LMAO...see I'm still on my toes... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The detachment thing, just hit me! So I feel you! LOL

I've seen this type of 'ploy' before. Know your boundaries and you will recognize if he is being sincere or setting you up. These are difficult times. Times where you as a BS need to use that clear mind and calm heart. Lots of patience.

This is not the time to cater to him. He is reaching out but his reasons are unknown. So proceed with caution. He does nice things, be nice in return. No R or M talk. Be civil but not overly happy with his progress.

The WS in him will want you to validate his efforts. Not a good idea. If he asks for your opinion, give it as best you can but no high 5's or extra credit praises.

He s/b a nice H and father. That's not special, that's his job. If he goes beyond that (on your scale), thank him. No special treatment.

This will allow you to be able to gauge his WS' virus. He may be trying to mask it, especially if the OW is giving him a bad time. He may be trying to turn to you for support. Don't support a WS. Let him know you love and will support your H as your H and NOT as a WSH.

See the difference?

L.

I think I could have all of my needs for physical touch met if I could get massages every day. There's a therapist who comes to our office twice a week and does 20 minute chair massages for $10 .... and it just feels so good just to be touched .... it's so nice. I think I might develop a new weekly massage habbit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I haven't been giving WH any special treatment or catering to him, I don't think. Have been chatting with him more often, not about anything in particular. And have been doing the normal things, he eats dinner with us, I buy his things that he likes when I go grocery shopping, or I include his laundry when I do a load, things like that .... but nothing I'd consider special. Is even that overboard?

I'm also trying to be very guarded and careful .... not leaping to anything. Trying to picture that rabbit hole and detach from his choices. Good or bad .... just trying to hang on......

I can't wait to go to Denver on Thursday!!! I'm looking forward to the weekend SOOO much.

-AmI.

Great self-care on the massage, AmI...

I had my first massage ever when DH was WH. And had a couple more, too, during that time.

Manicures and pedicures count, too.

Even if you don't have the "nails" for it.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's gorgeous here (as I'm sure it is where you are)...full of color and zest in the air...that stunning Fall extravaganza going on, AmI, where all the trees are like runway models, artfully casting their leaves, striking, and getting thinner by the hour.

I bet it will nourish your soul.

Did you know I was in your home area last year at this time for the first time in my life? I think Sturgis05 did the same trip this year...see? You're not alone.

LA

Big painful talk with WH today.

I had given WH a list of all the bills for the month, and asked him to pay 3/4 of most of them ... mortgage, utilities, groceries, etc. I also asked him to pay half of my vehicle payment, since we paid off his truck already and I'm the one who drives the kids around all the time.

I had left a copy for him and also e-mailed it to him.

I went home at lunch today, and as soon as I walked inthe house, he told me I was "F-ing crazy" and he "ain't paying that S***."

I asked him what he thought was appropriate and fair, since he was still living in the house? He ranted and raged for a while, touched on everything, told me how cruel I was being, and how dare **I** play the "kid" card by charging him for the kids to live there ..... I just listened and repeated. Which seemed to work. It eventually calmed him down quite a bit.

Then SH's office called to set up our next appointment. WH says "No way in he11!" and stomps off. I went ahead and set it up for just me, anyway.

So then WH was in the bedroom, sitting on the bed, and I went in there and sat on the couch and asked him what he wanted to do about the money situation, then. Said I am willing to negotiate, what do you think is appropriate.

He said if he was going to pay that much "rent" then, he was moving his own bed into the master bedroom, and he'd move mine down into the basement. He also said he is still furious aobut the rental house, and that he has two houses, he is not going to start paying rent on another one. And that I'm using the rental house as my trump card, and I have that legal right, but then how come everyone thinks he's a jerk for playing his trump card, which is the kids. Then he went on about how he doesn't want to have to use them, but I was protecting myself, how come he can't protect himself. He also started railing about how it was his one goal in life to get his cousin out of that house, because his cousin is not family anymore. He said if he has to get a lawyer and force the sale of that house, he would do it, just to get his cousin out.

