Ami... I am happy that things are progressing for you both. One thing that I am confused about and makes NO sense to me whatsoever. What is this ho's role in the IA process? Is she an employee of the department? Has she given a statement already?
The reason I ask is that if she has already given her statement there is NO reason for your H to have any contact with her.
I don't want you put in a position where your H is using the IA process to his advantage. I also think that you could ask him to check and see where this investigation is at. I think his deligate certainly would be able to get a handle on the status of the investigation.
You are right to be hurt by the continued contact. Extraordinary precautions are not in place and frankly I am more than a little surprised at Harley's advice to let this play out this way.

I think LA's post is very valuable and makes a lot of important points. The only thing I take issue with is this...
"If you can have a better marriage than you imagined in your lifetime...heal all your inner wounds and thrive...would you?"

I just don't think that any of the BS's here need look at their M as being the stuff of dreams. A marriage better than I could ever imagine would NEVER include adultery. It would value what it had before that kind of crap was visited upon it. That's not to say you cannot have a great marriage... just that every marriage that has suffered through an A is forever scarred by that experience. We can learn to live with the scar... but it remains as a reminder of a hurt visited upon our life. JMHO.

I think you are doing a great job... keep up your ability to set limits. It is what finally got you to this place where healing is more than just a wish and hope. You are the strong one in your M.
MEDC

WH got called in to court yesterday , so missed most of the meeting with SH. I conferenced him in when he got done, but it was only for the last 10 minutes or so.


Anyway .... here's the recap.


SH asked how things had been going, and I filled him in. He asked about contact with OW, and I told him what WH had told me about his contact with her. And SH said "and you're ok with that?" And I said absolutely not. I hate it.

So we talked a little about why WH felt like he had to maintain the relationship with her, etc. So SH said that if we were going to have to live with this until the investigation was over, then WH needed to discuss with me BEFORE he contacts her, and we have an agreement, or a game plan, on what the conversation would be. WH wasn't on the phone during this, so it wasn't useful to go into too much more detail on that point without him.

SH asked how I was feeling. I told him "suspicious". I said I wasn't sure if WH was just stringing me along and trying to get me to play nice until the IA was over, or what. That I didn't trust his motives. SH said "how are you going to know?"

When I said I don't know, SH gave me the exercise program analogy again. Said that WH's attitude is not as important as his actions. That you might grumble and whine and be unhappy about doing situps, but if you do them, then they will have an effect. That taking action will eventually change the attitude. And that you can see the actions, but you can't see the motives.

He asked a few more questions about how WH was doing, what he was doing, etc., and how I was doing, how I felt, what I percieved about WH, what I'd been hearing, etc. I told him that I was getting a lot of pressure from most of the people I know IRL to get out. He asked "so why don't you?" I talked about my M vows, religion, comitment, not feeling "released", the kids, etc. He said "So, you're being a martyr?"

Ouch. I sputtered a little bit ... no, maybe, I guess it's possible, I don't think so, yeah, no, .... uhhhhhh .....

And he said to quit being a martyr and figure out what my motivation is, because martyrdom has a very short life.

So we talked about my motivation for still being here. He said to try to look at it in a positive light, as what I have to gain. That the ideal scenario is to be in love with my husband and have a great marriage with him. That the best possible thing would be if we can succeed in being in love and happy. Not just because it's the right thing to do, but because it's in my best interest.


We talked a little bit about the questionnaires ... one of the LB questions is about dishonesty, and I told him I didn't know how to answer that one. That, as niave as it was, I used to believe that WH was actually INCAPABLE of deciet, that it was actually physically impossible for him to lie. And that now I don't know what to think of any of that anymore. I don't know about his honesty, and that really bothers me because that was one of the things that drew me to him in the first place.

SH asked me how I reconcile that now. I said I have no idea. He said that it's a n ugly truth about human nature. He said that much, much more often than not, he heard BS's talk about WS's the same way I did .... that no one would have ever believed that they could be dishonest, that they were "pillars of the community", pastors, teachers, counselors, and the type of person who people always say "of all the people in the world, S/HE wouldn't do this."

