This is his email to me today:

Bottom line is that you are not going to be able to let this go. Your words do not match your actions! You mean well! but at the end of the day I am left to pick up pieces.

I believe that the only way for you to see clearly is to go our separate ways. You will eventually realize what true love is about and this is the best thing that I can do for you!

I also deserve not to be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life. I am travelling alot now and I have to have total trust in the relationship that I am in. You have only provided uncertanty/confusion and I cannot continue to function as a human being this way.

My children!!! THAT IS THE HARD PART!!! What is the example I want to set for their future..... MARRIAGE IS ABOUT RESPECT and THERE IS A PRICE TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING! I know that a separation will devesatate the children and the relationships we are involved in the future will further destroy them but YOU HAVE SET THE WHEELS in motion and disregarded the implications of your actions.

I can easily play the sucker role again and just move on but I know that you do not have clarity to the damage you have done this time. It is time for you to take full responsibility and not use me as an excuse to OM on why "true" love connot happen. You are free! as you wished!

_________________________

So there is no more NC/C issues, no more what will happen in the future etc.... from reading his email, he is very angry still and well, let's face it, he has every right to be angry.

Thank you everyone for your posts and trying to help me in this situation. I am sure everything will somehow work out.

Becca <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

when you say things like this to yourself

it is your way of

not making choices

there are many circumstances in life where things do NOT "somehow work out" without planning & effort and diligent hard work and PAIN too!

Pep

Well, you have two options.

1. Get a divorce.

2. Use this as a wake-up call that what you're doing has repercussions to everyone you love, and that if you don't start DOING something to fix the situation now, you'll lose them all.

My wife found herself in much the same boat. After 3 weeks of her waffling back and forth and attempted cake-eating, I went to a legal rep to learn how divorce works in our state. Came home that nite, she started her stuff up again, and I blew up. Gave her my notes, told her that if that's what she wanted then let's go, because I wouldn't live any longer waiting for her to make up her mind ( I may have used a slightly less gallant phrase there...something about head out of...).

End result? Wake-up call. That was our second major step towards recovery...first being when she didn't get on the plane to go live with OM.

So...now it's up to you. Wake up call, or travelling papers?

it was a reply to my email to him asking him if he was willing to work on a NEW marriage rather than the old stinky marriage we had, see here, this was my email to him:

Dear BH,

I just got back from counseling and I know it has been quite difficult for us to communicate the last few weeks. So I am typing this email so you can have time to read it and maybe by the time you get home tonight, you can let me know where you stand.

I have thought long and hard about our situation. The counselor suggested I put the girls aside and think of you and me and our realtionship only. She said trying to think of the girls as well in all this will only guilt us both into staying in this situation. I think she is right. When I think of what would happen if the girls weren't in the picture I realize that sadly, neither of us would be here. The person we both have become in the last 16 years is not the same person we married back then. The roles we have assumed (you as the father and me as the child) aren't the roles two people in healthy relationship should have. We have never had an "equal" partnership and many of our problems perhaps are the result of this relationship we created.

There is no doubt we both care about the other, but there is also no doubt that we both can make each other pretty miserable.

None of this is new. You know this and I know this. OC's birth now adds a whole other set of issues. Like you have said, no OC is not the problem. I know you could raise her as your own after all, you've been here with her since her birth. However, based on the state of our relationship, for you to raise OC it means we both would need to accept we both have a lot of work to do to make this relationship strong enough as to never have to face these problems again. The work is going to hard, and it is going to be a struggle and it won't be easy. We both will have to let go of the past completely and focus on the future and work at making our relationship so strong that nothing or no one will ever be able to come in between us. This also means creating intimacy like we have never had in the past because neither of us have ever been able to completely open up to the other person without fears of being judged or critized. It means getting to know the person we are now and not judging each other by who we were in the past or our behavior in the past. It means starting from nothing and going from there.

I am not sure you are will to do all this, I am not sure you want to do all this to make things better, a new marriage, not even close to what we've had until now. A marriage where we both can grow and know the other person will always be there. A marriage perhaps like what God truly intended a marriage to be.

This wouldn't be just "lip-service", we both have to want this bad enough in order to make it happen.

I don't want you to think "this is what is best for the girls" anymore, I want you to think of yourself and whether this is something you would want to do if the girls weren't in the picture. Otherwise, it will never be anything more than a "for the kids" marriage, tolerable enough until the kids are old enough to leave the house.

