Thanks, WOF.

I want to think about your post, reread, and respond later.

Georgia

I don't get on much lately, or read, on the advice of a counselor H and I are working with, but couldn't resist checking up on your thread.

This is GREAT news!!!

Life can be so boring and sometimes downright PAINFUL, I do NOT begrudge a person who has found happiness to embrace it, and like a wave you are surfing, follow it into shore...

You are happy, you know it won't be this ecstasy forever, you have BTDT...you BOTH are wise and KNOW how this works...

I trust you!

One thing I would like to encourage you to do, and I know the folks on here have been a real lifeline to you, and not to forget about us...but...have you thought about posting on D/Ding or D/Dating? A much different perspective there.

I can't help but think that a married person't perspective on this matter would be different from a D'ed person's perspective...

Don't forget about us over here, but start another thread "over there" and see what happens...

Okay, an update.

First, my car which is spotless and ready for my "trip" is sounding like a diesel (it ain't). I don't know why, so I've got to rent a car tonight.

In bigger news...

I had invited #1S/DIL to join Ann and I Monday night for dinner. I heard from him about an hour ago. He told me he had breakfast with my pastor this morning (about a 2 hour breakfast).

They ARE going to join us Monday night!!! There is not words to describe what that means to me, and I'm sure I can't convey it to you here. Let's just say that every time I think I'm out of tears, I find a fresh batch of them.

I am SO thankful... for this latest in a long string of blessings...

Georgia

I met a woman yesterday at a seminar who had known her husband for 15 years before marrying. They lived together. They only decided to marry when they decided to get married. They married 3 yrs ago. They have a nearly 2 yr old. They have been divorced a year. Her husband got ill and became mean and depressed. (maybe they didn't say those in sickness and in health etc vows)....anyway...do ya think they knew each other when they married? Too many people are living together indefinitely unwilling to make a commitment to marry. I know this really has nothing to do with you and Ann. You have no intention of living together before marriage.

FGG, I would think that it can be a good thing for your marriage that Ann had a good marriage that didn't end in divorce. At least you both haven't experienced the pain of infidelity.

Amazing that your XW felt like telling you what OM said about recent stuff regarding you and your XW. As if you'd care to hear his opinion. I would think it only helped you to feel you did the right thing in ending your M. She clearly has more esteem and respect for the OM's opinions more than yours for a number of years. I agree with JL that your XW has some other things going (mentally) than her EA alone.

I think one of you having to relocate will cause the difficult adjustment. It won't be easy as you both want to be involved grandparents. Hopefully, you will both be financially able to travel back and forth as much as you'd like. There doesn't seem to be an easy solution. If you moved out west that would probably mean changing your job, wouldn't it?

Hi Trix....

The relocation issue has been heavy on my mind, obviously. It is very kind of her to agree to come here, however, I know she loves her gk's (and D's) dearly and I WANT her to be happy.

Here is what I am currently thinking...and what I have really felt is the best solution. (I am waiting until she gets here to get her thoughts).

I know for a fact that she would like to get back to the South. And...she would like to have some land where she can have / raise horses.

What I think we should do....

When we marry, I can rent my house out to medical students to pay for the mortgage payment. I will move to CA with her, and we can live in her RAPIDLY appreciating townhouse. She is supposed to have enough income from her real estate investments to be her sole source of income in 5 years.

This will allow me to get to know her kids & gk's, hopefully establish a good rapport (more than that, actually get to love them, I hope!). When she is ready (and I think she actually will be), we will move back here. We can live here (in my house) temporarily until we find the "farm" that she would like.

Maybe by then, I'll have gk's. And...maybe by then my kids will be more ready to accept Dad and Ann.

My job is pretty much portable, I can do it from an office in her townhouse. I also know my company has a itty, bitty tiny location near where she lives. I may see if I can beg office space there.

In a nutshell, I think I would be pretty hard-hearted to bring her here, totally away from everyone she knows as well as her family, and expect her to acclimate happily to a new marriage.

Of course, the down side is my parents are here. So far, they are able to live independently without me.

Anyway...that's what I'm thinking.

Georgia

WOF...

