She seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. Would like to hear an update.

NT

I think you can find her posting over on the General Discussion:Misdirection Board. I saw her there just this afternoon. Wierd place for her to hang out. Not that active but some interesting threads.

GQII must have gotten to hot for her to handle.

Mr. W

Cute, Mr. W. Very cute. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Hi NT,
Thanks for your concern. Actually, the main reason I haven't been posting much lately is that I've been living my life instead. And it's been a little overwhelming. In the last two weeks I/We've:

1. Been battling a developer and our city officials over a water drainage issue in our neighborhood. This has been going on all summer, but is now coming to a head. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

2. Learned that the small, alternative school our DD6 was enrolled in for this fall is folding. We found out just one week ago, and we've been scrambling to come up with another plan. We finally settled on home schooling for this year, and the responsibility for that will fall mainly on my shoulders. Anyone here ever try to put together a home schooling program in one week flat? It's quite a little project. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

3. Been planning for H's B-day, which was yesterday and went pretty well, thank you very much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

4. Been helping a dear friend through a difficult time -- the sudden death of her brother in a freak accident. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Yes, when it rains it pours.

Nice to know... as you stand by the side of the road getting drenched to the bone... that there's always someone here at MB like good ol' Mr. W... just waiting to drive by and splash a little mud on your rain-soaked clothes.

Very classy, indeed.

lol,

Smart Cookie,

I sincerely apologize if you took offense. Reading it again today I realize how easy it is to perceive this was a slight directed at you. It's probably impossible in writing to explain but it was a joke directed at Nottoday to get him to think you were possibly posting on some other made up board called "General Discussion:Misdirection" and have him go look for it. The joke being I was attempting to "misdirect" him. The rest of the text was merely to make such joke appear more believable as if there actually WAS a "GD: Misdirection" Board that you went to. Nottoday and I had been in email contact the previous day so trying to fool him was my goal.

Even Mrs. W had a hard time believing me after reading my post above so I understand that may not seem plausible to you but that is the truth.

Sorry again and apologize for the timing of this ill-fated attempt at humor adding to such a bad time for you.

Mr. Wondering

SC...

Mr. W is being honest with you about his intent...When I read his original post, I'll admit that I was shocked, and asked him to explain, because that is NOT Mr. W's style at all-flaming someone, I mean...Being a joker, on the other hand, IS very much his M.O.! That Silly Man!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to hear that things have been difficult for you lately...Hope all becomes balanced very soon...

Best,

Mrs. W

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Ooops.
Guess I'm a little touchy.
Sorry folks.
I'll be back with a proper update later.
--SC

SC,
I don't really homeschool- I teach k-3 in an alternative school, but we use homeschool curric. If you want some info on what we use, let me know.

I hope things are going well for you. I miss your posts and insights these days and just wanted to touch base. You are my FWW poster child...and champion of lost causes (i.e. school reform). By the way, I did take Mr. W's bait and go looking for a misdirection forum...lol

MrW. you got me. i was seriously ready to go find the board you mentioned, i did think it was an odd name...

then of course i read the rest of this thread. daaa.

hi SC. good luck with the home schooling!!!

NT,


I've been chuckling about this for hours. It's soooo true. And school reform is just the latest on a long line of lost causes. If you only knew... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, an update.

First, about the OT stuff I listed above:

--The neighborhood dispute has been resolved to our satisfaction. Hurray! You really can fight city hall! You just have to be unbelievably tenatious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

--At the last minute, My DD6's former school (a Montessori pre-school and K) came through with an amazing offer. I had called the administrator to pull our DD3 out of the preschool in order to save a little extra money toward next year's tuition. Instead, the admin., having heard what had happened with DD6's school, made us an incredible offer! They invited DD6 back to the K class, as sort-of a student/helper... with an advanced curriculum just for her... and with a discount on tuition. I was sooo touched. Technically, she's still considered a home schooler, since the M school isn't licensed beyond Kindergarten. And I'm still working with her in the afternoons. But I LOVE that school. Having here there in the mornings takes a lot of pressure off me. And for so many other reasons I won't go into (such as my D's need for a confidence boost in certain areas), this whole arrangement is just so perfect! I'm thrilled!! And DD3 is going there too, and LOVES it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Aside to JL if you're reading: There was a time in the not so distant past that I would have had a very hard time accepting such a generous and loving offer from the school. Or at the very least, I would have felt guilty about the break in tuition and the extra work it's creating for the K teacher. But as I mulled it over, I remembered what you always say about accepting gifts... and what it means to the one doing the giving. So I accepted graciously.. and simply let them now how touched I was by their generosity, and how happy I was to know such wonderful people.)

As for my R with CookieMan, where to begin....