Like you said, in God's eyes you are free to divorce me and as hard as divorce may be, it might be easier actually than working in this marriage that is so broken right now. But it is a choice for us to make and if either of us feels unable to do this, then let's go ahead and plan on the next phase of this situation and hopefully with time we both can heal enough to get past all this so we can have a decent relationship co-parenting our girls.

I don't know if perhaps your mind is already made up, if it is, I still need to know. I don't want you to use the girls as an excuse for a "half-hearted" decision, in other words, don't tell me you agree to any of this if you know in your heart, you cannot do this. It doesn't do us any favors at this point to pretend we can fix something if we can't nor does it help our girls to see us miserable, unhappy and "stuck" with each other out of fear. We've been around long enough to know that is not healthy either.

So that's how I feel. I know it takes me a while to make a decision but I've been trying to see all sides of the coin and ultimately, what is best for everyone involved. This is for me the only way to know that I've made the right decision. In regards to OC, if this is what we agree to do, she once old enough, will know the truth about her father and she can decide at that time if she wants a relationship with him or not. I am certain OM will respect our wishes to have no contact with her once we make a decision.

Sincerely,
WS

This isn't an 'attack', so please realize that.

But I don't see anywhere in your email indicating to him that YOU want to do this.

Why would he want to, if YOU don't want to?

There's nothing in there about loving him, nothing in there about WANTING a new marriage with him. It came across as something the counselor wants you to do...at least it did to me.

Instead I walked away from it with the "I don't know if you even want to, but this is something the counselor said" kind of impression.

What about showing him that you want this? In words...but FAR more importantly, in deeds.

And remember...it ain't over until it's OVER. He's on the same emotional rollercoaster you are right now, only he's usually at a different point in the ride than you are, so there's no telling if you'll match up with him or not right now. He probably does feel like he wants a D...right now.

But his feelings are going to change over time...and hopefully with WORK from you. Make sense?

to make a decision whether or not to stay married ought to INCLUDE thinking about what is best for the children...

this...


... is horsepucky

fire your counselor!

Pep

Well McB, I hate to say this but to me coming from the POV of BS you pushed him into deciding to D. I did not see anything in your email to him asking for another chance, telling him what YOU would do to make this right. As Aphelion said, it can still be done but you made it harder now.

here's an idea

make a decision to stay married until the kids are 5 years older than they are today ....

and during those 5 years

you make each other as happy as possible

Pep

I agree with Owl...your e-mail is all about you putting the onus to choose on him.

Why don't you choose? And lead by example? And ask him to join you in the choice you've made?

Why not come out and say you realize your errors, are committed to making them right, and want the chance to show him over time?

He is telling you to take responsibility. So take it now, and choose to be responsible for the restoration of your marriage.

I'd be annoyed too if I were him and got an e-mail from you saying "IF we want this, then YOU have to do this..."

How about YOU go first and stop talking about separating?

"I am sure everything will somehow work out."

This is a standard saying of WS in general. I must have seen this said by FWW or OM in 100 different emails. Right out of Fog 101.

Becca, I am sorry. I feel for you and your BH, but it is the now the 11’th hour. This is the snooze alarm going off.

Thinking it will just work out is letting other people and circumstances in general run your life for you. Just like you slid into adultery in the first place.

You can still choose. You can still decide what you really want and what you will put behind you and never turn to look back at again. You can still choose what you will work hard for.

I am reminded of scripture: whoever puts their hand to the plow and looks back is unworthy.

Your marriage can still be turned around; it just got harder, that’s all.

Time for you to choose, once and for all.

With prayers,

Becca,
Just checking in, looks like just in time! If you know what you want then that is what you should be communicating. A long letter asking what BH wants and questioning on several occasions in this letter whether he WANTS this or CAN DO this... isn't much of a pep talk. If I received that letter from my WS, it would not serve as a PEP (no pun intended PEPPERBAND) talk. It would leave me with more questions about you and what you want. At times like these somebody has to fight for the marriage... if you both stand back and wait for signs that the other person has a pulse, you'll watch as time passes you by. If you know what you want, start acting like it... if you don't stop asking him and get yourself to a counselor to figure out what you want... just make sure you have gotten through withdrawal first!
Good luck Becca, you can do this. And as I've once told Marshmallow. ..... You will never regret doing the right thing! Nobody ever does!