I've thought about this a bit. I wonder if what you're saying is not very similar to 2 young newlyweds (1st time around). You discover all those "anomalies" after the marriage, the one's you never would have expected beforehand. And...in the same way as your 2nd M, can you EVER be prepared any more than KNOWING that you're going to undercover those "differences"?

I thank you for pointing this out to me, it is definitely food for thought.

Trix...it seems like xW still just doesn't get it about OM. I really, really think that she's decided that if she WAITED long enough...the whole world would come around to her way of thinking, we would all love OM, and be one big, happy family.

I think that now for the very first time, she knows that the barrier has been crossed, bridges burned, and this isn't just an argument that will soon end. Even D's can be "undone"...and I think she thought that sooner or later I'd come to my senses and come back.

SHMI - I will check out the other forum after this weekend, as I'll not be here much for a few days.

Thank you all for your input today. It is been a rather traumatic day, hasn't it? Wow....enough said about that.

#2S never returned my phone call. I'm not feeling too good about our R right now.

Georgia

itty bitty tiny location???

OH yeah! Since I am pretty sure I know the company you work for, I am sure they can find a closet or something for you to work from. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Who knows maybe some time we might meet at your 'itty bitty' location, as I go down there once a year or sometimes less...I hate the drive. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FGG, I think your plan may fly. If your time schedule works, your parent might need to in 5 years or so.

Best of luck, and I am glad #1 son is going to have lunch with you.

God Bless,

JL

Well...I'm off for the weekend.

Those of you who pray, please pray for us this weekend. It is going to be a busy weekend, lots of people to meet, lots of plans to put into place.

I'll be back middle of next week.

Georgia

I'll be back middle of next week too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

But I hope to be able to at least peek at MB sometime before that.

I'm sort of lagging behind all the posts because I just don't dedicate that much time to reading here anymore and because I'm not getting any e mails from MB! I've sent tempest a message about that. Is anyone else having that problem?

that was just the tj.

What I want to say to you FGG is that I'm very happy for you although considering that you and I started plan B within days of each other, and I'm still there, I can't help but feel that everything is going too fast.
I agree with what Starfish, 2long and others have said and I believe is what Mimi means. They have all said it better than I ever could: too short a time, too many relationships, in what was supposed to be your "personal recovery" period and on top of that the problems of remarriage.

I have tried to listen to Dr. Harley lately and he keeps repeating the 2 year waiting period for plan B, after divorce and even before getting married.

I admit to thinking "like a man" in the sense that I like to solve things and have always been in a hurry to get things done. My whole life. I remember the first time I read on the MB page that to resolve the whole infidelity matter would take AT LEAST 2 years, my first reaction was to think NO WAY!!!!!

It has now been some difficult 21 months and I understand the wisdom of waiting. I'm still not recovered and lately I've read what I think is the real truth: you never get over loss, you just get used to it. I am disciplining myself to wait the 2 years. It's not easy but it can be done.

You had suffered because of your FWW's infidelity for a long time before you went to plan B, and I believe you had no choice but divorce when you did for your protection. Still I keep hearing Dr. Harley say "wait 2 years".... And if we come on MB the purpose is not to prove Dr. Harley wrong, it's to make the best of his experience, his knowledge and the goodwill he has to share with everyone. Just yesterday he said that the purpose of the radio show was to offer help to those who aren't too keen or used to reading!

He has also said he never offers advice unless he is asked for it, because it is a waste of time. If the person does not ask for it, he/she will not only not appreciate it but will probably resent it. The reason I had not posted before is because you have stated that you are not really inetrested in getting advice because you have already decided what you are going to do, so let me wish you all the best in your new marriage. I'm sure you deserve it.

Looks like I am going to be in the minority here, but I want to say this anyway.

Congratulations, FGG. Wishing you the best in your life.

I think that too many of us place too much emphasis on time. Although I would admit that having more time in a lot of things is helpful, it is not always the cure all.

I don’t think that it is either reasonable or logical to compare dating and potential marriage while we are in our 20’s or so versus dating and potential marriage in our 40-50’s. Big difference. I feel that the biggest thing in a relationship is not what we have found in others, but rather whether or not we have found ourselves at that time. In our younger years, we are still trying to find ourselves, let alone worrying about the partner.

