Yip, me neither... We will chat face to face tonight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Last night she said that it is basically up to me to decide if I can live with the differences, which she sees as small. A part of me wants her to agree that our differences are too great, but of course that won't happen, so I gotta do what I gotta do... I hate to be the bad guy, but then again, better be a bad guy now than later <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

AGG,

I think in my experience my very selfish SOs were the ones that thought they should be accepted "as is".

Sorry.

I'm thinking that she has it great. A great guy who cooks and cleans, and keeps the kids away so that she can sleep, and plans activities for fun, and works full time.

Sorry.

I look at my fiance's ex. I don't think she ever wanted to work. High maintenance. Will shop all day for the perfect something and spends hours on hair etc. Husband's daddy pays all the bills because they don't earn much money. Whines how everyone has changed because they are not opening their houses to her and her children for weeks on end like they used to do before she had children. She thinks a two or three week long visit a couple of times a year is a small thing.

V.

If it were only as simple as she is stating by leaving it up to you.
We all know, it won't be.

You are being more honest than you are the bad guy.

Best to you!

K!

AGG,

I remember getting that message from B. “Accept me and LOVE me as I am.” Actually, I think he wanted to me to love him because of his faults. Well, I just couldn’t. As is, he made too many withdrawals from the ole bank.

On the other hand, when dating, I think the as is policy is great. We have to take people as is for the most part. If their blemishes (part of the beauty of the natural fiber) are not acceptable to us, well, we just don’t buy the product.

G. would be perfect for a single man, no kids, who is either self-employed or independently wealthy, and likes the same kind of life style she does. You’re not saying her way is wrong, you’re just saying her way is wrong for you.

To me, the whole point of dating is to decide if you want to buy the farm, so to speak. Sure, once you make that choice, then you should mostly accept your partner as is. But, if I see incompatibility that I know will make love bank withdrawals later on, then I do not want to accept them as is. That is the whole point of dating - finding someone compatible, and not overlooking the incompatibilities. Most of us have BTDT, and seen how difficult incompatibilities make life over time.

I see G's point that she wants to be accepted as is, with her peculiarities, as a red flag for the future. I can see that whenever an issue would come later on down the line, I'd want to POJA it, but she would have the "accept me as is" answer. Taken to the extreme, it would imply that if I ever express the desire for her to help more around the house, to contribute financially to the household, travel less back East, etc etc, she can respond to any one of those with "that is just not my way". I have seen in the past that we had trouble POJAing, and this is more of the same.

She did keep saying that I am being judgemental and critical for not accepting her the way she accepts me - and like GG said, I told her that it is not a matter of me being right and her being wrong, just that we are very different.

GG, I agree that she largely wants to be accepted as is because somewhere deep down inside she knows how far "away from norm" she is in many ways, and instead of working on getting back to norm, it's easier to say "accept me as is". I dunno.

I feel that we are basically two deaf people talking to each other - she does not understand where I am coming from, and I think I don't fully understand her either. She feels that she has made tons of changes to reduce the differences, and I have not met her halfway. But to me, it just emphasizes how far apart we are - and we both are resenting the differences, even though she does not seem to realize it.

I am not loking forward to this evening <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Unfortunately (altough fortunately for her, I suppose) G doesn't have the, er, benefit of a failed marriage and all the inhent study and growth that you have, behind her, in order to see how dangerous it can be to a relationship to accept a person "as is" as she is describing,......of course we all want to be accepted for who we are. Absolutely! Therefore it would be imperative for G to find someone who has a similar lifestyle and views, so down the road, resentment doesn't build, which, as we all know, is a real killer to a romantic relationship.

These differences MAY be minor, as G has stated, but you know yourself well enough AGG not to rationalize away things that will contribute to problems later down the road. I applaud you for that....

It's not easy parting w/ someone w/ so many other positives, who you genuinely care for...

HUGS!

"Accept me as is" to me means - I love who I am, my life doing things I want, I don't want to change anything for I'm happy like this, and, as I told you, now I'm not responsible but you are...

Our differences/incompabilities are at least three times bigger in M vs. when dating.
Even with people they said (and meant it) they'd do their best to change some things...

DW:


B2M:


Great minds think alike, and I agree with you both. I know full well that marriage amplifies both the good and the bad over time - and our differences will drive me crazy - they already do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

I'm sorry to hear the final decision. . .

but that's ok, if you don't make the decision, you will live in limbo or the decision will be taken away from you. .

wiftty

All done, except for returning some of her items back to her place.

As I always said, it may take me a while to make a decision, but once I do, there is no waffling.

Add one more entry to the alarmingly long list of hearts broken by AGG. Crap <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Anyway, I got through it, I am at peace, but I am also numb.

Thanks for all your support, my friends - I'll be back to my chipper self by the morning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

AGG,

I am so sorry, and please don't be hard on yourself about breaking her heart. Of course you know, but just keep reminding yourself, better now than later for the both of you.

Take care,

Anna

Do you feel a weight has been lifted AGG?

I am sorry this R didn't work out for the two of you & that you're back to the search.

I know it was tough, AGG. It’s hard to hurt another person’s feelings. In spite of breaking her heart, I think you should be proud of how you handled this. You did her no harm, even though you hurt her. Just imagine if you hadn’t broken up with her! That would have been doing harm to her in so many ways. What if you put her in the position of “Change for me or else” and she did change. In the non-marriage stage of a relationship, I think this kind of a demand does harm too. Changing in order to keep your boyfriend means giving up a little or a lot of who you are. It weakens one’s sense of self and esteem. That’s harmful. (Entirely different from the Ah-Ha change where one sees the light of day through boyfriend’s example.)

