Hi luna! I missed you while you were gone!

I'll try really hard not to LISTEN, but rather to watch his ACTIONS. It's hard to do but I'm learning. It really hurts to watch the lack of actions. Especially when WH isn't getting it yet. I expect him not to get it yet, but it still doesn't feel good.

(((((lunamare)))))

And that is exactly my point Stef - your mind intellectually tells you not to listen but your emotions do listen and con you.

Well it's not easy BigK!

But I'm trying. I just get caught up in our "talks", and I feel bad by his lack of action.

stph20...in my case, until WS 'moved out'...it was not SINKING IN that this was not the same man I married.... I wanted to sooo badly hold on to what he HAD been in the past...that I was 'refusing' to SEE what he NOW was choosing to be.... and believe me...WS was being a in-your-face cake-eating WS...there wasn't even room for doubt...and I STILL wanted to BELIEVE he would WAKE UP and everything would be OK! (BS fog!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I could KID myself as long as WS had not yet chosen to move out (BS fog!).... when he did...I had no choice but to face REALITY .... and it hit me like a ton of brick...and not after a lot of damage had been done.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

...as I tredded the waters of not having a 'reason' to live...I wondered: had I allowed WS to 'break' my spirit? ..and realized that not only was WS betraying me, but I was betraying myself by being part of the 'dance', and promised myself to do whatever it took to no longer be part of, what was obvious to me now, a very 'destructive' dance ....

I broke the 'dance' with PLAN B...and total N/C with WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I am so proud for having cared enough about myself...to have had the strength and courage to choose PLAN B....to protect myself....and the mother of my boys....and face my future challenges with dignity and respect...and no...my spirit was not broken! ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

...at times....I am in awe of the human spirit and its capabilities!


Those of us who have been 'there'...lived 'moments of despair'....would really rather not see you go there, hoping to somehow save you that 'trip'....it really is no fun at all....and certainly no WS is worth it!

Right now....you can't 'trust' your feelings nor what WS says....TRUST what you see.... and base your actions on that... that is why a PLAN and DATES and CONDITIONS are important....not so much for WS....but mostly for you....to force YOURSELF as well as WS to have the MINIMUM respected .... otherwise.... BSs tend to 'lower' standards for all sorts of reasons....fear...hope...dreams....love... and 'excuse' WSs actions...particularly if WS is back in the home.....where it gets easier to 'fantasize'... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Remember...that as long as no N\C with OW is in place...it's like living with the enemy.... and the risk for damage is very HIGH...and so the stress level can get very high....it will be very important for you to do things for 'YOU'....look after your needs as much as you can....and NOT expect anything from WS...and that way minimize the damage!

I never understood before why some spouses allowed themselves to be physically abused, broken bones and all, so many times and NOT leave.... now I undestand...victims are usually persuaded by the 'perpetrator', and choose to believe, that it is 'something' they did, and if only they could change....then the abuse would stop.....and the cycle continues....

...WRONG!....it is up to the 'perpetrator' to want to change....and for the victim to stop 'enabling' the abuse...

I consider an A extreme emotional and psychological abuse....

I cannot change what has happened to me...but I sure as heck will do what I can to WARN others about what COULD happen to them....it's the best I can do....by sharing this with you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

(((((((((((((((((((((STPH20))))))))))))))))))

Thank you luna. You are very inspiring. I'm still learning, but I'll get there.

Thank you for CARING.

Sometimes it amazes me still that WS's can do such a cruel thing to their spouse and the spouse is still willing to forgive and fix whatever went wrong. I am awed by the power of love and the human spirit.

Luna - You just so totally rock.

BigK, everything is fine, besides the fact that now I'm pissed off.

WH had left me a message earlier saying that he was going to have to work late, but my phone is acting up, so it never rang and it didn't tell me I had a message until just now, and it took me forever to access it.

I'm mad because he had to stay late, which is fine, but then his brother showed up at his job and he just decided to go out with him, AFTER leaving me a smart-a$$ message about me not believing him about him working late. He said if I didn't believe him, he didn't care, but that's what was going on.

I just called him back and told him not to be such a smart-a$$ the next time he left me a voice mail. He said he was sorry but he didn't think I would believe him. I said you don't care, so what does it matter? He said, what do you mean I don't care? I said, you just told me that you don't care in a voice mail. He said, OK, I'm going. So I hung up on him.

Why does he have to make me so mad?

Why does he have to make you so mad? Rhetorical question I presume?

Stef - He has no respect for you. He has gotten off scot free so far for his affair - so why would he respect you? He's contributing nothing to recovery - his attitude is "I'm here - you should be grateful" This type of LB'ing behaviour from him will mean come January you won't care if he is still working with OW or not - you will be done.

He wants blind trust from you. He's indignant that you don't trust him. For you to trust him he has to exhibit trustworthy behaviours.

Tell me Stef - apart from him continuing his affair past January, what other issues would cause you to divorce him? What boundaries do you have?

He has to earn your trust. He is in no position to demand it. Here you are Stef - the betrayed spouse but you are on the back foot because your alien WH is still exhibiting entitlement and WH behaviour.

Please try to not LB him OK??

He told me last night that he would start doing the work it took for us to get past this. I don't know if I'm jumping the gun or not since there's no NC yet.

It all goes back to Plan B, doesn't it?

I'm sticking with my plan BigK.

I'm going to try and stop the LBing. I get sick of his attitude though. He's so indignant all the time.

I'm still working on my boundaries. I don't know where else to go though, besides NC and transparency.

He doesn't know how to show respect. He's not getting it yet. All he wants to do is joke around and make fun of everything. He's so infantile and it drives me nuts.

If he doesn't grow up and learn to respect me and honor my wishes and do the work that it's going to take for us to fix this, I will divorce him. He's got until January 31.

I can live without him in every way except financially, and I'll manage some way without that.

What does he consider to be "doing the work" Stef? What is his plan?

The reason NC is so important is because without it the emotional bond with OW is not broken and the affair can re-ignite at any time. Because the emotional bond is not broken, he does not withdraw. He is eating cake because he has 2 women he is emotionally bonded to meeting his needs and he has no incentive to change whilever that continues.

Why did you marry him Stef? What made you fall in love with him? The same things that now drive you crazy perhaps?

I KNOW!!! I told him, pretty much word for word the exact same thing last night.

Well, last night, "doing the work" meant going over and learning MB principles with me. We discussed this at 11:30 last night, so it may have been said just to get me to shut up so we could go to bed. But he was agreeable to me teaching him everything that I've learned so far.


I married him because I loved him. What made me fall in love with him?.....everything about him. His willingness to help anybody with anything...his kindness, his sense of humor, his good looks, the fact that no matter what we did, we ALWAYS had a good time together. Everything was more fun when we did it together. It didn't take too long until we realized that we wanted this forever. We both fell in love fast and hard.

Trouble is, I think he wanted the infatuation to last forever and when it started to fade, he felt that he wasn't in love with me anymore.

Now he's just "not sure".

Be very careful about "teaching" him Stef - point him in the right direction. Infidelity FAQ's are a good start. "Teaching" him is a LB - a disrespectful judgement.

Well, you know what I mean...don't you?

I have no intention of cramming anything down his throat...I already made that mistake! I'm not going to mention any more about it until he's ready for it.

he needs to take the steps.

What do you mean?

I simply mean it's not your job to educate him even when he is ready. Print stuff out. Show him where it is for him to read when he is ready. He needs to make the effor himself. He needs to decide he needs to do the work, not you telling him.

Hi Steph and BigK,

I just wanted to pop in and say hi. I just saw your post on TKO and was worried about you Steph.

How old is your H Steph? He sounds about the same age as my H - still having tantrums!

Listen to BigK Steph and chin up, you can do this because you have a lot of "mates" supporting you. You didn't know I spoke Aussie did you Bigk?

Wish I could offer some advice Steph. but I am a failure at this. I am praying for you though.

Love Beth

Hi Beth and thank you for your thoughts. They are always appreciated.

I'm doing my best to listen to BigK. But sometimes he's too smart for his own good! He drives me just as crazy as WH!! LOL. J/K BigK!

No need to worry, I'm doing OK now. If nothing else, this keeps me from thinking about WH, if that makes any sense!

Bwhahahahahaha STef.

Beth - I did know you spoke Aussie. LOL.