AmI,

What's your WH saying about NC? Is he willing to stop seeing the OW? He told SH that he refused to give her up, so wondering what he's decided now. Is he willing to send the NC letter if he's said he'll quit seeing her?

Hi, GrownUp.

We haven't talked about it in a lot of detail yet. We haven't even really decided that we want to try to recover yet. (Hence my question about the possibility of recovery).

No commitments on anything just yet from either of us -- including NC, or even giving her up.

So far, he's been startlingly transparent and accountable for his time. I know he hasn't actually physically been around her, but don't know if they've talked on the phone. I imagine she's tried to get ahold of him, but I wonder if she thinks I still have his phone? There are other ways she can reach him if she wants to (and vice-versa, for that matter).

I had been planning on waiting to talk to him about her and the NC letter with SH. Do you think I should do that earlier, instead?


As an OT aside ..... I was thinking about who to list when I was asking about recovered folks ..... and I realized I had no idea if you are in that category or not. Not that it matters, I think you've been wonderful and I appreciate you very much -- regardless of your M status. I just feel a little disappointed that I've never thought enough to ask about your story. And I couldn't find a thread for you, so I'm pulling my self-absorbed little nosy head out of my own business for a minute and sticking it in yours. Care to share?

(Unless you are a secret SH agent ... don't tell me if you'd have to kill me for it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

-AmI.

I've kept my own story pretty quiet. There was a sort of an EA on my H's part. Our overall problems were much greater. After a long and close marriage, we completely derailed, catching everyone we knew completely off guard. I was completely disoriented from it and I felt helpless and to try to fix it, since everything made it worse. My SIL told me, while she was visiting us and got to see the train-wreck of our marriage up close and personal -- that the family had worried about what to do with the survivor when the other one of us died. So, to see us in full-blown withdrawal, punctuated with short bursts of anger and constant resentment shocked our family. The EA happened while we were in this state. The reason why I ended up on MB on GQII, is not only from my problem dealing with the EA, but because our other, more serious issues seemed to have affected us similarly to the feelings of betrayal from adultery. My H told me that one time, during one of our horribly painful and unproductive talks/fights.

I ended up following a revised type of Plan A and though it's taken a couple of years and a bunch of relapses, I *think* we're in a permanent recovery. I had a huge relapse a couple of weeks ago when we were all on the webcam with my family and *she* walked in. I just went silent until everyone said goodbye and then had a horrible meltdown. So, guess I'm not completely over it yet, even though I'm not sure how much was really EA and how much I've embellished in my mind. My H claims it was never more than a short infatuation because she was around and we were going through a hellish time.

Anyway, that's our story. I'm not a true survivor of an affair. But, we've gone through a process from some serious problems and a huge marital breakdown that are very similar to what you've all gone through. Unlike you, I was not well behaved all the time. I was resentful and hateful. And I truly thought we'd never pull out of it and love each other again -- that I'd never trust that he loved me again, that I'd never really relax. But, I have and I finally feel calm. I made this conscious decision to love him without reserve, regardless of whether I believed he loved me back. And I felt free and everything changed for me. This was recent - like within the last few months. And he responded and either he changed or I saw him differently because I did. Either way, our old relationship seems to be pretty much back and even better in some ways.

I've had a gut feeling that you two could recover all along -- as have others here. But, he's going to have to step up to the plate and act like a grownup, instead of being so defeatist, so entitled and such a baby. And really, with us -- and we had destroyed our relationship -- it was really a matter of just doing it and stopping the nonsense. We had to stop being self-absorbed in our our grievances and our own pain and we had to be kind to each other, disengage in the sniping and just get on it. It felt like faking for a long time, but like everyone says, eventaully it starts to feel normal again. But, he has to get that woman out of your lives or you stand no chance at all. He OWES you a real chance. He owes the kids a real chance. I think if he can just get over this initial reluctance to even try, that he can do this.

Had an appontment with SH today. WH and I both.