There are NO guarantees. I do not care whether one has 1 year or 10 years in examining a situation, there is still a chance that one takes. Sure…we may make a more informed decision, but…in some cases it is a moot point. The reason that I say this, is really….does one have all the “facts” when deciding, over an amount of time, whether or not to take a relationship to the next level up to and including marriage?

One only has the “facts” that the other person allows them to have. If time had been such a big factor, if FGG had dated his XW longer than he did before he married her, would he have had a better chance of knowing that she was going to be a WW in later years? I think not. He was not going to know that whether he dated her 5 years, or 15 years before they married.

The bottom line is that people change. People change all of the time. Since that obviously gives us a constant changing variable, there is no way to make a very informed decision. I dated my XW for over 2 years before we married. I knew, and was comfortable that she would NEVER commit adultery. 14 years of “experience” and “time” with her, and I never wavered from that thought. But you see….all that time did nothing for me. Didn’t make me one bit better at deciding to get married, and if it was what I wanted.

Because people change.

All we can hope for determining what WE want. We can only HOPE and BELIEVE what our partner wants in a relationship. Are they telling us everything? Can we safely assume that their wants and needs as relayed to us are 100% factual?

There is NO guarantee that it is.

There are many couples that have married after a minimal amount of time after dating and been happy for years. My parents, grandparents, uncles, etc. married after very short courtships, sometimes even after just days. They lived happy. There are those as well that don’t make it to the first year. There are those that date, even live together for years…get married…divorce in the first year.

I really think that it all boils down to how well that we have found “ourselves”. That pertains to each of us in the relationship. If both parties have discovered their true self, then I don’t think that much time is needed.

I dated a few women after my DV. I did not consider it until after my DV was final. I think that I may have dated 8 or 10 different women in a period of 18 months. Some were just one date, and I knew that there was no need to be a second one. Some were 3 or 4 dates. 2 of them were somewhat serious, lasting 2 or 3 months seeing a LOT of each other. I can tell you that there was nothing that I knew on the days of “breakup” with those that I did not know within days of meeting them. I want to say that it was sort of like A Good Guy’s situation over on the Divorced and Dating forum. Those relationships are in the “gray area”, and take a little time to iron out. But…for those of you who are familiar with that thread will have to admit that there is nothing that AGG suddenly found out after months of dating. He knew about the things that were difficult for him to accept right at the onset of his relationship with “G”. Time did not make him know more about “G”. Time made him understand himself better, and he discovered himself to a greater extent.

Which leads me to say something that most will probably think that I am crazy for saying, and will strongly disagree with…..If a person has a good understanding of themselves, and are really and truly HONEST with themselves, I think it is possible for them to know fairly quick what they want, and if that person is going to be “THE ONE”. It’s not so much as needing several months to learn about the other person. Think about it….if it takes someone months….even 2 or 3 years to learn the other person, they are real good at keeping a lot to themselves. They are good at being secretive.

I know that the woman that I am with now is the “one”. I know that as I feel different towards her than I have ever felt about anyone. How long did it take me to know?

2 days.

Yep…2 days. I knew on the second date that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. Here it is 3 years later and I am even more euphoric when I am around her than I was on the day that I met her. 3 years later and we still talk to each other every day on the phone, while she is home and I am at work. In an 8 hour workday, I will talk to her 15-20 times a day. Both at my initiation and hers as well. 3 years later and I still look forward to getting home to her and the kids. We still spend every spare minute that we have with each other. From the time I get home, until we lay down every night, we spend all of that time with each other if there is nothing else pressing for us to do. Kids are to be in bed early enough each night so that her and I have 2-3 hours alone time, EVERY DAY, to enjoy each others company. That is not meaning SF (although it occurs during that time, some <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />). SF is more emotional and enjoyable for me with her that it ever was in my life. It doesn’t even come close to my past life.

I do not know a thing about her today that I didn’t know 3 years ago. She could change tomorrow, but…knowing her for 3 days or 3 years would NOT have given me an advantage in that situation.

