loss of my fantasy marriage.

So, was exposure a good thing? I don't know anything anymore . I don't know answers; only questions. What is,is. What was, was. What will be, will be. Advice is a single tool in the decision making process. In the end, everyone must evaluate and answer for the best result in their own situation. I have lost my hubris and would not dare to profess knowing the true path to every destination.


And a request for all:
Did anyone save the brutally upsetting post from the poster Goodgonebad? It was deleted by the mods but I felt explained perfectly how my FWW was targeted by a serial stalker of other women. An example of his honesty in describing how he targeted married women who recently got their bodies back(or those with tatoos or piercings): "Who they going to show this off to? Chubby hubby eating chunky monkey in front of the football game? Painful but there was alot to be learned from his post. Penaltybox

TWELVE pages of post, started by a new user and flamed on by a 2nd new user.

I keep seeing the board distracted by these heady discussions.

I read one new poster a few weeks ago who said 'seems all the big guns are busy discussing MB theory', or somthing to that effect.

If I were I TOW, I'd come here every few weeks and stir the pot, just like this. Bet there are a few TOW's laughing their butts off, right about now. It's a shame - Dru

Oh my,
I really do try to stay out of these threads (I really do .......can't you see how I only come in once it goes on for pages and pages?)
But then I KEEP reading and shazaam........here I am.

Now to the topic that won't Ever go Away
(forgive me if its a bit scatterbrained and not as On Point as some):

First,
As was so rightly brought up earlier (guess NO one really reads):

The Possible POTENTIAL risks (or negatives) EXIST ,
NO Matter When Exposure takes place.

They are inherent no matter when (time line wise) they are carried out.

Risks such as violence, increased stress on the martial couple, increasing / resuming contact, Not being believed and on and on and on.

The main difference isn't in the risks themselves, {as they remain pretty constant}
its simply "WHERE" the Martial Relationship is AT,
when said exposure occurs.

So for clarity, the actual Risks are basically identical ...but [for some] its OK at one point in time .....but Not in another. Say What?

With that said:
So sad,
that the MAIN argument in not telling the OPS (yrs down the line) is simply that in the beginning there is a perceived huge Benefit to the BS (still with risks) .........but later on the potential risks no longer outweigh those risks (as the turmoil has died down).

For all intensive purposes,
(Reason for not telling) is that, I'm protecting my own small world .......now if I GET something out of it, cool .....if not .....the rest be damned.

Basically resembling the same type of Selfish and ME, Me, me attitude .......that PERMITTED the A to Exist in the First Place .
Sound familiar??
You ALL KNOW THIS Story:
One person determining that their Life was somehow MORE important ....their needs--their Wants......and that THEY were to be the KEEPER of relevant knowledge "about" someone else's life .....the consequences be damned.

And in this case,
Even though it was YOUR WS that was the one Violating this person's LIFE, family and marriage.
Just as they (and the OP) DID TO You!

My goodness,
just click on over the TOW.
This is EXACTLY the motto and mentality that RUNS rampant over there.
After all: (go read it, since your recommending threads)--
IT comes across Loud & Clear:
"Its NOT my problem, NEVER TELL, its the BS's WS responsibility to tell their own spouse", and ALL THE REST!
That "is" what is taken as the Gospel over there!!

For pete's sake,
Just by lining up with THEIR way of thinking ......is assisting them in their actions .....and should give AnyOne with half a conscience room to take pause at themselves.

Lastly,
just like with Dr Harley ......we can't Force anyone here to DO anything .....so if you don't DO exposure for your own situation ..........so be it.
It is what it is.

However,
then take your RIGHT and keep it to yourself. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Cause There are too many that will NEVER simply sit back and let the tenants of TOW be Freely preached on here.
Just ain't gonna happen.
So stop acting surprised when it does. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Call it what you will ..........but I'm thankful the Calvary comes rushing out .....whenever this nonsense is given out as a viable alternative to the TRUTH.
Cause the truth is what Finally got my M, out of the crapper.

As spoken/written all too many times before,
(& I concur)
I ONLY Wish for the other BS, that which I would have Wanted for MySelf!!!
So why don't YOU? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />-{passionate but rhetorical}

Well,
like it or not,
that then translates into "whichever" BS finds out first .......has the obligation to inform the Other.
Its that simple...& That Basic.

If its NOT done that way ....then the whole system falls apart .......and begs the question just why the Heck are we all on this website anyways??>>>>>>>>To help an innocent? (which sometime is us ) .....or to continue on in the WAYS of TOW and use secrecy, selfishness & lies of ommishion to "protect" the deception of something as destructive as Affairs?
Choice is ours....help or hurt.

And as we're ALL in this together ........shame on any other BS which is Thankful (however begrudgingly) for that gift (of knowing) for themselves .....then tell others "but too bad for you".
Used to be we actually supported each other in deeds ......not just lip service.

It shouldn't come down to Luck (like hitting the lottery) if you find out What the H*LL has gone on in your M.
I get it when a WS doesn't understand this.....but for a BS not to ......well, other then irrational Fears ...what's that all about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

{edited to take out comment to 2Be} <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Well said TR.

ditto

BRAVO TR

Oh bravo Top Rope...


Hmmmm...a RIGHT? And you can express "your RIGHT"?


Hmmmm...? So it seems it's pretty much "put up" or "shut up"? Discussing alternate views on late exposure is not allowed? If you do, you must "put up" with the bashing and humiliating treatment for having a different view on late exposure. Oh wait....Dr.Harley does not mention late exposure on this "site"....hmmmm...but he does talk about it ALOT on his radio program...hmmmm...yep...ALOT...that's what MelodyLane says because she listens to his radio program ALOT.


Interesting...I never read over on TOW.

Here are some interesting ideas from BS's from a Christian forum that supports marriages and families:



I guess they belong over on TOW...don't they Top Rope? I better go over and tell them that they are all screwed up in their thinking....

P.S.
Starfish ROCKS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

and now the peanut gallery is heard from! Owl, I think that's your door bell.

LOL! You are too funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

And all the while this still eats you and your marriage alive 2B...So sad...And hey, I thought you and your husband had POJAed that you were no longer participating on MB...It's okay to break POJA on this though? Hmmmm...Gotcha!

Mrs. W

Nope..no POJA MrsW....No...I'm doing fine. My marriage is better than ever...Just FINE and JUST dandy MrsW....How are you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Is this eating at you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

And these are the kind of affair promoting posts we have come to expect from the likes of 2BNormal and her side kick, IWRA. So, I am not surprised to see more of the same. These kind of posts DO belong over on TOW and would fit right in. They don't fit in here. There is nothing "Christian" about lying to your victim. Just as with her friend, IWRA, who posted a similar post written by a "PASTOR", they actively search the web looking for opinions that discourage exposure to the victims.

2BNormal, I have to add that most of your posts are very disappointing and disturbing to me, but your post to MrW yesterday was the most disappointing yet. I gave you great credit for being willing to make amends to your victim and applauded your act of conscience. I see now, by your own admission, that it was just a phony act.

As you explained, you only said you would do it because of peer "pressure" rather than from pangs of conscience. It appears that we greatly overestimated your "conscience."