RX,

Thank you for your very honest post about your thoughts, feelings and beliefs.

First, you not choosing a plan...even creating your own guidelines, is your choice...not limited by your resources, only your faith that what you do matters...you're used to seeing life a certain way, through your filter, and from your beliefs. You are now being shown that maybe some of those beliefs have been detrimental to your life...

I've been there. Losing what felt like everything so that I could finally get what I had not understood my whole life...and my belief is that it was worth it. Had to change a lot of beliefs to get here...I'm grateful for the journey.

Wanna look at your innards, your most hidden and sacred places? God created us with personal filters...made up of experiences and personal choice...and seeing our filters and their ingredients, tracing them back to what we didn't even know was in us, sure helps in how the world looks to us everyday.

The short cut was the "fake til you make it"...and it's true and reasonable, only, to my way of thinking, has the pitfall of what shortcuts usually have...not knowing why it works, therefore, not trusting it TO work...

What do you think? Do you have the human condundrum of whether faith comes before evidence or evidence builds faith? Chicken or the egg? You choose what you believe, have faith in and what you don't. No evidence required, in all actuality.

Do you see where your last paragraph greatly reflects the child inside of you...the one who longs and feels they have no power, no influence, that they don't matter unless others say they do? Would that be what you can see, or just my impression?

LA

LA.. thank you very much for your words. They are words I need to hear right now, words that make me think. I appreciate it.

I tend to be a creature less of faith and more of concrete evidence myself. I have trouble believing in anything that does not have verifiable evidence supporting it... especially when those things are intangible. This is not to say that I am an atheist, but I am far from what most would consider religious. I consider myself more agnostic.

Maybe this is a drawback, but at the same time this may also hold its fair share of benefits.

I want to choose a plan, set guidelines, but for some reason, it's not working out for me. My friends don't support my decision to completely cut all ties, in that they think I should deal with her if and when she calls or comes by. They don't want me to initiate any contact with her, sure, but they say that avoiding her and having others talk to her in my place is childish.

As for the child inside of me, right now he does feel very powerless. I have had that problem all of my life. I have always looked for outside acceptance of my actions. I don't know exactly where this came from, but it is there, and it is very hard to fight.

I'm starting to realize something:

I'm still lonely, very lonely sometimes. I was with WW for so long that I was used to not being alone. It is still very hard for me to deal with the fact that I'm alone.

However...

I'm not pining for her anymore.

I am alone, and I know it. It's getting easier to deal with. But when I do feel alone now, I don't find myself wishing she would come back to me. Now, I just cuddle up with one of my cats or sit and watch some TV... I find things to do to occupy my time, and I don't think about her so much anymore. Thoughts of her only come when I start to run out of things to do and am alone (like at night). Yet, I still don't find myself wishing and praying for her to come back. I don't find myself crying because she's gone.

Do I wish none of this had ever happened? Yes. Do I wish she had never had the ONS's and the affair, and that the family would never have fallen apart? Yes. Does that mean that I want her to come back? No.

I want my wife back. She is not my wife, and may never be that woman ever again.

I am okay. I will be fine. I am moving on.

Good Morning, I hope that you are better this morning.

It's great that you are becoming aware of your sitch...it appears that you are coming to terms with your new reality...that sounds like it's a bid adjustment for you and it appears that you are handling it well.

I can relate to the night thing...My FWH just started working nights last night and this is a huge reality adjustment for me...I don't know much about the A, but some of that time was while he was working nights...

After I would go to work, FWH would go to OW's...talk about a trigger...

It's really good to hear that you are dealing with the sitch better than you were...granted FWH and I are still together, but that gives me hope...

It sounds like you have a plan for your future...you sound VERY strong and self assured...I look forward to talking to you more...HAve a great Day!

Refresh me, RX, on if you have custody (per se) of your son or if WW does? This matters in the whole Plan B thingie or not Plan B thingie.

Evidential Man...know him well. I was him, too. Deceptive security...because most of what we experience in life IS intangible...

If a person's actions define who they are, they we're all defective and great, aren't we? If you have the ability to discern their intent from their action...then DJs wouldn't be deceptive, would they?

If your emotions are evidence instead of information, then you'll act from them, won't you?

Take away your measuring device and who are you? What is your reality? What if there is no evidence?

What if there is your truth, my truth, WW's truth...and the only The Truth is in the actions taken...as is...how safe do you feel with that belief?

