I think you need to be in a solid plan -- one or the other. Either a good plan A, or a good plan B. Just kind of floating in-between is going to cause you much more angst and confusion.

Did you do a good Plan A?

Have you done a Plan B letter?

What is your current plan????

I didn't really get a chance for a good Plan A. I didn't know about Plan A/B until after she moved out. As for Plan B, I've written a letter but haven't sent it.

Mainly, my problem is this: I don't even know if I want to try to save the marriage or not. Right now, I'm just really confused as to what direction I want to go from here. I'm afraid that if I did try to save the marriage, we would get back together and I'd just end up getting hurt again in a couple years or so. And, my friends and family would shun me.. they've all told me to just get over it and forget about her. Even her family has told me that.

But I do still love her. Despite it all. And deep down, I wouldn't complain if we could make a happy marriage come out of this tragedy. But I'm not sure if I want to go through all the hurt that it will possibly take before I can get her to come out of her fog.

She's starting to do it herself, I think. But she's with her new boyfriend now, and I'd have to put up a huge effort in order to get her to come back to the marriage.

I'm not sure I have that sort of energy, nor am I even sure I want to expend it on her.

Do you see my dilemma?

Mainly, my problem is this: I don't even know if I want to try to save the marriage or not.


Ok, then your first step is to make this decision. Based on your code, not what your friends and family think.

SH told my WH and I both that we needed to gather information. Find out exactly what it would take to recover, get a plan, maps, directions, etc. all figured out before we decide if we want to try or not.

So ... can you do some information gathering? Determine what it would take, and what the benefit would be (a truly recovered marriage, not one where you have to worry about this happening again), and what the drawbacks would be?

Once you have that information, you'll be better able to make a decision. Once you have a decision, then you can make a plan to get to where you want to be. Until then, you're going to be in this crazy limbo phase where you don't know what to do from one sitch to the next, and all you're doing is reacting -- not acting. And that's not going to get you anywhere but more confused and depressed.


Have you thought about talking to SH? Have you read the books (SAA and HN/HN)? Where else can you get some basic information to help you decide what you want to do?


Don't give up. There's always a chance to recover -- the question is if you want to do it or not.

-AmI.

Well, even if I did want to recover, she clearly doesn't. That, right there, is incredibly discouraging. I guess I can take some time to 'gather information' though; to try and figure out how feasible it is.

My WH doesn't, either.

I don't think any WS, while they are W, will say that they want to recover. They are way too self-absorbed and hung up on the OP to admit that they want to recover.

So don't listen to her. She isn't rational enough to make that decision. Besides, YOUR decisions are based on YOU -- YOUR code, YOUR morals, YOUR values, what YOU want. It doesn't matter what she thinks or wants. She frankly doens't know. So forget about that. You have to make the decision for yourself. And there are lots of good and bad things on both lists. So you need to find out what all of those things are. That will help you decide.


The day-to-day things, minute-by-minute, roller-coaster feelings .... they are all so much easier to handle when you have a plan.

I really think that you need to concentrate on getting there.

Can you talk to Steve Harley? He's the master at helping with plans and strategy.


-AmI.

I guess I could try to call in on his radio show.. I don't know if it is carried on any of our stations here though. I will have to look into that.

TheRogueX,

You can listen to the show on your computer. Follow the link on the top of this webpage. I’ve called 2-3 times. They us an 800 number.


Or follow these links.

Rebroadcast
http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=stream2

Live broadcast (10 to 1pm central time)
http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=stream

DLK21

So yeah. I've had a few good days in the present. Lived and didn't really think about her or the situation. I dunno. I wasn't depressed, but I wasn't incredibly awesomely happy either. Eh.

That's pretty much all I can say about it. Eh.

Is this part of my recovery?

Today is not a good day. I don't know why, but I'm just not feeling good about anything. A friend told me that they saw my WW downtown dressed up all 'slutty' and 'hooker-ish,' and even though she wasn't with anyone, it still just bothers me. I don't know why I let her behavior bother me on some days but not on others, but it happens. I want it to stop. I don't want it to bother me anymore.

Yet again, here is a day where I just hate this.

I was on her side of town for work, and I constantly thought about going over to see her for a few minutes when I was done with my job. She was only a mile or so away, it wouldn't have taken very long.