This is the dreaded for sure.

I can only relate due to the one boyfriend I had.
We hit on so many levels, just as AGG and G.
There was still "something" that I couldn't put my finger on.
It's been well over a year since our break up and I still miss the good that we shared.

Break-ups are hard. However, I think you handled it well.
You gave it much thought and consideration, and you didn't find a replacement before ending it which is huge.

Thinking of you!

Well, I guess I feel like a weight has been lifted. But I also feel the weight of having hurt someone very special. Despite all the incompatibilities we had, we also had some very special bonds, and it is sad to hurt someone who was so devoted and so sweet to me. It sucks.

She e-mailed me this morning, and as I suspected, she is in total shock from how things changed overnight from her thinking that all was well to us being "done". I can understand that, I have not been the best at giving her clues of what was on my mind - I was trying to observe without nudging or nagging.

She asked me to explain to her the differences that I see between us that are causing the breakup - I think she still thinks that it's basically the sleep and the clutter, which is far from the whole picture. I don't know how to respond to that - I can't give her all the details, because it would be hurtful and because in truth, she can have an answer or counterpoint to each one - "I will be more active", "I'll learn to cook", "I won't quit work after marriage", etc. I don't want to go there, but I feel she deserves more than "sorry Honey, we are just too different". Any ideas, oh great breakup veterans?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

She asked if I would consider giving us more time to try, I don't want to because I know it won't change anything, it'll just prolong the pain and make her miserable; kind of like we experience when we stand on our heads trying to Plan A someone who has one and a half feet out the door.

BTW, nams, I know you meant it more generally than literally, but the last thing on my mind right now is searching for a replacement <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I am too numb to even think about anyone else, let alone getting back into the abyss of LA dating, with all the wackos, players, lost souls, and golddiggers out there... It's funny, just thinking of seeing all those glamor shots of big bleached-tooth smiles, and the standard phrases of "I love to live life to the fullest" and "I love my pair of Levis and my slinky cocktail dress" make me want to barf. I think I'll focus on my hobbies, friends, and kids for a long long while.

So, no, I am not chipper at all today.

AGG

Well, you could always give her the old "It's not you, it's me" line.

Or you could point out that the fact she sees you as very compatible, where you don't; and that she sees the differences as minor and you see them as problematic are indications of how very far apart you two are.

I agree about not going into details. Maybe tell her one more time that you two are too different, cite that she thinks she's made lots of changes, yet they aren't enough for you. Then, let it go. And don't talk to her again. She's not going to agree since this is not what she wants. She won't understand no matter how you explain it now.

Sorry. AGG. It will be okay.

Before my affair, before I found MB, when I saw the danger signs approaching and went to talk to my W about the things I saw missing in our relationship, she told me, "You knew I was like this when you married me, so that's the way it will always be."

Yes, and exact quote. Instead of pursuing the issue with her, I shut down and pursued the wrong thing with someone else.

After the affair, and after finding MB, we tried some more. I think she actually put forth an effort for a bit, but it was just too easy for her to slip back into her patterns. Those lifelong patterns, coupled with the fact that she never really loved me (another quote from her) didn't give her the incentive to really work on the marriage and our interactions. Once I realized this, once I realized (and she told me) that *I* was the only one really working on our marriage, we were doomed.

And I couldn't be happier.

I'm sorry about things with G, AGG... but like others have said, better now than later, especially when those differences would have sapped your LoveBank for her dry. You will instead have wonderful memories. My subsequent relationship after my marriage was a lot like yours with G... passionate and wonderful. There was a point, however, where the differences got to be too much, and after one of our (epic) fights, I went over to break up. I decided at her urging to give it "another try," which turned into a few more, and my Lovebank was subsequently drained by the differences and demands.

One thing of note... I was telling her about MarriageBuilders and she completely scoffed at all the principles... and I mean *all* of them. She said she "might" read the books after I decided to go back and re-read them to see if it "still had any merit."

That should have been a clue for me right there.


Well, I'm certainly not a veteran (two relationships in the last 25 years... three if you count my affair, which I certainly don't), but why not stick with MB... tell her that there are certain, basic incompatibilities that are draining your love for her, and you can't stand the thought of not loving her?

Chin up, AGG... you *will* find someone wonderful and wonderful for you. How could you not? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Yeah, give things some time (and although I have no urge whatsovever to date, in perusing all the online personals out of curiousity as to what's out there I too have seen those gagworthy lines), but you'll be AGoodGuy for someone!

Until then... those beers we were going to buy each other have been sitting there getting flat for about five years now, haven’t they??? ;-)

If you feel the need to explain further, this is what I would go with. These are vague enough that she could learn from this and apply it to her next relationship, where giving specifics (sleeping late, not being active) would not necessarily be a problem in a relationship with someone else.

I wouldn't keep revisiting the same issues though; I don't think it helps anyone to keep in contact after an ended relationship. Clean cuts are the best.

AGG, if we cannot accept... what else can we do than move on without it...


Just recalling me should nicely soothe you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

AGG,

Fiance and I were talking about your situation last night. The conversation led to a break up last year that I initiated after I finally thought he would not change his ways. At one point he was getting a little defensive about the fact that he thought he was changing and I didn't see changes, well I asked him if he would have come as far as he had if I hadn't broken up with him.

Incentive? I don't know. I was tired of everyone else being more important to his time than I was. I think you are tired of G's sleep schedule and general lack of motivation.

I think if G asks and you need something - tell her you are disappointed by her general lack of motivation. All the other "stuff" is just symptoms, right?

V.