Hi all,

Last April I returned home from a business trip to hear my wife tell me she had cheated on me that weekend and wanted a divorce. Three days later she moved into a hotel with her boyfriend. A week after that she had signed a lease for an apartment and was gone. We subsequently went through mediation, she got what was hers and that was that. Since then I went through the usual routine of begging, reasoning and pleading. A couple months after she left I started dating someone else, however, unable to stop loving my wife I broke it off knowing it was the wrong time.

A month ago I came across Homer McDonald's book, "Stop Your Divorce". After reading some of the excerpts I thought it seemed like a crock... reverse psychology. In desperation I employed the tactics and an amazing thing happened. It actually worked. I stopped calling her, agreed with anything she said, confirmed everything was my fault, agreed that the relationship was hopeless, started dating again and no matter how hard it was I always had a front of happiness with a touch of aloofness. I also, even though it was so painful to do... often let the phone just ring when she called.

Last week she called about a local tragedy in the news. She called saying there was something she needed from the house. She called me all day last Saturday; I ignored the calls and she left no messages. She finally sent a text message asking me if I was around. I decided to elevate the tactic and responded to her text (an hour later) saying I think it might be a good idea if we stopped talking all together until we get to the courthouse to file the papers. She responded... "fine".

Well, yesterday, I was stuck for an emergency at work and and I called her to ask her if she had received the divorce papers from our mediator. She immediately changed the subject and conversation drifted to other things. I took the oppurtunity to mention that I had just reestablished contact with the woman I had dated earlier and told my wife that I am sorry it took so long to see that she had been right about me and our relationshiop all along.

Her response almost knocked me out cold. She said she had been trying to contact me for over a week to go to lunch and talk about going back to our marital counselor. Incredibly, I found that something else had happened by following McDonald's advice... I realized that I no longer felt like I needed this to work, that I might not even WANT it to work. I told her I had reservations about her contacting me about this now and asked her why she did. She completely decompensated and said forget it, that she's happy my life has been so great without her and to have a good life with my new friend. She hung up.

That night, worried and curious I went to her apartment and knocked on the door. Her boyfriend answered. Cordially, I introduced myself and asked if my WW was home. I went in and my WW arrived at the door shocked to say the least that I was there. In fact, she was livid. "What are you doing here", "You have no right to come to my house"! All of which was completely valid. I apologized saying I was worried and I'd never bother her again. I couldn't help but notice that her apartment was in complete shambles, dirty, cluttered and cramped. Walking out, I thought, "oh my god, she is not doing well".

By the time I had gotten 100 feet down the road toward my car she had run out of the house to catch up with me and reaffirm that I should not have gone there. She was right, I agreed. She ended with "Go see your prescious Lacey, you don't care about me anyway". I responded, "Why does that even matter, you want him". She turned and stomped back into the apartment.

A flurry of text messages arrived as I drove home with a big smile on my face. Each of which I responded with comments like, "You are right", "Yes, there's something wrong with me, tonight proved you're right about me again.". "I am ok with this, its a small town, and maybe this is a good thing to all meet now". I even said, "He seems like a nice person. He has kind eyes. You made the right choice." and "You're a cute couple, I'm really happy for you, hold onto each other." All of which infuriated her even further until finally she called to fire both barrels at me. I laughed it off and reassured her not to worry, that everything would be over soon and I'd do anything I could to give her the divorce she wanted as quickly as possible. Everything was going to be fine."

That ended the day's spectacular events and I have not heard from her yet. However, I am very curious to say the least as to what's going on in her head right now. I'd like nothing more than to go back to counseling with her and see what might happen. It has been almost a half year since she left and I know that, even though she has expressed interest on her own accord to try again, we will tragically most likely end up divorced.

I'm not exactly sure why I'm writing all this, maybe to just vent. But I will definately post again as events warrant.

Hang in there everyone, life gets better!

Peter,

I must say, reading every word of that post put the biggest smile on my face! Good for you for being able to do everything you did!! I'm so excited for you because you've come such a long way and you sound like a real trooper! Hats off to you indeed!

I remember last year when my husband left, I was feeling extreme despair, hopelessness, major depression...and I did all the classic betrayed spouse actions. I cried to him, begged, pleaded, owned all the blame, told him what was great about our marriage, begging to work things out... It wasn't until a few months later that I realized that I needed to play his game. I needed to let him know that I was just fine without him...that I CAN be a ME without a WE.