SH said that very often, the people who are the most known for their integrity are the ones who fall because those people , and the people around them, are so secure in their integrity that they become over-confident, and don't have a *plan* for how to maintain that integrity. And that's what makes it easy for lines to get blurred and fuzzy, and then to get crossed -- failing to maintain a plan and take precautions. He said that gradual exposure, "just a little bit won't hurt me, because I'm immune to this" eventually becomes a little more and then a little more and more until you get so intoxicated that you become the opposite of what you are.

He said it doesn't matter who you are, if you don't have a plan and aren't actively protecting yourself, then you can become addicted.

I thought that was really pretty interesting, and actually helped a little bit with some of the disgust that I'd had for WH. I said that I thought I could be ok if we were going to get to a point where there was a plan, that we were protecting our M. SH said that's where we want to get, but not to jump the gun, that that is down the road. That right now we are still in the "election" phase getting us each to buy in and decide to do the recovery work.


That's when WH called me and I conferenced him in.

SH asked him about the contacts with OW. WH told him about them, and a call the night before that he hadn't told me about yet. He said he'd called her the night before because he had found some area of the policy manual that said the IA should have been completed in 30 days, and that he had gone to IA and pushed that issue with them that day and wasn't going to continue to sit back and wait on them. He said that they are investigating her, too (which I didn't know), and that's why she's stil pretty involved. He said that's what the call with her was about the night before. SH gave him the plan of running all contact with OW by me first, and WH said that would be ok, but that he would not go over the content of anything realted to the IA with me, because the less I knew about the IA, the better. He said that he has one ally in this IA, and "it ain't AmIok." That this is the first time ever that I have not been in his corner on anything, and that instead of being a team, we are adversaries on this IA.

SH asked him if he thought that I was prosecuting him. And WH said absolutely. That I was the one who started all of this by sending the letters. He said that we both have trust issues, that it was understandable that I couldn't trust him because of the A, but that he also didn't trust me at all with anything regarding the IA. That we are enemies on this issue. I'd been quiet and just listening until then. I said that I was really irritated with how they'd handled the whole situation, and wished that we could be partners on this, that of all the people that would probably look good to have in your corner, it would be your accuser, and that I had wanted the department to help ... not to IA him.

He said he works in a job where he proves intent all day long, and not to try to tell him that the IA wasn't my intent. He started listing all the people I'd sent the letters to, started saying how one of the people said the letter was pure venom .... etc., and of course it was my intent to get him investigated and to get revenge. SH said "WH, I think we need to be careful when we start talking about intent, because it was never your intent to have an A and do the damage you've done to AmIok, was it?"

WH was a little shocked by that, but agreed that it was true.

So SH, asked a little about how much longer the investigation could go on. WH said that he has just started pushing to get it ended. That up until this point, he thought if he just held on and hung in, then it would get done. But now it's been so long that it's getting ridiculous and he's going to start pushing. He said that he'd been researching the department P&P's and found out that they were wrong about the 90 days and that they really only had 30 days to complete this, and we're already well over 60. So he had apparently gone in and raised some noise with IA about it, and was going to continue doing so. But, again, he said that he wanted me to not know anything about it.

SH said, well, we need to get you both out of the place where you feel like oponents instead of partners, but it sounds like we are going to have to do this dance for a little while until the investigation ends.

We were out of time at that point, so SH said that we will need to talk about what happens when the IA is over, and need to go over both of our questionnaires. He said that we needed to go back and be more specific in some places and then send them back in, and to set something up again with him for next week.


Phew .... that was a lot of typing!

-AmI.

Hi, LA!

"What you're describing in your communications is teammates again...not you against him, him against you...sharing is partnering...sounds like you're both getting a thrill from not seeing each other as an enemy, out to harm you."

Sometimes ..... we're still "enemies" in the world of this investigation....


"And you...SPEAKING!"

Yeah, that part is starting to feel good! Not quite so scary anymore .... and so much nicer to get things out than to stuff them!


"Uhm, where does that supposed to come from?"

