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We are.... I guess in recovery. For brief update on my story for those who don't know me check my sig. line.

He has been spending lots of time here at home 4-5days/week but he has still not moved home. He mostly works on the house when he is here. He has barely spoken to me this week its been really bad this weekend. I'm back to being treated like furniture and I don't like it one bit. He will only speak to me when I ask him something and its a 1-2 word response. He jokes with the kids...he is just tight lipped when it comes to me.

I've given him the EN questionaire no response...I don't think he looked at it much less fill it out. I emailed him last Monday suggesting a date night. Request ignored.

Being ignored is a BIG LB to me. I feel like telling him that I don't deserve to be ignored, and I won't tolerate it especially in my own home. That if he chooses to continue this behavior he shouldn't bother to come here. He can take the kids out when he comes to see them.

I have told him that when he acts this way I find it very disrespectful and it really bothers me and I don't want to be around him when he treats me this way. He still continues to do it.

How do I respond to him?

Last edited by ChaCha; 10/09/06 10:55 AM.

aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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bump^^


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
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cha cha..

this does not seem like recovery...
I suggest you go back to plan B...

don't you think?

ARK

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I posted this on the Recovery board....here are more details for clarification.

Quote
After a few weeks of plan B he called OW and told her he wanted his family back and put it in writing for me. I sent the letter and called OWH and made him aware. At that point FWH claimed he wanted to rebuild our family and move closer to his work away from here (and OW). He said he would never move back here he hated this town and the people in it. We live in an old house that need some TLC before we can put it on the market. I told him that I had no problem moving (lots of triggers around here) but we needed to work on US before I would do that.

I had talked to SH he suggested we spend time together working on the house and time alone...to talk about present and future but not to get into R talk because both our LB were running on fumes. I made a condition before he moved home he talks to SH. He doesn't want to do that and he doesn't want MC. BUT we did go on a date ALONE and he invited me to go to Puerto Rico with him on a business trip. Things were passionate. And we spent time working on a common goal fixing the house.

Things have been up and down. But generally going pretty well. We have had a couple arguements which I thought was good because we had always been BIG conflict avoiders in the past.

We do not have radical honesty and transparency. He has not disclosed ANY details of the affair. He is living in our RV parked on his Dad's property an hour away. He comes down a couple nights during the week and then Friday for the weekend. He generally stays over the weekend. Sometimes he sleeps on the couch...sometimes not.

His reason for not moving back home has changed to "I don't want things to go back to the way the used to be. Status quo a few years ago." I reminded him that I have changed... the house is only 15 minutes to get ready for company, I went back to work full time, we no longer are involved in community activies. I asked what he was willing to do to change status quo. His response? "Good question"

He has started settling back in to old patterns. Laundry during plan B he would take it to his brother's to do. Then after he started bringing here..but he would do it. Now he drops the duffle by the basement door and there it sits. Just after he wrote the NC letter he would make dinner for me or offer to get take out. Now he helps himself to whatever is in the fridge and shows up to the dinner table after everything is on the table and we are waiting for him.

He says he is focused on getting the house done and feels disappointed that I am not committed to the same goal. I am frustrated because I feel like he is taking me for granted, and not taking steps to improve our M.

I think I need to sit him down and talk about this.


ark^^ thanks for posting. I think I will talk to him first and if his responses are fog like and/or his behavior doesn't change...I should go to plan B. Major LB withdrawls this weekend.


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
Joined: Jun 2005
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Cha Cha - I have been wanting to post to you but did not want to sound discouraging, but I do not think your husband is committed to recovery. If he were he would be doing everything in his power to make YOU feel safe. It seems to always be the other way around. I read your post about him going out that one night and not coming home until late. That is not a man who feels remorse about breaking up his family. This sounds like a man who does not want to loose his wife and family, but also does not want to fully commit to the marriage either. Just like him ignoring you does not sound like a man who wants to recover his marriage.

I would say it is your choice what you want to do. If you think he will come around and commit and you are willing to stick it out until he does then I say ok. If you are not willing to put up with it then I think Plan B again. Your husband does not like Plan B and that is the reason he comes back so soon each time. He just does not sound ready to fully commit to recovery yet.

This is all just my opinion! You are a strong woman and you are the only one living your life to know how things really are! You will do the right thing!


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Cha Cha, he sounds like my H did before he went to the lawyer to start the divorce. I believe that my H started a recovery path as a test drive. Perhaps he wanted to be sure. I don't think your WH is committed at all. Watch your back. Do not settle for crumbs. You are not, nor ever have been furniture.


Grapes are versatile. Grapes can be sour, sweet, sublime as wine and fabulous even when old and dried out.