He left January '05. I begged for about 3months...when that didn't work, I just went dormant. Kept to myself and started working on me. I changed my hair, lost weight, went out and did the things that I enjoyed, and just tried to BE single. I stopped all contact. If he called I would just let it go to voicemail...and believe me that was very painful. I wanted so badly to pick up that phone and hear him tell me, "I made a big mistake and you're the love of my life." That didn't happen...until Nov. '05.

All that time I stopped talking to him. I asked his father to not tell him anything about me because I felt that it wasn't any of his business. I waited for the divorce papers...they never showed.

He calls me Nov '05 to talk about our car...yea right. There was a hidden agenda there. Come to find out, that was the only way he could make the call...to talk about 'business'. It went from there.

We are together again and our marriage is the BEST it has EVER been. We're madly in love again and we're making BIG plans for the future.

I absolutely believe that you are on the road to success. However, it almost sounds as if you're truly beginning to see that perhaps you don't want her back...but whatever it is that you want, you've created a recipe for success and if you stick with you it can only succeed.

Best of luck to you and I hope your WW will get her head out and realize just what kind of a guy she's trying to leave behind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Korlis

Hi all,

So, the day of my great adventure was actually Monday night. Today is Wednesday. I went to my own counselor, who I've been seeing for quite some time now, this morning and talked about what had happened. I expressed concern that after showing up she will no longer be interested, for the time being anyway, in returning to counseling.

My counselor is a really good guy, I recommend to everyone that seeing a professional therapist makes a world of difference. We put the events in perspective together and decided on a course of action.

I compiled "the list". You know, the list that we've all made weighing the pros and cons of getting back together. The pros far outweigh the cons, as it seems to for everyone. Its a good excersize and continues to be ongoing. The plan is to bring it with me to my counselor next week to talk about it.

Also, unsure what step to take next as far as communication with my WW goes, he suggested sending her Email. A form of communication that allows you to write, edit, rewrite and make precise the things you want to say. It also lets you say what you want to say without being interrupted mid-thought. It gives the other time to think about what was said and the chance to respond without an emotionally charged response. He further suggested honesty about what I am feeling and what it is I want.

At first I was a little leary, not quite ready to give up McDonald's tactics which had so cleverly helped to bring her back to the table. One of the key tenets being consistency over time. Not a week or a month but for a long period of time. But he was right after all, talking about returning to counseling leaves no room for anything but truth and honesty.

And so I sat down to write... and rewrite... and walk away from the computer only to return a while later to reread what I'd written, add something else or delete a line I didn't like. In the end what was left was a letter that I felt conveyed exactly what I wanted to say in a non-threatening, no obligation fashion. I made it clear that I truly wanted to return to counselling with her and hoped she still wanted it to. I also made clear that this was something that I did think carefully about and talked with own counselor about.

I sent it to her a short while ago. Tonight, I know she usually meets with her own counselor and I'm guessing they too are talking about what happened this past few days and the letter I sent. Assuming she read it already.

And so now I do the hard part... sit and wait. Our divorce papers have still not arrived from our mediator. Every day that goes by without them is a blessing! At least I have the satisfaction of knowing that I don't need to start grieving again from square one. No more negotiating is necessary... just sign on the dotted line and go our separate ways.

Korlis, thank you so much for your comments, a success story like your is inspiring! I want to address something you said. Part of me has in fact been questioning whether or not reconciling would be the healthiest thing for me. One irreducible truth remains, I love her with every fiber of my being. I know that the A was not the cause of our dissolution but merely a symptom. Unfortunately, it has become a major problem in and of itself. I have been rereading the Plan A and Plan B information and have been doing a lot of journaling today. I know that she had been thirsting to have many of her emotional needs met before she chose leave. I know it is my responsibily to make sure they are met. I know the reciprocal is also true.

I guess the point is, if there is ANY chance at all, I'm willing to take it. I don't want to ever look back and regret anything. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I can see that right now is a cross-road in my life that I KNOW I will look back on and regret should I not do this.

Today I feel hopeful, confused and determined.

Peter

Sounds like you're getting your ducks in a row. I know how hard it is...the pain of it is unbearable. The word DESPAIR is used too lightly these days, but when you're IN IT your outlook on life can change in a blink of an eye.

