Really, AmI, you've been holding all this anger and hurt and rage and feeling of betrayal inside, while he's been a complete jerk to you. I'm surprised you didn't crack before. You are only a human, after all. And because it is out of character for you, your WH now has a glimpse of how angry and hurt you are and how close it is to all blowing up in his face. He needed a wake-up call and you needed a release. You needed to get some of this off your chest. It's too much to expect of anyone to follow some plan like a robot.

I hope that this was the big event -- the big climax that you both needed to get something moving in a different direction. And you know, maybe your WH needed you to get seriously enraged for some reason, so that he could feel that you really cared. People are weird. Who knows.

Make the best of this. You truly needed to let off some of the pressure. And you sure did!

I'm still proud of you. If you guys recover from all this, you may even look back some day and laugh about this.

AmI, don't feel bad. Plan A and Plan B and are all well and good, but you know, some people just don't get it without a walloping dose of "Plan F-U" once in a while.

At least he knows for a fact that you are not a doormat and you will not take his crap and that you will never, ever be okay with his cake-eating and fence-sitting. In a weird way, he may even be flattered that you got so extremely upset over the idea of losing him and were willing to fight so hard to save the relationship.

Just beware of the honeymoon phase. Don't let him butter you up and make you think things are better know that the air is clear. Hold your hard-won ground and don't give an inch until you see some concrete Actions from him.

So, don't worry about it. Don't do this every day, but don't feel bad about letting the WH see the real depths of the misery he is causing, either.
Mulan

Ami:

I'm am soooo feeling your pain today.

I cracked like you said you did..more than once...

I actually tried to physically attack my H..we fought...

There's only so much HURT that a HUMAN BEING can take...

Looking back, I don't see how in the world that I was able to make it without hurting myself, my H or the OW..

I thank God that I never came face to face with her during the A..

My H says that she was AFRAID of me..she was probably lying ..but for good reason....

But as GROWNUP said, you can get past this. We don't LAUGH about those TRAGIC TIMES but they are in the PAST and we are trying our very best to make up for LOST TIME....



I sit here with tears in my eyes, Ami...because I HAVE BEEN THERE to that DARK, DARK PLACE...

You are not alone in this...

Hugs to you....

Actually it is PLAN A, Ami..

You are evidencing the intensity of your love for your H...

He appreciates your PASSION for him...

You are not apathetic because you love him...

He knows this for sure now....

He will recall this time in the DARK, MIDNIGHT HOURS of PLAN B..if it comes to that...

I don't know about anyone else out there, but this scenario has played out in my head almost every day since D Day. Try not to be so hard on yourself...we've probably all been there or done that in some way shape or form. I hope it at least brought you some relief!

Ha ha ha, Plan F-U, good one Mulan.......and truly overdue in this case, Am I, imvho.

I have been following your thread and really feel for you. You are truly wonderful in how you've handled this. I am rooting for you and your HUSBAND, and along with MEDC, wish to kick your WH somewhere where it really wouldn't be nice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I agree, now your WH KNOWS you love him and want him- the H not the WH. And I think, as a FWW myself, that it's very very telling that he didn't just leave and go to OW and say screw you. He would have if he truly didn't want it to work with your marriage...somewhere in his fogged-out little mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Do you not even feel that it was a little......I don't know....emotionally clensing? Do you really feel that you did some damage or that finally you were able to get out some feelings???? I mean, honestly, what that HO did deserved a LOT MORE mess, really <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. YOu were admirably restrained......

I'd like to second Mrs. Rob's comment on Plan F-U...LMAO

(((((((AmI))))))))

:::with [censored] eating grin on face:::

MY GIRL! MY DAWG! About Time don't you think? You are SOOO normal...YOU ARE DOING A WONDERFUL JOB! I understand that you feel horrible for losing control...I did too!

Don't you remember me beating the crap out of WH and him surprising me by taking me shopping a few hours later...LMAO
I was on my way to HO's house to give her a piece of my foot, sort to speak. And if I see her out...I just night still do it! LMAO

Oh, I wish I could put my arms around you and hug you soo tight!

Smile...not doormat in that display of emotions! LMAO

Loving you in watching you grow...You are doing great! Like LA says...IN your corner all the way!

AmI... I am so darn proud of you. You stood your ground... albeit in a way that you would like to not repeat. But I think you might have taken a very good step here. Plan FU (LMAO) has its place and in your situation... it was about time. You have taken too much already. Love is an action... you showed that through all of this. It's time for your H to do the same. Remember, he invited this in your lives. It is up to him to make his choices now.
Don't be hard on yourself. Be proud that you have enough fight in you to find the strength to even respond at this point. I am proud of you and I truly hope that your H makes the right decision at this point.
You are a remarkable woman.

What HE said times about a million and one!

- Kimmy

I agree with this wholeheartedly. If he really wanted to leave, here was his chance.

Way to go AmI, this hopefully was the push you both needed to move you in a new direction together.

Wow .... thank you all, SO much!! I'm so touched! I can't even tell you all how much these responses mean to me. I was really expecting to hear what a blow this would be and how to try to do damage control. You've all given me a little bit of hope! Thank you!


