Our lead story on the news tonight was about our Leader of the Opposition (the opposing leader to our Prime Minister).

20 years ago he left his wife and family for his press secretary. All happy, happy and new baby - the works. It came up during his election campaign last election and he said he had no wish to rehash the events of 20 years ago. It was not something he was proud of but it had all "worked out well" in the end.

Tonight it's come out that he's been seeing ANOTHER woman, a business leader.

Boy, I bet his xw and family are rolling on the floor laughing.

LOL

My wife's OM was in a 20 year affair marriage. Crazy isn't it.

“If he does it with you he'll do it to you”

Very true words Jen…

A few years ago, the following excellent article appeared in a South-African magazine (I posted it here at the time but underneath is a copy of it again). Especially point 2 is very applicable to the heading (and examples) on this thread:

[color:"blue"] BEFORE YOU HAVE AN AFFAIR WITH A MARRIED MAN

He’s so special, but his wife doesn’t understand him. You’ve never felt this way before, and he’s going to leave her for you. Before deciding whether or not you want to stay with him, take the following five steps to better understanding what you could be letting yourself in for. Then, either way, you will be the mistress of your own destiny.

1. Accept that the odds on him leaving her for you are not great

You may think he is the most delicious, misunderstood man you’ve ever met. You might believe your love is The Real Thing, that you and he are soul mates and are destined to live the rest of your lives together. You might, of course, be right, but chances are he’s just a man being unfaithful to his wife – and you’re just having an affair with an unfaithful man.

Consider these realities. If he has children, it’s unlikely he will leave his wife. If he has had other affairs in the past, it’s most unlikely he will leave his wife. If he hasn’t left his wife and children ‘yet’ (saying things like ‘she’s unstable – I’ll leave when she calms down’ or ‘I just need to wait for Zac’s concert/birthday/Bar Mitzvah’), he will not leave his wife.

Still feel this is true romance? Happy to be a long-term mistress? Then continue

2. If he does leave his wife for you, remember James Goldsmith

Yes, a dead old English rogue is relevant! Famously unfaithful, the English billionaire once said, ‘A man who marries his mistress creates an instant job vacancy.’

If your man cheated on his ex-wife, why wouldn’t he do the same to you? A man who has affairs is often the type who is easily bored, chafes against domesticity, needs adventure and intrigue to keep him feeling alive or needs his sexual attractiveness affirmed by different women.

If he’s done it once, what would stop him from doing it again? To you? Do you feel you and he will beat these odds? Then continue

3. Think about who you are

Not to bee too preachy about it, but are you happy to be called a home-wrecker? In a few years you could be married yourself. How would you like your husband to deal with your marital problems by falling into the eager arms of another woman? If he really loves you, he should, at the very least, be prepared to be with you in a legitimate way.

You don’t mind being thought of as ‘a bit on the side’, ‘the other woman’ or worse? Then continue

4. Take a long, hard look at his family and finances

For as long as you’re in a relationship with him, you’ll be in a relationship with his family. If he leaves them, his ex will probably be angry, hurt and resentful. You’ll probably have his children at your home every second weekend and for chunks of your holidays. And it won’t be carefree. Stepmothers are portrayed in fairy tales as ugly and wicked, because children don’t like stepmothers who took Daddy away from Mommy.

Divorce is extremely expensive. Keeping two families afloat financially is extremely expensive. Children need schooling, clothes, toy and computers, and grow up to need cars and university degrees. He will carry this financial burden for life. Still want him? Then continue

5. Think about being at the bottom of his list of priorities

The average unfaithful guy will put work, wife and kids first in his life, even if you are first in his heart. So prepare yourself for weekends alone, sneaky phone calls and cancelled arrangements. Want a cozy birthday a deuz or two weeks in Plett? Forget it. Want to hold hands in public? Want to go to a movie or your favorite restaurant with him? Not likely. How long do you think The Real Thing lasts if your only available expression of love is at his convenience at some affordable hotel?

There are, of course, exceptions to our bleak (though informed) views on men who cheat. Somewhere out there, there are deliriously happy second marriages based on infidelity. But out there, too, are even more single men who are in a better position to make you happy.[/color]

If my wife had read that article before her second affair, I think she would have not been so "love struck".