I wish I had this site to come to when I was going through this. At the time, I didn't realize what kind of support systems there could be online. And yes, hindsight is absolutely 20/20...I remember seeing things so clearly when he left. I remember thinking, "He's been telling me things this whole time and I never caught on...I never met his needs." It wasn't until later I found out that the simplest little things that bothered him just compounded and built-up, but I never knew. Now don't get me wrong, he was at fault for a LOT of things. I had forgiven him for some other things in the past, ex: physical abuse, verbal abuse...but I believed in him. And the day he left I remember saying, "I should have never stayed...I should have just dumped him back when he hit me." But I didn't...and what keeps us holding on is the deep love we share for our spouses.

You and I have much in common, Peter. I look back on this and I just remember who I used to be...and I'm glad I went through what I did. I became a very strong, independant woman. I believed in myself again! And I actually LOVED myself! I could never have said that about myself before the separation...I hated everything about me. And now...I can look in the mirror and say, "I went through what I did for a reason, and whatever that reason is I may never know, but I don't have to know. The pain I felt was temporary, but how you feel about yourself as a person affects your life."

Knowing that I came through this and now have a better marriage, a more attentive, loving spouse, and a respectful, appreciative life-time partner, I'm so thankful
for those days when I thought my life was over...because it made me so much stronger.

I see this happening in you already...your WW has no idea what she's in for. My H got a brand new woman out of this just like I got a brand new man. When the dust settles, and her mind clears of this cloud she's in, she will look at you one day and just say, "What was I thinking? You're all I ever want and need. I have no idea what I was trying to pursue. I guess I thought the grass was greener on the other side...but I went there, and all there was was a big patch of brown weeds. How could I possibly ever think there could be 'better' out there for me? I have the best!"

And just to give you an idea of what may be happening with your wife, I remember when H was telling me some of things he was saying, it was like, "Who are you?" I literally felt like I was talking to a stranger. It wasn't the person I met, fell in love with and married. He was extremely cold and mean...I found out later that he was like that with me because it was the only way he could get himself to 'disconnect'. Whatever the reason, press on because she isn't herself these days...and she'll come to realize it sooner or later.

Someone told me this when I was in my muck, and I didn't believe her. I felt like she was just trying to make me feel better, but Lord knows she was telling the truth. She told me a story about a couple friends of hers and how badly he's screwed up with his wife...but he came back after about 1yr. begging for her hand back and trying desperately to get the marriage back. When she told me this I held on to it...because their situation was leaps and bounds worse than mine...and they did it. We can too...

And even though I was holding on...it was my little secret. I told NO ONE. Everyone thought I had moved on. Everyone thought I was over him. And everyone thought that divorce was the best way to go. I put on a smile for them and told them things like, "Well, I don't need him or any man. I'm doing fine on my own." Believe me when I tell you this...word gets out! No matter how big or small the town you live in...no matter who you tell, it will get out. And word got out to him that I was doing great! Thus began the journey of him coming back to me...but one thing is for sure...I told myself this in the beginning: You cannot make him come back, you will not even come close to succeeding in that, BUT if you sit back and let it happen he will come back in his own time. If he comes back BEFORE he wants to, it will happen again and it will be harder to deal with later on.

So, Peter...as painful as it is right now, but on your best oscar performance and portray to her that you don't LIKE that the marriage is in shambles right now, but you will live happily with however life deals your cards. You may be absolutely torn up inside and you will...but if she thinks that you're moving on, or doing just fine without her, it will be much more attractive and appealing to her than if you were to constantly grovel, beg, or plead.

I know I've rambled a bit much, but I cannot stress enough how much this worked for me...but whatever you truly want you can get and you will. Time will tell...that's miserable I know, but hang in there.

Anytime you wanna talk or if you have questions about what I went through and how I dealt with something...I'm happy to share. What worked for me has got to work for someone else and I'd be happy to help in anyway.

Korlis

Korlis,

Thanks for your continued support and yes we probably do have a lot in common. A lot of what you said in your last post pushed me to all kinds of emotional extremes. I laughed, I cried, I read it again and the same thing happened.

You know, when the A first happened I talked to anyone that would listen. I sincerely regret having ever said anything to anyone at all. It has rung true that one of the most damaging things to the road of reconciliation is the advice of well meaning friends and family. Tonight, I went to my parents for dinner and my mother asked me if I wanted her "two cents". I replied, "Mom, I love you, but this isn't something I want to talk about with anyone but my counselor or [my WW] anymore." What those friends and family do not have to do is live with the choices we make at the end of the day. It is easy to make judgments based on the "half-truths" that we tell.

Its funny how you came to the same conclusion that I did about telling everyone that I've moved on and am so much happier now. In a smallish town like mine it is inevitable that she will run into them and things will be said. No one has any idea that I still ache for her, even my own parents.