Heartsore

McB, there are a lot of things to work out in your M. The first thing is to get past the acute episode of your A. That healing has not really even begun since NC has not been in place.
Now that the OM has said he will relinquish his parental rights there is one less obstacle in the way... you have one real choice here... fight like he!! for your family. Show you H in your every word and your every action that your family is the most important thing. It is hard for a person to get over an A... even harder when a child is involved...what are you prepared to do????

Do you love your H? Really deep down inside live him? Do you want your M to survive? Do you value the family that you can have with him?

If the answers to those questions are "yes" the fight has just gebun... maybe round one is done... but there are 14 more to go and a lot of fighting for your family left to do.

Now, it really all comes down to... what do you want to do? Do not just accept your H saying it is time to quit... that reaction is normal...you need to try and figure out if it is honest or just him feeling hurt or testing your committment.

Fight.


PS... what is this comment all about?

McBecca

I agree with both Pep and Owl.

As a BS, I read your email imagining it was my W writing it.

I read you saying "I'm not sure what I want to do... this is going to be tough because I want a perfect marriage... I don't want to be the bad guy in all of this, I've already made enough mistakes... you decide."

You've talked about what you feel he will or won't do, but not what you are going to do.

It is rare that I would rip into a WS because I fully understand that you are going through just as much turmoil as a BS... but you have to understand, regardless of what problems were in the marriage before, you ripped out his heart, stole his dignity, stomped on his self-esteem, and showed zero respect...something that is so important to a man.

My FWW has not gone to all the lengths that I wish she would to help me, but I have made a choice for many reasons including my own growth, my own respect in trying to show unconditional love, and reasons for the kids.

What your H wants to hear is some assurances that he is the most important person in your life, that this won't happen again.

I realize that you need to set your own boundaries, but being wishy-washy about recovery tells him you don't want it and you are too big of a risk for him to try.

If he is a man worth holding onto, then deep down he wants most or all of what you are describing... neither of you have known in the past how to get there.

Right now he wants to see and hear what you are going to do... not what he isn't doing.

I have often gone back and forth over the "risk factor"...wondering if I should cut my losses now as opposed to being hurt again. But every time I come back to the best thing is to remain committed to the marriage...the vision of a great marriage. We aren't there yet... but we will never be if I don't remain committed.

Stop being a risk...unless you really do want out of the marriage... and start taking risks. Risk that your love and your future means something. Shout it from the rooftops and find ways to show him what your marriage means to you. No more wishy-washy.

I have a lot of respect for you being here. I imagine it takes a lot of courage to write here knowing most of us are BS's. It also takes a lot of courage to fight for your marriage. Your affair was like a bullet wound into your husband and into your marriage... but when the wound is being operated on, you have the opportunity to fix other injuries at the same time before being sewn up.

Shaden

As a BS as well I am going to agree with Owl and Lexxy.


If this is the criteria then it would certainly be hard to meet for a BS. A bad M before an A does not some how make things equal. I cannot let go of the past completely, not just about the A about all of my past. You see I have learned from the past. In order not to make the same mistakes over and over I have to rely on my past to make good decesions today.


Judgement is a pretty tricky thing. I use the phrase use your best judgement. How do you do that again based on the past UNTIL the person I am basing that opinion on has proved me wrong in the present and future. Not a judgement of the person per se but using your best judgement in a situation that the other person is in with me. If my FWW says I have changed I am not that person I want to see a continual pattern of behavior that would prove that to be true. No lip service about change just actions. I am not saying that you haven't and he just doesn't want to see it.


When my FWW told me about her A I did think about the kids. I did stay because of them for a while then I stayed because I loved her. The children gave her the opportunity but for her to say to me the only reason she was here was because of the kids cut me to the heart.

What the heck did I do to make her question our M? What was so bad that we couldn't work it out before the A. Were there problems? Yes. Were they hugh NO. Now she is telling me because she had an A and things are now worse she wouldn't be with me if we didn't have the kids.

To me it hurt because it showed me her commitment to me. I had an A and now I wouldn't be here if I didn't have kids with you. Am I a disposable asset to you. Do you mean after hurting me like that you would just walk out the door.

That is not showing him the commitment he diserves from you. I don't know your H but those words coming from my FWW's mouth really cut deep and made me feel she didn't have regret or remorse for the pain she had caused me.

Now with that being said it doesn't mean your M is over.