FGG….You know what you want, and need. You have to “trust” that she knows what she wants and needs. All the time in the world is not going to help you in determining if she is being honest with herself. That is a chance you take. And if you really feel that Ann is the one for you at 3 months later, I would bet that if you would be honest with us, and if it was something that you would care to share, I think that you would tell us that you knew loooong before now, wouldn’t you?

If you read a lot of posts on here talking about breaking up I think a person will find out this….That the breakup was not caused by suddenly discovering something about their SO, but rather finally being honest with ourselves. The other times would be because someone drastically changed, like my XW and yours, and all the time in the world with someone will not give us the ability to precisely predict that happening.

All in all the correct decision is made by being honest with ourselves.

Long-winded – crazy post to a lot of others, no doubt – my $.02

EDITED TO ADD:

Also, a lot of people adapt and change to certain situations that we would have never guessed they would have done. They change when things around them change. There are many that can cohabitate for years a certain way, and...when that marriage license happens, they respond differently.

Reminds me of a woman I dated years and years ago that had a 13 year old neice that became pregnant. I remember that she was, in my mind, a baby. For all purposes that is what a 13 year old is. She loved dolls, games, life was one big playhouse.

However...after the birth of her child, she TOTALLY changed. Most of us thought that it was impossible for her to be a mother. She actually made everyone proud. She was a good mom. Because of her age she may have needed help, but...I can say that she gave more than 100%. Really, really was impressed with her. Goes to show that people can and will suprise us sometimes, even when we are sure otherwise.



HCII

Looks like I am going to be in the minority here, but I want to say this anyway.

Congratulations, FGG. Wishing you the best in your life.

I believe everyone who posted was wishing him the best. They just had questions on how to achieve it. (grin)

I (for one) am wishing for an update on the weekend. We might as well hear how good it was. (we hope)

SS

Hi folks....

I'll back up and read those long posts later, and I'll likely add my own long post to it as well.

Summary: It was wonderful. We had a lot of really getting down to the nuts and bolts of where we're heading and how we're going to do it.

I just got back from dropping her off the airport, and she's enroute right now. Boy...do I miss her already!!!

Okay, I promise more of an update later.

Georgia

Okay, a ton of apologies from me but this has been a HECTIC week.

Well, it was a wonderful visit. When I picked her up in Atlanta we headed straight up to her IL's (late husband's parents) in TN. They are wonderful people, very loving and kind and very receptive of me. We told them Sunday morning that we are engaged, and they were surprised AND happy! They told us they have been praying for years for Ann to find someone who would love her and care for her, and they trusted in judgement in making that decision.

We left there late Sunday morning and stopped at a nearby lake for our morning devotion (remember, we've committed to start each day we're togehter with our devotion). It was bliss, reading our Bibles together and praying together.

Then, a long drive back here, with frequent stops just to get out and stretch and take pictures. A lot of talking along the way. We talked about living in CA for a while when we get married, then moving back here. She really liked that idea and appreciated that I would be willing to do that when I know she would come here if I ask her to do so.

Sunday night we went over to my house for while and she loved the place. We sat out on the deck, her head on my shoulder. Then, I took her over to the hotel where I had reserved her a room (a late 1800's hotel restored to a resort hotel now).

Monday was a busy day.

We had our devotion in my living room after I picked her up. Very nice.

We went with my realtor Monday morning and looked at 2 houses, both with about 5 acres of land. We both feel in love with the first one...pastures on both sides of the house, a full front and back porch, 3 stall barn with tack room, etc. She loved it.

Then, lunch at my parents house with my aunt and uncle as well. My mom had cooked a wonderful lunch and she was obviously right at home. They've not been able to say enough good things about her since the lunch.

Monday afternoon I showed her around town a bit, then back to my house to just relax for a while. We actually both feel asleep and took a nap we were so tired.

Monday night was the big night. Dinner with #1S/DIL. We ate on the verandah at the hotel where she was staying. #1S was quiet but pleasant, and several times I think he actually starting "enjoying" her, but then it was kind of like he would "remind" himself and back off a bit. Ann and DIL hit it off really, really well. I feel comfortable saying "they bonded".