I'm pretty sure he was feeding her lines about "I'll leave my wife and five kids", etc. I like to think she was smart enough to question if she wanted to spend the rest of her life being "the other woman" and understood the financial burden of child support for his family.

I, personally, never understood how a wayward spouse could commit their life and love to someone who had already proven they couldn't be trusted with the life and love of their current spouse.

Certainly in the case of my wife's second OM, he was a pathetic worm of a man who lied to everyone around him about the affair to make himself look good. I believe he has convinced his wife that he was "innocent" and my wife was some vixen that came along to tempt him away from his family. I don't know who did more "tempting" in the affair, but I do know that he has lied to his wife about his role in the attempted re-connection between him and my wife. She has chosen to believe him.

Good article to keep handy.

Thanks

At least his current wife knew she wasn't marrying a faithful man so she can't expect any sympathy. She knew the kind of man she was marrying. Unfortunately, the kids had no choice in the matter and are the victims.

Momma always said, “How you meet them is how they’ll leave you.”

It’s amazing the amount of wisdom those West Virginia mountain folk can amass with nary a psychology class.

I was thinking about the rattle snake dancing that goes on in the great Smokey Mountains and how it’s much like the dance with a WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I’ll delve deeper into this untapped pool of wisdom for the next few days.

I’m certain there are lots of old sayings that are more enlightening than I ever gave them credit for.

I should really have thought about it before I married my WW. She left her first fiance to be with me, cheated on a 'serious' boyfriend to be with me, then left her second fiance to be with me also.

It was in the cards. What the heck was I thinking?

He'll be different with you, you're special.
Author Unknown

You two have a "connection," a rapport that he didn't have with his wife. You have more things in common, similar personalities. He's pointed out all the ways that you two are so alike - it's just uncanny. You are so lucky to have met him at this point in your life. He says that he really appreciates you for who you are - and he's the first person to really do that, isn't he? Sure, he said the same things to *her* when he got together with her (and then grew to hate so many things about her), but it's different with you. He couldn't possibly be operating from scripts anymore. And it's so nice to finally have someone YOU can lean on, isn't it? It's hard being on your own, managing a household, and doing it all yourself. All of a sudden, here's this guy offering to help in ways that no one ever did. Knowing all the things you have been longing for and wanting in a partner. He couldn't possibly be hooking into your heart-felt desires and hurt places and pretending to be the answer, because he knows that's where you are vulnerable. He couldn't be pretending to like the things you like, and want the things you want, and be the person you have been looking for, because it's part of his patterns. Just because he did that with the women that came before you, doesn't mean he's doing that with you. He's really sincere this time.

He's told you all his deep dark secrets (at least, all the ones he thinks can win him sympathy and attention). He's acknowledged how he behaved badly in the past (even though it was brought out by who he was with). You two must have a very special connection for him to be so open and "honest". And he seems to be remorseful, so that must mean he won't do that kind of thing again, right? Not with you. You're special. So what if he told his wife the same kinds of deep, dark secrets, opened up in the same way? So what if he exhibited the same kind of remorse for things he did to partners before HER? So what if he told her all the same sob stories and pretended to be working on his [censored] with her? So what if he lied to his therapist and others? He really means it this time, with you.

He says things are going to be different with YOU. Even though he SAYS he accepts responsibility for his actions, he also says that it was really things in HER that brought out his bad behavior. He's not going to be like that with YOU. Sure, he said the same things to HER, but this time he'll be different, because he's told you how YOU are different from her. (So what if he's told other people how you remind him of HER? That doesn't mean he's following the same old patterns, targeting the same types of women. That doesn't mean that he'll be turn emotionally abusive with YOU at some point...) He's such a sweet, wonderful, helpful guy, it MUST have been something in HER that caused him to act badly, right?

So what if he was busy cutting her down behind her back with their mutual friends while he was telling her she was the "best thing that ever happened to him", and that he had "never loved anyone as much as he loved her"? That doesn't mean he still has the capacity to be manipulative and dishonest and cruel. He was just confused, the poor man. And besides, he won't be like that anymore, with the right woman to love him and dote on him. She just didn't give him the kind of attention he really needed. But YOU will. So he'd NEVER do that to YOU.