As far as hindsight goes, I can't even begin to list all of the hints and even outright cries for help that she gave me. I guess at the time I believed I wanted out too. Whether I chose to ignore them or simply did not understand, looking back I want to scream out that I am fortune's fool (to borrow a quote from Shakespeare). I remember, vividly, a conversation with a friend of mine before we were separated. I had said, "My life is not what I wanted, I feel like I'm just waiting to die." I have heard countless times that, "We always thought you would be the one to walk out." Irregardless, I've been tortured thinking if I'd only just done this or said that. A trap I see that many of us fall into.

Korlis, something else you said struck me. I just said to my counselor today that, "I don't even know who she is anymore." She does seems like a complete stranger right now. For a long time I was told by those good ole well meaning friends and family that, "This is who she really is, don't you see it? She was living a lie with you." I see now that that is the most absurd conclusion anyone could draw from what has happened. I think she is truly agonizing about her life choices and I think she, like anyone in her shoes, is trying to cope with them. I think you're right that she is just not thinking clearly, and after the other day, I saw tangible proof of that. You described exactly the feeling I have that she is trying to 'disconnect' from her feelings toward me.

I'm afraid one of our biggest obstacles at this point is her pride. I don't know how to convey to her that I do not judge her without sounding like I'm grovelling again. For now, its something I've decided to just leave alone. Because of that I've taken to heart your advice that this can only work when she chooses for it to.

It is hard... unbelievably hard! The pain, the impatience, the doubt and the knowledge that things could be so much better if only she'd see it. Frustration is one word I've come to know very well. You are right that I can do nothing to make her see it. So, like my namesake, I try to be a rock. To hold steady through the storm and remain a foundation to a beautiful life that she can return to. Truth be told I feel more like an egg. Trembling within and surrounded by the thin veneer of a shell.

I am resolved, though, to continue living and learning to like myself again. One thing that I see happen to many of us in this situation is the complete stripping of our identities, our self esteem and our self confidence. We question everything and become filled with self doubt. I feel fortunate enough to be moving past that, yet it breaks my heart every time I read a post from someone who is struggling. Korlis, I believe you that in the end I will end up much happier with myself after surviving a journey such as this.

With that said, I continue to wait to see if she responds to my letter and which direction this will take. I have to go turn off my brain for a little while.

To everyone else out there in the trenches right now, you are not alone! There is no such thing as "false" hope. Hope... is hope.

Peter

PeterAc,

Abso-friggin-beautiful! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please,please post on GQII

Late last night my WW's reply came in. I'm at work now and can't go into too much depth. Korlis, would you mind emailing me at [email]PeterAC500@hotmail.com?[/email] I'd like you to take a look at something and tell me if any of it sounds familiar.

I need some time to think, but I'm looking forward to posting this afternoon.

Today I feel hopeful, tired, thoughtful.

Peter.

Last night my response arrived. Let me cut and paste the key points in her letter. It opened with, “I am sorry for any mixed messages I might have given you. I have been through a lot in my 32 years and still continue to make mistakes, which scares me. In all honesty, I haven't sat and felt that I have truly missed you or our relationship. I care about you and don't want you to hurt. I was considering counciling, if for nothing more than to set aside all doubts and confirm divorce is the right thing.

It closed with, “I was so tired of feeling alone, angry, empty, and unattractive. I cant handle the thought of the pain of going back and then just realizing things are the same. Too much hurt. I guess I am saying that we need to fill out the paperwork for divorce and stop hurting each other.”

Somewhere in the middle was, “I wish this wasn’t my life right now. I wish I was married, pregnant, and a happy homeowner but I think trying to come back will cause more pain then it is worth. I have too many doubts about us being able to make it work”

In between was an itemization of everything I’ve done wrong during the past 5 months since she left. I have been on an emotional roller coaster dealing with the A and to sum up her sentiment… I am unstable and unable to change. She is right, I know I have had up days and down days. I’m not sure anymore if she’s wrong. This is why I originally posted that I wasn’t sure I wanted this. Talking with her saps every ounce of strength out of me.

After reading her letter I responded with another. It was long, detailed, quoted information from so many sources, and I talked about how much I’ve been working on the marriage while she was gone. I discussed emotional needs, what we were doing wrong and how we could fix them. I talked about Plan A and the four basic rules for a successful marriage. Worse than this, I defended myself and my actions.