I asked him to please clarify for me if it was me he was angry at about hte rental house, or his cousin. He said both, although he knew that he had created the situation with me, so it was his own fault, so mostly he's mad at his cousin. (???)

I tried so hard to mention the things that SH had told me to talk about ... the theoretical, find out what it would take to fix this, etc. things. I asked him what he thought about that. He said there is no way, he hates me as much as his XW, can't stand to be in the room with me. He said that his XW also went after his career, and that's what I'd done. The one thing that defines him, and we both went straight after it. He said that he wouldnever be seen in public with me again because he's so humiliated by everything that happened with the letters. I let him rant about that, listening and repeating, for quite a while. And he asked me if I had any idea how humiliating it was for him to be going through this investigation now.

And that's when I spoke up. I said I understand you feel humiliated, it's probably similar to having to go to my Dr. -- the same Dr. who just the month before had been helping me try to get pregnant -- to get tested for STD's, and to have to tell him why. And getting calls from people I don't even know telling me that they'd seen my husband out, all over town, looking very cozy with another woman. And being left standing there alone watching my husband and children leave without me for my daughter's awards ceremony. I told him I could keep going with the list if he wanted.

Then I told him that I knew, without a doubt, that he would not be fired for the letters before I sent them. I said that his friend had been investigated for a felony, charged with sexual assault, and he only got two days off for it. That it wasn't my intent to go after his career, but it was absolutely my intent to shine some light on his dark little secret world and let anyone who could have any influence on him know what was still going on, and ask them to help me break it up. He argued and argued and argued this, called me a liar and said I was full of bs ... I just said I couldn't do anything about what he believes. That this was my intent, and he could choose to believe it or not. That that wasn't mine. He came back to this several, several times. Just wouldn't believe that I wasn't out to destroyhis career. I finallly asked him what he would have advised me to do. I said pretend this is your sister sitting here, and she's asking you waht to do .... what would you have said? He said that only because he hates her STBXH, and thinks he's garbage, then he would have said to go after him and thoroughly try to destroy him by writing letters like that. I said "I hear you saying that you think I tried to destroy you." He said "I forced your hand, how could you not."

He eventually calmed down a little bit and asked how I see this going, mentioned something about fighting through attorneys, etc.. I told him that I was following SH's plan ... gathering information about what it would take to heal this and make it better, that I believed that we could recover, and I'm finding out what it would take .... stepping through the logic .... that I thought SH was very logical and that he helped me a lot. I admitted that yes, I have hired an attorney so that I could find out what my options are and know how to protect myself if I have to. That I still believe in my vows and my commitment and that I was hurting like he11, but I will not put my kids through having their family torn apart again, I will not abandon my marriage or my family if there is a way to fix it. And that I have met people who have come back from much worse than we are now, and have so much better than we ever imagined possible, so I believe that it's possible, and that's what I'm working towards. He didn't respond, but kept asking questions .... asking what I meant by "protect myself", and brought back the phrase that I'd said earlier about "what's mine". I said that by what's mine, I mean the feelings and actions and beliefs that I own, what I'm responsible for. Learning that his choices -- even his choice to leave and go out with her right in front of me -- are his and not about me -- not mine. He thought I was talking about posessions ..... what I was going to take from him in a D. I said "no, that's pretty much the furthest thing from my mind right now."

I asked him what he thought. He said that we had both totally descimated any amount of trust that we ever could have had, and there's no way back from that. He said that there was no way I could ever trust him again. And I just said "I hear you saying that you don't think I could learn to trust you again." He said there's no way that I could, because I had tried and he just did it again. I said that finding that out was part of what I'm doing with SH, finding out what it would take to be able to trust him again. Then he said that he used to think that I "had his back" ... that I always was in his corner, and now he doesn't have anyone watching his back, there is no one in his corner. So I said "I hear you saying that you don't think you can learn to trust me again." And he didn't respond to that.

There were lots of long silencs .... lots of tears on my part and some on his. I told him that I hated crying in front of him, and he was really choked up at that point and said he hated seeing me cry in front of him, too.

It was about two hours, altogether .... there were a few little other conversations sprinkled in (his parents jobs, hunting season, my mom's latest vacation) once in a while, kind of to break the tension a little bit.

We finally got back around to the money issue, and I asked him what he thought was fair. He argued a couple of the things, but for the most part, agreed and gave me money to help with the months' expenses.

He even joked about the insurance payment ... they had sent us a letter a while back saying that our premiums were going up, but we could keep them lower by dropping him, which was very funny at the time. So he joked about probably having to pay more than half of the insurance premium. And he joked that DD should have to pay the whole cable bill (she loves watching TV).

When we both left the house, he was showing me some pictures on his cell phone ... being really chatty and pleasant.

We both drove out of the neighborhood in opposite ways, and then both realized we had to go the other way, so passed each other again, and he called me on my cell then, asking where I was going and what I was doing .... teasing me about following him. I told him I was headed to the bank, was it ok to deposit his check, and he joked about that, and said he was headed to the grocery store. He just chatted.....

I really don't know what to think. I'm trying so hard to be guarded and careful, but things like this really take it out of me. I'm very ready for this little mini-vacation tomorrow. I'm a mess right now ... and have a headache from crying.

I know I'm not suposed to get into these long, emotional conversations .... how do I stop it when he's willing to actually talk and not just pretend...? I jump at that oportunity, but can hear all the advice I've gotten here saying not to get drawn in to things like this.....

:::::::SIGH:::::::

-AmI.

Well Ami...

Personally I think you did well.

I think that these discussions should be few and far between...but in small doses..like this...when you handle yourself well...and it sounds like you did..it couldn't hurt and probably helped at least temporarily [read until he has more contact with OW and she works her @ss off to paint you a color she finds more amenable to her agenda].

Ami, I think you did well too. I would not have asked him for 3/4 of the bills though. That seems a bit over the top. 50% of the bills would be appropriate. Do not cater to the idea that the kids are not yours too. Asking him to pay 75% gives credibility to that notion.

Sleep well tonight. This is a long battle.

Ami, I agree you did fine. You will learn to refine your responses and direct the convo so it will have a greater impact a few days after it has happened. Most WSH's are slow to comprehend. Mine used to take 5 - 14 days to formulate an answer to 1 question. Yep, it's true. Simple stuff requiring yes or no responses. Talk about patience. I don't have that kind of patience, yet I was forced to deal with it. I learned to deal with it and move forward at the same time. Left the WS in the dust where he s/b.

As for the amount, I'd say since you aren't divorced yet, he owes 100% to the family. Out of which he s/b allowed some spending $$. Why? Because he is suppose t/b still part of the family. But notice how the WS (non-family member) in him thinks he is being robbed? Same source of income, same amount yet the disbursement in the WS eyes vs the H & dad eyes are different. So my take w/b something like:

BS: The family needs 75% of your net.

WS: WHAT??? That's too much.

BS: It is? Whose talking here? Is that the WS babbling? My real H knew he worked for his family. Who are you?

WS: I am _________..

BS: That's your name but WHO ARE YOU? What have you done with my H? Who is this selfish and greedy man who would take the family's means of support to fuel an A? WHO ARE YOU?

NOTE: That may sound mean but it will send a strong message to the WS to let him know you are aware he isn't the same person. That will eventually sink into his brain and cause him great misery. You want the WS t/b miserable. Your H wants the WS t/b miserable. Help him.

L.

Hey, sweetie! YOU are amazing. You did such a GREAT job!

Did you pat yourself on the back?

I don't have much to say these days...I miss my friends here! So, I wanted to let you know that YOU are in my heart and my thoughts, wishing you the best..knowing YOU can do it!

AMI -- these financial talks are another truth-bringing moment for you...

I think you did excellent!!!

The reality is: when he moves out on his own 100% of his income will have to go towards supporting himself and the kids. I think its great that it will be tight for him. He hasn't come to the realization of how easy and nice YOU make his life.