So what if he didn't leave his wife before he got together with you? It's not like an abuser should spend a few years in therapy, and work on his stuff before getting involved in another intimate relationship, right? I mean, after over 4 decades of emotional abuse and being an abuser, he can get himself fixed up enough to stop harming others in a just few months, with the right woman to rescue, er, "help" him.

And those stories of how his wife emotionally abandoned him... He's just had it so ROUGH all his life! He told you how she didn't even try to keep the marriage together or say that she wanted to try to salvage their relationship when he said he wanted to separate. She was just so unfeeling! The poor man - here he was trying so HARD and all - seeing a counselor and everything! It couldn't possibly be that SHE was so emotionally beaten down by his behavior that she was RELIEVED when he wanted to leave... He couldn't have been emotionally abusive and dishonest with HER too! If his wife didn't trust him, it had nothing to do with HIM and his behavior - it must have been HER issues.

Even if in his past, he DID say, "Some of the problems I bring about by vamping, pumping up the emotional content of a situation. Of course that's easy to do with a new friend. I have a stock of techniques and behaviors, tested. I'm also inventive ... so I pick up new techniques fairly quickly ... It's just I'd rather enjoy the "romance". It comes naturally to me. I enjoy doing it. It's also a head trip for me, with my poor self esteem, to have someone so taken with me. I like the first results, the joyous feelings, the elation, the euphoria, just not where it leads." ... he couldn't possibly still have been doing that with his wife, or even YOU. He has REAL, deep feelings for you. You've even seen him cry and show his vulnerable side. That MUST mean he's sincere, right? He couldn't possibly be using YOU for an ego stroke. Not the man YOU know.

He's just so caring and sensitive and considerate. He's so sweet, rubbing baby oil all over you, making love, sending you little cards, doing all those romantic things. He really does seem too good to be true - cooking, cleaning, intelligent, literate, creative, affectionate. So what if he was like that for the first year or so with her too... before the subtle patterns of abuse started to creep in? So what if all that "wonderful" behavior shifted until he was telling her he loved her one day and then telling others how horrible she was behind her back the next? He wouldn't do that to you too, down the road. She must have brought it out in him. He couldn't possibly be playing the same game over and over again, with you as the next target. No. This time, he'll be different, with you.

So what if he has been incapable of honesty and integrity all his life? So what if he actually admitted to his wife (just about the time you two started up again): "I am afraid of truth-tellers. I have so many lies in my past and present. The truth burns." That couldn't mean that he was telling lies to YOU. After all, he was so HONEST about his dishonesty so THAT'S got to count for something... It must mean he realizes his mistakes and won't make the same ones again, right? The fact that he acknowledges things is so CONVINCING. If he acknowledges it, then he couldn't possibly STILL do those sorts of things. Sure, sure. He had HER convinced too. But he couldn't possibly be STILL lying to YOU. You're special.

Yeah, sure, he might have done those kinds of things in the past, but the past is the past, right? It doesn't have any danger of repeating itself with you. Because you're special. His love for you is so strong and your connection to each other is so different (at least, that's what he has told you, and you know you can trust him, right?), he wouldn't EVER do anything deliberately hurtful or malicious to YOU. He wouldn't undermine YOUR support network and use your friends to hurt YOU. He'd never make snide remarks about YOU behind your back and then make sure you found out about it. No no no. She must have brought that out in him. But you, you're special.

Besides, he's been in therapy. That must mean he's sincere, right? He wouldn't possibly be using the whole "therapy" thing as a cover-up to make himself look better because his reputation got damaged after the fiasco with his wife. He couldn't possibly be using contrition, and the "I feel so bad about myself"-line to get sympathy and support! He couldn't possibly be going after women who have a strong sense of personal responsibility because he knows how to manipulate that to try and get them to feel responsible for HIS sick feelings. He couldn't possibly be seeking out active, intelligent, dedicated women, so that he can PUNISH them when they don't direct all that energy to HIM. Just because he has engaged in such manipulative behavior in the past doesn't mean he would be doing that NOW. Not with YOU. You're SPECIAL.