The first half hour, we were both on the phone -- a 3-way conference call. Each of us at our own offices.

Told SH about my explosion, and our conversation afterwards. Talked about WH's actions since then. SH said they are very thoughtful, and to think of trying to find ways to be thoughtful of each other. We talked about how the last few days have been, that we both feel like we are friendly and laughing and happy and a team again.

SH said that the first thing he would have "prescribed" is what's already going on -- keeping me informed and checking in with me, being as open as possible, etc. Both of us finding ways to be thoughtful to each other.


SH asked about what we wanted .... WH said he wants his wife and his best friend to be the same person again. He said he didn't know if that was possible. He wanted to know the steps and specifically how to do it. SH said "that's where I come in".

SH asked what had changed, because three weeks ago, WH and I were both in a very different place. WH said that he had realized that he had made incredibly selfish decisions, that he doesn't want to hurt me anymore, and doesn't want to hurt the kids. That the kids adore me, and if just that is the only reason, then it's a good enough reason for him. That he couldn't continue to hurt me or the kids. And that he knows that means that OW has to go.

So that got us into the subject of OW .... and here is where there is a HUGE fly in the ointment.

SH asked about contact with OW, and if we had any agreements related to her. I said we didn't have any spoken agreements, that I didn't believe that he'd actually physically come in contact with her, (and WH said "Nope), but didn't know if he'd talked to her (and WH said "Yep".)

WH said he talks to OW by phone about once a day. That she is a major player in the IA investigation against him, and that he is very worried about ticking her off and having "another scorned woman" around until the IA is cleared. That if he pisses her off right now, then she could easily start telling the investigators that they did do things when he was on-duty (that's the only thing they are investigating), or a lot of other things that could get him in trouble. And he is very worried that she would do that if he "pisses her off".

SH asked what I thought of that, and we discussed it a little bit. WH said he absolutely knew that the contact had to completely end, and that's what his intent was, as soon as the IA is cleared. SH said he thought that I should be able to live with that as long as WH was open and honest and transparent about it. Then he asked if I thought that I could live with that for right now. I said I wasn't sure, that it felt pretty threatening.... but maybe if I could see that I could count on WH to be totally forthcoming and honest about it, then maybe.... but I didn't like it.

SH said that was pretty fair .... WH said that he would be. Guess we'll have to see on this. I REALLY don't like this at all.


Then SH said he wanted to talk to us separately. He talked to WH first then called me later.

I told him that I am very fearful of of WH's motives here. That I wonder if he's just trying to play nice until he can get what he wants -- get past the IA, pull enough money out of the accounts to get out .... or whatever ... That I was very worried about turning around and going through this all over again in 6 months, a year, six years .... etc.

He said Does that fit in with who WH is, how he operates? I said, well, I never would have thought so before all of this, but now .... who knows? SH said that he thinks that it would be totally out of character -- even WH's "W" character, for this to be a ruse. That he really felt WH was being genuine.

Then he said "and what if it is a ruse?" He said to think of it as an exercise program -- that you can't fake an exercise program. That he'd be giving us exercises that would force us to connect, and it would be obvious to see if WH was doing them or not. And if he's doing them, then we'll be able to connect.

He also said that he thinks that once WH makes up his mind about something, he is very single-minded about it and is going to do it. And that he thinks WH has made up his mind on recovery, even if it's just in the best interest of the kids. I agreed that WH was definitely that way, and SH and I talked about how prior to this, that was working against me -- because WH had decided that it was over.


Going forward, our goal is to develop an emotionally intimate relationship. And to know that the future can be much different than, and better than, the past.

He said I need to take it one day at a time, remember there is still a huge element of the unknown.

My assignments this week are:

EN and LB questionnaires
Avoid LB's (no more screaming tantrums! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )
Thank WH when he does the thoughtful things, being careful not to overdo it, and to do it in a way that acknowledges he's manly (& not whipped).


SO ...... Guess I've got some home work to do.


