I have great neighbors in the area of the complex I am in. I have a family with 3 kids that my kids play with. Mom and Dad are EMT's. I have a pastor and his family next door. I have a single father and his kids below me and I have a family across from me that goes to my church. My church is across the street and a large city park is next door. We have high dollar condo's next to the complex and the complex it self is about 4 years old. Its better than some houses.

All tenants have background checks performed when they move in.

WW as far as I know has not made plans to move

September 6 Jenn took girls to gym with her from 4pm to 8pm they got home around8:30 and called me. They were all very tired and Jorden did not have all her homework done. They had not eaten dinner yet nor had they taken shower’s. For the past 5 months I have picked the girls up on Wednesday when jenn worked, she is withholding the kids from me. I talked to morgan and katelyn and they missed me very much. Earlier in the day I had made eye doctor appointment for them. For Friday at 4:30 I informed MIL of appointment so she could pass it along to Jenn.

September 7 Jenn called me at 7:15AM on jorden’s cell phone while driving to school. Was very mad that I had taken girls shot records, I had asked for them months before and had taken them out of the folder we kept records in two months ago. I needed them to take the girls to the doctors back in august. She was very nasty to me, I ask that if she was going to talk to me that she could be at least nice. I then ask to talk to the girls… the Nextel was turned off and I couldn’t call them…. About 5 minutes later Jorden calls me to say goodmorning, she sounded tired and was worried that she was missing her flute. She was excited that she was going to see me tonight. I talked to katelyn, she was crying pretty hard. She wouldn’t tell me why she was crying said it was for no reason and that she just wanted to cry. She too was excited to be seeing me tonight. I talked to Morgan and she was happy to talk to me, she said that her and Katelyn had not taken a shower this morning or last night, even though they were playing at the apex gymnastics for several hours the night before. She said katelyn was crying because mom had yelled at her and katelyn has yelled back that she was going to walk to school. There was something about a confrontation with jenn and katelyn, but Jennifer made morgan stop telling me about it. I told the girls I love them and I would see them tonight. Went to lunch with katelyn and morgan and Katelyn said mom splapped her across the cheek for her tantrum. Talked to Jorden later and she said mom told them not to say anything. The girls were very excited to see me. Jenn called me from MIL to let me know to pick up kids at 4pm at the Gym. Jenn called me at 3pm ask if I got the message I said yes, ask if I would watch the girls the night of Sept 21 and Sept 22, Sept 23and24 are my weekend. She is going to new york. I asked her why she felt she needed to slap katelyn, Said katelyn was having a tantrum, said she needs to learn to talk to the girls. I have demonstrated to her great care in talking down the girls when they get upset and not to escalate the issue. She agree that she should try. I went to the apex gym to pick up the girls at 3:45. I pulled into the parking lot and parked away from her car. When the girls started to come over she started to talk to me. I finally told her that I was going to contact Erik Jensen and all the other guys she has been engaged with during our marriage and will find out what type of relationship they had with her… Eric has sent her very sexual emails, could have had phone sex. Got girls and went to the apartment, fixed dinner for the girls. Worked on their homework, katelyn was doing awesome with multiplication of 9. Worked with Morgan on her reading homework, and talked to Jorden about a school project. Jen called me at 5:30 she wanted to know what was the deal with the I said in the parking lot. I said I am not going to rest on information or involving people she has effected until I get fair and equal access to the girls.

She suggested that we do a 4x3 custody schedule WOW!!! I said sure lets get it to the lawyer’s.

I took the girls outside at 6:00 we went to the park rode bikes, played on play ground, came back to the apartment. Played with Natashia and her brother’s. Katelyn’s friend halie came over (she lives in the same complex) The girls played until 7:20 and came in and took showers, they got done at about 8:10 and jenn showed up to pick them up. The girls collected her stuff and went out to the car and they left by 8:22

You are doing good. Document everything by date, add times and any time anyone witnesses a conversation note it. One think I remeber you saying was that you did not feel the need to fight for sole custody. Is your wife capable and willing to raise the girls properly? I can assure you that they are not her priority. What do you know about the OM? Are there skeletons in his closet? Have you had a background check completed? If skeletons exist are there people willing to testify to this? I am concerned about your WW slapping. Is this something she did before the affair or is this her taking her frustrations and anger at her little playground being messed up out on the children?