He's so contrite and sincere about "working on his issues", he couldn't possibly be lying about that. Just because he has a history pathological lying to himself and others, doesn't mean he'll be that way with you. Besides, if he has deceived himself so completely that HE doesn't know it's a lie, then he can't be held accountable for it, right? He can always claim that he doesn't have good "memory" for things in the past. But don't worry. He won't use that sort of deception and evasion with YOU. You're special.

The poor guy just made bad choices before (you). Sure he made mistakes, but if his ex doesn't want to have anything to do with him, and now think he is mentally ill, it must be because SHE is unstable - I mean, look at how amazing and kind and charming he is with you... He couldn't possibly have been like that with HER TOO... He wouldn't be using stock romance "lines" on YOU.
This time, it's REALLY love. You're Special.

Sure, he did a *few* things in his past that were unkind, but he needs to be forgiven for HIS behavior, (after all, she drove him to it), but HER mistakes and reactions to his emotional abuse, were unforgivable. But things will be different with you. He won't think YOUR mistakes are unforgivable. He won't apply a double-standard to YOU. He won't expect YOU to be perfect and subtely criticize you when you don't measure up to his standards. You're the one who is going to change his life.

And speaking of unforgivable, of COURSE he can't forgive her for doing things that *hurt* him (he's so deeply sensitive, you see) - but he couldn't possibly have lied about the things he said she did. He couldn't possibly have "set up" situations so he could cry foul... He wouldn't have ENCOURAGED her to do things so he could later claim that he was hurt by her... And, well, even if he DID, maybe do that, he certainly won't do it with YOU. You're too special for that. Any time he tells you he's happy for you and he encourages you to do something, he'll REALLY mean it, with YOU. He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices for you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL.

He's such a nice guy, he won't "help" you (especially unsolicited) and then have an unstated hidden agenda like he did with all the others. He's going to claim his right to be "selfish" now, because he's been so USED from all the excessive GIVING he did in the past that nobody really appreciated. The poor guy. He's never taken time to be selfish in the past - not even when he was sitting alone in his room, sucking off his hurts, or using other people. That wasn't selfish - that was just "acting out". But he's better now. Don't worry. He won't use his new-found right to be "selfish" against YOU. No. He really is a changed man, with you. With you he will give unconditionally.

It's no WONDER he behaved so badly! Look at how his wife was always hurting him, oppressing him with her refusal to live her life solely for him, expecting him to be honest with his feelings and actions, when he just wasn't ready. And besides, he just can't handle confrontation, you know? And like, she's just so SCARY when she's upset (it's just so unbeCOMing when women display any anger!) that he HAD to act that way. She actually raised her voice at times! Can you imagine? Nobody else is allowed to have anger and raise their voice except HIM. Because, like, he can't DEAL with it, and he shouldn't be expected to! He couldn't possibly have been projecting HIS issues on her so that someone else could have his anger FOR him, or so that he could get angry with someone other than himself! He couldn't possibly have been DELIBERATELY hitting all her hot buttons to hurt and upset her so he could lay blame. And, well, even if he DID do that for years, he won't do it anymore, with you.

And if somehow you accidentally do things that "trigger" his old abuse patterns, he'll be so sweet in telling you how you are doing things that remind him of her, so that YOU can change YOUR behavior. After all, you wouldn't want him to start acting emotionlly abusive again because of something YOU did.

And you don't have to worry about that, because you'll never get upset with him, and you'll never challenge him to be honest or to accept responsibility for his actions. SHE did that, and it was "controlling," but it'll be different with you, because you know better. And you won't need to worry about calling him on his behavior anyway, because he'll NEVER lie to YOU. He'll always be completely honest and upfront with you. He won't have to "forget" any promises he made to YOU. If he is inconsiderate, it won't be DELIBERATE, with you. If he lied to her or anyone else, it was because they drove him to it. With you, he won't withhold information, or distort or omitt the truth. He won't break fundamental relationship agreements with YOU. He won't HAVE to, because you'll be right there validating him 24/7, supporting him and telling him how he's so CLEVER and BRAVE to have escaped such a horrible relationship, and how wonderful it is that he is working so HARD to overcome his terrible past!

