GG:

That's what I basically e-mailed her today in response to her e-mail asking me to reconsider. I'm sure she'll press for details, and I will try very hard to not go there.


Very true. Thanks GG.

Who_Dat:


Yup. I think we MB veterans realize that this is how things work; unfortunately, I think G has the much more idealistic view that love and marriage will conquer all.



That's a nice thought, and I would like to remember our relationship for the good things, rather than for "trying" and arguing and suffering. So I like the way you put it - not that it'll help her any, but I hope that this may allow me and her to be friends some day way down the line.



Hehe, of course, you and me are looking at the same dating pool, so we know what's out there, er, here...


Nah, they are aging, not going flat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AFS:


I agree. I think that nothing good can come out of explaining things, it'll just hurt her more without any benefit.

B2M:


Yeah, all I see when I do that is you standing there with a 2x4 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Sunny:


I think that would be very hurtful to her, and she would either not agree with it or simply say that her motivation is focused elsewhere - build a happy family life, bond, relax together, etc, instead of being motivated to do chores. I just don't want to go down that path, which is why I want to stick to the very top level stuff. Even though in a way I feel that she deserves an explanation, more than just a "we're different line". But she won't hear my explanation anyway, she'll simply try to argue with me, so what is the point?

AGG

I don't know...I'm thinking a well crafted letter outlining what you consider to be deal breakers might put an end to the questions G must have. You also make it clear the letter will be the last of the explainations due to the hurt you both feel.

You don't have to be cruel or mean spiritied just the truth.

For example you could say "Though I see you've made changes over the last few months regarding your sleep habits I know we are still so far apart that it's a difference I can't live with."

Regarding her desire to stop work after marriage: "I understand that in your family your mother stayed home to care for the family & the house & therefore didn't work outside the home. In our case I don't see how that would work. You prefer to sleep in when there are lots of activities the kids are involved in, you're not as concerned about a neat & clean home as I am."

I think if I were in G's position I'd like concrete reasons. You don't need to beat the topics to death. Just provide them & leave it.

It hurts to have just the surface stuff referred to.

So sorry AGG. I know you're hurting too.

Have you considered telling her this was the second chance?
You nearly broke up several months ago, but stayed together on the premise that she was working on things. Which didn't happen.

So this summer already was "more time to try."

AGG, I hope you can decide how to communicate more to her about the differences. I think she deserves to know more than just the sleeping and clutter reasons. Those seem too superficial to cause a break-up. Maybe try to tell her more about how those lifestyle differences cause frustration and resentment -- and you don't want to feel that way towards a partner.

You really are a good guy....

I know and I agree. If the reasons were clearcut dealbreakers (you are dishonest, you are an addict, you are mentally ill) that'd be easy. But none of my reasons, individually, are such dealbreakers.

So here is what I see happening once I start explaining. She'll start responding to each one with a counterargument, which I am sure she will feel genuine about:

"sleep in too late" => "I'll change my schedule" (she already suggested that in today's e-mail)

"too cluttered" => "I will change that" (and she really has cleaned up her place in the last few weeks)

"don't want you to stay home and do nothing" => "I reconsidered, I will not want to quit work"

"don't like you going back East so often" => "I have seen the light and won't go back as often"

"don't like your lack of activity and motivation" => "once I switch my schedule, I'll be more energetic, I promise!"

"don't like your spending habits and dependence on parents" => "you are right, I need to change, I'll start tomorrow!".

See what I mean? I know she deserves answers, but then again, don't I deserve the right to my own point of view? It's not like her arguing with me is going to make me say "oh, hmm, you are right", any more than my reasons will make her do the same...

AGG

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


(Btw, that sentence comes after you said it takes more time for you to make a decision... then I thought of my 4 years 'giving it time'... so, whenever you think you need too much time to make decision, recall people they need more...)

Thanks Lexxxy.. I'm a tough cookie, it is only for her that my heart is breaking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I know I'll be fine.


I told her that in an e-mail. She replied that the last couple of months were very hectic, not "normal", so she had no chance of making the adjustments. So she says that now that things are back to "normal", now would be the opportunity to try again. But there was nothing abnormal about the past few months, it was just "life" - vacations, some business travel, etc, but overall, it was life as life is and as we make it. For instance, she is heading back east again tonight for a few days, only five weeks after being there for two weeks. So, nothing has changed. But I don't want to keep nagging at that - it's not like if she stopped going back there that I'd feel good about it, nor will she. She'll just resent me. Anyway, my point is that I know what life with her would be like, I don't see the point of trying more.


I know.. I agree. I just don't know how to do it without it being what I posted to nams...


Awww, thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Hm... I agree but... these particular reasons... she should know by herself, if she plans having the Family... i.e. can you really open someone's eyes if they do not want to see...?

I mean, I'd understand her wish (for example) not to work when married (with no kids and not taking all care of the home) if she were 20-25...
Is it, in 40s, real to look for?
Or it's just me not understanding/knowing men from that part of the world over there...

I understand, and I truly appreciate you sharing your story. My "2x4" comment was not meant to be negative, very often a 2x4 is what is needed!

Thanks B2M!

AGG

Let's hope you will get the same chance <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm always fine with getting what I (really) deserve(d) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

See what I mean? I know she deserves answers, but then again, don't I deserve the right to my own point of view? It's not like her arguing with me is going to make me say "oh, hmm, you are right", any more than my reasons will make her do the same...

Yes...you do deserve that right. So, I would suggest that you tell her that you have a different "value" system.