I have been following your thread and it seems like this is the first time that you have not Love Busted when expressing your feelings about your relationship to him. I like your "I hear you saying..." phrases...they make him think without letting him become defensive about you. I also liked your examples of your humiliation and also asking him to look at himself from an outside perspective. Keep up the good work!

It doesn’t feel like I did good. I feel stuck. WH has made it clear that he isn’t going anywhere, and he’s going after the rental house. He feels attacked, like I went after his job with the letters, and says that’s unforgivable.

And I don’t know what to do with that. I’m not sure what the balance is between “don’t believe anything a WS says, they all say exposure is unforgivable” and knowing that his feelings are his, and valid? I don’t want to apologize for the letters, but do I need to apologize that he thinks of it as an attack? I tried to explain that it wasn’t my intent, but it’s still valid that he feels that way, right?

So how do I acknowledge his feelings as valid?

I have been out of town yesterday and today, and will be for the weekend. He has been text-messaging me, just chatting, all day both days. Weather, kids schedules, he was going to go hunting ....... etc.

I just don’t get it. And I feel like I’m crazy sometimes. Yesterday, a friend of mine who works on his crew said that he still talks about his wife (me) all the time ....... what I do, what the kids and I are doing, bragging about DS’s birthday cake, stuff that we’re doing as a family, or that he wants to do as a family. She said it’s really weird, because everyone knows what’s going on, and that he’s got his girl on the side, but he acts, and talks, like everything at home is perfect and great and he’s wonderfully happy. What????? She thinks he’s crazy.

I guess I just feel confused. Not too horrible, not even as run-down as I was. I’d like to say that I’m getting the “loving detachment” thing down, but to be honest, that’s probably only part of it. I think the other part is reacting to him being pretty decent recently. He even brought that up during our big discussion on Wednesday – how he wasn’t coming into the bedroom at night anymore, he’s knocking before he does come in if I’m in there, etc. I agreed and told him that I had noticed that and how much I appreciated it.

It’s just kind of odd right now. I’m hanging in there, and going to enjoy my vacation this weekend. We’re going out for sushi and drinks tonight, which will be fun. I’m missing pizza and movie night though.

-AmI.

nice to see your updates Ami!

I think you're getting a little foggy too. You're buying into his justifications. They don't fly.

Husband has affair.
Wife exposes affair.
Husband can't forgive wife.
UNFORGIVEABLE????
Come on, really....

You do NOT owe him an apology. Drop that.

Now, in regards to the rental house. NO NO NO NO NO.
Do you really want to be his landlord?
His sense of entitlement is unbelieveable! I bet he thinks its "his" and he won't owe you rent!
Just another way for his comfortable life to continue with YOU MAKING IT ALL HAPPEN. He will temporarily move into your rental, keeping his side action going, relying on you for financial support, domestic support, kid-rearing, etc.
When he gets tired of cake-eating, he'll still have you neatly compartmentalized in his life!

I think you need to make it clear that if he "leaves you" it will be in every sense of the word! You will separate completely -- no friendship, no sharing of property! You won't be frozen in time patiently waiting for his return.

Yuck. He is really yucky.
I think he likes Plan A.

I do not think Plan A is going to cause the end of his affair. I'm anxious for you to be ready for the next step.

Have a great weekend Ami! Pamper yourself!

AmI,

About the letters...he's reacting to what his xW also, did, isn't he? He said it was linked...now, she did that, sent the letters in an attempt to destroy his career...that's what he thinks...and she was the WS, not him, correct?

You said it perfectly...you knew he felt that way, and your intent in sending them was to SAVE your marriage, not make him lose his job--you knew they wouldn't. His perception...the way he sees it "Good to know." That's his. You know your truth...and ONLY you can know that...not him. Validate your own, too...you spoke.

WAY TO GO!!

You aren't asking for his forgiveness...you did nothing to harm him...he is having an affair...he is harming himself, you and his family...keep that straight. If he brings it up again, about your "attacking his job, his image" then say...

"I hear you believe my exposing your affair is unforgiveable...not your affair is unforgiveable, is that correct?"

YOU stay straight...don't try to put him straight.

