bob-

I think I might still be confused...let me see if I'm getting this straight...you set up 3 boundaries for yourself and informed Squid of what they were...never mind, I think I get it. Every once in a while the light bulb turns on!

You gave her (yourself) 3 months to agree to your boundaries knowing that she wasn't going to right away, right? That's what I wasn't getting at first.

I'm being "accused" of being a doormat, though, every time WH talks to OW. I don't want that, I don't want to be a doormat, but I know that he's not ready for NC yet, even though he should be, IMO. I'm trying to be understanding toward him, because I know once it's established, it's going to be hard and by kicking him out again, or me moving out again, is going to send mixed signals and he's going to think that I don't want to be there for him, when I told him the other night that I was there for him no matter what. I want to be his soft place to fall when he falls and I want to encourage him, not force him to establish NC.

I'm not saying I'm refusing anyone's advice and I hope people don't stop posting advice to me because they think that, but it's a lot of information to absorb at one time, and it does confuse me for a bit. I'm not trying to argue, I have nothing to argue against, I don't know what I'm doing, I just want to understand things completely before I make any sudden moves. Things need to be straight in my head before I can do them effectively. None of this is straight with me right now.

It all makes sense and it's all going in different directions.

I didn;t know if Squid would comply or not Steph when I told her my boundaries. When she railed against my boundaries I replied "well if our situation was reversed would YOU tolerate less ? What would YOU think of your behaviour towards me if I had used it against you?". She HATED that but it helped explain my boundaries in a way that cut through the fog. Also "can you explain why you think my boundaries are unreasonable please?".

That " not ready for NC" is horsesh1t, sorry. He will never be ready for NC unless he has compelling reason to change.

Your boundaries and plan A, and potential plan B are an opportunity for him to change.

force him to establish NC.

You aren't forcing anything using my plan. Just making clear the consequences of his choices.

He can stay in touch with OW, even live with her if he wants but not stay in your home and life if thats the choice he makes.

Steph your previous reply to me was a brave, dynamic Steph. This post shows a frightened, enabling, overly accepting steph IMO.

Its as though two dogs are fighting inside you for control of your will Steph - one dignified and one desperate.

Do you know which one will win ? The one you feed.

Thank you bob.

I will feed the dignified Steph. I know I deserve better than he's giving me and I'm going to start fighting for that, not my M anymore. It's all about me. My life will go on whether he's beside me or not. It's his choice. IMO, it's going to take him a he11 of a lot longer to get over me than it will to get over her, if he chooses D. I've told him this and he agrees!

I'm not sure what I mean by him not being ready for NC. It's not something he's said to me, ever. I guess I don't feel he's ready for it, which is why we're not truly in R, even though he moved back home.

Everything you've told me is what I plan on telling WH. I just feel we need this chance before jumping into Plan B after only a week.

aaaaand,...if OW DOESN'T leave job...

...because I see that OW's 'new job' has already been postponed from November to January..and your WS for now is not prepared to leave job....

.....otherwise sounds like your future is RIDING on OW's plans!

stph20....in my case...OW and WS work together...I had heard that OW planned to 'retire' in the summer of 2006...I was counting a 'bit' on that to see how things would be were OW and WS no longer working together....guess what? ....heard her plans had changed!...so I called up OWH....he confirmed that OW had decided to 'stay on' another 3 years!!!! to get 'full' retirement... knowing that the 'working together' element was a big factor in the A.....my guess is that was OW's way of keeping the 'fusional' stage of A going..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



....I 'get' the wishful thinking, stph20....because I did some it myself...the analogy that usually 'brings it home' for a BS is to imagine the risk of an alcoholic NOT drinking while working at a bar.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Good luck..stph20...try to 'detach' a little...I know what it means living with a WS....it can be VERY damaging!

Thanks luna.

I had thought of the possibility of the job being pushed back even further, but the place she's going to opens in March, so if it doesn't fall through altogether, that's the latest she'll be there. IF it doesn't fall through altogether...

I don't know that my question was wishful thinking...I guess maybe it was a little bit, but only because I know (knew) my husband. If he's committed to me and comes out of the fog, I think, knowing how he is, it is possible for him to see her at work and not think anything of it. OW is the one now trying to keep their thing alive.

You've been in Plan B since July 2005 luna? Do you still have hope your marriage can be saved? How have you done it?