Tuesday morning we sat by the pool at the hotel and had our devotion, then went out to breakfast. We took our time driving through town, back by the horse farm, then off to Atlanta. We stopped and ate an early dinner, then I had to take her to the airport. It is so incredibly hard to see her walk away and head back to CA.

Yesterday morning I had an appt with the dr. #1S works with. #1S actually does most of the exam, so we had lots of time to talk.

I was struck as soon as I saw him that his demeanor was totally different, he looked "HAPPY". I mean.....joyful, content, happy. I haven't seen him that way since...well...since all this mess started.

I had decided not to even mention Ann, just let him say what (if anything) he wanted to say.

I had been there for a while, when he just blurted out "I'm really glad we got to meet Ann Monday night". I my gosh...there is NOTHING he could have said that would have delighted me more. It is so cool....it's ALMOST like I've got #1S back....

Well...it's been a very trying week for her at home with her kids, but things seem to be getting better. She's going to be with one of her D's all week next week in Hawaii. Just the 2 of them. So....they should have lots of time to talk!!

I feel so very, very blessed to have found this Godly, Proverbs 31 woman. Things are going so well....

I am trying to find a "reasonably" priced apartment (or B&B) to go stay out there for a while. I've got the green light from my boss that he doesn't mind if I'm here or there, as long as I get my work done.

So...I may become CALIFORNIA GUY for a while...I'd love to get to know her family (and vice versa).

Okay, that's my update....

Georgia

I'm happy for you. And praying for your #2S as well - that he may feel peace within himself and not feel the need to please his mother or his father at his own expense (I'm guessing that his mother is pulling his strings so to speak on loyalty - as well as the conflict with Lynn and life and everything - poor guy's probably overwhelmed. Praying that he finds his relationship with God to be sweet and comforting. Then he can feel his own feelings instead of figuring out what he's supposed to feel - and then he will also find himself as genuinely happy for you as #1S is right now!)

Thanks KA -

I should add that we have agreed that we will not set a date yet. Her kids need to have time to adjust and get used to the idea, so we've mutually agreed that if the "heretoforementioned' date doesn't seem workable, then we will push it out further for the good of all involved.

Georgia

I had #1DIL's "mom" over for dinner tonight. Her H died 2 years ago.

Her #1S (50 y.o.) told her TODAY that his W of 27 years (and mom to 2 kids) left him and told him she wants a divorce.

Seems he's not "FUN" anymore!!!

Okay, I know I've been banished over to the DIVORCED: DATING AND RELATIONSHIPS forum, but....

I would like to invite WOF to visit me "over there" and offer input. Seems I have hit one of those prophetic WOF "i've never had to deal with this before", sort of things...and I would appreciate input / thoughts.

Let me add....I miss you guys...

You haven't been banished at all.

Don't know about anyone else, but I've not been at my desk for a few days, so no posts lately.

It sounds like things are going well. I'm glad your son is happier.

I had #1DIL's "mom" over for dinner tonight. Her H died 2 years ago.

Her #1S (50 y.o.) told her TODAY that his W of 27 years (and mom to 2 kids) left him and told him she wants a divorce.

Seems he's not "FUN" anymore!!!

Almost bet there's an A. What do you think?

Anyway, I hope things continue to get better, and better, and better.......

You get the idea.

SS

Thank you ss...

I brought up the idea of another man and she said they are wondering that....but it hasn't come out yet if there is.

This is just another heartache for #1S/DIL to deal with. She has always loved and been close to her brothers....and now here we go again...

I've called #2S 2X since our last conversation (and engagement announcement) and he's not returned either call.

#1S/DIL have been on vacation all week. I hope I can have them over for dinner one night when they get back.

Third Home Bible Study is tomorrow night. Working through James...a difficult book for those going through extreme trials.

I was thinking also.........

It must have been difficult to come here and share your joy about finding a companion, and then feel like you were attacked for the choice you made.

I realize people were trying to help, but it probably didn't feel like that to you.

You do know people are happy for you, don't you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

SS