I laughed when I read your relentless come back...love your sense of humor...even when I'm blushing.

How are you feeling, AmI? Any better? It's that time of the year...so sorry.

Look at you posting, anyway.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Cyber-no-germs-only-hugs [[[[[AmI]]]]]]

LA

SH had told us not to share our questionnaires with each other yet ... and then just on our last call with him, gave us the assignment for how to share them -- just the EN's for now.

We are planning to do it after WH gets back from his training.

Well, I happened to see WH's (I started to write down how that happened, but it sounded like an excuse), and even knowing that I wasn't supposed to, I read them.

And they were both FULL of venom and hate. Every single page .... there was no "this is how I would feel loved", it was all about how disgusted he is with me because of the letters.

I'm so crushed. Just to think that he sees me that way .... it's so devestating. That little bit of hope that had been starting to well up in me has just been mashed right back down again now.


I know that I had my 'incident' of exploding and being hateful and venemous and cruel and saying mean things just to make him hurt the way that I did .... so maybe that's what this is for him? I can understand him needing to vent ....

And I know, it's HIS stuff, not mine. And I know that he's told me, and other people very often before that I'm a great wife, and totally conflicted everything he said in these questionnaires .... so I'm not taking it as mine, not believing that I'm worthless, etc. But still SOOOO hurt that HE feels that way. Feels that way enough to write it down and send it to Steve ....

Ugh.

My stomach has been inside out since last night. I'm so crushed.


-AmI.

You know Ami...

I wouldn't sit there holding my breathe that one day he'll agree with what you did. I'm not saying he won't...I'm saying it's his problem and his job to work through it.

After all...I have become very educated about affair dynamics...I have forgiven my H...I even understand now that it wasn't his intent...and none of that changes the fact that it still puts my back hair up [hisses like a cat in case that description isn't common to your neck of the woods]. I'm just going to have to deal with it and so is he.

I was reading MFs thread on recovery and it got me to thinkin' aboutcha because of the [all too common] BS trait of tending to "manage" their spouses feelings.

There is so much great discussion going on in that thread and I think you might get some insight or at least comfort from it.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

H thinks you are a great wife....

WH is "FULL of venom and hate"

My DH was extremely pi$$ed that I exposed his little world...I mean come on...I would be pi$$ed too!

I dealt with that attitude...I was the most horrible person...I did it on purpose...

It WILL get better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ami... just a note to say I was thinking about you and hope that this day brings happiness to your family. Hopefully your H is getting to a point where he is thankful for the battle you fought for your family. I wish your family a happy day.

You realize you are reading the entrails of a WS (aka: crap), right?

Now stop reading it. I know that's hard because now those words are imbedded in your memory and if there is t/b real recovery he has to work harder to remove them from him and from you.

Still you can move forward. You now know your mindset. If he accuses you of reading his stuff, tell him you don't have to but if he wants you to you will. He questions you, tell him it is written all over his actions and body language. Let him go figure how he is communicating such venom.

The point is to make him wonder and wonder hard. The more he is left to comtemplate his life, the sooner he will get to reality.

You and your family continue to make the best of the situation. Include him when he is nice and you WANT to but don't be afraid NOT to include him when he is being an [censored] or you DON'T want to. See how much power you have?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Thanks for checking in on me, I haven't been able to be around here much recently.

We had a nice Thanksgiving. Spent it with WH's family. I'm incredibly lucky to have really great in-laws, and family gatherings are always a good, fun, low-stress thing for us. At one point, WH kind of hooked my fingers for a few seconds, sort of a secret hand-holding thing. Odd, but kind of cute. Then he had to work that night, so he left early, but the kids and I stayed late with the rest of the family.

Tonight WH has already called me from work five or six times, which is not normal at all (usually two or three in a shift). And they were kind of long, awkward conversations, he was hanging on too long after the conversation was over, which is VERY non-typical for him, especially when he's working.

Finally, on this last call, he said he'd better go, because he really needed to "get in the zone". Then when he was about to hang up, he blurted "I love you." I was pretty shocked. Still am. Haven't heard -- or said -- that in a long time.