Will she put in writing the offer of 4x3 split? What about offering her visitation every other weekend and 4-6 weeks in the summer, and spring breaks and
Christmas breaks? You can play to how many days she will have them and with her priorities being Mr. Mike she may just be in a stupor to buy off on it. It sounds as if the girls will be better off with you by far.

I am monitoring the sitch very closely, I want her to feel consequences and maybe come out of the fog.

I wouldn't never want to take the girls from her, but I am prepared to take any action necessary. She back downed down when I threatned to bring her old friends into the battle. So its not a threat I would if need be.

I am calling my lawyer first thing in the moring to get things rolling.

Are you using MB as your journal??

I hope not and presume not.

The most effective and substantive journal is handwritten and dated. Otherwise it's veracity is questioned because it can be altered after the fact. Even though MB posts are frozen after some time you have the opportunity to amend them for some time after the fact. Thus not as reliable as a timely journal.

Besides, if you try to admit an MB post you'll likely make ALL your MB posts admissable. I am uncertain, however, I have seen it upheld in court in other MB poster court cases that MB posts are copyrighted and inadmissable in court. I don't necessarily get the argument and why it works but that supposedly is the law. Don't hand your WW all this information herein some of which can and would be likely twisted and craftily utilized by her attorney against you.

Mr. Wondering <---only a tax attorney and not a litigator

I have just taken the past couple of days out of my journal and posted them as they are my best description of what is going on and how I feel.

I feel that I won a small victory today. I also feel sad that my WW is feeling sick and has an ulcer, I am not taking the blame for that and have told her so. I told her its part of her owning her consequences. I told just because I would be happy to get the custody taken care of, there are more dire consequences that she will eventually face, like the alienation of her children. Which each day that goes by seem to want her less and me more. Nor for the fact that I can provide for them, but the fact that I am there for them doing things with them.

My lawyer gave her lawyer all my bank and pay information and we then asked for her bank statements, it will demonstrate that she spent her last dime on a plane ticket to see the OM, while begging for more money from ME.

I think I could go for full custody and win, but I would rather let the girls be with their mom for now.

I would like to know if that is manipulation?
I would like to know if that is control?

I could and would take my kids full time, but I don't want to deny their mother access to them. I also want to avoid any fight.

As I see my WW flounder with no direction and only the OM to go to I feel more solid and confident in my life. I need to practice detachment more because I still desire my WW but I don't want her back in this condition....

I worry that as people say, WW tend to look for their father in OM, especially abusive ones. WW was abused by her father and the OM is a manipulator

Generally going for full custody and then negotiating down from there is the battle plan. If you ask for merely what you want you often end up with less.

Further, by pleading initially that she can have shared custody you are giving away your argument that you believe her to be unfit to any extent.

Consider this carefully with your attorney.

This is not manipulation...it's your children. When she demonstrates her fittedness you can always willing give her more custody later....on your terms. IMO, let the consequences of her actions fall squarely on her shoulders.

Mr. Wondering

I agree but we are trying to avoid court and if she agress to 50/50 i am okay for that right now.

If we go to court yes full custody and expose to the hilt

Jenn,

I know mickey has access to all your accounts and you probably would
forward this to him anyways, so I will assume he will see this too.

I am stating first and upfront, that this is a rant a vent me getting
things off my chest and no means meant to threaten or harass you.