Could you have faith in yourself without evidence? Without a measuring device?

LA

Rinderella: Good luck. I hope things go well for you and that you manage to recover, both individually and as a family unit.

LA: I have custody of my son. My WW doesn't have time for that sort of responsibility, nor would I really want her to keep him anyway. She lives in a duplex with anywhere from 2-4 others, all guys, none of whom I would consider appropriate role-models for a growing boy. Plus, with her having a new 'boyfriend,' I don't want him exposed to her and him. I want him to know that I am his father and that other man is just that... some other man. I want him to understand also that what mommy is doing is wrong. Granted, I won't be able to help him understand that for some time to come, but one day he will. From what I've read, some children even come to understand things on their own.

On your other questions:

Ultimately, I believe that reality is perception. That perception is reality. Everyone does have their own truth, in a way. Just because I look at the color orange and you look at the color orange does not mean that we both see the exact same thing. I think that there are two major breakdowns of 'truth:' Personal truths and Collective truths. The former is what any given individual believes about their world--their religious or spiritual beliefs, their morals and ethics. The latter can be broken down into many different regions and such, but ultimately we have many common truths--up is up, down is down, water is water, we must eat to survive, etc.

I feel okay with that.

I need some time, though, to mull over the rest of your comments. My brain feels broken right now, so I'm not sure I can be coherant enough.

Sorry, this just hopped in my head while I was in the shower:

I still can't get over the idea that she's out there having a good time and being happy. That just strikes me as wrong. It is one thing that prevents me from being religious too... seeing the good people hurt while those who hurt them profit and are happy.

If God was such an ultimate good, he would not allow this sort of thing to happen. If God created us, we are his responsibility. By being inactive and allowing these things to happen, he is as guilty as those perpetrating the acts.

At the very least, God is far from being the greatest good.

I think I might have to ultimately move out of this town, maybe out of this state, in order to be able to move on completely. It just feels like my space, my hometown, this place where I am supposed to be comfortable...

It feels violated. So many memories here, all violated by what she did. So much of the town was sacred in my happy memories; now those memories bring pain. I live in such a small city that SOMETHING strikes me, everywhere I look almost. I can't handle that.

I feel so weak sometimes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And that makes me feel so worthless.

*sighs* I guess I just said something wrong. I feel like I'm talking to no one here, sometimes. Other threads get loads of sympathy and empathy... it just seems like my situation is so screwed up that I don't deserve any.

I didn't know what response you desired. I didn't see questions...and I enjoyed hearing your concerns, thoughts and feelings.

Is that what you want? Empathy? Sympathy? I don't think there's anything wrong in asking for it.

I empathize in your frustrations and fears...I remember them. I was awful at being alone...and I was alone a lot while my pre-A was right there...I discounted his presence and heard loudly only the silence. Once he wasn't there at all, when he'd left during his A, then I really understood how much that presence had an impact, a statement.

During that time, I learned how much I didn't count my own presence...did not do for me because I was too focused on others...I knew how to indulge myself with food, books, movies, distractions...not truly self-care.

I do really well alone now. It was necessary to my journey...I fought being alone all my life...and it was a struggle. Learning that balance, how much I missed others--half was me missing attention on me...acknowledging my thoughts, emotions and beliefs, to myself. Funnily enough, the more I did that, the less I NEEDED others to hear me...speaking gave me more back than before. I grew less desperate to be heard.

We believe much the same about separate truths, collective truths...and that surprises me because you say you're an evidence guy (hence, my chic "Evidential Man" name, which I didn't hear the big kudos for)...how do you make thoughts, feelings and beliefs into tangibles? Into evidence?

I had a thought about your WW's previous visit last week...you two had a dance...sometimes we are missing the dance, the reactive rhythm, not the person. She may have been missing you...or she may have been and wanted to remind herself that you've moved on...I dunno...conjecture...but when she said, "I miss my friend" she wanted to dance...do the old stuff...and you didn't, or did you?

Plan A and Plan B change our dances...our cycles...because we change ourselves. Only thing that has an opportunity to get through the fog...no guarantees.

"I look forward to having my best friend back in my marriage when she ends her affairs and goes no contact." Standard, practiced replies really help out. Change the dance. Draw the boundary lines, and keep you from betraying yourself.

Worked for me.

