I know the policy on radical honesty. I am looking at myself and my "baggage" and past behaviors.

I am struggling with maybe not so much trust issues but issues of honesty. I once read on here that the A is the gift that keeps on giving and not in a positive way either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> couldn't agree more

anyway, my issue with myself is this:
My lack of trust in H and not actually voicing that to him so that he could do whatever was needed to regain my trust has caused me a lot of grief. Please keep in mind that I know Dr. Harley's principles on this and I agree completely with them. I am a conflict avoider.

Not looking to beat up H but look at myself. I have reached the point that i don't sit and wonder what the heck is going on in his brain.

I have not been on the receiving end (to my knowledge) of this lack of trust.

To those that have...besides the obvious issue of making you feel like crap how did you react to this when it was your H or W that did not trust you?

I only know my perspective on this and could really use your perspective.

Why is it that the person that had the A and lied continuously cannot believe us when we tell them that it is easier to deal with the truth than lies? H told me one time that "I can't handle the truth!" may have been a factual statement at the time, I was an emotional wreck. Every time I think about him making that statement to me it makes me think of that Jack Nicholson in the movie A Few Good Men. To this day I so badly want to ask him why he had to steal someone else's line.

Any insight on this would be much appreciated I'd hate to let a couple glasses of awesome German Reisling go to waste <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks in advance!

Reisling? Don't you mean Riesling.. or have you had a few anyway, you naughty girl ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I think it's more important how you are going to handle the situation right now.
Have you talked to Dr. Harley about this?

The fact that you can identify your point of concern is a good thing. Now you need support to help you see that you are already headed in the right direction but need assistance to make a good plan.

That's progress. Good start.

All the best,
L.

Those in the affair only see themselves as the ones that are right and those of us who had to deal with the betrayal as only needy people. My X said the same thing...he couldn't trust me...and of course I couldn't trust him. I was there during the whole affair...and dealing with my father dying of cancer which he was diagnosed with the CA shortly after the affair started.

You need support, a good counselor is what I would recommend. Also, posting here and getting help from those of us who have experienced it is quite helpful. You need to make a good plan and assistance is needed in your plan.

Get a good start....and Blessings.

GS,

Maybe he is attributing his own behavior to you - that is, because he is not trustworthy, others cannot be trustworthy.

Sometimes things can be fairly simple like that. Might be the case here. Who knows.

But, there are probably so many underlying issues to his lack of honesty with you, and therefore his distrust in return. He doesn't tell you the truth because of his own shame at what he has done. He would have to reveal to you what he knows to be true - and risk you knowing what he knows of himself, and he is having trouble accepting himself right now. How can he possibly risk losing you by telling you the truth - it's likely he can barely stand to live in his own skin with the guilt and shame he feels, if he is like my own H. This is how my H explained it to me, why he didn't want to tell me "everything", and why he couldn't bear to talk about the details.

It made things so much harder. In the end, he finally told. Only because it came down to the reality that he would either tell me, or lose me. Turned out, the things I had made up in my own head were a thousand times worse than anything he had to confess. Looking back, it was all so stupid - he held it in for so long, agonizing, and all to keep me from hurting. I hurt for so long, and never would have if he just would have talked to me.

I agree with LoveinHim. You two need a good counselor, one who can open those channels of communication and get him talking to you.

SB

Thanks ladies! I have an appt with Steve Harley Thurs. I am trying to write down things I want to discuss with him.
My H is still in the states and I have to admit I am going a bit crazy, thinking about all of this and not being able to talk to him about it. I haven't heard from H since he left and I don't expect to. I know he needs to be able to think about all of this and I am trying to respect that. Hard

Growth,

My story is a great example of why radical honesty is important.

My FWW didn't have the you can't handle the truth line, hers was it is over, I had an A and I am not going to go into what I did. Followed by almost 3 years of lies, lies through omission, half truth's etc.

Each time I told her she was killing my trust and her credibility. Flash forward we have another one of what I called information confirmation sessions. That is where I either found the truth or deduced the truth. She admitted to everything I figured out and nothing more. Problem was that after each one of these there were new pieces that didn't fit into place. I figure it out and same thing she confirms it. In the meantime I worked on the issues she said caused her A. Only to find out she didn't really believe what she was saying but she had to justify her behavior.