"Plan F-U" ..... that had me rolling! Wonder what Dr. H would say about that .... ?


I suppose that the screaming match (not really a match, just me screaming my idiot head off) might have been a little cleansing, but really, most of it was outright cruel, hateful, toxic venom spit out just for the sake of being hateful. That's the part that I'm really ashamed of. It's not me.

I sort of apologized for that part, and think that he sort of forgave me for some of it when we were talking afterwards (the fighting probably lasted about 45 minutes) .... he said that wasn't like me, or us, at all, and that this was just such a volatile situation that it probably had to go off at some point.

Really, it was the the discussion afterwards that made the most impact, to me. That was the most cleansing and real and meaningful. I saw SOOOO much of my real H during that. The one that I know and that I don't want to do battle with, and that I still believe in and want back SO badly.

It's very hard to not get my hopes up around that.


Anyway, I went home for lunch today, and he was still home. So we hung out and talked for a while; not about anything serious, just chatting and having fun. We even managed to joke a little bit about some of the drama and puffery from yesterday.

He also said he'd talk to Steve with me if I could get an appointment this week before hunting season (Friday). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> So I got an appointment for Thursday for both of us.

One of the things I told him yesterday was that it's like falling off of a cliff .... I'd get my hopes up and think we could make it and believe that it was possible, and climb up that mountain, only to fall off the cliff and be pulverized at the bottom of the canyon. I said that maybe it was my fault, for climbing up that mountain over and over again. He (rhetorically) asked if I was falling off the cliff or being pushed.

I'm really, really trying to not set myself up for another canyon drop. But seeing so much of my real H, and hearing him talk about the possibility of reconciliation yesterday, and then talking today about real life and getting along and having a real, fun conversation, plus him agreeing to talk to Steve .....

It's pretty hard to stay away from the mountain, and the cliff.

-AmI.

Hurray AmI!

Lord, do I hear you girl! I know exactly what you mean about setting yourself up...our sitch's are so similiar...

I think that you handle the situation great considering everything you've been through. Perhaps that is exactly what was needed. Perhaps he needed to see that side of you...I can tell you this when I went off on my WH he'd never seen that side of me either...LOL...in all of our 13 years...being the classic CA I am...

Well baby...it's a new day and age...LMAO...a new AmI has emerged from her cocoon! I'm so proud of you! You're well on your way! Keep up the AWESOME work...

IMO, this is all PLAN A...

This is another GREAT EXAMPLE of the importance of gaining your WH'S RESPECT!!

STAY STRONG, AmI!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

AmI...

I'm dittoing MrsRob and InaDaze...and it reminded me of my blow outs (two of them) very much like yours.

Where my WH stormed upstairs and slammed his door.

And then he came back down.

I was sobbing and said, "I don't want to be like that. That's not me."

And we talked it through some more.

He came back down. He continued talking.

There is grace in even the heaviest turmoil...and love lasts. I promise. Fantasy doesn't.

A toxic wasteland, and you described it marvelously...though I would add to mine, incredibly dramatic. That was the night I realized that I didn't just want my WH to KNOW my pain and acknowledge it...I wanted him to FEEL it. Good to know.

Please don't kick yourself unconscious inside...and know that stating your stuff doesn't build up your stuff...AmIaVolcano...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

And you know you can survive a thousand falls to the bottom of the canyon...because you do and you have, and you may hate the feeling, but it's yours...you're not crazy or wrong. You're up to your neck in unknown...you're living a great fear...and you're living it.

LA

Ami,

U realize the A made you do this, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Don't browbeat yourself. What you went through saved a life and stabbed another. You saw your H and less of the WS. That's a good thing. ok? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now go have your meeting with Steve and NO MORE apologizing. The WS needs to be running with it's tail between it's legs. Your H needs to show himself more and you need to learn NOT to tolerate any A like attitude.

ok? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

I agree with Orchid - no more apologizing!

You're doing fine - there's a book called "Let's Get Real or Let's Not Play" by Mahan Khalsa - it's written for sales people. There's a concept he teaches about not running yellow lights. Well - your husband has been running yellow lights in this relationship that he still cares a great deal about or he would have reacted differently to Krakatoa's eruption.

Managing expectations will help you a lot right now. Don't expect ANYTHING. Just be glad that you have SH on your marriage recovery team!

Last night was really nice. We were working on getting hunting and camping stuff ready and cleaned and packed. It was fun and felt really good to be a team again. We haven't done that in a long time.

About 10:30, I started to fade and told him I was going to take a shower and go to bed. He said he had to run to the office and pick up all the stuff he'd left there, and then might hit the grocery store to start on some of the shopping for the trip. He was back less than 30 minutes after he left, and all on his own gave me a full accounting, who he'd seen, who he'd talked to .... that he didn't go to the store because he hadn't said that he definitely would.... it was so different.

Then he asked if I'd mind if he got in the shower since I was still up. (????)

And then he hung out in there with me for a while watching TV and just talking.