Thoughts? My head is spinning..... is there a way to be guarded and hopeful at the same time???


-AmI.

All I can say is WOW! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Take it one day at a time. I wish I had more to say but I know alot more better versed MB'er will be along.

Just wondering if you asked SH about Plan F-U?????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How long will this IA last???

I am so rooting for (and praying for) you and your soon-to be- FWH!!!

AmI,

I know this is tough...I believe it is doable. It was for me.

See, OW worked with my WH...and if she filed a complaint, they both would lose their jobs...she was looking for another job, anyway...so, WH was of the same frame of mind your WH is...to make waves was to add more consequences...well, he still saw her, worked with her, three days a week...which was really hard for me...however...what I didn't know was that he was being sincere (couldn't know, right?) until the transfer came through and he changed stores...far away...and then, day after day, no contact built into never again...through today.

You won't know until you get there...others have been in this situation where there was still contact...and yes, I was melting down by the time it came...still, I did it. I know you're strong and focused and can do this.

This isn't cut and dried stuff...you have to choose to believe in somebody, why not SH?

If you choose to believe MB principals work...you can fall back in love, recovery your marriage, your trust, your life...and thrive...I think that's a great choice...and if it doesn't work in the end...what have you gained? Another six days, six months, six years for your kids to have an intact home, a hero for a mother and whole lot of personal growth packed in there.

I believe in you, AmI.

LA

lol .... no, I forgot to ask him if "Plan F-U" was a standard option ....

Seems to have worked in this case!


The IA should be over any day now. It's been six weeks already .... and I think they initially said they'd try to have it done in 4. WH told me a few weeks ago what the max time limit was, but now I can't remember what it was .... maybe 90 days? That would be worst-case scenario. I don't think I will be able to hold up with continued contact with her that much longer.....


And now that I've had more time to think about this .....

Here's something that's bothering me.

I kind of let myself believe what I wanted to about the type of contact they are having ... that it was "just friendly" .....

But now that I think about it some more, (DJ alert) I think WH was really saying that he is stringing her along .... letting her believe that they still have their "thing" .... so as not to tick her off (read: break up with her) before the IA is complete.


THAT makes my skin crawl. How do I know he's not doing the same to me???? And I already knew my WH was capable of being deceptive, but this is a whole new level of deception.

Now, I could care less if OW gets hurt .... probably a callous way to look at it, but it's true. Heck, I might even cheer a little in my head if she did.


But realizing that WH is capable of doing that .... that takes me a whole 'nother step backwards.......


-AmI.

"I believe it is doable. It was for me."

Wow ... thank you. That entirely struck a chord for me .... I want so badly to believe that this might be possible, but just couldn't imagine it happening at all while he still has contact. I'm trying to look for some good here, so thank you for helping me see a little glimmer of it.


"...you have to choose to believe in somebody, why not SH?"

VERY good point. He has been great so far .... and at least it's all out in the open.... it's just scary.

Maybe I need to focus on the baby-steps that we ARE making....


"I believe in you, AmI."

Can't even begin to tell you how much that means to me!!


-AmI.

I think Steve Harley is WONDERFUL, a MIRACLE WORKER and A GENIUS!!!

AmI, your WH sounds ALOT like mine...

Steve counseled us similarly...

Now I sit here..over 3 years into Recovery..and we couldn't be HAPPIER..Like you said earlier about your H, I now think that my H "HUNG THE MOON"...

I see him as having gone off on a LONG ALIEN VOYAGE for awhile..during his A....and now he has returned...

You both are in my prayers...

There's lots of work ahead but I see you as another SUCCESS STORY!!!!

The continued contact is upsetting. Is he going to flirt and act like he's going to be having sex with her again to "string her along?" The type of personality that I have, I'd have to have more information about this before I could fully give my all my all to rebuilding the marriage. I'd have to know why he got involved with her in the first place, why he kept going back to her and why he's willing to stop seeing her, if he still has feelings for her, etc, etc. Otherwise, you just have to trust his word and his honor, when he hasn't shown much of.

