I realize that in the grand scheme of things, I probably haven't been here long enough to have earned ranting rights. I apologize in advance.

I there ANYONE out there who still believes in waiting until marriage for being intimate? Does everyone believe in trying it before you buy it? Since my divorce, I've chosen not to give my body to someone who has not chosen to love me in a committed marriage.

It is difficult - I have dated some nice guys and have been VERY tempted. I won't start anything I can't finish because mostly I will, if that makes any sense. When it comes right down to it, I have made up my mind not to compromise myself on this one. I have lost several men over this.

At times, like right now, I question myself and my motivation for doing this. I've come to believe as I've gotten older that self-control builds trust in one another's character but at times, I think I must be the only living breathing soul that still thinks this way.

Are there others or are we becoming extinct?

well, in a perfect world we would wait until marriage. i have a lot of respect for those who do. i will not give myself sexually to someone unless i have deep feelings for them and i know it to be a long term relationship. i get tooooo emotionally involved once intimacy has happened. that is a very deep connection for me. so, no i do not wait until marriage, BUT, i don't just freely give myself to a man either. if i am casually dating someone, no way. i did make one mistake right after my marriage ended, with a friend. we had sex and thot it would be ok... i don't know what we were thinking. needing to feel desired maybe... dunno. but i was a basket case for days after and knew i am just not cut from the casual sex cloth.

for me, it takes a committed long term relationship, or one i perceive to be, in order for me to be intimate.

i don't think you are a dying breed but do believe you will have a hard time finding a man who is willing to wait, even a christian man (if you are christian). people will say, find a man at church. well, doesn't mean they are gonna wait for intimacy til marriage!

this is just me.
mlhb

It's tough. Guys nowadays mostly expect it - with some rare exceptions.

In my experience it didn't take more than a few dates to see that a guy was incompatible. I didn't have much of a problem keeping my distance from a guy for two or three dates while I figured out if I even wanted to see them more or not.

My guess would be that no guy likes to hear "wait a very long time" connected to the phrase "get nukki".

There has to be something to the AA one day at a time. When you meet someone promising, and you want to continue the relationship, tell the guy you'd like to get to know him and suggest waiting for a bit. Then a bit longer, etc.

V.

I know maybe two or three young men (early 20s) who are still virgins.

I was still technically a virgin when I married at 23. (a lot can happen that is not intercourse...), and I plan on waiting until I am married again for intercourse.

Not that I can guarantee that. I was married for a few days shy of 15 years. I really, REALLY like sex. (like anyone does not...) But I think I can wait. HeII - It's been over two years anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You should re-name your thread: Where have all the "Good Men" gone?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know Christian people who are not waiting.

As for me.... I can wait. (can you say 3 week engagement?) I need to tell my son - "Yes - I DID wait."
That is important to me.

You will find your man. Although church guys are not always good - you probably have a better chance at church.

Keep praying for him. I am praying for my next spouse. I have no idea who she is. But it is nice to have a head start...

far

OK, honestly, as a guy I've got the same concern. The idea of meeting women and getting to know them one on one does not scare me; what scares me is that it seems like "dating" has an expectation of romance, and you'd better get to it quickly.

Reading through women's online profiles, I am struck by how many of them talk about things like cuddling. Um...sorry, I like to do that too, but it ain't going to happen for a long while in any relationship with me. I believe very strongly in waiting for marriage, and I see no good coming out of getting all revved up with nowhere to go. Kissing...now that just seems like a bad idea, given any kind of sex drive and...uh...yeah, I've got one. I have no real basis for comparison, I guess, but to me it seems like a pretty strong one. So keeping things at a platonic level is the only way I'm willing to go until we're seriously talking marriage - and even then I don't believe it's appropriate to go past first base.

In our impatient and sex-driven culture, this seems to me like a nearly guaranteed method of convincing women that I'm not interested in them, and/or of depositing me securely in the "just friends" box.

I have the same feelings as you. I am an older woman, my marriage ended after 25 years. I have been dating...and the 1st guy...it was okay dating...and then one day he got real friendly and I put a stop to it. He then told me he will never have a committed relationship again. He will never marry and he just wants a permanent relationship with sex. His statement was much longer than this. Needless to say, he was gone.