Me: BS
XCH: Clueless
2-DS: Bigger than me
1-DD: Now also bigger than me!

5/6: Personally served CH with divorce papers
6/6: CH F? wants to time to see if M can be saved
7/6: FCH reenters our lives to work on marriage but secretly signs papers to start divorce...what's that about?
Mediation set for November
Final dissolution in January 2007.
2008 and beyond: Life goes on...
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Sorry, ChaCha, that things have seemed to hit a "roadblock".

Does sound like you need to talk to H to see what is going
on with him and this backsliding behavior so you will know
how you want to proceed. If he's very "wishy-washy" about
his committment to recovery, does sound like it might be
good to go back to Plan B.
Your H's behavior sounds sort of like depression, or perhaps
withdrawal- could there have been any contact with OW ?

Things here have gone from bad to worse, as I found out WH
filed the D paperwork last week (although he's yet to tell
me and I haven't been served). Found out this morning that
he went to Las Vegas for the weekend, undoubtedly with OW.
I'm also still job hunting- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there my PB partner !
Slammed

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Not real recovery until he makes you feel safe, secure and cared for. Love is a word that is still far out of your reach.

Let him know that while his pants may stay zipped, his mind and heart still inflict pain.

The Ws thinks they can pretend t/b an Xws and all w/b ok. The BS needs to let the WS know that it is not enough.

That's why setting your boundaries is important. See getting the WS home isn't enough. Stopping the PA isn't enough. If the EA or it's attitudes continues in the mind and heart of the WS, then no recovery can result.

I told mine that during our several false recoveries. Each time, I told him and put the stakes for return higher....not lower, higher. He soon realized we were not joking and he was not really needed in our lives. In fact, I told him that HE as a WS taught US (his family), how to live without him. He was hurt by that statement but could see how that was true. Then I used that as a stepping stone to set the stage of how it was up to him to restore the M. Remember I also knew how to file for a D. That mindset helped me immensly and took off a lot of pressure from me in the recovery process.

L.

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Smells like renewed contact with the OW to me.

Have you spoken to her husband lately?


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Hi guys,
I don't have a lot of time to post right now. Hopefully work won't be too busy and I can respond to you later.

I have to take DS14 for an EKG this morning. I got called from the trainer at the high school yesterday to pick him up from football practice. It is probably nothing just rapid heart rate from exertion but the trainer was concerned enough to call.

I got this advice from sussed over on the recovery board and I thought I'd share. (With suss' permission and well wishes to all.):

Quote
You can't do it alone. You can do the work you need to do on YOU on your own, but a marriage is a partnership. And what you have right now isn't a partnership. Well, unless you count having a silent partner as a partnership, but I don't think that you do.

Let's get back to boundaries a little. What type of boundary do you feel comfortable in setting up for yourself? You probably would have had a little more clout if you had made a list of requirements that your H had to fulfill before you stopped Plan B but it's not too late. are you going to tolerate those old patterns, or are you going to sit him down and say to him,

"Look, I know that you don't want things to go back to the old status quo, and neither do I. However, I notice that some of our patterns are heading back that way, and I want to head them off at the pass. I know that one of your goals is to fix up the house so we can get it sold, and it's one of mine as well. However, I would like to think that fixing our marriage is also one of our goals, and the more important one as well. this is what I need (insert your requirements here - much like Daze's list that she made for her H) which will help me become more comfortable with us as a couple, which will help me focus more on the house. That includes going to some type of counseling so that we can get a head start, and so that we can figure out how we can change status quo together. If we are not equally committed to this relationship, then we have to make alternate plans (insert your Plan B here)."

Does that make sense? I am sure you can put it in much better language than I can but I think that you get the gist of the message - the marriage should be the priority, then everything else can fall into place. If he wants out, now is the time, b/c you have lots going on with you in your life and you can't keep living in limbo. you will not tolerate old patterns - and he has made it very clean that he won't either. However, there is no room for cake eating and you have to be ready to enforce that boundary.

You need to initiate the discussion. He may choose not to talk or open up to you, but at least you can say that you made the effort. And you are worth it.

xo sus


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,463
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Hi, ChaCha, I'm sorry to hear that things are so silent at home with H. I really was hoping for better for you! Thanks for sharing the info. in your above post from recovery. I look forward to hearing about your talk with H. Best wishes and take care of you!


Rin


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
Thomas Carlyle
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This is my opinion.

I would also see where he stands on living together as a married couple NOW.

I personally would not have been able to do RECOVERY without living with and sleeping in the same bed with my H each night.

Otherwise, there's too much UNANSWERED TIME for him.