If she were totally out of the picture and he were totally committed to not seeing her, then I could see that it's worth your while to give this a chance -- to determine if he can be a decent enough husband to put any effort from you into it. But, I'd sure have an exit strategy in place until he proved that he was trustworthy and truly committed.

If you have to continue to be guarded, which you have to be as long as he's in contact, then I don't know how you can really begin a whole-hearted recovery. You'll have to try to go through the motions and be kind to each other and do the questionnaires or whatever, but how can you possibly feel like you're working on your marriage when he's having that type of contact with her? I guess you'll have to be in a holding pattern until he ends it with her.

I know there's no easy solution right now with this investigation going on. Can she threaten to turn him in and reopen it after it's closed? Is this something to be held over his head forever? And is he hiding the fact that he was acting inappropriately on the job? If he were, maybe he needs to face the consequences for his actions and figure out why he behaved that way.

Sorry, AmI. It sounds so good in some ways, and so bad yet in others. You really are stuck going with your gut right now, about whether you think he's serious about reconciliation. If you feel that SH is right about this, it's definitely worth hanging around a bit longer if you can bear it. And while you're in this limbo, you might as well work on rebuilding your relationship. I guess it's not really any different than Plan A, while the affair is still going on -- in fact better in many ways, since he's in MB counseling. So, there's many pluses to counter this giant negative. I just hope it's out of the picture soon, so you can both give this a real effort.

I hope you have a good weekend together.

Hi AMI,

I've been keeping up w/ your thread, but haven't posted yet. I am a HUGE fan of yours. And, I see that I am just one of many. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I just want to say that it is my impression that he is telling you the truth now. The thing that seemed to bug him the most was the chance that he might lose his job over this. Something must have clicked for him the other night when you used the FU plan on him. Something must have made him realize that you REALLY did love him. That you REALLY weren't trying to ruin his career.

It is my belief that she wasn't ever THAT important to him. He may have been stringing her along for a while...w/o either one of you knowing it.

So happy for you!

~ Marsh

Ami... I hope you are feeling a bit better. This seems like fairly good news at this time. I would be cautiously optimistic if I were in your shoes.
Your blow up had the results that I expected. I sense that your H respects strength and needed a kick in the pants. While I don't want to see you ever get that upset again... know that the power of plan FU allowed you to shake him "awake." As much as plan A & B have worked for most on this site... you needed to be able to get the attetion of your H in order for him to realize how deeply your were hurting. You did a great job and I am proud of you. Stay the course for now... but be prepared to right the ship again should the need arise. You are doing a fantastic job sis.
MEDC

one other note... I am very familiar with the IA process. While your H's concerns are valid, he should be upfront and not count on this woman to hide anything that might have happened. If he did not have sex while on duty he has truth on his side and should end all contact with her instead of acting nice to her so she doesn't escalate the proceedings. If he did have sex while on duty, he should come clean to his deligate and get his advice. Either way, he needs to be honest and allow the trith to guide the IA process.

Good Morning! I was just checking in...I've read about the appt.

I can see your concerns...IMO, it's really a waste of energy focusing on things like that...it's filling your mind with negative thoughts...things that you don't know...would you consider this a fear of the unknown? The reason I ask is b/c I'm very familiar with this kind of thing...LOL

Keep your focus on what you know...try not to saboage yourself...I did by believing there was NC, that he was straightening up...I wouldn't check...I wanted to believe...stick to what you know...just the facts...

You are doing so much better than I am, IMO...or perhaps we had swapped places...LOL

AmI,

Whiplash, huh? But your HAIR looks great!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Your very own pain-in-the-neck,

LA

I have read this thread religiously everyday waiting to hear this news. I knew it was going to happen from your very first post. Your WH is too similar to mine. Especially since they are both cops. Cops really think in a whole different kind of logic.

