Posting here for more traffic:

My fiance and i got engaged on our two year anniversary earlier this year. We have had a rocky relationship and at times have seperated.


This happened months ago (april):


Two weeks after our engagement we had a huge fight. He left the house, drunk, and went ot the bar with his friends. I was so angry I refused to pick up his calls that night.

He came home very apologetic and we made up. A month later he confessed to cheating on me. During that month we were not sexually involved (i didnt know why but he didnt want me to add to the problems by adding sex into the equation when he told me; i did find it a bit odd that we werent involved but btw work and school i didn't really think about it) I never had inkling of what happened and did not catch him 'in his lie' so to speak

The story goes:
Well turns out that night this woman who was interested in him (while we were broken up at another point) "found him" (how coincidental this is on her part is debated...) at hte bar and proceeded to have drinks/chit chat. He was completely drunk (i knew that before he left) and he continued to drink at the bar. He walked her ot her car and she made a move on him. They proceeded to make out in the vehicle but did not (due to inability) have sexual intercourse. She left. He claims he called his friend to come get him. And he cried in his drunken stupor until he was brought home (verified by phone records) Even though he says he did not have intercourse...he does no deny that it is still an affair. (so hes not trying to pull the 'we didnt have sex' card)


This all happend in april and he told me in may.

Of course i immediately told him to hit the road....but i guess it didnt become that simple.

We took steps to repair the relationship and i want ot know if i am doing the right thing or if ...under no circumstances should i forgive him. If i can/should get past this...is there anything else we should do.

* He was tested for all STD's. This he showed me the results of.

* He Called his parents and My mother and told them what happened

* We went to counseling (though i found it less than helpful and too "hippy-ish" for me) He is willing ot go back if I ask

* I get to see all of his phone bills/internet accounts/computer. He shows me w/o me asking. He will call any number listed if I ask him and dont know who it is.

* ONE OF HTE MOST IMPORTANT: He has NOT had a single drink since he told me.

* He does not go to bars with his friends without me.

* this particular woman has moved out of town. (but i know it wasnt an EA so of course i worry about his "choices")

*I've told him we arent engaged (we are dating) and he is ok with this.

* he has never placed blame on me and says I can talk to him anytime I want to. (which i do)


Am i crazy for wanting to forgive him for this? Does this doom our marriage? Some advice please.

your man is a lot more responsible for what he did than my ex... but please know that this could be a huge indicator for future problems.

If you do try and forgive and marry him, I wish you luck and pray he never does this again... but I have one suggestion for you... PRE NUP!!!!!! Don't leave home without it!

Welcome to marriagebuilders. It is a good place to be. I see no problem with forgiving him and continuing to date him.

I do have a question about his drinking habits. How much does he drink a week? Does he drink and drive?

Also what kind of issues do the two of you have that make your relationship rocky?

Right now he doesnt drink at all.

When we met...he was a party boy. He and his friends would go out a lot... But by the night of his A... drinking was an occasional thing. Maybe a beer once a week and more for certain occasions.

Were he grew up (unfortunately) drinking and driving was the norm. Lots of open land, no traffic lights, no other people for miles and only one bar. None of that now of course.

Rocky Stuff... wow...funny how you forget when suddenly you have bigger problems. We both are extremely independant, driven and opinionated. So we had a lot of learning ot do wiht getting along. His past gf's were pushover (his own admittance) and he had never dated a "smart" woman. A lot of it was learning ot adjust our behaviors to be in a relationship rather than just having a boyfriend or girlfriend.

btt

If your boyfriend's changes "stick" then I'd say he may be worth holding on to. Time will tell.

Obviously, since you had problems before this incident, there are things you can probably do differently, too, to improve this relationship or perhaps future ones. Are you familiar with the Basic Concepts?
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

My honest opinion is that your relationship has started over. The two years you had before don't count. You need to see that he can be faithful to and radically honest with you for a long time now. And you need to work on what you have done to contribute to a rocky relationship.


Mrs. W8ing

Losthopes,

Welcome to MB’s.

I feel for you in your situation.

To me there really isn’t anything different between being married and not being married in a committed relationship.

People that will smash one boundary will eventually smash them all.

This is based upon my experiences in life and I’m just an average man with meager education and wisdom.

To me it would be only be wise to tie the knot with this man you love IF he is up to the challenge of working completely through MC and IC and figuring out what it is inside of him that is broken.

If he’s a “party boy” that has had repeated negative effects on his life and indulged in selfish immaturity while drunk then he’s likely an alcoholic.