Basically, I caved in. This morning I sent her a text saying I thought her idea to go back for a final visit was a good idea and that I’d schedule it; if she didn’t walk out with an immediate sense of positive results then we’d file the next day. She said she did not want to leave OM and that she didn’t want to go to counseling. I asked her to read the letter I wrote and to reconsider.

I have let myself down by taking a giant step backward. I believe my best course now is to return to a no contact policy and wait for the papers to arrive. I was so much healthier this past few weeks when I avoided her, communicating with her hurts so much. I really feel like she is intentionally screwing with my head. This whole idea of - I wanted to go back to counseling but nope, too late. This is not the first time she’s said that. On two other occasions she’s told me she was just about to change her mind but now its too late. I remember a comment she made, “And to think… I was having doubts.” I can’t handle the proverbial carrot dangling in front of me and then being snatched away at the last second. She casually says, “I am sorry for any mixed messages I might have sent you.” She has no idea what that does to me.

Anyway, she sounded lucid enough in her letter and I believe she can be happier with the OM than she ever was with me. So that, my friends, is that. The bright side is that divorce should occur within a month after filing and there will be closure. As for the second letter I sent, it can only do more damage so I wouldn’t keep your fingers crossed for me.

Something I see many of us do, is convince ourselves that the WS is screwing up their life and they will rue the day they ever left. In some cases that may be true, but not this one. I think she’s going to be happy. I think it would be presumptuous and egotistical of me to think she couldn’t do better. On the contrary, I think she already has. I read in someone else’s post that self worth should not be defined by the actions of the WW. That is a great piece of advice. Out of sight, out of mind. I think my best course of action is to just commit to moving on and having fun with the new opportunities available to me.

I can’t stand it!!!!! I just got off the phone with my WW. She agreed to go to counseling now. Here’s a few of her choice excerpts from that conversation. “95% of me says there’s nothing to go back to.” “ I don’t want to leave the OM.” “This was my councilor’s idea to begin with, I never said I wanted to get back with you.” “Nothing was ever good about our relationship.” “The thought of ever being intimate with you again sickens me.”

What am I doing? Do I believe these things? Do I shrug them off? Am I honestly to believe that there is some intangible redeeming quality about myself that is even worthy of her? Why is it so easy to believe the bad things people tell you about yourself. I love her so much and yet she says these things to me. My responses, “yes you’re right.” “I don’t know how you could ever forgive me.” “I know he’s a better man than I ever could be.”

I feel like I should just let go because my reality fragments into disarray when I talk to her. She doesn’t even want to go and has clearly stated that she can’t see how it will help. So, why is she going? To shut me up? Do I dare cling to hope… bitter-sweet hope? Should I just say forget it? And here, just 10 minutes ago I was quoting someone’s advice about not letting their actions define you.

Someone please tell me what to do. Someone please think for me. We’re going to do an intense 3 hour therapy session. I should be happy about this., but I can’t stop crying. I can’t help but think this is a waste of my time. I don’t even know if I should make the appointment.

I gotta take a nap, my brain is in total overdrive.

Tonight I feel... worthless.

Peter.

Man Peter, what a story! It seems to me that the "Last Resort Technique" as Michelle Weiner Davis calls it was working on your WW. Then your truthfull e-mails put her right back in WW mode. You can read my posts for my sordid story, and in my situation I am not one to offer much advice, but I think I can help a little. I feel in all the self help books that I have read that following McDonald's advice during your 3 hour counseling session might produce the results you want. Take full responsibility for everything, don't tell her you love her, don't beg, don't grovel, blame yourself, and as difficult as it might be dig down deep and act like you have had an awakening and that your life means more now than ever. You have a path in life and if she doesn't want to jump on the Peter train, it is her loss. I read a lot that Self-respect and Dignity in the face of rejection may not only produce a WW to do a 180, but it will help the BS to move on with their lives as well. Typing this, I feel like a hypocrite for I fought, cried, grovelled, and dropped the I love you's like it was going out of style. The truth is though that I am still seperated and my wife has retained a lawyer. In typing the advice to you I am hoping it seeks into my own subconcious mind so that I too can move on with my own dignity and self-respect. Obviously following McDonald's advice is hard as ******, but the converse is to produce the same results as we have been getting...A WW and an impending divorce! Best of luck to you. I will be following your story. Pray! Pray! Pray!

Clingintohope,

Thanks for your kind words, by request I've moved my thread to GQ II where it continues. Here's the link:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3092952

I'll take a look for your posts as well.

Peter