That was my assignment from SH from last time ... to notice and be appreciative and thank him when he was "thoughtful" ... to include telling me about contact with her.


" ... "I am fearful this is more escalation of being duped, tricked and used." What he's not doing...taking the kids for overnights at OW's...telling you he's divorcing, hurting from all you've done to him...withdrawing...punishing...defining you. None of that means a thing?"

Ugh .... how come you always (oops, not suposed to say always!) catch me when I'm trying to get away with generalizations??? Ok, it does mean that he's not doing a whole lot of other damaging things that he COULD be doing .... but, yes, I feel very fearful that I'm being duped again ....


"You've put him in a doublebind...you are saying transparency is not what you want. That's okay...state that. He's not SUPPOSED to be doing that which you don't want, don't believe you can handle. Okay. Be straight with YOURSELF so you can be straight with him. "Right now and until the investigation is closed, I do not feel strong enough to separate you being transparent. From the moment the investigation is concluded, I DO want transparency, please and a NC letter.""

The supposed to thing comes from that being the assignment from SH. And I understand the purpose of it. It's intended to help build trust both ways .... I can trust him to tell me about contact with her, and he can trust me to not freak out or turn it into a fight. For as tough and assertive and strong as he can be, he's also almost as practiced at being CA as I am.


"Being open and honest and protective of the marriage...alerting you to an attempted attack...which he didn't do before...is going to stab you, or document his intent and efforts for your marriage?"

Protecting the M is a good thing, and I don't think I'd see that as stabbing at all. Right now he's not protecting the M, he's choosing a relationship with her, and what he thinks of as protecting his career, over protecting the M. THAT'S what feels like a stab.


"Find out why you're having the withdraw urge...it's about you, not him."

It's totally trust. I don't trust his motives and am waiting for the rug to be pulled out from under me one more time. I really don't want to be on that rug when it goes next.

I hadn't thought about this going back to childhood, but can see some correlation with my dad here. I think I'll have to think about that some more....


"Will not begin until all contact stops, withdrawal is through and now I'm wondering if you're willing to get there...are you?"

The fact that there is still contact, and he justifies it and makes it seem not only ok, but neccessary .... and that we're therefore not anywhere near even beginning withdrawl .... all of that feels like we're spinning our wheels. We can't even start recovery yet, so what ARE we doing? I'm wondering the same thing, too, if I'm wiling to get back on this ride again ....


"If you can have a better marriage than you imagined in your lifetime...heal all your inner wounds and thrive...would you?"

This is kind of the angle SH told me to start thinking in ..... that the ideal is out there, but it will take work to get to. But that it's the best scenario, and in my best interest.

And there's already been some payoff for me, anyway. I've already learned SO much about how to have a better M than I ever knew I could have. Even with the curent state of things, we have about a thousand times more O&H than I ever knew was possible in an M before. I never knew how people actually talked about some things before, just couldn't imagine how people had intimate converstions .... not sex-related intimate, but here's my heart and soul intimate. I would ask for blow-by-blow descriptions of a conversation when friends would say "I was talking about .... with my H....", and still couldn't fathom being able to talk like that with anyone. Pretty weird, huh? I'm starting to learn how to do that, now. And that's better than I ever imagined an M could be before.




Hi, MEDC!

"One thing that I am confused about and makes NO sense to me whatsoever. What is this ho's role in the IA process?"

This is the million dollar question. For me, at least. I've wondered the same thing.

What I heard from WH yesterday is that: 1) they are also investigating to determine whether there are reasons to charge her, and 2) WH feels like she is his ally -- and his only ally -- in the investigation.

"... if she has already given her statement there is NO reason for your H to have any contact with her. "

I agree, and that's why it bothers me SOOO much and why I feel SOOO wary about his motives.


"...ask him to check and see where this investigation is at. I think his deligate certainly would be able to get a handle on the status of the investigation."

His department is non-union, so there is no delegate. Just the investigator. He did go talk to him a couple of days ago, though, and said he is going to start pushing hard for this to get over with. He had told me a while ago that the investigator told him that he had up to 90 days, but WH did some research and said that the department policies actually say only 30 days. So now he's starting to push pretty hard on this.