Now, we never got to finish our little discussion about what you said
to the girls about your first two years with jorden were so difficult
because? I wasn't there? No matter what you meant to say. The message
conveyed to the girls was that daddy wasn't there for us the first two
years. Let me clear up your memory for you. The first year and half of
our marriage I was deployed for a good portion of it in the Marines, I
remember you saying that your work wouldn't allow you to come see me off
when I had to go to Saudi on a alert operation and you had to watch my
C5 from the the back of the pharmamcy... So I had no control of where or
when I went somewhere's and to apply I had a choice is irresponsible.
When I wasn't deployed I spent that entire time with you and jorden. I
even remember watching jorden so you and megan could go out to the green
leguana in tampa. I also supported and paid for your adventure into
casablanca modeling, I even drove you once a week for your acting
classes, while I sat in the waiting room with infant daughter. You seem
to recall the fact we had a car repossed in tampa, but do remember that
I had asked you to take over the bill paying responsiblitlity while I
was deployed so it would be done, but you couldn't/wouldn't so I had to
try and do it while deployed. Do you also remeber that that weekend the
Pathfinder was repossed I was in Mississippi in school, I rented a car,
drove 10 hours got home early in the morning, went found the tow truck
company got all our stuff out of the Pathfinder, went that sunday looked
at and bought you a new VW Jetta, then had to fly back to MS on monday?
You were without a car for 2 days? Those details always seem to be
missing in your stories.

I also know that you have been a flirt our entire marriage, I have heard
the stories from years of friends. I just am now realizing how far you
could have taken it. I have always thought you to be innocent and that
I really destroyed that. I don't hold any illusions of that anymore.
You even said you were in contact with Mickey in tampa, when we first
moved to NC. How long did it go on, How many of those nights you cried
yourself to sleep wasn't because you didn't know how to reach me but
that you were just missing the mic. So I know because you told me and I
am now just piecing this stuff together. On one or several of those
occassions that I flew you home for a weekend to see mom and get a
break from the kids, you saw him. The drive out to mantauk - I think we
still have one of those famous self portrait pictures you like taking of
the two of you driving.

Now for the mickey. So you say that I never stand up and defend you -
against my family or anyone else. Well, what kind of man when his
woman's husband calls his house runs behind her skirt and has her call
me to find out why I am calling his house. I thought men had balls?
Then when I say something like maybe his current wife would like to know
certain things he delete's his entire myspace account.... my gosh could
he have any larger of a vagina that to run scared that hard and long.
What man moves to kentucky and has a live in girl friend for a year and
then tries to make it work with his wife because of financial reason's
its just too expensive on LI to live anywhere else. To say he has never
cheated on his wife - I call foul on that. If he is such good friends
with his wife - they are still married and he isn't affraid of what she
would say, let her call me and tell me mickey never cheated on her.

Then to tell me that oh the woman should have 90% of the caregiving
responsiblitiy of the children. Yet again showing he has no care or
responsibility about the fate of his own offspring. I guess paying for
them is good enough. God I want to be involved in every aspect of
everyday of all my kids, they are the everything to me and I could never
see giving up that privilege of raising them. I would die before giving
that up. So its obivious he would never want you to move there with
our kids, he would come up with so many cleaver excusses, like their
father needs them or it would be unfair to the grandparents. What he is
saying is I don't want to raise my own why would I want to raise yours.
Speaking of raising, do you two realize once you get married his
income gets included in your childsupport income?? Gee I would probably
have no childsupport payment once you two got hitched. Along with no
alimony I would be doing great... I could get the girls everything they
ever needed and you two would have to support 5 kids.

If mickey was a man he would call me up and ****** me out, but I don't
expect that to ever happen. Better yet would be for him to actually
come to north carolina and defend you, but again when pigs fly would I
see him stand toe to toe to me and say that he is defening you. Our
daughter whined less over a broken arm than he whined over his silly finger.

I know you have said I never supported you and help out... that is just
[censored]. In the new house in the old house, in tampa I worked my
freaking [censored] off to get you thing, trips to disney, trips to the
carribean, new cars, horses, you said priviate school I wrote the check,
but its not all about money. How many times did I come home when you
asked me too, to go out with the girls, so you could coach cheerleading.
How about when you felt sick or had a headache, you would call me at
work to pick the girls up from school, you realize that is an 1 and half
drive to school, did I ever refuse you - did I ever complain.? How many
times did you go on women retreats and I watched the kids. I am tired
of hearing that you were the only one that raised these girls, How many
times did we go to an amusement park and all you wanted to do is ride
the rollercoaster's??? Who stayed with Katelyn and Morgan so you and
jorden could ride the rollercoaster's?? How many did I complain about?