You need to take ownership of your issues. He needs to take ownership of his issues. You can plan A the heck out of him. Maybe a little time away will help him. I don't know but if that letter was to me it would have hurt me.

I know that wasn't your intention. I know you were trying to communicate with him and take a step forward.

The last thing a BS needs to hear from a FWS is a lack of commitment.

McBecca - Please ask your husband to come here to MB and BEG him for a chance to be a family and make this right. Do it NOW. This very second.

A note on the idea that this will affect your children...

IT WILL.

I didn't get involved in the other thread, but I know what my W experienced.

Her "father" had multiple affairs. Her mother had multiple affairs. They divorced when she was about 12.
Her father was suicidal and hateful...bashing her Mom at every opportunity. Her father abandoned her... choosing his anger over his children.
Her Mom re-married her A partner. The stepfather was difficult to deal with for a teenager. This was a huge mess for years. He is now passed away.

Her mom admitted about 7 years ago that her Father was not her biological father (another affair). When my W tried to contact biological father... he wouldn't have anything to do with her.

My W had her 1st A (ONS) when we were engaged. She had an EA about 6 years ago...and her PA last year. (These are the ones I know of... and praying she is now telling the truth).

The damage was done as a child and continued through. She (and her twin sister) has been abandoned by fathers and men her whole life. I almost did the same.

She lives with depression.

This does affect the children. Yes, I agree that sometimes a divorce is a lesser evil than a bad marriage... but the best option is two people figuring out what it takes to make a good marriage... for them and the children.

You have a responsibility to do whatever it takes to raise your kids well... and one of these is to teach them how to build strong, loving relationships.

I hope this helps and does not add further confusion to the mix.

Shaden

I don't know in my heart that I will never do this again if I am not in the kind of relationship that will meet my needs too!! I mean, I can lie and say that it won't happen but what if it does?? Remember, I tried for many years to pretend that it was OK for my needs not to be met!! I am afraid if he doesn't want to work at our M that we will be back to this mess again!

I honestly don't even know if he knows what my needs are! I've asked him to check this website several times but he is busy at work etc.

Part of me thinks he is realizing he doesn't love me either. I don't know. The man does not communicate.

Becca <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You BOTH need your needs met McBecca. Both of you. It seems to me he loves you a lot but is in turmoil right now. You have to do the running at this point because really your affair caused all this mess so it is up to you at this point to make steps towards him. He will respond McBecca. But counselling and bringing him here will definitely help him.

It WILL happen again if you don't both meet each others needs. You are in a very vulnerable spot now. You MUST close the door on OM completely. Clear stringent inviolable NC. NC for a period of 6-8 weeks and you will both feel better and more positive about your marriage.

This can be done McBecca. There is a way through this and back into a solid loving wonderful marriage. MANY people have done this on this site. As unique as you think you are, you are not. Not even a little bit.

Quit now and you will regret this the rest of your life McBecca.

Becca, just after d-day my H wrote me a love letter which made our MC cry. She said it was the most beautiful love letter she'd ever heard. She asked me how I felt about it. I said "it was very 'nice'." She asked me to write one back. I gave it to my H and he said "this is just a lot of justification about why you "needed" to have an A." He was very upset.

I didn't even see it at the time. I was not in a place to even know what I needed to do. You have the benefit of MB, you have the benefit of the hindsight of all of us here.

I'm going to repost a post I got from a poster here on MB which upset me (very much) to start with but, after thinking about it, it turned everything around for me in a very positive way. Here it is, because I think it relates to your situation as well.


“It’s not all about me.”

“I am going to find out what is wrong inside of me to mitigate ANY future harm that I could do to my husband and demonstrate how much I love him expressed through loyal, faithful, unwavering compassion to him only for the rest of my life.”

“I will seek out and quash the emotional Ebola virus in my mind that has wreaked complete destruction on myself and the person that I have loved the most in my life; my husband.”

“Now and always I choose to live a conscious life based upon goodness that my H can learn over time to TRUST in so he can believe in me like I believe in him.”

“These are thoughts that I will have to deliberate daily until my last breaths because I have found inside of me, a way to subvert those things which hurt the greatest of my treasures; my family.”

“The pages of my life read a story of pain and suffering that should not be there. I will fix that inside of me which enables misery, at my hand, to befall my family."

yes he does !

he communicated his love for you everytime he held that beautiful new baby in his arms

were you paying attention?

Pep