"...I am more than a little surprised at Harley's advice to let this play out this way."

SH sees it as a "no other choice right now" thing, but he also sees it as very temporary, with a specific end point, and says that there is still some progress that can be made towards getting us to buy in to the rocovery process. So that's what he wants to do now, just get to the buy in phase. He has already said that we won't be able to get any further than that until contact is cut off with her.



Lex and Orchid:

I'm going to have to do some more reading on the giver/taker, I don't quite have that completely figured out yet other than the basic idea of it. I think you guys called it right, though .... the big thought in my head recently has been "what's in this for me???"

I'm trying to focus on the potential for what we could have down the road .... that's what's in it for me.


-AmI.

Have kind of an OT question ....

I've only recently started realizing that my WH is almost as CA as I am. I thought he was the tough, handle everything, blow up and get it over with type .... but I'm realizing that's only with things that don't really matter. Important, sensitive or emotional things .... he's just as good at avoiding as I am!

While WH was up hunting, DS had a little meltdown and brought up some really horrible, hateful feelings he has for WH. Most of it was due to lies that bio-mother had told him over the years, some was realted to the A, some was just normal teenage hate my parents stuff. He was in a very vicious mood at the time, and expressed it as just bitter, black hatred toward WH.

We talked for quite a while that night and I got him calmed down, but really, a lot of this needs to come from WH. So I told WH about it all when he came down last Wednesday night. He said he'd talk to DS that weekend.

He still hasn't done it yet. I took DD out of the house for several hours on Saturday, with the plan being that WH would talk to DS then, but that didn't happen. He said he wanted to gather a little more information -- proof for DS (we have it, have had to defend against false charges from her for years).

So now DS is still kind of just hanging out there. I've done what I told him I would do, got him some information on some other topics that he was also ranting about, and talk to him pretty openly about all of it. But it seems like he's just waiting on WH to talk to him, like he needs it, but no amount of my encouraging him to talk to WH is working, either.

They are both being CA together!

So do I need to step in and say something? Nag WH to talk to him? Start a conversation for them? Do something, talk to someone ... ? Or do I just let this be their problem?

I'm worried about doing that because I think DS is at a pretty tough age, and I want him to learn to be able to address issues instead of stuff them. He learned to be a PRO at stuffing from a very young age, and he's internalized a lot of ugly stuff.

But I also don't want to cross that boundary with WH. This really needs to be his thing.

So, anyone have any thoughts?

-AmI.

When a parent will NOT step up to the plate, the child needs to know. Let your son know you love him but his dad is having a hard time talking to anyone about truly serious matters. It is not that he doesn't like your son but that the WS has a hard time dealing with real issues.

My son is 11. He has known his dad has a hard time being a real parent for years. He and I discuss this as needed. His father is aware we discuss this and yes his dad is on the carpet to step up to the plate. He is doing a better job but not enough and he knows it.

Let your son know you support him and want to keep him open to having open dialogue with his dad. Ask for his patience while his father gathers his balls and courage to speak to his son. Let your son know that while his dad is more fearful than he s/b, it will take time for his dad to figure this out. Ask for your son t/b patient. Mine is still waiting. He also has learned how NOT to be.

Make sure your son knows he has your support. Mine has. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Hugz,
L.

Thanks, Orchid.

I would say that WH is a good, "real" parent. But also a lot like our parents .... adult things are for adults only and you don't discuss them with kids. I believed that myself for a very long time.

It makes a lot of sense to tell DS that WH has a hard time talking about serious issues like these. Might make DS realize that it's ok that HE has a hard time with it, too. Other than that, I can be there for him and be as open as possible. He just really needs to hear some things from his dad.

-AmI.

Here are my newest set of questions ....

I'm a pretty touchy, hands-on, affectionate type. The kids will always try to stand really close to me because they know I'll end up scratching their back or playing with their hair or tickling their face .... things like that. They love it. When WH was not W, he loved it, too. And I do it because I like to .... I get as much out of it as they do. It's a connection thing for me.

