To make a long story short, last month my husband of 8 years told me he was no longer "in" love with me and wanted a divorce. After one of the most devasting weekends of my entire life, he agreed to stay with me and try to work things out between us. During this last month, if I try to ask questions that are causing fear, doubt, etc., he gets angry with me. He is trying to "show" me he loves me, which I really appreciate, but there are some things I need to discuss. He feels he has already told me "once", and he wants it to go away like a bad dream. Is there anything I can do to help him understand I need to have verbal reassurances and to talk to me? There was not a "physical" affair involved (or so I've been told), but there are internet chat room affairs involved.

We are seeing a counselor for the first time later today. I have also asked if he would be willing to read Dr. Harley's books with me.

Sorry that you are in this sitch. Who is the other women in your H life? He sounds very much like there is someone else. Nothing physical still does not mean that there is not an EA going on. You need to snoop around and prove to yourself that there is or is not someone else in your H life. Don't ask him, he will probably not tell you the truth. See for yourself and if there is noone else then you can work on your marriage together. Keep readign the many posts here on this site, they do help.
good luck,
M2L

Thank you. I have done a lot of reading on the web site, this is the first time in the forum. I find it so hard to believe the problems I am reading about. Probably unrealistic, but I hope everyone out there will have happy endings to these devasting life experiences.

Kay Roy,

Welcome to MB’s.

I’m truly sorry that you had to find us under these conditions.

First and foremost please open your mind and stick a little idea in there that you are going to feel much better about yourself in the near future.

Right now you’ll just have to trust in that idea.

Try to post on this thread so everyone can follow the developments in your M.

It hurts to admit but I too had an internet A, so I have some idea of what is going on in your situation.

EVERYTHING that you stated in your post is perfectly normal everyday fodder from the typical wayward spouse (WS).

We call that fog talk.

Please make certain that your new Marriage Counselor is pro marriage. This is extremely important as you wouldn’t want to take a broken car to a mechanic that doesn’t like to fix cars.

He’ll tell you to get another one.

Read everything on this site that you can get your hands on; particularly all the wonderful free advice and columns that Dr. Harley has generously provided at the main page of the site.

Ask your H if he will also read the same.

It is vital to the recovery of your M that you verify that your H is having NO CONTACT (NC) with the OW period. There is no compromising this critical concept.

You and your H are about to start rediscovering each other in a way that you never have before. I’m excited for you because even though you feel like absolute crap right now there is an opportunity that likely did not exist for the two of you before all of this to be something wonderful together.

BTW, I’m not just a former wayward spouse, I’m also a former betrayed spouse. My W had an emotional and physical A with another man.

Keep posting, reading, doing MC, and talking with your H.

Progress is measured with a micrometer around here so don’t be discouraged if you don’t see stellar changes in your M right away.

Stay that MB course.

Best regards,

This is a classic letter ... applicable when your adulterous spouse is not willing to disclose the details of the affair ... but wants to recover the marriage ...

Here ya go!

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Thank you so much for your reply and support. My H and I had both been married previously, we both said we'd never marry again, till we met. To both of us, we had a match made in heaven. During the last two or three years, there was always some family conflict (most caused by our youngest daughter, age 14-16), that always prevented us from taking the time we needed for each other. He never acted any different towards me, but our lack of contact was pushing him away from me without my even realizing it. When he told me he wanted a divorce, he told me he has been unhappy for almost a year now, had no feelings for me, etc. I was in shock, I love my husband with all my heart, I truly never saw this coming. I never reacted in anger, but I did fall apart. A couple days later he left for a couple of hours, came back and said he wanted to talk. He told me about the internet "friends", emails, etc., and that he wasn't thinking about anyone else except himself. He figured if he was single, he could...He told me the women he was speaking to did not live around the area, but he lied. A week went by and I checked out his cell phone #'s while I was looking for our daughters #. A couple #'s looked suspicious and I wrote them down. I held on to them for over a week, then finally looked up the #'s in the white pages on line. One # turned out to be a business, the other # was a personal cell phone #. I called the #, a woman answered. I made believe I had a wrong #. I was going to call her back, but chickened out. I waited a couple hours and called my H to ask him about her. He told me he had met her on the internet and they had been talking on the phone. He says he never went to meet her. She lives three hours from me. I have my doubts and it is eatting away at me. I don't know if I should believe him, since he already lied to me about the women not living around here. There is still so much more to it than this, but this is the jist of it. I am going to start reading Dr. Harley's book this evening, I hope I can also get him to join me. I am aware he loses interest in reading things that are not entertaining, such as novels.