The RECOVERY RULES specifically spelled out by Dr. Harley were what we followed. I think those are the ANSWER. There is NO RECOVERY without STRICT ADHERENCE to THOSE RULES.

And as I suggested before, check on whether there is resumed contact with the OW in any form. You see with his distance from you, in the RV, you can't be too sure about that, can you?


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Does he hate the town more than he loves his family?

I'm with Mimi and Sussed...the answer to the "Good question" is what action he is willing to take to start to work on your marriage?

And if he moves home, is transparent, are you willing to sell the RV, help him fix the house to move as quickly as possible?

Will you move out of range of your work? Are you worried about your own fall-back plans?

Sounds like both of you are worried...worrying is like praying for what you don't want. What you have right now is half your perception and half your actual treatment.

When you speak with him, emphasize communication (not neglect) as what you most want to work on. State your own priorities...your marriage comes first...and live that in your choices. Sounds like you're testing him to see if he's worthy to take back all the way...could that be what he's doing with you?

Tests suck.

Decide if you want the marriage or not...he's half. He comes with it. Then choose your actions.

LA

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I would love to have my H home...not WH. He was home sleeping in bed w/ me when he started his A. He is the one responsible for maintaining NC. I am not his keeper. I feel he needs to earn the priviledge of coming home. He has yet to do that. I will monitor as I need to for my own security.

Quote
Does he hate the town more than he loves his family?

That was the exact question I asked. He said one has nothing to do w/ the other...then he changed his reason for not coming home to not wanting things to return to status quo.

Before he comes home I will need tranparency, and a show of commitment to me and our M. It is a test that my H will pass but WH won't.

If he makes that commitment I'm all in. I'd sell the house as is. I'll be keeping my job...its secure, it would be a 45 minute commute to the area we are looking at. We could sell the RV or use it for family trips. I'm not really worried about fall back plans, I have a wonderful support system a secure job that pays a good salary and full benefits. I want my H but I don't need him.

Brief update:
The last couple of days have been interesting.

I have not had the sit down talk I plan to have w/ FWH yet. I've not been feeling well, my throat is just raw and it hurts to talk. BUT on Sunday we had gotten in to it a bit...I told him I felt it was disrespectful when he ignored me and I did not want to be around him when he was being like that. He didn't apologize and I think he was still angry about the house not getting done fast enough. He took the kids w/ his brother & friends out boating and spent the night. I was torn.... I was relieved because I didn't want to be around him but then I was disappointed he didn't invite me to go w/ them.

Monday when they came home he fell asleep in his chair. I put a note on his chest that I had gone to the store and the washer was available if he wanted to do his laundry.

When he woke up he was my H! I couldn't believe it. He mad actual conversation w/me. He did his own laundry, asked my opinion about painting the room, even complimented me on dinner. Then he ASKED if he could stay over and go to work from home and come back the following night to paint more.

Yesterday he called as he was leaving work and asked if I had taken anything out for dinner....then asked if he could take the kids and ME out to dinner. We continued to have conversation over dinner. Then again back at the house. No R talk. We made plans for the room but didn't paint because it was very damp in the room from having all the windows open w/ all the rain. He asked to stay over again.

So maybe things are not as bleek as I thought. I still intend to have that talk w/him later this week when I'm feeling better.


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,463
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HI, I'm very happy to hear that things are better on the homefront. Do you think it's as simple as WHs taking a nap and waking up as Hs? I think it's possible!

I don't know how well you've been following my thread but H and I had it out two Sundays ago and since that Monday morning H is back...with the exception of me finding his valentine card from OW about them being friends...she didn't write anything but a closing and her name.

I sincerely hope that you guys are taking a turn for the better. Lord knows you deserve it! I will continue to think about you and your sitch, praying that things are on the up and up for you and the kids.

Best wishes and take care!
Rin


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
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Quote
He is the one responsible for maintaining NC. I am not his keeper. I feel he needs to earn the priviledge of coming home. He has yet to do that. I will monitor as I need to for my own security.


Cha-cha:

Check out the RULES OF RECOVERY. Recovery is worked on as a MARITAL TEAM. Independent Behavior/Independent Thinking is viewed as a lovebuster according to the Harleys. It was stressed to me to work with my H with maintaining NC..working on this TOGETHER..just like you are working on your house. IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE HAVE EVER DONE TOGETHER!! I tried to always be available for him to call me when he felt WEAK. We spent most if not all of our RECREATIONAL HRS. TOGETHER, etc....Check out the RULES OF RECOVERY as written in SAA and on this website.

Quote
Before he comes home I will need tranparency, and a show of commitment to me and our M. It is a test that my H will pass but WH won't.