But I don't want to see her. Do I? Her 'boyfriend' might have been there. I could have said something stupid. I don't know what kind of guy he is... it could have started a fight.. who knows. But still, this is not living in the present.. it's living in fantasy, a land of what-if and coulda-shoulda-woulda. It's so annoying, but for some reason it seems so hard to keep it from happening.

WHY can I have good days like, oh, the rest of this week, then turn around and have bad days like today???

Personal recovery...learning who you are, why you act and say what you do, how you perceive, what you believe and know how you feel...ayup, you're there.

Why isn't it all good days? You tell me...you self-stabbed...allowed her into your thoughts and your brain handed you pain and frustration...and how about boundaries with friends? Them telling you about her for what purpose? Was it their backwards way of saying, "I just thought of you when I saw your wife?"

Why not tell your friends how much that pains you, kicks off your fantasy bender, with flags and fanfare?

I went to fantasy (which could be daydreaming, worry, anxiety or renactment of discussions) whenever I felt pain...great distraction...keeps those wounds good and neglected...no healing involved, I've found.

"I could have said something stupid."

OUCH...why do you hurt yourself...it's your darn fantasy! Ohmygosh...don't use it to hit yourself in your own face, 'k?

Anyway...look at what you chose and accomplished...what you do is as important as what you don't do...

LA

/MAYBE WE COULD HANG OUT?

Dude, did you tell her you went out the night before? That there was that girl there...? Mentioning the girl probably didn't matter... but, the last thing she actually wants is for you to move forwards. That destroys the cake eating. It also ruins the fantasy land she is in... If you are out having fun, guess what, she knows you will meet someone else, and then her goose is cooked.

To me, I take this as a sure sign, things aren't what they seem. And, you need a plan more than ever...

-hang in there

I feel like I'm a burden to you all.. like I'm not listening, or something. I read what you say and think hard about it, but then when it comes crunch time and I should follow the advice given to me, it always seems like I fail to do so and I fall apart.

I'm sorry. I'm trying. I've never had to do this sort of recovery from anything before. It feels so hopeless and daunting sometimes. It's all I can do to keep myself in the present and remind myself that I will be okay in the end.

I promise I really am trying. It's just so hard.

tonight was good i guess

triggers aplenty when i ended up at the bar where my ww works... she wasn't there but it's still where she works and the bar is located in the very same hotel where her affair started in february. i was uncomfortable so we didn't stay.

went downtown instead, thought she might be at a bar i like, went there anyway. she wasn't there, but some of my good friends were so we stayed.

a girl i've been friends with and very interested in for years was there. i love spending time with her, always have. she always manages to make me smile. but it's bad for me. very very bad for me. i still like her a whole lot, and that is why i must try to stay a healthy emotional distance away from her no matter what.

i don't want to be in these games again. i don't want to be single again. i don't want to have to deal with this. i hated it the first time, i'm going to hate it more now. but i have to do it. there is no recovery for my marriage. none. my ww has made up her mind and i don't have the energy nor the patience to fight for her any longer. i love her. i wish we could just get things right and be together forever, but she's seen to it that it will never happen.

i don't want to live like this. i hate this. i'm so tired of this. i just want to crawl into a corner and sleep away the whole world.

RX,

Can you spend more time with your parents and your son? I ask because it seems your days are full of distraction and a journey to cull pain.

You are a father and a husband and a son. If you don't want to take advice, can you tell us why? We only do that which has a payoff for us...so when we don't choose to do something, even for ourselves, it is because we can't see the payoff, the benefit.

Can you stop with the patterns of life and look at yourself for a moment? Tell us what your deepest desire is...and if it is to feel something, not be something, can you tell the difference?

When we hate the way we live enough, we stop living that way. It takes what it takes...and hate is a signal...not a bad or wrong thing...that says look at what our wishes are, our false and true beliefs...to get to our own core.

I would say sitting in your reality, that you are a father and husband, and away from well-meaning friends for distraction, would aid you in getting both hands into reality, your life, your self and your desire to resist life would fade...could you be resisting fantasy?

LA

People suck.

Women suck.

Men suck.

Relationships suck.

Sex (and/or the lack thereof) sucks.