I leave for my MC appt in a few minutes. I feel kind of apprehensive, scared, etc. The unknown...

Thank you for listening!

Good luck Kay_Roy,
You have many more friends on this site than you know. Please keep in mind that the weekends are pretty slow around here though. I last thing that I can give you right now is try to spend min 15 hours alone with your husband each week. Read up on that part and keep posting here. There are many many good, helpful people here to help you.
God Bless and try to take care of yourself as best you can, it will get better.
M2L

Kay_Roy,

I really hate to give this advice....but you need to find out the truth once and for all. Put a keylogger....they are pretty easy to install and invisible....on his computer so that you can read what he's saying to these women. See if they mention meeting, or other details. Maybe it's just "emotional" but if he's been secretive....I'd find out for sure. After you read this....let me know because I'm going to delete it just in case he shows up here at any time.

(((((((((((((KR))))))))))))))))))

The weekend is over, it went fairly well. We had our first MC appt Friday. It went better than I thought, fairly emotional, but ok. She feels we need counseling on communication and how to express our feelings/needs to each other. Once we were out of the session, he was open for listening/talking. So I explained to him two of my greatest concerns/fears. #1 being, even though he has said he is staying I am afraid that he really doesn't want too and #2 my concern as to whether or not he has had a "physical" affair with someone and I didn't want to find out later down the road. He did talk to me to help alleviate these concerns and I felt really good about things after. I really want to believe what he is telling me. I told him I "forgive" him for the "on-line" affairs. That seemed to make him feel better. We went out to eat after our talk and came home and watched old John Gray videos and discussed what we watched on those.

As I said I really want to believe what he is saying to me, but sometimes when I am by myself and have too much time to think, all these doubts start creeping in. I don't want my insecurities to affect progress that we are making. He was so good at hiding his feelings for the last year; I just feel so lost sometimes and don't know what to do. I use to think I was such a smart woman, now I feel so stupid cause he so easily deceived me. I wish I didn't feel so confused.

thanks for listening

"[greatest fears], #1 being, even though he has said he is staying I am afraid that he really doesn't want too "

That should not be your fear right now. The most important thing is whether or not he really is going to stay. If he really is, then the "marriage builder" techniques can help you help him want to, as more time goes by.

The biggest issues in that area are:

1: is he going to be willing to tell you, truthfully what he needs (aka "emotional needs")

2: are you willing to do what it takes to fulfil them.



("em

Thanks, you are right. He says he is staying and I have to believe that. He says he will read His Needs, Her Needs as soon as I finish the book. I would also like to take the home course, but I'll wait to see how the book reading goes first before I suggest it. I hope he will be truthful with me, cause i WILL meet those needs. Getting him to talk is difficult; hard to believe we use to tell each other everything; I'm not sure how to get him to tell me what it is he needs. We have had such a great marriage, that I'm still "numb" about the whole situation and it's been five weeks. I wish my brain would stop letting the "doubts" creep in. Sometimes it is so difficult to keep positive thoughts.

thanks for listening, any advise on how to get him to talk?

Kay-Roy,

""thanks for listening, any advise on how to get him to talk?''

Three or four Grey Goose martinis, for starters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My FWW's affair started in a chat room. Progressed to phone calls, and finally to meeting at a local Best Western! We are in SoCal and the slimy OM was in PHOENIX!! That is 6 hours away! PLUS, this went on for 3 years!!