WS's ARE crazy...pure fantasizing, 24/7...don't listen to gossip, 'k? Might confuse a lot of what you're feeling, reacting to what may or may not be true. Tell her you believe she means well, you appreciate her support, but ask her not to report what he says as a protection to you...tell her you hurt, feel confused and frustrated to hear about him at work.

I've gotta run...you're in my thoughts.

LA

Hi, AmI, I have to admit I didn't rea what's going on but I wanted to let you know how much I care for you and all the support that you have giving to me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart...you have been a blessing in my life...I have learned so much from you...YOu are so amazing, wonderful, and if I had to invision you from your personality you would be a supermodel...beautiful in all aspects...body, mind, and soul...

I won't repeat, but I wanted to let you know that the world is a beautiful place when you take it one day at a time...Take care and I wish you all the success that you can find...one way or another...

Thank you for the input on the letters.

I probably should clarify that he also thinks the A is unforgivable. That we've both hurt each other way too much, and there is no coming back from any of it.

And yes, he is also reacting to what his XW did ... which I see as totally different, though. She was accusing him of all kinds of crimes and harassment, abusing the kids, etc. She flat out told us both that she was going after his career, and no matter what she had to say or do, she'd be sure that he'd never be a cop again. He couldn't go anywhere near her or speak to her without a witness and a tape recorder -- and he still does that to this day. We went through investigation after investigation where she'd accuse him of something, and we had witnesses and tapes and other evidence to prove it wasn't true, but it would still be 6 or 8 weeks of investigations.

In his mind, the letters that I wrote are equivalent to that. I'm going after his career, just like she did.

I know I can't make him believe that it wasn't my intent. But I can understand where his hurt and rage at those letters are coming from. I guess I want to try to find a middle ground between those two things. Not apologizing for the letters, but also not just dismissing his feelings about them. Does that make sense?

I'm struggling with that concept quie a bit.


Also ... on the money thing .... I struggled with that quite a bit, too. Asking for 3/4 of the mortgage, groceries, etc. I went back and forth so much on how to do that .... so I'd take any and all opinions on this, as well. Let me give some technical details. (disclaimer .... now that I've written them, they sure sound like justifications for being masty.... I think I have some old resentment here that might be coloring my decisions?)

The amount I asked him for is about half of his monthly take-home pay, before chid support. He receives child support for the kids, not a lot, but it helps. His vehicle is paid off, because I worked incredibly hard to get it that way. This is the second truck of his that we've paid off, completely. We bought my car specifically to have room for the kids, be able to take family vacations in it comfortably, etc. -- and he won't have anything to do with the payments on it -- even though it's benefitted him and the family far more than his vehcle ever has. We have a family vehicle (mine) and then we have HIS truck. But when it comes time to pay for them, the car is mine. He has every toy he's ever wanted, all paid off (with the exception of one 4-wheeler that he bought right after d-day #2, when we were set on divorce) because I got them that way all through the years of our marriage. He came into the marriage with huge debt and credit problems, legal bills, and other issues that I worked my tail off to get fixed and paid off. I've spent seven years supporting him and the kids ... every one of my extra checks or extra money that came in went to paying off debt .... his all went to more toys for him.

He does pay for insurance for me, so that I'm double-covered -- it's about $150 a month, I think. He's double covered, under my policy, too, and I provide the insurance for the kids because my company coveres the premiums -- so it's free.

I don't think that there's anywhere in this state that he'd be able to rent a place with room for the kids and the dogs, pay all the utilities, insurance, groceries, and everything else, plus have the kids taken care of and transported around for the amount that I asked him for. I didn't feel like it was unreasonable, and I don't understand how he doesn't see the other expenses that come out of my checks. We are definitely at odds with this one.

But I can very much see the point that asking for him to cover 3/4 of the bills buys into his argument of the kids not being mine.

I think that he sees it as giving that money to me ... like I'm charging him that much in rent, and making a profit off of him as opposed to helping provide for the family. I thik he's sort of always seen the finances that way, because I mostly manage them -- make sure bills get paid on time and let him know when we have money available, etc. So I really think that he's always seen it as me taking his money, and he doesn't see where it goes, so doesn't feel like any of it benefits him.