Marriage sucks.

Politics suck.

Religion (and/or the lack thereof) sucks.

I'm sick of it all.

I think I'm just going to take my son and become a hermit.

People suck. - Most probably do but I try to seek out ones that don't.

Women suck. - They do if you ask nicely and buy them jewelery.

Men suck. - Not going to touch this one but I know there are men that do.

Relationships suck. - Bad ones do but the good ones fill you up.

Sex (and/or the lack thereof) sucks. - The lack thereof I agree with.

Marriage sucks. - I know can't believe people keep doing it. It doesn't if you find the right person. Not the one you thought was right but the one that is right.

Politics suck. - Agreed

Religion (and/or the lack thereof) sucks.- Agreed

I'm sick of it all. - Well good now get a vacination and get back out there. Do something to change some of it.

I think I'm just going to take my son and become a hermit. - I think you can only be a hermit if you are alone.

The one bright spot since my FWW's A is I am a better father. I look at my son's and see what was left in pandora's box. HOPE. I have hope for the future when I look into their eyes. When I lose that hope I am stealing form my son's. They don't deserve that from me.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

BAD FROG!!!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />




Ok, RX ...

The very most basic thing right now .... you need a plan. Having a plan makes all these mood swings and peaks and valleys SOOOOOO much easier to bear. It's a map, a light at the end of the tunnel ... a way to get to where you want to go.

A plan means that you are taking action .... doing the right thing, the next thing .... and not having to react to (or wonder about) what she's doing.

It's incredibly freeing. Comforting. Stabilizing. Just knowing where you want to go, and that you can take steps to get there -- regardless of what anyone else does or thinks.

It makes it easier to know what to do when the pain is at it's worst and you feel paralyzed. Or you're so raging and furious that you can't see straight. And it makes those moments a little easier to bear, a little fewer and further between.

You need a goal and a plan to get there.
Otherwise you are going to wander around in this depressive, reactive, angry, sad, oppressive haze that seems to be drowning you right now.

Please listen to the pros around here, or one of the counselors or a good IC, who can guide you in creating a plan.

See, my problem right now is simple. I don't know what the 'right thing' is! I can't figure it out!

To me, there are two 'right things' here.

1) I should attempt to save the marriage, because I love my wife and I want my son to have his full, original family... the WW is potentially in a fog and could be able recover and be good for me.

2) I should break away from my wife because she is potentially bad for me, get a divorce, and move on with my life, concentrating on being a good father for my son and trying to eventually find someone better for us both.

By the ethics and morals I was tought growing up, BOTH of these are perfectly suitable and perfectly 'RIGHT' answers! Do you see my problem? If I do one, I will feel guilty because I didn't do the other. I am at a point where I can't figure out what to do next, and I have gotten mixed reactions from people here, from friends, and from family.

It's all just a confusing mess.

I understand what you're saying. That both options are morally acceptable to you, so you're confused about which one to choose.

As I read those two options, I don't think they are mutually exclusive. I think you could have a plan where you do number 1, on the way to 2. Or number 2, breaking away from your wife may be just what she needs to kick her into gear for #1 .... there are lots of things that can be considered once you are developing a plan, and lots of people here who can help you.

A plan is like a map. Before you can put together a good plan, you have to decide where you want to go ... what you WANT. What is your goal? In your heart, and without considering things that she's said about the chances of a future, or things that people have told you you should do or shouldn't do or any other well-meaning advice .... just you and your heart and your code ... what do you want to happen?

Once you have a plan and can say "this is where I'm going and what I'm trying to do", then it will be easier to know what the next step is. You won't have so much uncertainty. And people can give you better advice, too. Right now, people can tell you about how pretty the scenic roads are, or how fast the highways are ... but without a direction, that's not really all that helpful, is it?

So ... where do you WANT to go?

Rogue,

The answer is that one of your choices is wholly within your control and one is not.

You can and certainly should try to save your marriage, but you have no control over your wife's decisions regarding reconciliation. You may put forth an extraordinary effort to save your marriage but still fail because your wife will not stop the affair, or if she does, decide that she does not want to return to the marriage.

If you choose to try to save your marriage and put forth your best effort to do so, yet fail, then option 2 is open to you and should be guilt-free.