As to you DJing her being out there and happy...why would you think so? Why choose to stab yourself? I found it immensely freeing to know what I didn't know and stay there...stop myself from seeing my WH that way...because I had no idea what he was thinking or feeling about what he was doing. That was really difficult. That was really tough for me because I had a deep, old habit of self-soothing with my imagination (DJs), and at first, correcting myself that I didn't know seemed a loss...and quickly became a strength.

I live in a huge city, so I didn't feel like you do about your town...sounds reasonable to feel that loss, as well...if I could understand what is causing you to see it as a loss...or having to move out to move on?

LA

Hi there.

Seems like you haven't been getting many responses. I've followed your thread though and I felt compelled to post something to you in hopes to lift your spirits at least a little tiny bit.

My H and I are in recovery, but only after so much pain and heartache which nearly ended in a divorce.

But what I wanted to share with you are somethings from my H point of view so that it may give you some insight as to what your WW may be thinking.

Yous stated in one of your posts about her going out and having fun while you're hurting and dying inside. This one stood out to me the most because I remember thinking the same thing! I hated him for it actually...how dare he crumble my walls and then go out and be care-free like I meant nothing?! Like the 7yrs we had were just a 'fling'? I was shocked and majorly offended by how free-spirited he was. It angered me soooo badly I wanted to resort to violence...something I had to fight within myself because the audacity he portrayed made my blood boil.

But I got the answers I needed...and you will, too. Here's the answer I got when I confronted him with it. He said, "It was what I had to do to disconnect myself from you and to keep my sanity. I had to do absolutely anything I could to make myself believe that I was making the right choice in ending this marriage. If I couldn't believe I was doing the right thing, then how could I go through with it? I was determined to go through with it because I didn't think I was in love with you anymore. I thought we had nothing left, I felt that my mistake (one-night stand), would follow us around forever...I thought there was something MORE for me. But I was so wrong...I couldn't be more wrong."

She's not really having fun...on the exterior, sure she's having a great time. But a WS HAS to keep themselves occupied because they don't want to feel guilty or shameful. They want to feel like what they did was the best thing for them...this defense fades over time...they cannot run forever. I have learned a lot from my H. I FULLY understand everything now, and it's amazing, but I needed to ask the grueling, gory questions...the ones we don't really want the answers for. I asked EVERYTHING...detail for detail. And because I did, now I know what he was going through and why he was acting the way he was.

Another thing you mentioned: living in the same place. Boy can I relate. I remember when he told me, I was the one that left the house. Not because I felt like he needed the place...H3ll, if he slept outside with the dogs I didn't care at that time. I left because I couldn't handle looking at the walls and triggering every single memory ever made. I couldn't sleep in the bed. I couldn't watch TV. I never listened to the radio. I stopped playing my instruments and stopped singing because that's what we loved to do together. I stopped eating. I simply couldn't function. Your feelings on this are very very normal!

I had to leave. I stayed at my girlfriends house for a few months...and I left it ALL behind. The only thing I took from that house were my two dogs. They were the only thing that brought joy to my life. You have your son...what a blessing indeed! You don't need the materials in the home you're in...only the necessities to make sure that you and your son can live in the best harmony you can right now. I didn't NEED anything in that house...to many reminders. So, I left it...and I left it all.

Right now, you do what you need to do. I know some advice from others would be to stand your ground and don't be forced into leaving...BUT, you have to do what makes you feel better. For me it was leaving and starting over. I got a new car, a new house...I was doing great. For you...it could be that you stay and overcome and do better with or without her. I know for me, he got word about how great I was doing and that I was over him. He said that when his brother told him how good I was doing that all he could feel was a sinking feeling that he had screwed up so badly and there was never hope of getting me back...this was 9mos into our separation and he was feeling this way!!

Do what you need to do to have a happy home and a healthy son. Let him know that no matter what, YOU are always there for him and would never walk out on him. You can tell him things in age-appropriate ways. I understand he's young, but he will understand you and SEE that you are his rock in his life and you are NEVER going to let anyone tell him different. Be that centered being...he needs you right now.

So, I leave you with this...you said nothing wrong. I know that your thread has gone unposted, but NOT unnoticed. I wanted to post to your 'having fun' thread, but time didn't allow it yesterday. So, I made it a point to give you some of that insight. I hope it works for you. Keep yourself busy...that's the only thing that got me through. You have a son that will occupy most of your mind...your hardest times will be just before you fall asleep, or when you're in the shower and all alone with too much time to think. Regardless, you keep yourself busy because this storm will pass over.