And it's a good thing he's not going to do any of those things he might have done in the past, because then you won't have to worry about forgiving him. You see, she REPEATEDLY forgave him for the lies and the accidentally-on-purpose "mistakes", and all that did was make him feel bad about himself - that she could forgive and he couldn't. Wasn't that AWFUL of her to make him feel so bad that way? So she DESERVED to be punished even more. And she should NEVER have shown any guilt when he manipulated her. It just caused him to hurt her more. He told her it was "like blood in the water for sharks" for him. She should have known better. YOU know better. But then, he won't be manipulative and passive-aggressive with YOU. He'll be different with you. You're SPECIAL.

And sure he made her work at the relationship when he wasn't really trying, but that wasn't being dishonest - he just didn't know what he really wanted, so that made it OK to put the burden of the relationship responsibility on her. Sure he admitted that he wanted her to make him the first priority in HER life, but he wasn't willing to afford her the same consideration. But that wasn't one of his patterns. He won't do that with YOU. Besides, he admitted his dishonest behavior after he abandon her, so that makes it ok. It erases everything. His slate's clean. He even said he was sorry, months later, so that shows how sincere he was. He couldn't possibly still have been interlacing the apology with blame. He's not STILL acting manipulative and projecting issues.... and well, if he is, he's only doing that with HER because of their history - he wouldn't do that with YOU.

And it's so sweet how he still talks about how much he cared for his wife, how much he did for her out of love. Sometimes, he even talks fondly of his treasured memories of her, of how she "helped" him (when she wasn't hurting him, the witch) - that must mean he's a deep, sensitive guy, right? Maybe you can even "help" him to forgive her and heal from his terrible past... Just like SHE thought she could "help" him.

And besides, he did so many NICE things for her and all those other women. That should count for SOMETHING, right? It's not like he was emotionally abusive or manipulative ALL the time. So it kind of cancels things out, right? It's not like he HIT anyone or anything. At least the things he did didn't leave any VISIBLE marks. Besides, he probably just made honest mistakes, that's all. He couldn't have actually got off on seeing them hurt and crying. He wouldn't have LAUGHED condescendingly in someone's face while she was crying. Not the man YOU are involved with. HE certainly doesn't remember doing anything like that - and HIS memory is inviolate.

He's told you how different he feels with YOU. How different he IS with you. How healing your love is. How much he NEEDS you. What a wonderful person he thinks you are. How important you are in his life. How much he values and appreciates you, and misses you when you are not together. How amazingly transformed he feels now that he has finally met someone as SPECIAL as YOU. So what if he told her the same things? He really MEANS it this time, with you. He's a changed person, (this time, for REAL) with you. You're special.

You don't need to talk to any of his ex's to find out what he was REALLY like, because the past is the past, right? You couldn't possibly learn anything from their experiences, because he's not going to be like that anymore. It couldn't possibly be that they have anything valid to say. Besides, you trust him to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH about his past (as far as he can "remember" it), right?

And he's such a sensitive, caring guy, he REALLY does wish he and his wife could be FRIENDS now. He can't understand why she would have NO desire to have any contact with him, NO desire to have anything to do with him - after all he did for her, after what they had. After all, SHE is the one who did unforgivable things. He's so uncomfortable around her now, because of how much she hurt him. He wouldn't STILL be projecting HIS issues on her, and implying that they are HER issues... After all, he's a changed man.

But you don't have to worry. He won't PUBLICLY divulge YOUR insecurities or deeply intimate things you told him in confidence to other women - he won't betray your trust - like he did with her. No matter what happens between you and him, you'll ALWAYS BE FRIENDS. You and he will always be able to work things out. So what if he said EXACTLY THE SAME THING TO HER (and all the others) too? It'll be different with you. You're special.