Ugh, I feel like I've done a lot of justifying here .... so point out to me where my thinking is messed up, please?


On the rental house .... I think he's just mad that I'm not making it easy and convenient for him to set up house with his adultress. (Where does he get the idea that it should be easy to walk away from your marriage and tear apart your family -- and that I should HELP him with that????) But I think there's also a little piece of him that understands it's pretty unreasonable to think that I should do that. He said that during our discussion .... that he had put me in the position I was in with that house, and we disagree on it, but he understands where I'm coming from. But he has to project his anger about it somewhere, so now it's going to his cousin. Which makes me SO sad, because he and his cousin were practically like brothers growing up, and had such a close relationship for such a long time. I hate to see their relationship be another casualty of all this. WH needs his family so much right now .... but he and cousin are both so [email]d@mn[/email] stubborn. They both feel slighted by the other .... this will be a major falling out that will take a long time to heal, I think, if it ever does.

Anyway, I don't plan on becoming his landlord anytime soon. He wants to force the sale of the rental house (he said that right after I told him that I felt like I needed to hang on to that house as my one pice of security -- ouch), just to get cousin out of it. Just to be hateful to the cousin. I don't think he actualy wants to live there -- except that it would just make things soooo easy for him.

He says he pays for two houses (our family home and the rental -- which he doesn't pay for, their rent check pays that mortgage, and it wasn't included in the bills I asked him to help with), so he has no intention of starting to pay mortgage or rent on a third house.

I don't know if that is an excuse to stay, having his cake and eating it too .... got a nice home, someone to take care of the kids, keep things running smoothly, make sure bills are paid, dinner is cooked, etc., nothing to worry about .... but plenty of reason to b!tch about the evil witch stealing all of his money in order to fund this lifestyle .... and still be able to go out and do whoever or whatever he wants, whenever he wants. No responsibility to anyone, no consideration of anyone, just making sure that he is enjoying the moment.

Ugh ....

Ok, I can see a lot of venom coming out here.... lots of old resentment on my part, maybe? And maybe that all went into my decision to ask him for 3/4 of most of the bills instead of half.

Bring out the 2x4's and let me have it!


Other than all of this, I'm actualy feeling pretty ok. Pretty non-reactive. The weekend was really nice, but it felt SOOO good to get home and see the kids again. And even WH (is it crazy that I mised him, too, even withthe way things are?). He was pretty friendly and we had dinner and all hung out for a while. Then after the kids were in bed, he left, supposedly to go work out. This has been a trigger for me in the past, because he used to tell me he was going to work out when really he was going to see OW. But this time I didn't get all worked up and anxious about it. Figured he'd go see her if he wanted to, and there wasn't anything I could do about it. So .... off to the rabbit hole with him! And I was ok. No big bawl fest, no pacing or worrying or wondering if I should follow him to see if he was really at the office ..... nothing like that. I just said a little prayer and went to bed and fell asleep almost right away.

So maybe I'm starting to get the hang of the loving detachment thing. I didn't worry about where he was while I was in Denver -- except for one night when I was bored and TM'ed him to see if he was still up and around. He didn't respond, and I just ended up chatting with sister's boyfriend most of that night, anyway, which was nice. No anxiety about where WH might have been or what he was doing. And that feels so good to be able to let some of that go.

LA-- you were right .... half of the pain was stuff I was bringing on myself!

I have an appointment with SH in a couple of hours. This is the one that WH wouldn't do. But it's ok, I will still keep mine.

WH is going to Denver with his brother for a football game, just today. They have great seats, and will have a good time, but are making the trip in just one day -- leaving at noon, then coming home tonight after the game. So I will have the kids all to myself tonight to get caught up with them. I'm excited about that.


This got pretty long and rambling -- sorry about that. Could really use some insight on the money issue and some more about the letters.

Thanks so much for hanging in there with me. I'll update more after I talk to SH.

-AmI.