Good luck...I'll keep looking at this thread. I was compelled...keep your head up. I'm living proof that things DO change...and the changes are simply amazing. You will see...

Take care,
Korlis

*sighs* I guess I just said something wrong. I feel like I'm talking to no one here, sometimes. Other threads get loads of sympathy and empathy... it just seems like my situation is so screwed up that I don't deserve any.

Hey Man, I hear you.

It's just the cycle of things on the boards.

If God was such an ultimate good, he would not allow this sort of thing to happen. If God created us, we are his responsibility. By being inactive and allowing these things to happen, he is as guilty as those perpetrating the acts.

At the very least, God is far from being the greatest good.

God could fix every hurt, right every wrong, heal every illness. What would we get out of an easy life, with no problems. Would we learn?

It's like weight lifting. If you don't lift, you don't get strong. Read the remarks from others who have been where you are. You can make it too, if you have hope, and do what is needed. Your Marriage might not make it, but you can make it.

I saw this on a sign once:
Happy are those who dream dreams, and are willing to pay the price to make them come true.

I think it's time for you to start dreaming again. Make a good life for you, and for your son. With her, or without her.

What would that look like to you?

SS

As a Christian, I believe that despite the pain of this world being caused by sin, I am still thankful to God. He never claimed we wouldn't suffer, but He also promises us something better away from the heartache here when we have faith in Jesus.

I know it sounds like a bunch of religico garbage but it's true. There's a book called "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel that covers exactly the sort of thing you're talking about here. It's very good. IMHO.

Hello Rogue,

Just wanted to say I'm going through similar feelings. I tear up when reading your post because I feel the same way about my beautiful young wife who has betrayed me. It does seem unfair that she is off having a good time while I sit here alone in a tiny apartment suffering. Since exposing the affair she has got herself a nice well-paying job and she's taking classes as well. However I am feeling no motivation to do anything. She was always my motivation for all I did so I am really slacking at work now and in danger of losing my job. It does seem unfair that we truly did nothing to deserve this from our wifes and yet we are the ones suffering. I think they will suffer eventually though. They will realize what they have done and try to come back I think. However I dont think I can take her back now. I feel like it took me so much energy to forgive her when I first found out, and then she went and threw that all away by going back to the other person. How many times can I forgive someone??

Anyway, as far as God allowing us to suffer, I am currently reading through the Book of Job in the Bible and its helping me come to grips with all the suffering. If you think you've had a tough time go read about Job.

Good luck my friend, perhaps time will heal our broken hearts.


M- 08/02/03
BS (me)- 25
WW - 23
A - 1 year and counting

I.. I came here hurting again. I came here feeling down and upset because I had thoughts of her again. But.. I.. I feel so much different after reading all these responses. I feel as if my eyes have been opened.

LA - Thank you again for your words. I am trying to learn how to be me and to take comfort in my own company. That is such an alien concept to me that it feels almost unnatural and unreachable, but I know it can and should be done. I know I can be okay alone.. I just have to let myself be.

You're right, we have had that dance. It's been there for a long time. But I didn't dance with her when she came by. She hugged me and said "I miss my friend," and instead of becomming all mushy and gushy and holding her tight like I'm sure she expected, I gave her a friendly hug in return and simply said "I miss you too, but this is how it has to be."

And.. I apologize. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You do get Kudos for the Evidence Man comment. Heh. As for how I make intangibles into evidence.. that's hard to say. I suppose that, no matter what, even Evidence Man has at least a little faith. Most of my thoughts, feelings, and beliefs are given a sort of pseudo-tangibility when they are shared in some way, though primarily my thoughts and beliefs are scientific in nature and thus have scientific principle and the scientific method to back them up. Feelings, though, that's where it gets hard to rationalize. Yeah, one could simply point out that they are a biological function related directly to hormones in the body, but why do they affect our <i>conciousness</i> the way they do? And while on that subject, what <i>is</i> conciousness, anyway? Those are tough questions that, I guess, everyone has to simply have some faith in, because even hard science can't find the answers yet.

If you don't mind, LA.. I think I am going to steal your quote ("I look forward to having my best friend back in my marriage when she ends her affairs and goes no contact.") the next time my wife happens to say the "I miss my friend" comment. One thing I want to know though... what does DJ mean? I'm confused on that one.

Korlis - Your words are what opened my eyes. I understand now. Do you think it's possible that she's acting that way (keeping herself busy so as to not feel guilty) without even realizing it? Doing it completely unconciously, sort of as a defense mechanism?