He won't wait a year or two before he starts in on YOU. He won't then use his knowledge of YOUR insecurities and emotional hot buttons to deliberately hurt YOU. He won't start using psychological warfare to couch his deliberately hurtful actions in social plausibility with YOU. He won't flirt with your close friends and use any attraction they might have to him, against YOU. NO. He won't tell you that you just weren't meeting his needs or living up to his expectations. He won't expect you to read his mind. He won't try to make it look like YOU are the reason he is unhappy, and YOU are the cause of your relationship problems. He won't set you up to get upset with him so that YOU are the one who breaks it off with him, (or you get so angry with him that he HAS to break it off with YOU) and HE looks like a martyr (AGAIN). So what if he made all the same promises to her? Just because he was following some of his old patterns when he got involved with you, doesn't mean he's going to follow through on the rest of them. He's CHANGED now.

You're special. Just like SHE was when he was with HER. Just like they ALL thought they were.

YOU are the one who can "fix" his wounded ego. Your relationship with him will be So Much Better than his last ones, because you're special! With you, he'll be honest and straight-forward for the first time in his life. He won't become cruel or passive-aggressive. He won't play headgames anymore. He'll stop using and discarding people like old kleenex. He won't be rude or unkind or disrespectful like he was with those other women. HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH, HE'S NOW A CHANGED MAN. (Changed for the better, of course.) Not because of therapy. Not because he's removed himself from relationships and taken some serious time to get his [censored] together. Not because he's done any REAL work. Not because he's actually admitted to his real motivations, or made a single sincere change.

He just needed to find the RIGHT woman to "save" him from himself and "help" him become a better man, and that's YOU.

You just KNOW he'll be different with you. Right?

I don't really like that article. While it may be true in a handful of cases (we're talking giant hands here), I don't honestly think there are that many people out there who do it like it was a career, and that's how this article makes it sound.

JMHO

It's a funny thing, Resilient, I've read that before and I've read it again and again to see if any of it relates, but it's never related to my sitch in any way whatsoever.

I'm not saying my sitch was "different". Just none of that ever applied. I never had an "aha" moment reading it. Suzet's post strikes a lot closer to home.

I seriously hope what I've said won't be misconstrued. I could write a similar thing that has the same outcome - you're a fool and a nitwit to become involved with a MM.

I left my relationship of four years (XBF) to be with WXH.

I have never stopped feeling guilty about it, wondering about what it would be like if XBF and I reconciled, wondering what he is doing now etc etc.

Of course, I never told WXH any of this. Oh, I might have mentioned now and then that I felt sorry for XBF, but WXH was always a lot more entitled than me, and would say 'we have a right to be happy together' and 'it's obvious things weren't working between you and XBF otherwise we wouldn't be together'.

And I swallowed it all. Because with WXH it was easier to do that than discuss the real issues.

Now WXH has left me and our two children to be with OW. He must constantly say to himself 'OW and I have a right to be happy together' and 'It's obvious things weren't working between me and Alphin otherwise OW and I wouldn't be together' and I'm sure that OW constantly reinforces these thoughts.

Now the only question is which of them will betray the other first. Or perhaps the cost of this betrayal has been so great (because there are children involved) that their affair marriage (if it happens) will last a lifetime.

Alph.

You're just as foolish and just as much of a nitwit to become involved with a MW.

i agree!!

my H left me for a woman who left her H AND her 4 children ages 6, 9, 15 and 16??? yeah....you can bet THAT's a good woman who understands loyalty and committment! (ha!)






well.....since both my H and OW became involved with someone who was married...

i think "you're stupid, selfish, and think you are entitled and special if you become involved with a MM or MW" (isn't that part of the description of a person with a narcissistic personality? because THAT's what the counselor my H and i went to see said about him!)




i've never heard this before BUT it is EXACTLY true in my situation!!! my H fell head over heels for a person that everyone thought was completely wrong for him and he ignored them all and we bonded together "us against the world" because we were crazy in love

and now that's what has happened with OW

i guess hunters catch their prey using the bait and equipment they have been most successful with!

and she thought so was soooooooo special didn't she?

and another case to prove this point.....remember Bruce Sprinsteen had an A and left his wife to marry the OW? now it turns out he's been having an A for years....set up another life in fact....with yet ANOTHER woman and is leaving his poor, stupid affair wife for this new woman

gee i feel sooooo sorry for both thise women <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