There will be no MB with an alcoholic.

I know this because I am one of those with many other problems.

If I was never married to someone and didn’t have children with them and started out like this it would seem a dauntingly negative way to get off on the right foot.

Then again, if he’s committed to working through all the hassle of self exploration with sincerity and the desire to be a better person that would be a big positive.

Every S is capable of cheating. Thus your H has now proven to us all that he is human.

Let me ask you a question though.

Will you ever be able to truly forgive him and what will it take for you to mean that in absolute terms?

Whatever the outcome make sure you follow MEDC’s advice and get a pre-nup if you do get married.

Make this a boundary for you both.

neither one of you are ready for marriage

end the engagement

date other men

travel and experience more of life

it's a whole big world out there

he's not right for you ... and it might take years for him to become right .... and the longer you hold onto Mr not-right, the more you stay out of loyalty and not because he is Mr Right

look around and take advantage of the choices women have to actually choose a man who would NEVER hurt her in this way ....

don't engage/marry/live with a "fixer-upper"

he's not so wonderful that you should suspend your life and throw away other opportunities

tell him

"I'm going to look around the world a bit and do some growing up of my own. This uncludes dating other men."

this should not be held to a vote .... especially not his vote ... you're young and you're free to pick & choose amongst quality men

get out there and look around and BE PARTICULAR

Pep

remember

you are NOT asking for his opinion/permission/approval

you ARE announcing your decision to look around the world and take advantage of all your opportunities

Pep

Plus

he is entitled to react to your announcement in any way he choses ... unless it he becomes ugly/threatening/scary

he might sulk/cry/pout/yell/celebrate/whine/make faces/argue/complain/beg ... and otherwise show himself to care more about what he wants than what is BEST for you !!!

and NONE of that means YOU are responsible for making him feel "OK" with your decision

you are NOT doing this to hurt him

you are doing this to emancipate yourself from this not-so-good relationship ... and claim your RIGHT (and your RESPONSIBILITY to yourself)to look around for not only "better" ... but BEST for you!

Pep

Dating is like aduitioning for a job

audition ~~~> a demonstration of the candidates suitability and skill

this boyfriend failed his audition

you say ~~~> "next"

Pep

Is he BEST for you?

no

he is NOT

how do I know?

I look at who he is and how he behaves without any personal neediness to mold him into something he is not

stand far far back from him ... and take a really clear non-emotional look ... is he a MATURE MAN ?

No, he is NOT a mature MAN

he is a young male with a drinking problem and poor impuse control ...

he's NOT ready

and you should NOT be his life-coach .... life will be his life-coach

Pep

sounds like your man has done a lot of growing up. it is not easy for me to suggest that a person stay with a fiancee that has strayed. But take a look at who he is today and if you truly love him and want to make it work, I would say give it a chance... but make sure there are clear expectations for behaviors that you both agree on.

people are not interchangable. people make mistakes in many types of committed relationships. the mistakes that many make... and I was the king of this... is to continue allowing the same mistakes over and over and hoping things would change.

If your man has made his mistakes AND has learned from them you may wind up with a very good mate who is exceptionally appreciative of what he has in you.

Dating other men... if you are in love with your boyfriend.. is probably not what you want to do or necessarily should do.

If you decide to date other people, I would make a clean break from him as I suspect that there really is not a true feeling of love there. Also, dating other men when you are in love with another is not fair to the new men you would meet. I doubt that if you went out with a new man and were honest about your feelings towards your boyfriend, any good man is not going to be willing to invest time/effort.

Follow your heart but use your head too. Whatever you do, best of luck to you.

if you marry him after he's cheated on you

you marry him accepting the risk that he has a higher probability to cheat on you in the future than a man who NEVER cheated on you

once you accept that risk you forfet any future claim of innocence of that risk

if he cheats on you in the future you cannot say "I never thought he's cheat on me." ~~~> instead you must admit "I knew he might cheat on me based on his past performance. This is not a surprise to me."

that is the mature acceptance of the future risk when one marrys a known cheater

hence MEDC's sage advice ~~~> pre-nup agreement ... stating if he commits adultery while married, he forfets his half of marital $$$ assets.

get it?

Pep

Pep... you are just a wee bit off on this one...

pre nup... if he screws up again... he forfeits 80% of everything! That is the consequence of his infidlity to her! If he is genuine and has learned... he will readily agree to this.... if not... time for her to move on.

I can tell you that I would sign a pre nup stating that infidelity in a M will result in 100% forfeiture of my assets.... why, because I know what I will do and will not do.

It is okay to put this man's character to the test... and I say put your money where your mouth is.

80% has a nice ring to it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MEDC

I agree with you about if she's going to "see other men" to let this one go completely ... but I was sortof working my way up to that point ... but thanks for pointing that out to her

I donno about the 80% thing ... you're probably right, but I donno ... I think he'd refuse to sign anything ... and I also doubt she'd have the ability to maintain that boundary .... she's a girl, and girls are often soft in this area ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I know how a young woman's mind works ... they tend to give away the farm to a prospective future husband in the false hope/belief that giving him everything before marriage would make him want to marry her more ... when in fact, the opposite is true ... it DEmotivates most young men to work hard in the relationship when they already have everything without much effort on their part...

I watched young girls give themselves up to my son (who was a mess at the time) because he's handsome & plays the guitar ... I mean they just handed him everything on a silver platter & he used most of them terribly ... I was/am so ashamed of his behavior during that time ... and I talk to his sister (she's 17) about the consequences of just handing one's self over so cheaply

thankfully, our son is on a hiatus from women and concentrating on his career/education/friends/future ... because he's just not fully available for any woman ... probably not for a few more years

but back to my point ... young women give too much too fast wanting to be loved rather than picking and choosing THE BEST ... they accept "fixer-uper" not ready guys ...

and to be CLEAR ~~~> I don't think this boyfriend is a "bad guy" ... he's simply not THE BEST and he's simply not mature/ready for marriage

I've seen it so many times ... I do the pap smears & STD checks on these women & hear their stories .... enough to notice patterns

Pep

ok ok first i am not some idiot young girl who is ready to "give away the farm" just to have some guy love me. Neither one of us are dumb kids. I also haven't "let him off hte hook" in regard to what he did...but i am (for now) still with him. His parents know about it, my mom does, his friends etc. Even my own mother, who i trust very much, says im definately not letting him get away with it too easy.


I am NOT going to date other people. That is not how "I" work. I will either end this relationship completely, and permantently, or I will try to make it work until I decide to end it.

I love my bf very much despite that he has made a life altering mistake. Will I actually marry him? At this point I don't know.

What im gathering from you guys is that all of his changes, no matter how drastic, are not enough. Is that correct?

Obviously I am not trying ot run off ot marry him tomorrow or this month or anytime soon. I was hoping to feel a "chance" for us because of how hard he has been trying but your posts have definately made me question that.

Thanks for the responses. I look forward to more.

I'm not sure how you would have come to that conclusion from my or Plank's post. You may very well wind up with a very good man if he is genuine in his changes. Please re read the posts from Plank and me to get their true meaning.

Having a pre nup does not mean you need to send him packing... it means you need to be careful.

I feel like you must have missed the following words.

I really like how you defended yourself & stood up to me LostHopes

good for you!

Pep

Thanks. I just didnt like being told that I was stupid for trying to make things work. I certianly am not looking at things through rose colored glasses. I'm also not so desperate to marry that i would put up with a horrible situation. If it wasnt for his genuine change in behavior (and of course more time is needed there) I wouldnt even be giving him a chance. He has never blamed his actions on me nor has he blamed them on the alcohol (though we both know its a contributing factor) He also didnt take his actions lightly or try to brush them away.

I am upset it took him so long (a month) to tell me...but am soothed by the fact that he did tell me (I didnt catch him or have any inkling) Also during that month he was having nervous breakdowns and generally not doing so well. He is a Phd student and his work is very stressful so i attributed it to that.

A pre-nup is a good idea. I have mentioned it to him before and will mention it again.(my mentioning it was greeted with a laugh since right now we are both graduate students with very little assets) Of course right now we are not even engaged. (i wont wear the ring and he even told me to throw it out) So marriage is far off. I need to see his new behaviors 'stick' before ill consent ot anything.

Its just so hard knowing this is there. And will never go away. Sometimes the better man he becomes (and he has) the harder it is.


My next question is about who should know? I have very few female friends and have confided in one. Another I have not told because I am afraid of her reaction. Her parents are dealing with a long term PA/EA and I know how hard it was on her. (especially in reference to her own relationships) His friends know, my mother knows (he called her and told her what he did) and his parents know (he is very close wiht them and he called them too) I get along with his parents very well and consider them top quality people.

Some people notice i dont wear my ring but i shrug it off. I just dont feel like airing my dirty laundry and dont feel its anyone's business (who is not very close to me). Is this a bad approach