Everywhere I look here (this might answer your question LA), in this home and in this city, there are things that remind me of her. She and I did A LOT around here when we were together and happy. This house, in and of itself... 90% of the 'stuff' here was marital property... stuff we got together, that we both picked out. 90% of the BEDROOM furniture, however, was stuff SHE brought with her (hence why I have no bed, only 1 nightstand out of 2, and only 1 tall dresser - she took the bed, 1 nightstand, and her mirror-topped dresser-drawers... I should have had her take it all). She still has dresses here, clothes here. There are pictures of her, and though I've been doing my best to put those away, I still find things ever so often. Even silly things, like hearing the soundtrack from a favorite movie of ours, can get to me.

The main problem is that many of the places I could go for fun are places where she and I used to go for fun. This town is just big enough to have a lot of them, but just small enough to where you can likely visit all of them in just a couple years of going out even just a couple times a week.

Okay, I am going to stop typing right here though. I had more to say but I feel like my brain is talking in a maze right now. I feel like I'm just stringing along words and they aren't making much sense. Know that I have more to say to you all and will get to it... just probably tomorrow.

Thank you. I apologize for seeming needy. I'm very bad at asking for help, even when I'm feeling very weak. I appreciate all your words.. they have helped me very much this evening.

I'm so very glad that my words had some sort of insight for you. To answer your question: It's difficult to say whether or not her keeping herself busy is conscious or not. I would say it's a mixture of both.

Remember, just like you have those moments when you're all alone with too much time to think...she does, too. She has to lay down at night and she thinks just before she falls asleep...she has those times in the shower when she's by herself with nothing but the running water to sort of play as background noise to her thoughts.

She will probably won't admit it until she clears that foggy head of hers, realizes her mistakes, OWNS up to it, and does what it takes to win you back and make it right. ONLY THEN will she be open enough to tell you the answers you need. I can only say this because my H has been so transparent a light beam could go right through him.

I'm still so fascinated at how I misinterpreted things. When he told me, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you anymore." I believed him...but, he was trying to break away. Then over time, and months of me begging him to come back, he said, "You know, I just don't even love you anymore." At that point, I stopped, breathed, and said, "Just what exactly am I fighting for?" And then I let him go...I moved on...and lo and behold...we're back together...

Now I ask him, "Why did you say those things?" His reply, "At first, I said I loved you but wasn't in love with you to disconnect. I thought we didn't have a future and I didn't know how else to do it." And to the second question he said, "I remember telling you I didn't love you at all. That was a horrible lie. But I did say that because you wouldn't stop begging and pleading and promising a better future...I had to say something bold enough to get you to stop because you were wearing me down and my pride wouldn't let me come back to you. Pride is the most horrible thing for a man to harbor."

We actually had this talk yesterday...along with many other things. We talked about many many things that happened during that time, and I'm so shocked at how I read them so wrong.

You sound as if you're coming along a little better. It's rough, I know. I still have my days, BUT...just know that she's 'out of her mind' and THINKS she's doing the right thing. Stay busy...read...and post. This will help you LOADS.

Lots of luck...thinkin bout ya.
Kor

Yeah, just out of the blue. I was napping, my roommate knocked on the door and told me she was here. I asked him to ask her to leave. She hung around for 5-10 minutes talking to him, then did so. Apparently, she wanted to come by to pick up some dresses of hers. But, she also was bored because no one was at her house and she wanted to 'hang out' for a bit.

Neither of my roommates like her. One is very vocal about it, though the other is very diplomatic about it.

Anyway, I am sorta curious why she just wanted to hang out. It makes me think she might be hovering on the brink, maybe she is starting to come out of the fog. But, like last time, I'm not going to allow myself to overanalyze.

Anyway, more later. I have to get some sleep.

Hey RogueX,
Reading your sit., I don’t know if you are in plan A or in some sort of a modified plan B. Anyway, I don’t see your situation as desperate. She is a WW. Doing a good plan A could work even separated. Do you really understand what it is? She seems interested in you. If you do the plan A you could get her to want to change. People do change. They mature, they learn, they evolve.

My WW and I have been separated from the start and plan A is possible. With a child and her coming around to hang out why not use it to do a real try at saving your M. After that if it is better switch to a good and a real plan B. Anyway, you do not want to get into plan B with an empty love bank.

You do have a choice also, you can D and give up and that is OK. She is betraying you. But if you want to save you relationship to your W and to the mother of your child at least do a good plan A and then a correct plan B. This is my opinion but also in keeping with the approach offered at MB. Did you get advice and talk to Steve or Jennifer or call in on Dr Bill’s radio show? The Harleys have experience and success. They have a plan that seems to work often. Success is unpredictable but if you don’t try really using their method do you have a better way?

Maybe I am just being jealous of you. I’d do anything to have my WW drop bye to hangout. It is an occasion to deposit LoveUnits by talking to her, intimate conversation (IC) and give her affection.

I didn’t read all your posts so I may be completely off but then I don’t think so.

Take care; this is extremely hard on you.

A fellow BS, a man and in plan A and separated,

DLK21

My situation is strange... some monster hybrid of a plan. I suppose I could do a Plan A, but I have to be really careful with the things I say and do. Right now, at least, WW seems to use my affection and loving words against me. Also, at this very point at least, I don't even know if I <i>want</i> to save my M with her anymore.

I had a conversation with her on the phone today. She called because she still wants to pick up her dresses. I'm beginning to wonder if that's all she really wanted yesterday, and the 'hanging out' bit was just added on. Like I said, though, analyzing it will just produce negativity, so I should leave it alone. Anyway, she and I agreed that she could come by on Monday to get them. We'll see how that goes.

What should I do? Plan A? Show her affection, show her that I do still care and do still want the M? Or should I just forget about it? I don't want to hear from her the "you still act like my husband" routine from her. Granted, I <i>am</i> still her husband, but she just wants her "friend."

RX,

DJ is Disrespectful Judgment...in the Love Busters, this is a biggie. It is when we assume or mindread...which, in your scientific method, is taking your hypothetical guess and weighting it into fact. Very dangerous and full of fantasy.

Tell me, would you be comfortable in knowing what you do not know? Could you leave what you really don't know where it is...in the unknown right now?

"Feelings, though, that's where it gets hard to rationalize. Yeah, one could simply point out that they are a biological function related directly to hormones in the body, but why do they affect our <i>conciousness</i> the way they do?"

Soul speak.

Oh, yeah, that's clarifying.

I believe our emotions are information given to us from our beliefs...carried by hormones, increased or decreased by them...the intensity changed by them...their mode of delivery...why rationalize information? It's information...data...nothing rationalize, necessary to kow, recognize, identify and accept, though, IMO. What do you think?

"And while on that subject, what <i>is</i> conciousness, anyway? Those are tough questions that, I guess, everyone has to simply have some faith in, because even hard science can't find the answers yet."

I believe consciousness is soul...that enmeshed body, mind and spirit combination of experiencing life and our own life force. In order to experience living, we must perceive...five senses, mind's interpretation of those, and most importantly, what we believe from the input...that two-way street is active...because we perceive, we have only our own perspective...trapped in subjectivity...our own experience, which is seriously scary for being erect mammals with cars...in a pact, eternally separate from it, eh? So this reality is difficult to balance with our fear, so we perceive automatically that what we experience is everyone's experience...do so through comparison (which you know as a tool for objectivity, maybe, and I believe is a fantasy evidence aid, very destructive to commonality and consciousness itself).

Humans have few baselines, guidelines...you said you believed this was true because of our separate realities, living them at the same time with others' realities...which prompts me to again ask, why do you take hers as yours?

Your posts juice my brain. LOL

As for taking my words, that phrase to say...I see that as you taking the gift I gave...from my experience...because that's why I'm here...to give back. They are your words, from your own truth...not mine. When you speak them, they are yours.

Good to know they are your truth, as well.

So you still view Plan A as having to be careful and conscious of everything you do...does that mean you perceive it as a falseness? An act?

I believe choosing one or the other plans to follow is better than a hybird, given to permission to be guided by your feelings, daily, subject to twisting and bending those plans and further betraying yourself.

IMO.

You cannot control her "you still act like my husband" statements...you can answer, "I am your husband. That's why you might perceive me to be acting like one."

If your goal is for clarity, to live in truth, then I'm all for Plan A. If your goal is to protect yourself from not being able to control her...then Plan B.

"I am no longer your friend, though I remain your husband, WW. I choose not to be friends with anyone who is not a friend of my marriage."

What are your beliefs? What is your desire? What are your needs and reality? Why does analyzing (which I choose to perceive as discovering) just produce negativity? From whom? Within whom? And is negativity bad? Something to be run from (leave alone) or explored?

LA