Lexxxy - before she he moved back in she was preparing for Plan B. WH moved back in uninvited. I suggested getting him to read as it may have helped him to understand about NC. There is NO inconsistency in my position here. Stef has been advised by all of those people off this board.

deleted by stph20

well then clearly I'm the one who doesn't know whats going on....I'll bow out.

Lexxxy,

Don't bow out...the advice you've given me has been immeasurable. I truly missed you when you didn't post to me for a while, I was so glad you were back. Don't leave me again!

I need to see all sides of the spectrum for this to make sense to me and you do that for me.

I'm asking you to stay.

Lexxxy's advice isn't different to me than bobpure's advice, why is it being treated that way?

Stef,

I asked Bob Pure to post to you here. His advice is to do a short plan A - short meaning maybe 2 weeks. Bob Pure also thought you had children. You did a stellar Plan A Stef albeit you stuffed it with some LB'ing this week.

I do not believe he will establish NC voluntarily at any time - Now, January, July, December.

You will have to do a Plan B otherwise he will make your life miserable. By January you will hate your WH. You think it's bad now? Let's see how bad it will get after a couple of months of cake eating.

I only read th emost recent stuff.

But in any case my advice to re-run plan A but with CLEAR BOUNDARIES added stands.

Plan A without the context of boundaries is enablement IMO.

Short, excellent plan A after you tell your H your inviolable boundaries. Practice writing ways of telling him that donot sound like selfish demands before you tell him.

Then after your chronological "drop dead" date, go plan B.

BTW I do not expct , fom what I read, that your H wil take this seriously until you go dark and stay dark. EXPECT plan B unless you H mans up unexpectedly.

As I said before, Hope is NOT a plan. Waywards usually need a compelling reason to change their comfortb;le behvaiours. Its all about THEM remember ? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All blessings.

thanks for your kind words stph.

I was on a family vacation for my brothers wedding -- thats why I was missing in action for a couple weeks. It was really wonderful!

I don't think I can advise you. There is too much off-board stuff going on, and I don't really feel like I know the whole story. The only thing I'll say is that I hope you will talk to Steve Harley. He's the real pro.

This is just such a surreal sitution for me to be the proponent of Plan A while everyone else is encouraging Plan B. I don't see what BigK sees. I don't think you've done a stellar Plan A. You hadn't identified his needs or how to meet them really well. You haven't gotten the hang of making big LBank deposits. You've been impatient and lovebusting. And even with that you've made progress. If you REALLY got the swing of Plan A, and rallied your allies (OWBF, work people, etc) you could be a force!!

Your WH isn't more outrageous, or more of a cake-eater, or more disrespectful, than any other WH around here. He's just your standard old WH. So I don't understand what the rush to Plan B is. Its been what? 2 months since D-Day? And during that time he left and you floundered.

Now that he's come home -- what exactly is the rush to get him back out? Has he done something horrible? Is he abusive? What is it that I don't know?

Lexxxy, thanks for posting again.

I hope you enjoyed your vacation!

Email me...my address is in my sig line. I'll try to catch you up.

you've got mail....

you do too...

This is just fanciful wishful thinking Stef. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the affair to end and your marriage to recover if you don't have NC.

IMPOSSIBLE

Chance of Recovery = 0%

BK is absolutely correct.

In all the thousands of posts that I have read I have NEVER read of a marriage recovering while continued contact exist.

NEVER!!

All my day to day familiarities with this same subject reveal the same results.

So whatever it takes to obtain NC is crucial to the success of your M.

Dr. Harley says that NC is forever and that the couple that is serious about maintaining same should even be prepared to move away in order for this to be achieved.

I understand NC is vital. So does WH, to an extent. But it's hard for him to go "cold turkey" and I understand that too. Right now, he doesn't see her for more than 2 minutes a day and they don't hardly talk at all. It's more than they should, I know that, but WH is trying really hard. He'll get there, I know that. Until then, I'm going to do the best I can to show him that he did not make a mistake by coming home. We had a heart-to-heart last night and everything we talked about leads me to believe that he's committed to me. He only talks to OW about work during the 2 minutes he has to see her and doesn't want to do anything else with her. He says now that he's come home, it feels wrong this time to do anything physical.

In my opinion, judging from our talk last night, Plan B is not needed as of yet.

WH is trying really hard

No he isn't.

NC is binary. A simple decision. Cut OW out of both yourlives or not.

Anything less than that is not "trying hard" it is active disrespect of you and spitting on your marriage.

PLEASE don't sell admission back into your heart so cheaply.

Its not a LOT to ask really is it ?

"don't see the slut you had an affair with".