That does suck about the ruse he has to keep up with her, but I think you will be able to tell if he is being genuine. IA's do have a time limit which is good, I know we have a very strict timeline in our police department that HAS to be adhered to. Can't remember exactly how long it is. I don't think it's 90 days here.

My FWH does have the chance of occasional work contact with OW b/c she is a child proctective worker (too bad she didn't protect my children!) but it worries me less and less each day. Since he told her what they had was wrong and he would never be with her even if we divorced she tries to stay away from here as much as possible. I also work here so it makes her a leetle uncomfortable to show her face here(aaaahhhh poor baby).

Anyway, the part about him just trying for the kids, my FWH said that too and he has recently admitted that it wasn't true he just wasn't ready to put himself out there right at the beginning.

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so excited and happy for you AmI. I know you can't let your guard down yet, but this is really a huge step forward.

By the way, when is the hunting trip????

Ugh .... I had this long post typed out, with responses to everyone and everything and then I stupidly lost it.

Very short version, becasue I have to run .... HUGE thank-you's to everyone!! I don't know what I'd do without this place!!

Yes, I'm still very concerned about the continued contact. The "stringing her along" language and assumption is all mine (shhh, don't tell LA!). That's not what he actually said, just what I jumped to a few hours later. So I'm going to ask him about it -- no more keeping quiet for AmI! (It's ok to tell LA that part! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

The IA should be finished any minute. It's already been six weeks. I would think that they already have to have her statements, so that it would not look right if she went back and changed them now. However, WH is very concerned that she would do exactly that. I don't know enough about her to know if that's likely or not. He is adamant that they didn't have sex while he was on duty -- just conversation and flirting. And I believe him about that. I don't think that flirting is even acceptable, but it wouldn't be against any policy. And that appears to be all they care about right now.

SH had asked WH "what if she does change her story and start telling lies, wouldn't it be he-said, she-said, and wouldn't they take your word over hers?" WH said that prior to this situation, his reputation for absolute honesty and integrity would never be questioned. But now his own actions have cast a very dark cloud over his integrity, and he's not sure that they would believe him over her.

He isn't asking her to lie, he's worried that she will make something up if he "ticks her off."


I had a lot more to say, but I've run out of time! DS and WH left this morning for hunting camp (DS didn't have school today). DD and I will go up tomorrow after her basketball game. I'm looking forward to the weekend, but the next 12 hours or so are jam packed. It's our small group game night, and there's all kinds of stuff I haven't gotten done yet, like cooking (didn't get the chili or the stew made yet, so I need to do that tonight so we can bring them up with us tomorrow), packing for DD and I, getting all the last-minute things that the guys forgot, and all the other little things that have to be done before we're ready to go. And I guess I probably ought to fit some sleep in there sometime, too.


Thank you all so much for ALLLLL the wisdom and support and everything ..... I wish I could tell you all how much it means to me. You've helped me get through some very, very dark times that I couldn't have gotten through without you!


-AmI.

Have fun on your hunting trip I will be looking forward to hearing all about it when you return.

This weekend may be just what the dr. ordered.

FUN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> FUN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> FUN <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

HI, AmI...

I hope that you enjoyed your weekend...can't wait to hear how things are going...

I'm praying for you...you're in my thoughts...

I can give you my address if you would like to share the kill...LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hope that you have a great day!

Oh, Steve Harley is a smart man, too!

What a pro! His question to your WH...wow...and your WH's response, too.

Okay...all those DJs and unDJs...did you speak, AmI? Didya?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In the end, FWH's OW didn't do anything, either. Didn't file a complaint, quit or move up or down in managment. My DH's fear was greater than OW's actions. He's still getting a handle on how his fear motivates and restricts his life, its use in fantasy and how it protects and harms him.

Help me, AmI be clear here...once IA is finished (case closed), will WH send a no contact letter?

Hope your weekend was marvelous...mine was...didn't MB at all...whoa...had great family time. You were in my prayers...each day...and I saw some tape last night of the Race for the Cure walkers and looked for you.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA