Bill,

I read your letter, but I'm not sure how to advise you on it. I just didn't want you to think your posts were going ignored. I just have nothing wise to offer you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It sounded good to me. Open and honest.

Do you believe there might be an opening b/c of her doodle that questioned whether she was doing the right thing?

I'm glad you are feeling better about everything and that you believe you'll be OK no matter how things turn out. And I'm glad you are such a good and loving father.

Hopefully someone wiser will come along soon and offer a more helpful reply to your letter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

after my daughters got home, my oldest called me and questioned me about the notebook the doobles were in, obviously the WW was having her ask those questions.

So she is not probably mad at me for snooping around her (our old bedroom).

I wouldn't snoop if she moved out.

How would your WW know that you saw the doodles?

"Mistress" is a swat at her - I think you know that though.

"Girlfriend" is less hostile - and more truthful because she's not married and unless she's dating someone who IS married, she's not anyone's "MISTRESS".

OM is married but your right its DJ LB

Either my daughter saw me with the notebook or WW forgot where she put it and thought I had it

Vikingruler,

My DS' ex-wife kept a house very much like your WW is doing. DS had joint legal custody with his WW having the primary residential

She informed my DS that her boyfriend was being transferred to Texas, so they would be moving in a couple of weeks. DS said, "You might be moving, but my kids aren't moving to Texas where I can't see them like I do now."

Well, a day or so later, one of her neighbors calls DHS on her. DHS comes to the school to question the kids. That night, she brought all 3 kids to DS and moved out of the mobile home (that DS bought for the kids to have a permanent home instead of moving everytime she got behind on the rent) into her brother's camper. The next week, she moved to Texas.

DS went over to the trailer to get it cleaned up so he could sell it. She had a big dog, and there were BIG piles of dog poop. One bedroom had so much junk in it, you could hardly open the door. Since her boyfriend had moved in, (and no, DS couldn't do a legal thing about it because the law considered their arrangement as being like a landlord/tenant situation), GS#2 and DGD had been sleeping on the couch in the living room.

The trailer was a nice, though used, one when he bought it. After she moved out, he found that the dog had scratched and dug a hole through the floorcovering and plywood flooring at the front door. She had never mentioned that the kitchen sink was leaking, so the floor underneath was rotting out.

When he finally got into the junked up bedroom, he found the nice new (and expensive!!) clothes, still with the tags on them, that I had bought the kids for Christmas a few months before, thrown on the floor with urine stains from the dog on them. Every surface was covered with dirty dishes, fast food containers were in the floor, and the smell was enough to take your breath. He videoed the whole mess, and then left and called a cleaning service to come clean the place up. The lady who owned the cleaning service told DS that if he needed her to testify at the custody hearing, she would be happy to do so. DS told her thanks, but he had it all on video, and she said, "You can't video stink."

Although she did make sure the kids took baths, and she did wash their clothes, the kids absolutely STUNK all the time, as their clothes absorbed the dog odors. (DHS had a notation, from their interview with the kids, that the kids smelled really bad.) DS also learned from the neighbors that she was leaving the kids at home by themselves while she and her boyfriend were out partying.

DGS#2 and DGD's teachers told DS that she was actually doing the kids' homework FOR them...in her own handwriting. The kids said that Mama couldn't help them with their homework because she wasn't home didn't have time to help them, so she did it in the mornings. exDiL apparently doesn't need much sleep, as she has always been an early riser, no matter how late she goes to bed.

Oldest DGS had been wanting to move in with his dad for quite a while. Once, he was at our house with my H. My old dog, who had a problem with continency due to her age, had an accident on the kitchen floor. As was our custom, H went outside and got our "pee-mop", mopped it up, washed the mop out and hung it back outside; then, he sprayed the Lysol disinfectant on it, and mopped again with paper towels. Our grandson asked him, "Paw, why are you doing all that?" My H said, "I have to do this so the floor will be clean and the house won't smell bad." DGS exclaimed, "MAN! I need to tell my mama about this stuff! Our house stinks so bad, I can hardly stand it!" He then went on to tell H that he didn't want to invite his friends over because he was ashamed of their house, because when he went to visit them, their houses smelled nice, and were usually pretty clean. He also said that some of the kids had started making fun of them at school because their clothes stunk. He said that the only times their clothes didn't stink were when DS took them to school on Monday morning after having them on the weekend, because the first thing DS did when they got to his house on Friday was to wash all their clothes.

DHS did not pursue any action against exDiL because DS notified them that he now had the kids living with him.

DS now has full custody of the kids. They each have their own rooms, which can get pretty messy (they aren't allowed to eat in their rooms and have to clean their rooms at least once a week), but the house and clothes are clean, they get home-cooked meals, and go to the doctor and dentist on a regular basis, as needed.

I have a friend who works for DHS in our county, and she said that having kids living in filth is neglect, so the filthy house would definitely have put exDiL under close scrutiny in our state.

As for custody issues in court, the filth would have definitely tilted the verdict in favor of our DS.

As it was, exDiL lied in court about the paternity of our DGD, along with lying about her conviction for forgery, so when the DNA proved that DS was indeed the father of our DGD, she finally capitulated and signed the custody agreement. So, the judge never got to see the videotape of the house she left behind. The judge didn't like her anyway...said right out in court that she was "trashy". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

IMHO, I think you should ask the attorney if, in the absence of a separation/custody agreement, you can legally keep the girls with you due to their nasty living conditions and file for emergency temporary custody. They should not have to live another minute in filth! I know that this will not be considered MB-like, but the health of your kids is at stake.

I wanted to make a statement/comment about MB principals and healing in general. It has been kinda of a lightbalb moment for me over the past couple of days.