It's kind of cute that it took so much work for him to get his nerve up for that .... but that's about all the positive reaction I had to it. Mostly, I felt suspicious. That's not what I'm supposed to feel, right? I'm supposed to be happy that he's finally at that point and thinks he loves me again.... right? I'm not. I'm suspicious. He's said it before while he was in the depths of the A .... now I just don't trust that he means it. And I'm not ready to say it back. Is that awful or what? I feel terrible for even thinking that. I need to figure out some of these feelings. Is this normal BS stuff? What do I do with this now???

Hope everyone's having a nice TG weekend!

-AmI.

Mostly, I felt suspicious. That's not what I'm supposed to feel, right? I'm supposed to be happy that he's finally at that point and thinks he loves me again.... right? I'm not. I'm suspicious. He's said it before while he was in the depths of the A .... now I just don't trust that he means it. And I'm not ready to say it back. Is that awful or what? I feel terrible for even thinking that. I need to figure out some of these feelings. Is this normal BS stuff? What do I do with this now???

AmI,

I hear ya, girl. I have been feeling some of the same stuff. I say the ILY back, but I wonder if it's habit. I ask myself, "Lizzie, do you really love him? Or is it because you held on for so long that now you feel like you HAVE to love him?"

I'm still second guessing myself all over the place sometimes. Messy, messy business.

I miss the days when this wasn't all so much work. I knew he loved me, knew I could count on him, and the day to day stuff seemed simpler.

((AmI))) Just wanted you to know that I'm right there with you.

Ami... it is all normal stuff. And you SHOULD be suspicious. He is far from having earned back your trust. Use your instincts and the tools you have learned here. I am happy for you..... guarded but happy.
Be well Sis.

Calling me often is what my FWH continues to do.

It is NORMAL..what NORMAL Hs do..what he used to NOT DO when our marriage was UNHAPPY.

It's wanting to connect with you and also his way of BEATING HIS ADDICTION.

IMO, this is a GOOD SIGN...

It's meeting lots of needs...AFFECTION, CONVERSATION, RECREATION...

GOOD STUFF, AMI...

Ami.

I love reading your stich of late. You are truly a wonderful woman. He is incredibly lucky to have you. Ican relate to the "self righteousness" part. It is a trap that many a BS could hang themself with.

Keep giving respect to your WH as far as possible with you, Not only out of respect for yourselves but also out of honoring God. Because ultimately you help yourself.

LA taught me that maybe all of this "test" might be also to mold our character and make us grow leaps and bounds.

If you ever saw your first postings and the ones now, yopu would realise this. Be vigilant. Be loving. Keep praying.

You are so much more awsome than you think. (Just dont let it go to your head.)

((((((ami)))))) my lil. sis.

Nuff luv from Jamaica.

NC

Hi, Lizzie! Thanks for checking in. We really are on similar roads right now. You completely said exactly what I've been thinking! It's a weird place to be. But it's kind of nice to have someone at the same place with me.

MEDC, yes, definitely guarded! WH was talking the other day, and said he wanted to "stomp a mud hole" in someone ... one of the phrases he uses, and it made me laugh because I'm pretty sure you offered the same service for WH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi .... you're such an inspiration. I'm SOOOOO hoping that we end up in the "recovered" column with you. It's encouraging when you say "Good Sign" and "Good Stuff"! Thanks, I can use that encouragement right now.

nc007, thank you! It's nice to hear that other people see growth ... sometimes I feel so stuck that it's hard to see that myself. I didn't realize you were in Jamaica ... I vote for your house when we have the MB family reunion!


Latest updates here .... nothing earth-shattering, but not bad....
WH has been going out of his way to spend extra time with me. Every day at lunch he makes the effort to be sure we get together at least for a little while. He also pushed to get our homework scheduled, and our next call with SH. That was **really** nice, said a lot to me. He's been good about keeping me posted, and calling and keeping in touch. And he often calls just to chat, which is fun and reminds me of the old days. It's been nice. Also, another ILY this morning when I was getting ready to leave for work. Still shocks the heck out of me to hear that.

I'm noticing the effort, and trying to put the same kind of effort out there, too -- while still remaining guarded. We've been down this road before. But still, I'm noticing the effort.