So don't think that the OW being 3 hours away is anything to worry less about. It is only 1 1/2 hours to meet halfway!! (how romantic and exciting!-()- unfortunately MB does not have a little PUKE FACE icon which should go here)

IMHO your H is revealing only the tip of that iceburg. I could be, and hope I am, wrong.

But why would he spring this on you, wanting to split, from just chatting these chickadees up in the chat rooms? Oh yeah, he is calling them too. Hhhmmmmmm.

Get thee to your phone bills and check out the ##SS. I believe it is time for big time snooping, specially because he is not talking, right??

krk

KR:

I was the WS. Mine didn't start in the chat room, but in the office and I never expected it. But away we went. 4.5 years later it all exploded.

But, you are here, and you have been to MC with your husband. You are on the right track. Your husband is as well. He admitted to you that he was torn up for getting into an EA. It could be a PA, and you can and should snoop to find out more. You can be a Sherlock, but do you have to? My BS did not have to, I revealed everything, right from the start.... Do you feel that he is being honest? You didn't see it coming. You felt that the M was strong. But your H was troubled, and tempted by another. HE was exposed. But trust your senses, if he is being honest, then you only need to search as much as you think you have too. Trust, but verify...

Now, to get your WS to talk? Go to MC and let him talk afterward. Do not get to critical, or interupt him to much. If he talking, why get in the way? You will get a chance to answer and elaborate later. Learn the vocabulary of HNHN to find out what caused him to look elsewhere. Review Plan A info to make yourself irresistable! It amazing the changes brought about by spending 15 hours with your spouse! (some good quality body oil works wonders as well, but I digress)

You have your doubts that he still wants you. He is there isn't he? My BS thought I was going to dump her for a new one 5 years into our M, but I was still there 5 years after the A started. I came home. We talked. She had huge fears, that I wouldn't want her, that she would put a foot wrong and that I would go for the OW. Lip service would have doomed our relationship, but actions talked. Doing HNHN, MC and talking, were the actions that proved to her that I had made her the choice.

Also, why is he waiting until you finish reading HNHN for him to start? Read it Together! Let him read it first! My spouse would read self-help books all the time and ask me to read them. Bah! nothing wrong with me! But, I never read anything. It was a cop-out. Read a chapter at a time, discuss each chapter before going on to the next one, that is a conversation starter...

lousygolfer,

I appreciate your insite and the suggestions of others, he did talk after the last (2nd) MC session. I believe my H, he did not have a PA. After everything I have learned from him, he would of told me if he had. After I look back over the last two years and what he has stated of our life together, I can not blame him for his actions. The only mistake he made was not telling me how I was making him feel. My only prayer is that it is not too late to get back what we had. To be perfectly honest, I am in my mid 40's. I have been going through menopause for the last couple of years. I started feeling old and unattractive (my H will differ with my opinion of myself, but I wasn't listening). Because of how I felt about myself and the changes my body was going through (and still is), I was not meeting his needs. He didn't know how to talk to me about how I was making him feel. So all those wonderful woman on the internet were giving him the ego boost he needed. He decided if he left me, then he could have the real thing. My actions made him feel that I was not in love with him, that I didn't care, he felt unattractive (definately not), etc. So he fell out of love with me. I am working on my lack of sex drive, and working on getting my H to start discussing issues with me.

By the way, I fired my MC. Not what i was looking for in a counselor. IMO my H and I know what the problems are, and we want to build our relationship, not dredge up every mistake we've ever made since we were teenagers. My H told me he is willing to try and work on things, but he also told me he still might end up leaving. The thought of him leaving is affecting my health, I am still very much "in love" with my H. My only wish is to make this work and for him to feel the same way about me again.

My H came home last night from a three day business trip. I was so scared of what he might say. I was worried he might have decided he liked being on his own and would bring up leaving again. It ended up we had a very enjoyable evening together. I believe he really has the conviction to try and work our problems out. I just wish I could shut my brain off from worrying. I wish I knew what he spoke about with these other women so I could do the same, but I'm not sure he would tell me if I asked.

This is a great letter. I haven't used the letter, but I have quoted some things that I read in it during our talks. Thank you