You know in 12 years of marriage I never heard you say our marriage or
our family, it was always mine mine mine, it always was jen.

Now, jenn gets what jenn earns and deserves, how long can you fall back
on your folks? before they start comparing you to your half sister/
brother and brother? When do you start taking responsibility? The
house isn't going to sell - your not on the loan but your on the deed
and a forclosure is on the deed, So if we foreclose you don't get the
load default and all the late payements but you do get a big fat stamp
on your credit for 10 years Foreclosure. So when are you going to act?

I have sheltered you provided for you and done everything you have asked
of me for the past 12 years, you don't want that support anymore so I
ask you what are you going to do? What about your car? Hasn't had an
oil chainge in 5 months, it needs state inspection sticker this month,
its needs a tune up? What are you going to do? You selling heather and
seeker? you keeping them? You packing up the house? or you just going
to leave it there for the foreclosure.

You need to stop running to NY and worry about life her, Mickey doesn't
care about your life her, he is worried about his fun time there. One
of YOUR friends said it the best if he cares for you so much instead of
plane tickets why isn't he helping pay for rent somewhere's. because he
is selfish and self centered just like you. As long as he gets what he
wants he is happy. Getting that weekend girl to come up and show him
all that love, why the heck not. Now really committ and do something to
help her survive and get along with her life, well that might be a bit
much for him.

I wonder, he lives with his wife, as they are still married, and their
two kids. So I guess it really cramps the dating styles of a player
like mickey... wow a girl for the past that loves him to death, well I
can sit up in my apartment and talk to her all night long, cool she will
fly up for weekend so we can get our funk on bonus points.... now come
the day he has to get out of the house and get his own bachelor's pad??
wonder what happens then. Maybe he will go fishing with the same
people your previous boyfriend dissappeared with for a couple of days at
a time. I guess the phone sex isn't as good as the real thing by a
local girl at his new pad. But this can all easily be explained away,
first I am a desperate husband NOT. Second he will manipulate you,
baby I don't know if you really love me if you don't want to do the
things I need done? He got you so wrapped is sad to watch you following
his bouncing cell phone.

Yes I am angery, because I have been manipulated for 12 years, I have
been used and I have taken it, I broke down and did some really stupid
things. Yeah I screwed up in our marriage but I am taking
responsibility for it, I recognize my part of the failure. but there
was plenty of failure to going around.

You would not believe how many people support me today in raising these
kids, you would not believe how many people tell me stories of you lying
or trying to manipulate situations. I think your daughter said it best,
mommy is a bad liar, she will lie to you at night and in the morning she
will forget about her lie and get caught and lie again about not lieing.
You have lied to your pastor, you have lied to your folks, you have
lied to your own daughter's. Do you even believe yourself anymore?

With all I feel and all the hurt I have inside. With all the things I
have realized that have happened in the past 12 years that I feel
cheated, scammed, betrayed for our entire marriage. With all that in me.
The only thing I want is to be their for you. Its hard to believe but
the strongest thing I feel is still love for you. But its not
unconditional and its not given anymore but its love none the less. I
know in time that love will fade and will be replaced, I just hope
before then. You would come to realize that with all our faults we have
3 daughters that need us, you and I. Bill and Jenn. Mom and Dad. Not
apart not separated not divorced but together.

You were 20 once you can't be 20 again, your girls need a mother who has
one focus and focus would be them. The girls are tired of the
blackberry dance and the treo schuffle. They know they are not your
priority right now, it kills them to know that and it kills me to hear
it from them.

You need to decide what you want in YOUR life, do you go and be with
mike and start a new life and love and leave the girls with me - I would
never deny you them but I am focused and stable for them, I can provide
for them and take care of them. I don't have any other priority than to
provide for them.