I look at the WW and I look at myself, I see both people hurt and broken and feeling pain from their own actions and pain caused by the other. I see escapism on the part of my WW. I see anger at how I feel she is treating the girls.

Here is the thing I have come to recognized, if you don't take the time to heal yourself you are going to be a mess the rest of your life. I have been healing and now I see point in my life where I feel bettwe, look better and see the world as a better place for me and my kids. Notice I didn't say anything about WW. I see WS starting off on path of utter pain and destruction, I see the fog being toxic to them and anyone that allows themselves to be immersed in it.

So again, today Ifeel better and have a better out look on line, thanks to taking the time to heal and to look forward.

Iam going into my lawyer's office tomorrow knowing that what I am going to do is the right thing for me and the kids.

Thanks All

Here is the letter I sent to WW

Jennifer,

I was talking to Chris today about our situation and he asked me
something that I didn't think I knew, he said how would Jennifer
communicate with you. After all the hurt that has been done, by both of
us. I thought about that and I know I have been closed to you and you to
me.

Every time the girls cry it hurts, every time they ask to stay with me
and can't it hurts, every time they say they wish they had a mom and dad
it hurts.

First, there would never be anything you would do as my wife that I
wouldn't forgive. That being said your not my wife right now, your
someone else's girlfriend and someone that is hurting our family.

I have grown so much in the past six months, focusing on the things that
matter the most, the girls and my family. I have really come to simply
enjoy them and what they have to offer. I am hurt by what they are going
through, not matter how easy divorces could be - the kids are greatly
impacted. That hurts me to no end, and I want to protect them so bad
from it.

I know its hard to think that we could recover from something like this,
but its not impossible. I know now its hard because all I am to you is
a conflict and a constant source of resentment and pain. It goes both
ways. As long as the girls are in pain, I will try my hardest to protect
them.

However, there is always hope and faith, the only boundary I would
require to be open and honest with you and to work with you, is that
there is no one else! With that I would be available to you to consider
all options, to work through any problem and to make start something
that we could both cherish in the future. Just like when you were
talking to Chris, it hurt and I was sometimes mean and resented what you
were doing. Once you stopped talking to him, I knew there was chance,
maybe a slim chance but a chance. I worked hard to communicate, be make
myself available and to be a friend and listen to you. I remember
sitting in Arizona talking to you about things, just listening. That is
what I want to do now.

I have never given up on you, I have always wanted to provide you with
everything you ever wanted. I over extended myself and created
resentment and pain, I would never hurt my wife again. Knowing what I
know now, we could be stronger and more loving than either of us would
ever expect.

I am here when your ready

Here is the response I got from here

Bill,
There is no getting back together. Its over! It is very difficult to have a conversation with you because I never know what to expect. If you have something to say and it has nothing to do with the girls you need to contact my lawyer. You need to stay out of the house and my stuff. Or I will take futher action. Thank you

Response:

Jennifer,

I understand your decision to not try and work on our marriage and protect our children from the pain and terrible ramifications of divorce and I am deeply saddened by it. What you should have expected is that I would have made every effort to save my family and if that's not possible that I will above all else and with all that I am protect our children. (she will wonder what this means)

I will honor your request regarding only discussing the children should we have to talk at all.

"Is it her house? Are you paying the mortgage? Are you restricted by court order from entering?"

Yes and you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of your past.

Viking I have been following this thread and to see you say this makes me know you will be ok.

One day I had the lightbulb moment to and said the easiest thing to fix is me.

Even my kids have noticed it. They said so last night. LOL.

The world seems to be a better place now that I am better.

With the letter. I think you did a good job. It is not over until it is over.

She may say it is now but you can go through this saying what if or having regrets. You are trying and if she doesn't want it then it is still ok.

You are being true to yourself and your family and to do otherwise would be a contradiction to your self.

Either way it works out you will be a better person for this whole thing.

You are learning from your past and that is all you can do.

Good luck

well I understand her a bit better than she thinks. She is not just a conflict avoider she is an avoider. She avoids reality she avoids decision's. It wouldn't suprise me if she moves in with her parents when he has to move out of the house.

Either way I will work on me and fight for the kids.

First of all, it's still your house- your name is on it correct??

I thought your letter was beautiful but thought to myself this was a lost cause because she's so far gone.

I don't really know the background of where your marriage was at the time she started the affair- were you guys in withdrawal??

It's good to work on you. My husband did this when his exwife left him for OM. He went to counseling on his own and figured out what he did that contributed to the divorce as well as what he did correctly. Let me tell you, I have reaped the rewards from his doing that.

She is unbelievable.

checking in on you...

wife is getting served this weekend for so I can take her to court for custody.... I am at 100% again - so I feel, she is on the verge of spiral.

I will update more later.

Just checking in to see how you are doing.

Let us know when you get a chance.

Checking in on you VR.

How are things going?

Let us know when you get a chance.

So there has been A LOT going on since I last posted but to make this short, the OM that caused my separation - who then got dumped by WW is going to testify in court on my behalf against my WW!!!!

I have 10 witness - she has none

Keep coming back VR. Once you are part of this motley crew we care about what happens with you. Unbelievable about the OM testifying. My OMW testified for me and against my EX WW and old OM (i.e. - lunatic).

Come back and keep us informed and perhaps we can offer something helpful as you get ready to fight this fight

So my wife hasn't stopped going to NY.

She is now anarexic and has signs of deep emotional problems, her passive agressive and narastic tendancies are coming out stronger. She keeps saying everyone is lieing, the kids don't want to be with her.

OM5 and her mother are totally enablers and they keep helping her justify her actions and way of thinking.

We go to court Tuesday and hopefully get the ball rolling for me to have primary custody