I heard this from a marriage counselor on the radio yesterday. The subject was infidelity......anyhow.....he said alot of the WS in a marriage think their partners (BS) are suckers for taking them back after the affair. They feel as if they can have the affair, smooth things over and go right back to the affair or a new affair.


Discuss. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I believe this can be true when the A is not properly dealt with... just swept under the carpet. The perception of this is that there are no major consequences. The WS can think they got away with it and all they have to deal with are lumpy carpets.

This is not the case in all situations like this... sometimes the WS still properly deals with the demons on their own when the BS doesn't process and gets back to life quickly.

But, I think when both partners go through all the steps of recovery this should create enough pain, conflict and hard responses that this type of sucker feeling is not correct. I couldn't begin to guess how many A's are swept under the carpet in order to agree or disagree with the MC's statement that "alot of the WS in a marriage think" this way.

Shaden

If the BS were to “take them back” without establishing healthy boundaries and without exercising prudent recovery tools such as IC, MC, MB, then I would have to agree with the radio personality.

I believe that the behavior of both the FWS and the FBS has to change or you will continue to get what you have gotten in the past.

History will repeat itself without change.

Expecting anything less would be pure insanity.

During the recovery process, after the A is busted up and NC has been realized, it is MHO that every FBS has to determine if their FWS is remorseful.

The FBS has to determine weather their FWS had a “breakdown” in social/marital boundaries and is truly a good person with issues OR if the FWS is a sociopath.

The former can be worked with. The latter type person is pretty much a hopeless case.

Again, this is my observation of many cases in personal life and those I have come to know on MB.

Best regards,

StartinOver,

From my personal point of view as a FWS, this is not true… In fact, I have the greatest respect and admiration for BS’s who decide to take their WS’s back after an A…and I certainly don’t view the willingness of the BS’s to give the WS's another chance, as permission to engage in the same or another A again. Also, IMO and from my POV, for a BS to give the WS a second chance and get involved in marriage recovery after infidelity, is a sign of great strength & courage…and IMO is a great example of what true, agape and Biblical love towards the marriage partner constitutes… Infidelity is such a huge betrayal and traumatic experience for the BS that even God permits a BS to get a divorce should he/she decides so… Again, it takes a strong person to get through something like this…even more so if the BS decides to stay with the WS and works through recovery (which include establishing healthy boundaries and not sweeping issues under the carpet)…

Just my 2 cents.

I think this depends on the attitude of the BS. If the BS has the reaction to d-day " I can`t live without you...I`ll do whatever it takes...I`ll put with with continued contact if you will just stay with me....I`ll change whatever I have to change to please you so you`ll choose ME"...

They will be viewed as a sucker.

However if the BS has the attitude "I will not put up with this....continued contact will equal a divorce....I`ll work on my 100% but you will work on your 100% too OR ELSE...we fix this mess or I am GONE...You pull this again and you are history"

They will not be viewed as a sucker.

As a FWS I say NO WAY!!

That is of course if the A has been dealt with and the issue confronted by both, using MB methods or similar.

I am constantly amazed and impressed with the depth of courage and love that so many BS have and their determination to rebuild a new life with a reformed WS.

They fight for what they believe in, they stand up to be counted.

Frankly they are an inspiration to me at least.

It sounds to me that the MC who made such a statement has no either idea how to advise on an A or perhaps had a bad experience themselves. the old doctor heal thyself rarely works.
Perhaps the statement requires to be put in context, the MC may have been referring to a specific situation.

the word

"alot" bothers me

Once "the boundary that must NEVER be breached" is breached, other boundaries look vulnerable as well

Which is why, even after a few years have passed, the WS might still take the phone call, answer the email, or accidentally on purpose run into the OP in the market! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Without sufficient repair and EXTRAORDINARY NC precautions ... there is a continued risk ... which is WHY [color:"blue"]MelodyLane [/color]fights soooooooo hard for exposure to the OP's spouse ~~~> it helps prevent future problems in the boundary folks!

so, I might say that[color:"red"] the word a lot holds true if the OP's spouse is left in the dark about the affair, and also if the WS continues to WORK WITH/NEAR/AROUND the OP.[/color]

Pep

and yet .... you did!