Then he said he was going to bed, and good night .... did I want the bedroom door open or closed.


My head was spinning. Still is.

Doesn't this all seem very sudden and fast?

Is this really possible, or am I just getting too carried away? Setting myself up for another spectacular cliff-dive?

AmI,

This is great news, you are seeing more and more of your real H but don't get your hopes up too much. Remain guarded. This is definately a turning point for your H to see that reconciliation is possible. The WH is not gone so just be prepared for him to poke his head out. The more and more you see your H swing back and forth from real H to WH you will be more capable of separating the two and treating the two very differently.

This rollercoaster is far from over but real H is definately making strides toward the light.

Mimi, LA, Daze, Orchid and others here who are recovered / recovering ....

I SO appreciated the input about what some of you have gone through in your recoveries. It was kind of relieving to hear that other people have exploded and still made it.

One of the things WH and I talked about on Sunday was the possibility of real recovery. He said he didn't see how it could be possible for me to trust him again, because he's already stomped on that so many times already.

I would like to know if it really is at all possible? Do you honestly, really trust your FWS now? I don't want to spend the rest of my life checking up on him. Wondering if he's really where he says he is, or if his excuse for being late is legit or not.

Those of you who have recovered .... do you still have those nagging questions in the back of your mind? I have a huge fear of repeating this whole thing again in a year or 5. Do you still worry about that?

You know, I always believed my H hung the moon .... was 10 feet-tall and bullet-proof, and absolutely incapable of dishonesty. I believed he was MADE of integrity and honor and commitment, and had so much admiration for him. Do you ever get that back? Do you HONESTLY trust the FWS not to flirt or get too friendly with someone else (or the OP) again? And how do you know if it's happening?

Now that I think about it, I'm going to post this question to the biger board, too, but would still like to hear from all of you, too, please!

Thank you.

-AmI.

This is real H fighting with himself to see which road he is going to take. The seemingly easy route (divorce, OW, etc) or the harder route (reconciliation, coming to terms with what has happened, accepting responsibility, going over details of the A, etc.) Real H knows it's possible but he's not sure if he wants to do all of the work it's going to take to get there.

They want to hear that you are going to accept them back into the M with open arms and none of the yucky stuff of rebuilding. I just kept stating to my FWH that yes it is possible but it is going to take work to get there.

He still tries to throw in the line about "I'm not going to live like this" when I bring up the A. I again state that this is what I need to help me move on, I need him to help me by being open and honest.



I'm pretty fresh into this so I can't really answer for the long term. I agree with techie on your other thread you started that this is all dependent on your H. The more open and honest he is with you, the more accountable he is, the more loving, etc the more safe and secure you will feel.

I hardly check up on my FWH. I do it very sporadically and usually only if I get a nagging feeling. But I watch his behaviors. Things that were huge signs before that I pushed aside or allowed him to downplay are warning signs to me now. I watch for them. For instance, being very guarded of his cell phone. He doesn't do this now, he leaves it in the open, he lets me answer it, he doesn't keep it on vibrate, etc. If he starts to do any of those then it will prompt me to check it.

I have realized that I REALLY CAN trust my intuition. Something I never did before. If something doesn't seem right to me anymore I will check into it now instead of ignoring it.

I don't feel that I am going to have to live my life checking up on my FWH. For the most part I already have gained back some trust for him based on his actions since reconciliation.

That first month going into recovery I was exactly where you are in your thinking. Am I ever going to trust this man. He didn't seem remorseful, still blamed the A on me, acted like he was going to go and do things without me and F me if I wasn't ok with that. Didn't think he should have to tell me if he had contact with OW due to work, etc. But in the past 2 months things have totally turned around. He just recently told someone that he couldn't go out without me b/c he is on a short leash due to his actions this past year. I have never told him he couldn't go out. I have been wondering when it would come up and what I would do at that time. I never would have guessed that he already decided that he should not go out without me b/c he knows it would make me uncomfortable and nervous. I was blown away.

Once they start doing those things, you will see that you really can start to feel safe again. However, just as Harley states, you should never trust your spouse 100%.


Being new into this, I ofcourse worry about it. I just try to remind myself that I can't live in fear about what might happen. I can implement everything I have learned here about having a good marriage and building safeguards against A's. I can be the best wife I can be and continue to plan A my H for the rest of our lives but I can't stop him from making bad decisions.

When I start to wonder if those nagging thoughts/feelings will ever go away, I think about Sept. 11th. Think about when it happened and how raw your emotions were, how you just couldn't grasp how it could happen. You went through all of the same emotions, shock, disbelief, anger, fear, etc. Then slowly the thoughts and the emotions start to level out and you aren't thinking about it every minute or every day. Now something might trigger you here and there but only for the moment. Eventually it becomes a part of the past that has made you stronger, more knowledgeable, more empathetic to others, it becomes a part of your history that you build on.



I think that you have to get to a point where you can say that your H made some bad choices, this doesn't necessarily define his character. I truly believe all of us are capable of having an A, it's just whether or not we know how to protect our weaknesses.