Finally I told her I was done. I couldn't trust her and I couldn't be with someone I didn't trust. She still to this day hasn't been forthright. We are going to MC now and I will see how it goes.

However now she is asking me for things that would require trust. I just say no. She goes back to the A and I say no we discussed how your dishonesty would cause me not to trust you. I WILL NEVER TRUST YOU BLINDLY. I will not just say no to everything either. You are entitled to the trust you earn. Nothing more nothing less. Do not ask for more. It is hindering her now she doesn't like it but I am not going to trust someone that has proven to be untrustworthy.

Someone wrote this to me. We have trust issues. I cannot trust what you are saying is true and you cannot trust me with the truth.

Even Harley says the BS is entitled to a D after an A. What if there is something in there that you might not be able to forgive? You work hard get to recovery and find out about this thing.

I am kinda in that spot now. I am not 100% sure but one of the details may have caused me to D my FWW. If I would have known about it then we probably wouldn't be together. I know people will say then maybe it is good that she didn't tell you. No it wasn't I wonder now if I should still get a D because of it.

The other thing and sorry this post is getting long. The amount of remorse and regret the FWS shows and how they repent might be adequate or better then you could expect with the facts you have. Again what happens if you find out more then look back and think they weren't regretful or remorseful considering what you know now.

I don't know if someone has pointed you to Joseph's letter but I would find it and give it to him.

Hurtingless,
H's A was 1 1/2 yrs ago. I think I can say we have been in a false recovery. H had told me previously that his Love Bank was empty and he was done. This past Sat in a long talk before he left for 10 days he said that again about the L Bank but he put it in the past tense. Do you think Joseph's letter will help at all? So much stuff we have swept under the rug, I feel like crying tonight, maybe I will later.

I feel as if I am floundering around right now. Can't settle onto any one thing to work on.

Brownhair, I have an appt with S. Harley tomorrow night and maybe he can give me a direction, any direction right now will be good. I am so wishing that I hadn't told H that I wanted to wait until his return to discuss the ENs. It was what I wanted at the time. The time to process what he felt/needs was good for me. I am not feling reactionary now, but I want to act but no H here.
*hugs* to all

My FWW's A was over 3 years ago. I too was in false recovery. I don't know your entire sitch. See I have 2 kids that make it hard to walk away even if there is just an ounce of hope. I also have a mother who has been helpful and said that at anypoint you make the decesion for a D you really need to be 100% sure. Not just for one day but for a little while.

My FWW took a long time to disclose most of her A. She still has never sat down and talked to me about it other then to answer questions.

I really believe Joseph's letter helped. It helped in two ways. I could never express as well how I felt as that letter did. It also helped I didn't write it because it helped her understand that my feelings are normal in the situation. Third it let me feel as though she now completely understood the ramifications on me and my feelings. If she chose to ignore that then at least I know I coulnd't have made it any clearer and make my decesions from there.

Regarding his Love Bank I can tell you my FWW said the same thing without using the love bank terminology. She disagrees with the love bank or any thing that would denote you need to put in what you take out.

Finally one day I said fine I can understand what you are saying. However if that is what it takes for you to feel that way then I should have been there a long time ago.

I can tell you for us our turning point was when I finally gave up. I had said it quite often but never really followed through.

One day we had another blow up and she came to apologize the next day. All that night I felt like a D was really a good option.

Then she asked me what I was thinking. I said I am thinking of a D or MC. She said well then find an MC and I will go. I said I don't know if I want an MC. She was shocked I think. For the next few days I was kinda quite. I was really thinking about throwing in the towel. She kept asking me if I decided. I was honest and said I don't know at this point if I want to rehash this stuff again. This should have been over long ago. We haven't even addressed any of the real issues we had because of the dishonesty.

Well from that day forward I have seen more commitment then I have in 6 years. Her attitude has changed. She finally realizes that a D doesn't scare me in the least bit. She used to use it as a battering ram to stop any A talks. Now the door is wide open so if she tries to use it then it doesn't damage the door.

What is Joseph's letter and where can I get it?

This is what I told my H this past Sat, I told him that no matter what decesion he makes I am okay and will be okay. I have made my choice, I know where my head and my heart are and that I love him.

That is seriously where I am at. Of course I would much rather that we stay married and build a wonderful marriage. I will not be able to do that by myself though.

I have Joseph's letter and will talk to Steve about it tonight.
Thanks to all and keep fighting the good fight