RheRogueX, I believe if people can cheat on their exclusive partners before marriage (and don’t take corrective steps to address the internal issues which leaded to such behavior in the first place), then they can easily cheat after marriage as well… And unfortunately your W is/was an example of this… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

A while ago there was a discussion/debate on another thread on cheating before and after M. Some people on that thread didn’t consider cheating on someone in exclusive relationships before marriage (even with a fiancée) as serious and I’ve got the impression that some didn’t consider such behavior as infidelity at all. But IMO, even commitments that are temporary and/or not permanent yet (like exclusive relationships and/or engagements) ask for general basic decent human attributes and behavior like honesty, faithfulness, integrity, respect, honor, compassion etc… And IMO, if a person doesn’t have these important attributes and/or can’t apply this decent and respectful behavior towards others before M, such a person will probably not be able to do it after M too…unless (IMO) such a person do serious introspection and take corrective steps to address internal issues.

What I think the "special" article attempts to describe is the self-delusion of almost all affair protagonists that what they are doing togther is not an "affair" but something purer, more special, therefore not subject to the same opprobrium as tawdry "affairs" are.

I mean Squid had an affair with a man whose previous THREE marriages were ended by his marrying or living with his affair partner. Yet Squid FEROCIOUSLY defended him, that "he explained those marriages were mistakes, but he has never loved anyone like he loves me".

His GF , after I exposed, offered him half of everything to just leave right now, but he begged to stay and work while he was telling Squid: " She's unstable right now, when the time is right I'll leave her and we can be together. Meanwhile lets bang occasionally in a motel and you can flatter and admire my wastrel old self".

Squid again TOTALLY believed this ! She swore up and down to me that he was waiting for the right time to leave his family for her. That I was just twisting evidence to meet my agenda. That if I gave OM a chance I'd like him.

And the words they both used ? Their relationship was " special" just like every other entangled affair since history began. "Special" and so the clear and hard facts of the situation: that OM was a serial womaniser, and Squid was using him for her self medication just as surely as he was using her did not apply to them as in other people's tawdry affairs.

Now that the facts are unavoidably clear to her, she is embarassed that she ever believed her affair was ever anything more than two unfaithful people using each other for their own purposes. Nothing remotely 'special' about that IMO. I think that in its sardonic way that article does a decent job of pointing that out.

In all adultry situations special = short bus.

Regardless of how many times someone cheats (once or greater) most believe their affair is "SPECIAL" where they would never experience what the betrayed spouse have, betrayal by that person.

Suzet - that is a total distortion of that thread IMO.

I don't think ANYONE on that thread was saying that was anything other than immoral and shameful. But it didn't make her an OW.

infidelity is cheating on a promise ~~~> meaning disloyal to promises made ...

but it is NOT ADULTERY without marriage


THAT was the point people were making

pre-marital cheating is NOT adultery

Pep

Pep, IMO, as soon as 2 people decide to “go steady” or to get engaged, they indeed promise/have the agreement to be exclusive to each other until such time one/both decide to break up with each other and end the relationship/engagement…

Pep, I agree with this… Pre-marital cheating is indeed not adultery…but it IS infidelity if the cheating occurs in an exclusive relationship between steady partners or fiancées…

IMO, infidelity with adultery (pro-marriage) or without adultery (pre-marriage) are BOTH wrong, immoral and shameful and IMO lack basic decent human attributes and behavior like honesty, faithfulness, integrity, respect, honor, compassion etc. at the time of the infidelity… And this is the case whether the cheating take place before or after M…

Of course cheating after M is much more serious (because marriage is a sacred and holy union; promises were made in front of the altar and witnesses etc.), but to me, it is just plain wrong and shows lack of compassion to minimize the impact & devastation of pre-marital cheating on the person who are betrayed in such a relationship (a tendency I've witnessed on these boards lately).

I’ve also got the impression on the other thread that some people didn’t view pre-marital cheating as infidelity or serious at all... Maybe I’ve got the wrong impression and if that was the case I’m sorry.