I dated 2 other guys...and the one I felt a Red Flag but couldn't put my hand on what it was. We did lay on the carpet and listen to beautiful music. He put his hand on my back and I cuddled up to him. It was nice...but I had my guard up. He wanted a marriage, but there was a hidden secret and I found out he was an alcoholic.

I am dating a wonderful man. I am still scared and have my guard up. We have been dating for almost a year and we have talked about our past marriages and our desires. I told him up front there will be no sex...for I am saving my body for marriage. I am a christian and very active in my church and I am following Gods path. He is very respectful and we do cuddle quite a bit...and I love it. He does massage my hands and feed and my back. I massage his back and neck and buttocks. (I am a massage therapist). Of course this is done with our clothes on. We have not even seen each other in swimsuits...for we have both been busy with getting ahead. He is starting his own business...and I just completed schooling (fulltime student) and now taking more classes to get my BS.

To get into sex right away is only lust. Each other need to see if they are compatible and to see if there is a connection. I don't care what a man feels when I say there will be no sex. If that is all they want...let them find it on the corner street or wherever. I know that my life is centered around God and following Gods path. To have sex and then each go to their own home...I would feel dirty and worthless. Like I was being used. This is just my internal feelings and I would feel so dirty.

Anyways...I am one that is a prude I guess...but I am a prude for my Lord and my body. Blessings.

F62,

I agree with your principles. It causes me a lot of concern because I have the sense that finding a woman who shares that view will be difficult.

I have been intimate with exactly one woman in my life. Now she's my XW.

-AD

Wow - It sure is nice to hear that there are others who feel the same. Especially from the men. I tend to be sort of a female sexist and generalize that it is women who have difficulty finding a man who will wait - I forget that men can have the same problem.

I've always thought that as females, it is easy enough to lead a man to do the wrong things - just ask Adam! Damn that Eve! I personally have made the choice to lead a man to do the right things - that seems to be a real challenge!

Yes, I am a Christian and that is my biggest reason for abstaining. It also seems that we live in a world of instant gratification but that's not for me. I believe that delayed gratification is the best but in most areas and sex is no exception.

Thanks for the ancouragement!

I am with mlhb...I have dated several guys since the D. And three of them with potential "could be"'s...One is trying like heck to get back w/me now...and still talking to the cute pa. And then there was J...the xbf from college.

I do not think without some kind of seriousness/relationship that there could be intimacy. Casual stuff...or fwb's as they are called now, aren't for me.

And having gone out with a few of these new age Christian dudes (from da biiig church out here), I've learned that they don't exactly believe in abstination....which I do unless there is a relationship and it's not something taken lightly.

It's a scary subject for me...and honestly I've discussed this w/my girlfriends...and reason I dated J this summer? And D the guy trying to get back w/me?(investment dude)???why? I knew them in college. I knew them before...and yea, I had a significant history with J. I am terrified of the whole "new guy" stigma..

I have read some books about this stuff...since there was over a 10 year gap in dating for me...so I had to get up to date on it.

Today, people are more likely to do what is called a hookup....I had to actually LOOK THAT ONE UP! Read a study that many very young adults/college age kids do that rather than have a relationship...it's a "meet my needs now" kinda thing..and imho, immoral and risky. And then there is the whole fwb issue. Friends w/benefits? What is that? Stuuupid if you ask me. The only benefit of being my friend, is the friendship! It's like the whole line being blurred between being friends with a guy/girl and dating them. It's like having the connection wihtout having to do the dating or courtship. It is scary b/c I know two nurses at work who fell in love with their FWB. I shuddered. Told them that if this is what it is...then that is ALL THAT IT IS...

So I've attempted to avoid any stuff like getting to know somebody new...and tried to date guys I've already known...or worked with (like the cute pa)...thus I know what they're about...and that's been my pattern.

Kinda like the ostrich...bigg bird...but sticks its head in the sand when frightened. I do have self confidence, but when it comes to dating issues? Totally admit I lack the experience...

I feel totally like rip van winkle...fell asleep for 11 years and found out the world had changed...and that I didn't.

Lordslady is addressing the same issue:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3064725

wow....this is an interesting subject...

many or most of us here are here because of an A and are the BS's...

being placed in this sitch was usually the last thing we wanted or was the result of actions beyond our control...

to have a relationship (marriage) that had satifactoriy SF and then to wake up suddenly and have an important need (im speaking for myself) cut off....

is that fair or right????

is it fair to say, that a person now must forego an IMPORTANT need whether male or female because someone else chose to place them in this unwanted position???

a forced CELEBACY so to speak...

i preach ABSTINACE to my teenagers, however, hypocritical as it may seem to some....

its harder to understand the "loss of freedom" than to miss "something you havnt had yet"....so to speak..

if a person has religious convictions regarding this subject then thats their choice...

in my opinion its neither RIGHT or WRONG...but i also think a man will fulfill it through porno or other outlets...(men CANT forego sex like a some women) i truely believe that!

so being adults in a relationship and with holding an important EN from your partner....that may cause more harm in the long run than taking a HARD line stand on an issue as IMPORTANT as this...

******....thats what romance novels, movies, songs, sitcoms and the internet are all about isnt it???

but obviously its an individual choice....

i went through a phase that im NOT very proud of as a "man Hoe" shortly after my D, it was how i coped along with alcohol and other things....

looking back, those were huge mistakes but its part of my past...

although SF ranks HIGH on my list of EN's, probably in the top 2 or 3....

i would not say that dating someone who felt strong religious beliefs about the subject would be a "dealbreaker"....but along the same lines, this person would NOT be fulfilling one of my EN's...

so whats right or fair about that???

i have not been faced with this decision.....

i doubt i would continue in the relationship....if i were...

whew...this was deep....

my brain hurts now! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

yea right sturg, admit it.. you just can't keep your little cop paws to yourself now can you? lol

mlhb

Wannabophim,

Thanks for the link but I get a “page not found” error. Under what section can I find that thread? I’d like to read what others have to say. Thanks.

Sturgis,

The question isn’t about what’s fair. We all know that life isn’t always fair.

Yes, I’m a BS and have gone through the same feelings that you describe. Even though my registration date doesn’t reflect it, I’ve been divorced for 6 years now. I missed sex terribly but I also discovered that I wouldn’t die without it. I’m guessing I’m a little farther down the road than you are. I still sense a lot of anger in your post – I don’t feel angry about being left and I’m only concerned with what is right for me, not what is fair.

I mentioned somewhere earlier that I’m a Christian. That is my biggest reason for abstaining. I think when God says DON’T, it’s for a good reason, not because he’s a killjoy. He always has our best interests at heart – people don’t necessarily do the same.

That being said, I enjoy sex as much as the next person but only in the proper context. Sex without commitment isn’t a promise, it’s a lie. There is plenty of research about the powerful bonding chemicals (oxytocin) that are released during orgasm. People often rush to find out if they are sexually compatible while overlooking other important areas of compatibility only to find out that they are already bonded to someone who isn’t right for them. I’m completely convinced that breakups would be far less painful if sexual intimacy hadn’t entered the picture. Let’s face it – we often have a way of bringing on our own misery.

I agree with the importance of meeting EN’s but I think some needs are best met after marriage. It might be outdated and old-fashioned but it’s what is right for me. Even if it should mean that I spend the rest of my life with no SO, I find that better than compromising my values just for the sake of having someone.


Obviously, there are men who can forgo sex without commitment. A couple of them have even posted on this thread. You are as guilty of generalizing about men as I am!

Sturgis,

You said...


If I understand you, you are saying that for a woman who you date to "deny you" SF, is unfair?

So, if no woman were willing, what would you do?

Are you are afraid that an outbreak of morality will leave you the delimma of choosing between rape and marriage?

Are you hoping to prevent f62 and others from giving any more woman the idea that they should expect to be treated like a lady even if they don't "put out"?

In my view, morality has a practical basis. I believe that a person who is able to be celibate outside of marriage, is much more likely to be faithful in marriage, and a person who "sleeps around" outside of marriage, is almost certain to sleep around after marriage.