You differ on how you value time and money for starters. You value money as something that is earned and used as a way to support yourself and enjoy life. Her value in money is that it is green wads of paper that her Mom leaves on the table so that she can play. You value time because you know that there are just so many hours in a day to get everything you need and want done...with only so many left in which to enjoy life.

She is living off of someone else's dime...and someone else's time (yours when you are together).

You can "accept" that she is that way, it doesn't mean that you have to include her in your future.

When people want explanations, they will attempt to change that person's mind. What if you just don't want to see her anymore because you don't want to? Aren't you entitled to that reason? I happen to think that you are.

jmho
committed

Funny timing... Just before I logged into MB, I sat here thinking the very same thing - why do I have to keep explaining and arguing? Why do I have to convince her that my views are valid? It's not like we are married, having promised each other to stay together for better or for worse...We dated, I got to know her, I don't want to marry her... I know it's sad for her, it's sad for me too... But at some point, the arguing and discussing should give way to grieving.

I know the aswer to my questions, of course - "she deserves to know"... But I don't think she'll understand my reasons, so she won't really "know" them, and we will only argue over it and cause more heartaches.

I hope that her being out of town these next few days will help things settle a bit, and that she will stop pushing for explanations and reasons. She did write to me today that she does not hold a grudge, and while disappointed, is not angry. I know that this is probably more bravado than reality at this point, but hopefully in time she will fully accept this ending...

AGG

AGG,

My best girlfriend and I went through our divorces together, incredibly today she told me she is breaking up with her BF tomorrow, this is the second time she has tried to break up with him, first time was very similar to yours, she thought he deserved answers, they went back and forth as to how he can change these little things that annoyed her...she wasn't quite certain the relationship should end, I think he was like G was to you, "almost the one" and closer than any others so it was very hard to admit defeat, let go when she knows how many awful dates she had to go through to find a guy even close to what she wanted and she'll have to start the search all over again...anyway, we just got through going for a walk and as we walked she said, "I have to break up with him, I realized last night that I don't even love him like I should any more." Thinking back, I think she was starting to fall in love with him at one point, but the little differences and the things that get on her nerves about him have made her grow more distant than close to him. Anyway, she said, "I know he deserves answers again but I just don't want to go through the same thing as last time, with me pointing out differences and him being positive and pointing out ways to fix them. Anyway, I told her, "I think this time you should just say, I don't love you the way I should and it can't be forced, you are a wonderful person and nothing is wrong with you, you are just not for me." and leave it at that.

While I know your situation is different because you seem to have loved G very much, I think like my friend, you too are starting to lose a lot of respect for G and in time would have lost a lot of the feelings for her

Also, just wanted to say, I think G is sincere when she says she is not angry and she really is disappointed. I think this because two years ago both times J broke up with me, I never got angry, I never took it personally like that, it wasn't my personality and it probably just isn't G's either. How can a person be angry with someone when they are just expressing their true feelings? You can't help that, just like J couldn't either. She knows your a great guy, and deep down I think she knows your right.

Anna

AGG,

This is the time for NO CONTACT. NC.

YOU are dragggggggingggg this thing out.

NC.

You've said what you mean in a face to face.

If you truly want to end this, then END IT. NO CONTACT.

The pain/questions/second guessing/promsing to change/accomodations will only continue.

If you continue to email, it will go on and on and on and on and on.......

You've ended it.

END IT.

Yup, this does sound very similar to my story with G, and that is why I am against getting into the breakup reasoning - if one person does not want to break up, they will keep arguing against it, to no end. Not to be difficult, but because to them these truly were not good enough reasons.


Yes, I sensed this with G as well. When we were just going out on dates, it was wonderful, but when we spent any considerable amount of time together, especially with my kids (which meant more responsibility), I found myself frustrated and annoyed at how little she helped, and I felt myself become distant, which she noticed of course.


I know that this is true, which is why I did not want to keep trying, until finally we both hate each other. Like Who_Dat said, I'd rather retain the good memories than grind them into nastiness, sadness, and anger.


I'd like to think that this is the case, Anna, thanks for the good thoughts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Well, we basically did that. I consider today to have been "mopping up" operations, because I know she was completely blindsided yesterday, and I do think that she deserved to at least ask a few basic questions ("is this really the end", "can you bring my stuff back", "can I ask why?"), instead of me walking out last night and leaving her completely confused.

But now I plan to go into a regrouping mode and not have further contact. I told her that was my plan, and she said she'll honor it.

AGG

This such a difficult situation & probably there is no one right answer for every couple breaking up.

I am sorry for the pain this causes both of you.

I can absolutly understand your reluctance to spell all the painfull details out to G especially if she's inclined to pick them apart. No body wins that game.

I don't have the answer what will make both of you feel better. Her with a better/clearer understanding of why a future with her is untenable for you. You a way to provide answers that won't be picked at & leave a neat end.

(((AGG)))

Well, I have been feeling better than expected the last couple of days. I feel very relieved. And I think that tells me something, because the last two times I tried to break up, I felt awful. So I think this tells me that this was the right thing to do.

Every once in a while I think of G, and how she must be struggling trying to figure all this out. I know that for her, she felt totally blindsided, and I know it is very hard to understand when something like this happens. So of course I feel really sad for her.

Still, I don't feel like I did the worng thing. So, I am slowly moving on and getting back into my routine.

AGG

If G as wonderful and sweet a person as you've said she is then she'll have no problem meeting someone who finds her compatible. "Real" women are a rarity <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Glad you're feeling better about your situtaion. Knowing that you don't need to to settle is a powerful thing.
Best of luck to you both.