So now that WH and I are getting along better, sleeping in the same bed, etc., it's kind of automatic for me to do a lot of those things again. But now I worry every time that I should be playing it more coy. Make HIM come to ME, and not seem so easy or available to do those things for him. There's this little voice everytime saying "this looks pretty desperate" and "careful, dont come across as clingy..." and, most concerningly, "why am I doing this, when was the last time he was affectionate to ME?".

So is it part of Plan A to start doing those things again?

Or does it look too available and needy and easy?

Is it better to still be pretty reserved and distant and cautious, or to jump back, full force, into Plan A?

Thanks.
-AmI.

AmI... I think it is okay to do those things. What should be happening at this point is that your H should be tested for any and all STD's. Remember that only 13 out of more than 100 strains of HPV are tested for though. That will cover the dangerous ones... but not necessarily the ones that can cause warts and such.
Follow your heart with that stuff... but get the ball rolling as far as testing so that you have peace of mind for that issue.
I hope you are well my friend.
MEDC

Towards the end, PLAN A needs to be STEPPED UP...FULL FORCE.

If there's a chance you will need to go into PLAN B, you want his MEMORIES of you to be WONDERFUL.

That's what I did and my H says that he definitely missed me IMMENSELY...couldn't get me out of his mind....even though he tried....

Think in terms of what your WH's primary ENs are.

Is AFFECTION one of them? Then, most definitely BE AFFECTIONATE!!!

There is no such thing as a "RESERVED PLAN A"...according to the MB Principles.

You should know me by now.

As Rinder has said, I'm a BY THE BOOK sort of person....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You know, every time I think of SF, I can't get the images of the two of them out of my mind. I think it will be a while on that one.

I don't know what his primary EN's are, we haven't shared our surveys with each other yet. I guess what has me nervous is this whole 'clingy, smothering' thing that has come up before.

I'm not sure where that line is between clingy and smothering, and showing affection. Between being too "easy" and "available" and making him come after me....

Is it too clingy and smothering to try to meet all his needs? To try to get 15 hours a week in? To do all those other things?

And (I know, I'm not supposed to think all this, but it's my honest feelings) when do *my* needs get met? When do I have to stop tip-toeing around his [email]cr@p[/email] and get to tell him how really angry and sad and hurt and crushed I really feel???? When is it HIS turn to be taking care of ME????? Helping ME feel better???? Convincing ME that it's worth it to stay????

Sorry, rant over.

-AmI.

I guess you aren't ready for what Pep recommended to me on this one. She wiped the images out by riding the horse even harder..if you know what I mean...cracking that whip. Hope you are grown up woman enough to decipher my code here... My goodness all this SF talk today... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />



You don't think you can use your intuition to determine what his needs are..My H NEVER actually filled out the questionnaires...



So how did you two court and end of married? It's the SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE. You've got to get back into those SAME OLD STEPS...



ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Four Rules of a Happy Marriage according to Dr. Harley. Remember..FOLLOW THE RULES..to meet each others Primary ENs.....

Here's the link for the FOUR RULES:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html



(((AmI))) Sorry, you've got a LONG WAY to go, Hon...This all had been accomplished for me after ONE YEAR in RECOVERY. We were moving in that direction..but it was SLOOOOW in coming...

BTW, I was talking strictly about AFFECTION...in my post to you... but you guys know my opinion on SF..these are two different yet RELATED ENs...

Lots of times my H snuggles with me in bed without SF..KWIM???

AmI... keep your pants on until the testing is done. You don't need anything that HO might have passed on to your H. Stick to the affection and nothing else.

Village bicycle carry many...er passengers [aka diseases].

Please take a cold shower. ;P

lol .... as I said before .... too many images right now for SF. Pants are firmly ON.

My question was really about affection. About knowing how much is too much. He LOVED it when we were dating, and seems to like it now, but has also said (during the last "recovery" phase) it made him feel claustrophobic, like I was being clingy and needy. So I'm trying to find that line between the two. Same for meeting other EN's .... he's said it felt desperate. I realize he said those things when he was deeply mired in A land, but it still makes me very nervous about trying too hard.