AmI,

I'm really glad you're being good to yourself...loving detachment is an act of love for yourself, too, you know.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for the money...well, I think you uncovered a lot of stuffed resentment...a whole lot, created by the AmI who didn't speak, wasn't O&H...what do you think? Are you getting the full impact of your own betrayal? Are you permitting yourself to feel a lot of what you pushed down, justified, rationalized away...that didn't really go away?

This isn't a blamefest...I think you posting about the anger, may look like blame, but it's just the first step in facing yourself and your choices...truly finding your power. So please don't shift the blame around...there isn't any to shovel anywhere. Look at your "shoulds" in your head...how marital finances "should" be to your way of thinking...and see the disparities...and why you made the choices you did.

I think this will help with realizing why you went with the 3/4 stuff...

And free yourself from some old stuff...because you're new.

You don't have to make him see the middle ground over what is unforgivable...he sees the exposure the same as attacks...it is isn't, you know it. You know it was his choice to have an A and continue that A...not your doing. His choice. You chose to live in truth...and you are prepared to forgive someday...you need to know that. Listen and repeat his statements with choice. That's respectful.

I saw you rile yourself up pretty good there, AmI...could it be you have some very real emotional work to do...after years of stuffing? Just a guess. Lemme know what you think, 'k?

I look forward to your post about SH's call...and you giving yourself permission to feel all you feel, 'k?

(((AmI)))

LA

P.S. How about that red carpet weather for you Friday & Saturday? I had it flown in, special.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Had an appointment with SH today.

Short version .... he said to continue a guarded Plan A. And to regularly bring up the mantra of what it would take to create a great marriage, that building a great marriage is in both of our interests, and in the best interests of the kids. He said to keep it up as long as I can, and that the signal for it being time to stop is when I start not caring anymore.

Longer version ....

We talked a lot about the letters. He had me read it to him. He wondered right along with me why work didn't respond. He also thought it was odd that OW didn't respond when I sent copies to her.

He said that WH is exceptionally good at compartmentalizing ... and that's why he can be so furious with me about the letters -- humiliated to even be around me, feel attacked, etc., but then flip back and forth to being caring and chatty and "friends". He also said that WH has already ramped things down to "friendship" in his mind, and that's part of why I need to keep up the mantra of learning how to have a great marriage. Keep pushing at that block a little bit .... I'm not just your friend and co-dependant here to make your life easier. I'm your wife and I have a stated goal of making our marriage fantastic.

And I will keep stating that goal over and over and over.

And when WH says he doesn't want that, then ask "Why would you not want a wonderful marriage?"

If WH says it's not possible, then "It is possible, we just don't know how, but we can find out."

Not possible to forgive -- that's another one that we just don't know how, can't envision it, or don't have the tools, but can get them.

So .... more guarded Plan A.
And enjoy the heck out of the kids for a little longer ....
Unless things get really bad or change a lot, I will touch base with SH in a month or so.

SH said that at least right now, in Plan A, there is the chance to talk sometimes, a chance to get through.

Once things get adversarial, then WH will fight just to fight, and even if something then makes sense, he'll fight it just for the sake of not agreeing.

SH said we should hold off on that as long as possible, but be fully prepared for it, too. Oh, and he said DEFINITELY don't let WH have the rental house.

So .... right now, I feel ok. Not quite as wrung out and run over as I did for a while. Not really happy at all with WH's cake-eating .... but can live with it for a little while if there's a chance to get the message through to him.

A little worried about the holidays, but that's looking way too far ahead..... I do much better when I focus on the present, what's real, right here and now.

-AmI.

I honestly think his advice is bonkers. How long are you supposed to live with the knowledge that your H is off screwing around? How much can you really take? I find that SH's advice is enabling your H to continue his A and that your marriage is never going to be given a chance as long as your H is allowed to sit on the fence while living in the same house with you.
I relize that I do not have his experience with these matters... but it just seems like common sense that this situation is not going to get any better until such a time as your H is forced to make some changes. Just an opinion...and I guess an uneducated one at that.

Hi, LA!

Wow, I've been short on time for the boards recently and was really starting to miss you! Woulda looked you up while I was over there, but there were no "Anyways" in the phone book, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The weather was beautiful, couldn't have asked for anything more perfect! It was a great weekend. And I came home to great weather over here, too .... we switched with you guys, I think!

My sister and I did the Race for the Cure on Sunday morning. I've never seen so many people at one place in my life. At one point, the crowd was snaking all the way from the street near Mile High (is that Federal?), around Mile High Stadium, up to the highway, around and up the on-ramp onto Speer and then all the way into the Pepsi Center. It was absolutely amazing to see so many people there.


"...well, I think you uncovered a lot of stuffed resentment...a whole lot, created by the AmI who didn't speak, wasn't O&H...what do you think?"

Yes, I think you're right. I think I have a lot of old resentment about finances in our M, and I think WH does, too. We have very different money-management styles, and it was rare for me to stand up to him when there were problems. I always just figured out how to make it work, instead of involving him and letting him know what was going on. Felt very parent-child, and I don't think either of us liked that at all.

We didn't really know what to do about it, though. Didn't know any other way.

Yes, I think I have a lot of stuffed-down resentment over all that. And it's a problem that I created myself. "... getting the full impact of my own betrayal" Wow, how much more accurately could you summarize that situation?


"posting about the anger, may look like blame, but it's just the first step in facing yourself and your choices...truly finding your power. So please don't shift the blame around...there isn't any to shovel anywhere. Look at your "shoulds" in your head...how marital finances "should" be to your way of thinking...and see the disparities...and why you made the choices you did.

I can definitely see how my choices played in to this, completely. I don't know what the shoulds are .... we never could figure that out, how finances "should" work in a good M. I'd just shut my mouth and CA every chance I got and manipulate things to make the money work. But debt, especially unsecured, credit-card type debt, and some money that we owe my mom ... that kind of thing just kills me. So anytime we built that up, it felt like carrying a car-sized boulder on my shoulders -- that I didn't want him to have to worry about, so I didn't mention. So he didn't worry about it, and I got resentful because not only was he not helping me with the load, and was shoveling more dirt on top of it, not knowing that the burden even existed.

Wow, guess I really need to deal with that old stuff.


"I think this will help with realizing why you went with the 3/4 stuff..."

Honestly, I think the 3/4 stuff was probably a jab. If I get really honest, I think that part of me was thinking "you worked so hard to remind me that those kids weren't mine, and to try to prove that I'm nothing but a babysitter ... well, that knife cuts both ways."

That plus all the old stuff .... that I will try to let go.

From a practical hands-on standpoint, can you help me figure out a better way to do it? WH brings home at least $500 a month more than I do, plus he gets child support. I feel like he should be carrying a larger part of the burden, that just dividing everything in half is not really fair? Is that just more of the old resentment coming through, do you think?


You don't have to make him see the middle ground over what is unforgivable...he sees the exposure the same as attacks...it is isn't, you know it. You know it was his choice to have an A and continue that A...not your doing. His choice. You chose to live in truth...and you are prepared to forgive someday...you need to know that. Listen and repeat his statements with choice. That's respectful.

This makes sense and helps, thank you. I think what I'm worried about here isn't so much about making him see the middle ground. I don't think he's ever going to belive that my intent behind the letters was not to go after his career. And I'm ok with that, knowing that his perception there will always be different than mine.

I'm just a little leery, I guess, of starting to feel like I'm totally justified no matter what I do, and he's not, no matter what. Like I can do no wrong, becasue I'm the BS, and he can not ever be right, because he's the WS. Sometimes I worry that I'm falling in to that trap, disregarding his feelings and thoughts and reality because they can't possibly be right ... since WS's are never right. I think that would be underestimating him, and realy disrespectful.

This is just the issue that brought it up for me .... lets me illustrate it for myself .... but it's been something I'm concerned about.


could it be you have some very real emotional work to do...after years of stuffing?

Yes!!! I'm a professional stuffer. Have been doing it since I was tiny. So what do I do about it? Where do I start this emotional work?


I think I need to find a good IC.....


-AmI.