Hanging in there..... Thanks SOOO much to all of you for all the encouragement!


-AmI.

an ILY from a WH..................wow!

now i am jealous.

LOL. ami things are definitely looking up.

luv Ya.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just thought I'd update a little....

The last few weeks have been weird. It's all felt very unstable and tentative for me. Trying hard not to read into every little word or action, and just be honest and open .... not always easy, but I'm getting there a littel bit at a time. Mostly, I've just felt really suspicious and was starting to crumble. Lots of triggers, and every one of them just seemed like more evidence for why I should just give up and get out.

LA, I can't tell you how many times I've told myself to act from code and not feeling, and to try to trace my feelings over the last weeks .... because I've been FEELING like RUNNING as far away from here as possible. My feeling has been wanting out. Wanting better. Wanting to not have to put all the work into this.

Anyway, today we were supposed to do our homework after church, the kids were going to BIL's house. I have been dreading it ever since I read it a few weeks ago (yeah, it's taken us that long to do our homework).

But it actually went pretty well. He was shocked at some of the things I said. He couldn't believe I felt as "in the hole" as I did. He has believed that ever since Mt. St. Helens, we were great and perfect again!?!? He was shocked at the things that I scored low, and really listened and paid attention. And talked. And he also did a good job of talking through his needs. (We didn't do LB's yet, just EN's). He was almost embarrassed to do "appreciation", but did it anyway, and even read what he wrote .... ("I don't need her f***ing appreciation"). He said this is one we can work back up to, but that we needed to leave it alone for right now.

We got a lot of good stuff out of it, really.

I was surprised to learn that he thought everything was ok, and he was surprised to learn that I really, REALLY didn't. Guess that means I haven't been very good at being O&H recently, huh?

He did say in O&H and in Conversation both that he wanted me to learn how to be ok with some level of confrontation and to stand my ground. And he said I'd been doing better at that recently.

And we both kind of have a little bit of a gameplan, now, on what things make the most impact for the other person .... and it's stuff I can work with, I think.

So, I guess I'm leaning a little more to the hopeful side again. At least not itching to bolt right this minute...

Tonight, he went to SIL's house to help her with some things (she is in the middle of a D, also), and when he left, I went to give him a little peck good-bye, and instead, he grabbed me around the waist and gave me a good, sweet hug, too. And a little grin .... said "see, I was listening!"

So maybe we're making a little progress. Very slowly and tediously .... but it's coming.


-AmI.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm so happy for you AmI.

Lookit you, AmI...learning, growing...getting stunned is part of it...until you comprehend into your belief system that O&H IS intimacy, then your CA will keep winning the day in silence...

Your WH loves you. You love him. We often make each other our enemies in marriage...Hendrix explains it so well...that hearing each other's stuff is eye-opening, stunning and freeing.

I don't think you got that freeing part before. Being heard. Understood. Not DJ'd or assumed...wow...and you sharing did that...and him sharing did that...

I know you get it now...keep it, this time...close and warm and joyfully aware...this is intimacy, bravery, and being human...know your own patterns and permissions...some of them could free you further if you revoke them unwaveringly.

Way to go, AmI...you're really worth knowing...as is...not a thing defective about ya...and you no longer act from your feelings, right? You act...and your feelings follow.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

{{{{{{{{{AmI}}}}}}}}}}}

LA

Hello! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just stopping in to check on you! Sounds like you are doing well! Please don't feel alone in your struggle AmI!

I have to continuiously remind myself of these things! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi, Rin!! Haven't seen you around here in a while! Thaks for checking in, how are things going for you???

Mimi and LA .... I have been reading your posts to other people around here and just keep learning more and more from you both every time. You are both such a huge blessing to this board!

LA -- it's been slow, but I'm determined to get this O&H, intimacy thing down. I've only recently felt the freeing part. And the connection part. I like it. Who woulda thought it's a GOOD thing to tell people what you're feeling???

IAD -- Hi!! I'm happy, too .... Thank you!


I'll post about today's apointment with SH in a few miutes. Thank you all for hanging in there with me!

-AmI.