What is your position about the WS being given a 3rd chance? ....

[color:"red"] fool me once ~~~> shame on you!

fool me twice ~~~> shame on me ![/color]

WHY NOT a 4th-5th-6th chance as well?

I think the BS taking a 3rd-4th-etc chance does look like a weakling with no spine ! [color:"red"] ~~~> especially after a so-called "recovered marriage" [/color]

Pep

It's about change.

All BSs have *been* suckers historically. We *have* believed lies, we have accepted less than we should, we have failed to question questionable events.

There are quite a few BSs who try very hard to remain suckers especially in the early aftermath, possibly most have chosen the sucker route [ie path of least resistance] rather than the more difficult boundary enforcement/self discipline/vigilance/raised expectations on at least a few occasions or with regard to a few issues post Dday because...frankly...it sucks and is a lot of work and is uncomfortable and stressfull.

In short..it is very EASY to believe lies that you WANT to believe.

Some people remain perpetual suckers despite having intellectual knowledge about affair dynamics etc simply because they are not WILLING to make the required internal changes in a permanent way.

No suprise then that the WSs of these folks view them [accurately] as suckers...they wander through life as fogged out as any affairee and their ability to rationalize and sustain/retreat to a fantasy world gives me pause and leads to speculation on my part I admit to the nature of the marriage/relationship/sanity.

So perhaps suckerdom needs a bonafide "F" to be aspired to as well?

... as in ...

FSBS = former sucker betrayed spouse?

... catchy!

Pep

I agree that the process after the A is what probably influences the FWS behaviour.

I read from Andre Agassi

The value of something is not what you gain but what you might lose.

Pep saw this on another post.

Now if I have an A and I am allowed to dictate what recovery is. Forgive and forget I might have more to gain then lose.

That is why I agree that if there is remorse, repentance and hard work on the FWS part it would make it hard for them to do it again.

If it was quite easy after the A what the heck why not.

No, I did not… Contact was not broken because I thought I had my H’s permission due to the fact that he gave me another chance. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> You forget that – after those e-mail exchanges for that one day which was instigated by OM – I immediately confessed to my H the following weekend and send a NC-letter. You know, if I thought it was okay/permissible to engage in the same EA again, I would not confess to my H; felt terribly ashamed/guilty and like a failure...and would not send another NC letter…then in fact I would stay silent and let the EA continue and progress to a more serious level… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

For your information Pep (just to set things straight and avoid any misunderstandings), my H didn’t gave me a 3rd chance…he gave me a 2nd chance. Yes, I did send a 3rd letter recently. However, the 2nd NC-letter was not send because the EA was resumed, but because OM kept trying to contact me to start a friendship again. Before the 2nd letter there was no wrong or inappropriate behavior from my side…only recently (more than 2 months ago) with the e-mail exchanges.

Tell me Pep, would you prefer my H to divorce me after the recent e-mail exchanges...even after I've confessed to him and took corrective steps? In spite of those things, do you think I don't deserve a 2nd chance?

Anyway, to answer your question. I think whether or not the FWS can be given another chance depends on a lot of things…To mention a few: Circumstances; what led to the break of NC (by whom the contact was instigated); the sincerity of the FWS; honesty & openness of the FWS about breaking of contact and willingness to take corrective actions; whether the FWS repents and is really remorseful, etc.

Who was talking about 4th, 5th and 6th (and even 3rd) chances? Certainly not me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Well that's a no brainer....any BS who allows the WS into the M is a sucker. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

The BS s/b only allowing nothing less than a repentant Xws. Not a WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

L.