I finally did work up the courage to ask him how he's doing with the porn. He said he's "staying away from it" (not sure whether that means mostly or completely). I asked him if it's hard, if he's ever tempted. He said yes, sometimes. He said he just fills his life with other things. My gut tells me this chapter of our lives isn't closed yet. But we'll see.

NT, remember a few months back I was actively posting about this, and you suggested he had started using it when I started pulling away from him to begin my affair? Then I told you that his porn habit pre-dates the marriage and you wondered if that's why he reacted the way he did when he found out about my affair? I never answered you. The answer is yes. After my affair ended, I told him I didn't love him and thought I wanted to split up. He immediately asked that we go to MC and started focusing on all the things he had done to damage our relationship, including the porn. So by the time I got around to telling him about the affair (about three weeks later)... he had already taken inventory of his "stuff". I asked him a few months ago if he thought his reaction would have been different if I had told him about the affair FIRST. And he said, yes, it probably would have been. He said he probably would have been more hurt and angry initially, but that he probably would have quickly come around to all the same conclusions as he did anyway.

As for me.. I continue to struggle with emotional intimacy. In fact, I'm just plain failing in this area. Example. We were on vacation the first two weeks of August and we packed it with fun plans. Lots of time as a family... and several outings or quiet nights at home, just the two of us, after the girls went to bed. We had fun. I felt happy some of the time. For fleeting moments, I even felt close to CookieMan. But the "anniversary" of my affair was often in the back of my mind. It was during a 2-week vacation around the same time last summer that I first slept with XOM. One night in particular, I was feeling really down about it all. I couldn't get the thoughts out of my mind, and I couldn't sleep. I probably should have woken up H to talk. Instead, I slipped out of bed... went downstairs... had a good, long cry... and when I had exhausted myself... went back to bed. Not once during the entire two weeks did I ever bring up the thoughts and feelings about the affair that were nagging at me.

I still feel like I'm going through the motions most of the time.

I still feel like we have incompatable views of life most of the time.

But to end on a positive note...

I think we may have worked out our first successful POJA with regard to the school crisis we just went through. When plan A fell through... we had essentially oposite opinions about what to do next. We had a rather heated discussion about it... took a break... and were able to work out a solution we were both satisfied with. And then, out of nowhere, along came the folks from the M school with a solution we could both be ENTHUSIASTIC about. Funny how things work out sometimes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gotta run.

Hi Ghost. Are you doing any better today?

An MF, thanks. Yes, I'd be very interested in what sort of curriculum you use.

--SC

I read it and thought ... "ah ha! a secret board they don't want Pep to know about "

LOL
LOL
LOL

what a marroon ~~~> Pep

Good morning SC,

You know I very much relate to where you are, "just going thru the motions", thinking you two are not compatible... so first a big hug and then advice,

STOP LISTENING TO YOURSELF!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So i'm wondering, what sort of view of life are we talking about here? Naming it can help you figure out if the two views really are all that different and even if they are different, if it really makes it impossible to work out.

I know part of our troubles is about me not letting DH really in even though i claim to really want intimacy. And I'm pretty sure I choose someone that is more comfotable being a bit emotionally distant because i am actually more comfortable being an island.

even though externally i can share my emotions, even though i can very easily show my emotions. I am very bad at accepting love. i truely think, that is the core of my problems. I just plain can't manage to believe in getting love.

but hey, didn't you see this? Maybe my prayers have finally been answered!!!

SC:

I did miss your update originally and glad that you linked here from our other post. Just a few observations.

As you know my biggest lost cause has always been promoting the principles of radical honesty. I have found that early after D-Day it is relatively easy to bring up issues related to the A because probably both are expecting it. But the further that you get away from D-Day, it probably is natural for us to try and avoid discussing these issues because we don't want to open up old wounds. However, I have recently found that sometimes I need to heed my own advice and if I try to internalize my thoughts and feelings instead of letting my FWW know what is bothering me that it just festers and all the other issues that we deal with day to day. This internalization is a dangerous curve in the recovery process and leads to resentment. Sharing our feelings with our S regardless of what we percieve their reaction is at the core of achieving emotional intimacy in the long term. How easy do you think it was for me to let my FWW know that I was almost obsessively thinking about having a revenge affair was? But once that was out in the open, a pressure was relieved from me knowing that I harbor no secrets from her and that she will help me to protect myself.

As for the other two comments above (hope my cut and paste didn't take out of context), welcome back to reality my dear friend. Aren't those feelings the way that most of us feel at least occassionally? I am reminded of the saying that nothing good ever comes easy. An A in many ways is the easy escape from our reality. Leaving our spouse when struggling with the stress of our everyday lives and trying to recover from the effects of the betrayal of an A seems to me to be an easier road than working towards recovery, but we must believe that the end result will be worth the effort. And even when the recovery efforts fail, both spouses are better individuals as a result of those efforts and certainly are more prepared to find that intimacy with another partner some time down the road.