Just having a hard time finding that balance.

And I still have a piece of me really wanting to throw a "When is it my turn???" tantrum. Is it really going to be a year????


As for SF .... WH's Dr. is my best friend's husband. When I moved out after the first two d-days, they are who I stayed with. There was even a lovely rumor around town that I had left my WH to go live with Dr., Which was funny because it was technically true, but completely wrong. Anyway, WH has been going in to see Dr. for a respritory infection, and Dr. told him he needed to do the STD testing, too, next time he goes in (later this week). We'll see how that goes. There's no hurry for either of us.

Mimi, trying to decipher a little without being too indelicate .... you're saying (once we get to that point) to replace those awful images with some nice new over-the-top graphic ones of our own?

And would it be ok to TELL him that I'm fighting these images? Or would it just be more pressure and 'claustrophobic' for him?


Thanks, all of you!!!!

-AmI.

It's the WH talking (as Orchid would say) when he says that he wants you to back off..IGNORE the words of the WH and proceed with meeting the needs of your DH...My FWH complained too..THE WH DOES NOT WANT YOUR PLAN A TO WORK...THE MORE HE COMPLAINS IT MEANS THAT YOU ARE DOING GOOD..Get it?..If he liked AFFECTION when you were DATING..MOST DEFINITELY DO IT NOW...Whatever he liked then, he continues to like....

My main point is..that talk about.. you seeming TOO DESPERATE, etc. is THE WH SCRIPT..that needs to be IGNORED...

BACK LATER....

Hi AmI.

Just sending a little empathy your way. My H and I are in almost the same situation as you. We are counseling with SH, but H has not completely bought into the whole counseling thing and the recovery process. Steve has me doing Plan A too, and sometimes it is soooo HARD.

I too have moments (sometimes more than others) when I think - "When is it my turn?"

I see an IC weekly and that seems to be helping. I was wondering about the line you spoke of too. While we were apart, if I contacted my H, he would run from me. While I was in Plan B, he came after me. Towards the end of our seperation, he would go for 2 - 3 weeks and then he would initiate contact. With Steve Harley and my IC, I have decided that Plan A for me is doing the things that I always did before - from love - like making his favorite foods, getting up with him and fixing his lunch, little love notes, physical affection, admiration.

What I am not doing are the things that belong to him. I am trying to not fix his stuff, or manage his stuff, or tell him about his stuff. I am trying to change some of the dynamic by changing me.

His A was due to his sense of entitlement, fueled by a lack of respect. I have identified some ways in which I allowed myself to be treated disrespectfully and am working on boundaries to ensure that I don't do that again.

One of the things I asked my IC about was why I should do all of the good things I do, because even though I did those things and I thought we were good - he cheated. That's when she gave me the big 2x4 reminder - he cheated not because of anything I did or didn't do, he cheated because HE made the choice to, HE failed to protect the marriage.

So, I agree with Mimi. Continue to be YOU. He fell in love with YOU, he married YOU.

I am seeing and hearing things from my H now that lets me know that even through his A, he was thinking of ME. Here are some examples:

The towels he bought for his bathroom are the same as ours here at home. Likewise with many things - toilet paper, laundry soap, dish detergent, etc.. and even though I always handled all of the bills, he was using my same system of budgeting and paying bills while on his own.

We have this thing that we say with our I love yous. It is "moon and stars". His paper towels at his apartment and his napkins all have a moon and stars motif on them.

His passsword for one of his accounts is lizziedora. Another is the names of our pets put together.

I was amazed to see all of that. So, keep being you. It seems to stay with the waywards!

It's your choice, AmI. In all seriousness, it's taken a YEAR OR MORE for us to BUILD the marriage that we have now. It's a SLOW PROCESS but to me it's been well worth it. I can honestly and assuredly say that we are happier than ever. Yes, your FWH will eventually begin to meet your ENs but it will take you making the decision to LEAD the way. That was true in my case although I have heard others say that their WS led in Recovery.

I think Lizzie has it ALMOST RIGHT. You LEAD by being the BEST WIFE/BEST PERSON that you can be. That involves doing what a WIFE is supposed to do...SHOW LOVE AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR H...