I do agree that he will need to commit to the marriage and to be transparent with you for sure before he comes home. But saying that takes minutes. Then, he immediately comes home and IMMEDIATELY begins to do so.

I'm saying to negotiate. Show that you want to work on BEING MARRIED and not his GIRLFRIEND. A married couple lives together AND IS OPEN and TRANSPARENT and SPENDS most of their leisure time TOGETHER. If he does not agree to this, then I agree with ark, go back into PLAN B..You are either MARRIED OR NOT... That's my point of view.


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This Harley Article discusses the FOUR RULES which I keep talking about to you.

[url=http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html]

What I did (with Steve Harley's coaching) was to say to my H something like: I've learned about this plan (noted above) that we need to closely follow for Marital Recovery. I want our marriage to recover and in order for us to do that we MUST FOLLOW THESE RULES...the rest is HISTORY...

I am kind of OCD..but I STRICTLY stated to my H that he HAD to try this RECIPE (as it is so well spelled out)...WITH ME...

I just don't see how this can be done effectively..living apart...

I began right away THE POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT on decisions regarding our children...being OPEN AND HONEST WITH HIM about my financial stuff...

In our situation, I used MYSELF as an EXAMPLE of what HE NEEDED TO DO..HAD TO DO... and he seemed to appreciate that. I've read here of other situations where the WS LED the RECOVERY. In our case, it was me....

Last edited by mimi1254; 09/06/06 02:18 PM.
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mimi,
I don't want you to think that I have not listened to your advice. I agree the rules of recovery are important and valuable. I not sure that we are actually in recovery yet. I do not have partner in this yet. Don't both spouse have to agree to the rules for them to be effective?

He has not been open to MB principles, he is refusing MC so far. I can only control my behavior.I have changed my behaviors that were LB to him, I refrain from SD, DJ, AO. I am open and honest w/ him. I consult him before I make decisions. I meet his needs when I can. I reach out to him and make myself available to spend time with him. Is it possible to follow the rules without a cooperative partner?

I would support him if he turned to me in a weak moment of wanting to contact OW. He doesn't speak of her.

How did you get your H to agree to the 4 rules? Did you just do them or did you present them as MB principles? Was he open to MC?


aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,310
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CC:

I know you're LISTENING....

I also KNOW how difficult RECOVERY is...

So..so..hard...

Quote
Is it possible to follow the rules without a cooperative partner?


YES. If you are BEING...BEHAVIORALLY..BEING A WIFE! These are the NORMAL and EXPECTED BEHAVIORS of a MARITAL PARTNER.

Quote
How did you get your H to agree to the 4 rules? Did you just do them or did you present them as MB principles? Was he open to MC?


Right after D-Day, my H agreed to speak with Steve H. and clicked with Steve. That was a God send. He had a couple of individual phone sessions with him at that time. He was reluctant at first and I think his plan was to convince Steve that his affair was OK..he didn't love me anymore, etc...I'm not exactly sure what they talked about. I think he liked it that Steve agreed that I had failed to meet his primary ENs.

My H read some of SAA and said to me that it didn't apply to him..COMICAL...

So he knew that I was sold on MB and felt that MB principles were the answer for our Recovery.. He had another couple or more sessions with STEVE upon coming home...

WOULD YOUR H AGREE TO AT LEAST TALK TO STEVE HARLEY by you saying "I feel like he can really help you/us create a better marriage?

My H refused to do any other counseling..we've had bad prior experiences but he agreed with the MB PRINCIPLES because HE BASICALLY AGREES WITH THEM..they fit with his BELIEF SYSTEM about how MARRIAGS should be. I WAS THE ONE WHO PREVIOUSLY DID NOT FOLLOW THESE RULES. I don't know if that's the case with your H. That part was easy for us.

So when I balked to Steve Harley about following the DARN RULES he said that I SHOULD HAVE BEEN ACTING LIKE A WIFE for many years when I was not. I was dishonest, acted independently, spent leisure time with our sons or friends..basically neglected and discounted my H...YUCK...

It's SOO different now..

That's sort of my story. You asked. I don't know how helpful this is but didn't want you to think that I had ignored you.

We're going away AGAIN for a FEW DAYS...

RECREATIONAL TIME... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


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Also, if I were you, I would ask him WHAT IS HIS PLAN for recovering your marriage. I would assume that you believe in the MB's approach. So what does he BELIEVE in? What does he want to do?

In order to FIGHT THIS BATTLE, there must be a PLAN!!

I suggest that you ASSERT your DESIRE to work on a PLAN with him as a TEAM to RECOVER your MARRIAGE.

His response to this approach will tell you a lot, I think.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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