NT

Bump for SC since she is busy fighting all the losing battles of the world.

NT

Just call me Don Quixote! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't know NT. Listen, I'm not ususally the type to take the easy way out. I'm really not. I have worked hard for everything I have, and everything I have accomplished in my life. I find parenting to be very challenging... my eldest daughter is quite a handful. Yet I also find it to be rewarding... and I love both of my kids more than I can even describe. I take responsibility for my actions. Remember that credit card debt I racked-up a couple of years ago? Someone recently asked me why I didn't go to one of those credit counseling services and see if I could get some of the debt erased. My response: Because that wouldn't be right. There's no such thing as "erased" debt. SOMEONE has to pay for it. I charged all that stuff, now it's my responsibility to pay it off.

As for relationships/marriage -- I don't expect that to be easy either, at least not all of the time. I know I could search the world over, and never find a single other person who sees everything the same way I do. Actually, I dated a guy when I was in my teens who agreed with just about everything I said.. and never found fault with anything I did. I broke up with him. It just didn't feel "real" to be with someone who rarely, if ever, challenged me in any way.

So... I get it. I get that marriage is not a bed of roses all the time. I get that there will be disagreements... and that nobody feels burning passion for his/her spouse every minute of every day. I know that, as you put it, everybody feels like they're going through the motions and that they're at odds with their spouse at least occasionally.

But it's a matter of proportion.

It's... I'm searching for the word.... exhasting, frustrating, demoralizing... to find yourself at odds with your spouse over MOST major issues/life decisions. It's not fulfilling to feel indifferent toward your spouse MOST of the time.

Here we are... one year after my affair ended... almost 11 mos past D-day... and about 7 mos past last visual contact with XOM... and I have yet to feel any deep, enveloping love for my H. Or burning passion. Moments of admiration -- yes. Moments of camaraderie -- yes. Moments of affection -- yes. Maybe that's enough for now... but not forever.

On the other hand, NT... having said all that... the part of your post about radical honesty is very well put... and well received. And I realize that until I have taken that step.. and learn to really open myself up to my H... I will not have done everthing in my power to make this marriage a good one, and to find out if I really can love him the way I want to.

I know I can meet his EN's. And cut out most of the LB's. But for me, that's "going through the motions" kind of stuff. It's the RH/emotional intimacy that's missing. I can think of three or four things right off the top of my head that I should... in the name of intimacy... be sharing with him right now. More often than not, I try to work up the nerve... then chicken out.

But I'll keep trying.

Thanks again for the reminders and words of encouragement.

--SC

A friend of mine always used to say that if two people agreed on everything, then one of them is redundant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Are you on AD's? They can have an emotionally numbing effect. Just a thought.

BB -- I've heard that saying before, too. How true.

No, I'm not on AD's. In general, I don't feel emotionally numb at all.

I have cried more over the last 13 months than I had probably cried over the previous 10 years combined. In the last couple of months, I've learned to laugh again too.

I have many moments of deep gratitude for the blessings in my life. My children -- when they're not pushing my buttons -- practically make me "high".

So.... I dunno... (shrug).

--SC

SC:

As ususual, you hit the nail on the head. It is indeed a matter of proportion for all of us...wished I had sound advice for you or me on how to deal with that one. There was a post a while back that dealt with "settling" in the relationship. Essentially, should we all just settle for what we have in spite of the negatives as opposed to reaching for the stars and having it all. I didn't post on that thread because it hit me kind of wrong. I am not willing to settle for less when I know I could have more. I think you are in the same boat. When we hit the kind of plateau in recovery when the dust kind of settles I think it is difficult for all of us to fight that tendancy that drags at least one of the partners towards complacency.

I think that your problem and mine are very similar. We are both at the point where we have had our eyes opened to what is possible in the relationship and we are both driven towards achieving our goals...not just settling. However, it appears that both of our spouses are willing to be happy just have the status quo for now.

I don't have an answer for you on how that either of this solve this but I do continue to think that the first step in the solution is RH. Telling our spouses why we are driven for more and why we are unable to accept less is the fairest thing that we can do. The problem is that none of us like being rejected and we all have some conflict avoider in us. Letting out the RH without DJ's or LB's at least gets those issues on the table. Then if we are rejected or they are unwilling to POJA on those issues, I guess in the long run we have to make decisions on what that means for our R.

I am not sure how old your youngest child is. Mine is now a freshman in high school. I have committed to myself that I am going continue to try to push this relationship to the limits while they are both in high school. That would be five years from D-Day. If we continue to fight the complacency issue by that time I figure that either I will be too old to care and be willing to just settle for what I have or at least be young enough to give it another shot with someone else.

NT