I griped about this to SH and he confronted me about complaining about doing what I am supposed to do...

Sorry..have to go again..

Back later...

AmI,

Throughout this whole process, you have put aside your "self", the " I wants", and because of your willingness to do that, you are at this point. Press on toward the goal! You can do it! I will pray for you to keep the focus on the prize, for strength. You have come this far, you can finish! slang: YOU GO GIRL!

God Bless!

Actually, the IMAGES come later in the day...

I was speaking of replacing THOUGHTS of the FOW with ACTIONS...HAVING FUN...BEING INTIMATE..with your H...Being proactive and CLAIMING YOUR TERRITORY....In the end, he would be APPRECIATIVE and THANKFUL towards me...hugging me, kissing my neck..CALLING OUT MY NAME...GET IT? Wouldn't that wipe away THOUGHTS OF THE OW for you? I would hold that image of my husband loving me... to carry me through the day...

I don't know if you are interested in this SF talk now or not but I put it in my mind that she certainly could not top me in this department.I'm not saying that it was a CONTEST. It was just THE TRUTH. I knew/know all the right moves and all the right touches. I've been with him FOREVER. She was trying to LEARN when I already had the KNOWLEDGE. So my goal has been TO BLOW MY H'S MIND, giving him the GIFT OF MYSELF, continuing to be his WIFE. We have grown MORE AND MORE INTIMATE and have a wonderfully PASSIONATE MARRIAGE with EYES WIDE OPEN ( from the book PASSIONATE MARRIAGE). Make sense?

The way that this is hooked up with AFFECTION for us is that my H wanted to FEEL LOVED by me. That started outside of the bedroom. That's what SF is about for US...not just the SF. I evidence my LOVE AND ADMIRATION of HIM.

AmI,

What is this, "Should I share or not?" Is that like should I be truthful? Hmmm...

Affection...when you rub his back, hold his hand, stroke his cheek...are you expressing your love, your habit of love and connection? What could possibly be wrong with that?

When our words could not but wound, our hands demonstrated acceptance and hope of healing. Our mutual affection, even in the tiniest touch, kept that commitment present, even when our hearts were hurting, raging or despairing.

Touch to me says "I am here and I am aware, you are, too."

At its most basic.

Adding the layer, "I appreciate you accepting my touch" acknowledges that choice. Kept me tuned into gratitude for what I had taken for granted and demanded decades before.

Affection is friendship in sign language. On your side...not your enemy...unless I'm doing this to get that...and acting from my fear and not my love. Then I'm an enemy of myself.

I wanted to post sooner...I'm having an on/off problem posting on MB...very frustrating. Hope it isn't coming as frustration with you.

If he feels claustrophic or pressured...he's feeling that. Your use of "I" statements and ownership is yours...takes time and practice...proving that is what you're doing (even if he continues to hear blame). Leave his stuff where it is. Your Plan A is to be authentically you...acting from your choice to love, stay, be present with, in the present.

Please remind yourself of your premise. Put up stickies on your bathroom mirror to remind me. "This is me. True to myself."

"I want to live in truth. In reality."

"I choose to love and act from my love."

What Steve is saying can be taken as manuevering...I don't believe it is...I believe he takes you at your word...you want to recover this marriage, form a lasting partnership and heal together. Since that's what your goal is, here's where you go from there, from your truth. Takes being radically honest and OWNING that honesty. Acknowledgment and validation to self and to WH. Being safe and enforcing your boundaries. That tempers your Giver/Taker...puts them in balance.

Takes the fight out of conflict...and puts the love into listening. Injects respect.

You're doing all this, anyway. In ways you've changed, spoken, listened, did not withdraw or close down. You're doing that. You're being brave and true. Please acknowledge to self you ARE safe, 'k?

Don't lose yourself in response-based living. That was your habit for a lifetime. Not your WH making you...and remember, here is where we heal, in our marriage, and we have to do the work. You're doing the work. Stay centered in what YOU'VE chosen, not based on WH's reaction. Let the response go. Choose from your code.

LA