I sincerly hope and pray that there your "lifestyle choice" does not prevail.

-AD

It's in the "After Divorce" section and the title of the thread is "Where is Lordslady?"

lets see here....the title of this thread is "touchy subject-pardon the RANT"

so to whoever related that to "deny me sex, would create a choice between "RAPE OR MARRIAGE".......

you are a MORON!!!

because a person has a difference of opinion, thats the whole purpose of a RANT, is it not???

its kinda like saying, "this dosent have to make sense to anyone but me, its my world let me live in it"

being able to vent on any subject is a nice outlet...

obviously, the person who started this topic, is not only frustarted in the dating scene, but may be sexually frustarted as well...thus the RANT....

ones ethics and morality in my opinion is based on a number of things...religious beliefs are deffinatley one of them...

now, i too am a christian, i did not become a christian until my 40th birthday...so im relatively new to this and still learning.

i spoke to a friend about this subject some time ago, and what i found interesting, is that there are scriptures and commandments regarding adultery...and sex outside of the marriage while still married....

i have had a hard time finding any true sense of direction related to sex involving the "victim" of adultery, after divorce.

i would be more than open minded to here someone actually provide a bible scripture that addresses this issue without some personal interpetation..

its like the catholic church commanding people to NOT use birth control and forcing priests and nuns into celebacy...

those are rules and interpetations are they not???

what saddened me, was the person who led me to God, married a chriatian gal, they both poudly abstained from sex before marriage, after 3 years of marriage got divorced...

the underlying reason....SEXUAL INCOMPATABILITY....

this is the only example i know of that i know the back ground of....in sure there are hundreds of examples out there that someone can provide that would prove this wrong...

but, you know what they say....you dont politics and religion dont mix....

i would also throw in money and sex.....

what if after dating and waiting till marriage, sex becomes the focus because of incomaptibility???? one partner is ok with the "once a month" and the other wants it everyday??

and now that the one partner "waited til marriage" they are now frustrated over this issue......

the question would have to be.....was it worth it????

its about personal choices and consenting adults...thats the beauty of christianity....God gives us free will, does he not????

i could go on............but this was my "RANT"!!

Uhhh Sturgis,

I think you missed the point.

The lady's RANT was that all the guys seem to ASSUME that they will "get some" before they marry. Guy's like YOU, for example. The only frustration she expressed (if any) was that there were few decent men (and women) who believe that sex should be reserved for marriage.

... and Sturgis... If saving something for marriage might be a to the discovery of "incompatibility", why don't we continue down this path and try out all the hard things... See if you can raise some children together and if it's going OK, then you can get married.

To repeat my view : Sleeping around is a pattern of life and thought which undermines an individual's ability to commit to an exclusive relationship - and fuels some people's idea that they are deprived if they don't have SF regularly. Such a person might reason "I'm on a 2-week business trip (or my W is pregnant, or sick, or herself on a trip). I NEED this, so it's OK... after all, it's nothing different than what I always did when I was single."

-AD

AD,

You summed up what I was thinking quite nicely. If I wanted a man that WOULD, I'd have no trouble finding one. They are plentiful. That's not what I want.

I find that in my journey as a Christian, people either join you on the walk or they fade away. I can say honestly that of the men that "faded away" because I wouldn't, I was aways extremely thankful later. It seems like other reasons were revealed along the way why it wouldn't work. I end up feeling I've been spared.

I agree with the test of compatibility. Trying raising kids together or try taking care of the other one when they've got the flu. If sex is the only glue that holds two people together, it's a pretty fragile bond.

I also tend to be suspicious of anyone who has reached middle age and has no self control. It's usually a bad sign.

In the past, whenever I've compromised myself on something, I've found that it wasn't worth the price tag.

Well, I have to say that the few times I have tried to wait some odd things have happened. One time I had a lady accuse me of being gay. Another time I was staying at a friends cabin with a bedroom for each of us. She put my bag on the bed in her room.

So, it seems to me that waiting until marriage is not where most people are at. The issue for many of us is that we may not get married again, or for a very long time.