If you ever had a doubt about my sincerity know this, you get 1 chance
to save our family, for the girls I would seriously think about it. You
go away to baltimore you can guarantee that our family is no more and I
will only concern myself about the girls and never think or care for you
again. Does this sound like a ultimatum, because it is.

These next few days you will have to fully decide if you want to risk
everything on someone that betrayed you in texas, tried hooking up with
you while still married and says that you can love from a distance.

I betrayed you and bow down asking forgiveness. There is no pain that
has been caused that can not be over comed. I have grown so much in the
past six months I know exactly what I want. I want a partner that will
work with me on our family.

Bill

any comment?

Sure....why bother trying to reason with a lunatic? Because she is your wife?? Why are you not in Plan B??

I am heading that way, we are still working out custody and property and settling the kids in the best we can, even though she is off in fantasy land leaving me to pick up the pieces. I know it is pointless to reason, but I wanted to lay more of it out for her so you can't say I didn't warn her of what could happen.

bump

Viking,

Good letter. Your arguments to convince your WW to recommit to the marriage are persuasive. I hope it provided you with some temporary pressure relief. And boy you tore her OM a new one with your on the money portrayal of a gigolo of long standing.

Now rip up the letter and get back to the wonderful job you are doing with your children and documentation.

Best of luck

What if your custody arrangements drag on because of legal delays? The financial aspect of the seperation can usually be taken care of fairly quickly, however if you plan to fight for custody that may drag awhile. Although you can go into Plan B now I would suggest Plan B as soon as you get the financial stuff taken care of so you will only have to interact for issues pertaining to the kids. If you expect that it will take months to settle this, you should consider Plan B now.

I expected to be in Plan B months before it actually happened so try not to make the same mistake I made. You are living apart so you may want to go into Plan B now.

As for reasoning with a WS...good luck. Remove yourself from their chaos so they can self-destruct.

Try not to LB during this time and then when you go into Plan B you go very DARK.

I have been dark for most of the past 3 weeks, ever since I moved into my apartment. I have been working with the girls to decorate their rooms, they have asked if mom could come up and take a look, but I told them its our space and your mom wants her own space so she is not welcomed here.

Wife said she wanted me to play nice last week because she was getting an ulcer, I told her it was the effects of her actions and she needs to own her own consequences.

I don't see why you can't just bring the girls to your house to eat?

If they need groceries- you will feed them but not at her house. That would be feeding her.

She needs to face reality and get out and get her own job to support herself.

Entitled?? WOW, she's bubbling over with it!

Viking,

I went back and read all your posts. Whew, talk about a self entitled me,me,me. Your fault was indulging her with the modeling, the "womens" retreats and footing the bill for everything she thinks she deserves. No questions asked.

Did she take forever to get her day face, hair and clothes on every morning? Did she spend hours so she could look like she just threw some things on?

Narcissim, the new religion.

I am quite the expert as I am guilty of your same crimes.

PS By any chance was "Sex and the City" a can't miss TV program for her?

vikingruler

Well, your letter was definitely a big, fat LB and, although she might have deserved some of it, the timing is unfortunate in that you're so close to Plan B. Ideally, the last thing you want to do before Plan B is leave her with the best Plan A impression you possibly can and then follow up with a Plan B letter that states that you love her, married her for life, and the conditions she needs to do in order to recover the relationship.

It's water under the bridge now, but you might keep in mind that the last little bit of time before you go to Plan B should be a really good Plan A to maximize the impact and effectiveness of the plan. I know it's hard, but you've come this far and I hate to see you sabotague your efforts when you're in the home stretch.

Just as an aside, I want to say that this type of statement:


is just generally offensive to women. It's really bothersome to have our body parts used as an insult to someone else. I realize it's sort of a society standard but... gosh it sure seems like you could come up with some other insulting phrase to use than comparing women to OM. Like men, some of us are good and some of us aren't -- our vaginas (size notwithstanding) truly have nothing to do with it.

Mys