I feel the focus in our marriage has changed. For 37 years I always felt that my husband and I had a wonderful marriage, but four years ago, we became part of a church cell group. My husband became very friendly with three widows in our group and gave them a great deal of attention and often sat next to them and spoke to them frequently. He also looked them up at church and even left me alone on one occasion at a church dinner to go and join his friends.

I felt his focus was no longer on me as his wife and he literally ignored me at these functions. His excuse was that he felt very sorry for these ladies who had no husbands to look after them and he saw nothing wrong in his behaviour.

Only after a lot of talking, arguing and reasoning did he concede that those ladies could perhaps read more into his behaviour than just pure friendship. I am convinced that they enjoyed all this attention form a male and they were definitely flirting with him. They were also always seeking out his company and practically ignored me while they were chatting to my husband. Our cell group leader's wife agreed with me that my husband's behaviour was inconsiderate <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />towards me, as he did nothing to reassure me while he was busy approaching these ladies. I felt humiliated and saw it as a lack of respect. I think he was flattered by their attention.

Our cellgroup leader did talk to my husband about making deposits in the love bank; all I saw were withdrawals as my husband expected me to just accept the status quo.

Through all this, my husband has protested his innocence, and maintains that he was acting out of the purest intentions and assured me that I was the only one he loved.

We have since left the cell group because I found it very painful to witness all his goings-on. My husband is very stubborn and does not easily admit that he's wrong, but he has cooled down his relationship with two of the three widows. He's not quite so willing to do the same with the third widow and at a recent church choir camp she came and sat down next to him and before leaving at the end she came to say goodbye to him specifically although I was standing just behind him she ignored me.

When I told my husband afterwards that I think he's still too close to that specific widow he became angry and accused me of being jealous and nasty and he added that that widow meant nothing more by her friendliness towards him. I wish I could feel that way, but I can see how often she's in the same place as him (by accident of course) and how she look sat him when she speaks to him.

I never thought it would be so hard to deal with a problem as it's turning out to be. My husband's favourite line of defence is that women read more into friendly gestures by men than they intended. At one point he said, he felt he could be as friendly as he wanted to be with any woman as long as no sex is involved. That's why I'm asking the question -when is it emotional infidelity?

Carolsusan07 [color:"blue"] [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

In my opinion, based on what you've written, it's not emotional infidelity.

Is it wrong and unhealthy for your marriage? YES.

He clearly needs to wake up and see that, even if the friendship is harmless in his eyes, it is causing you pain and discomfort an he needs to stop it.

I agree with your assessment that he is liking the attention. Men (including myself) enjoy being the hero and having women look up to them as such and compliment their manliness. These women certainly had that void in their lives and to some extent can easily fall into an entitlement mentality about how they deserve to have someone manly around.

Your husband needs to refocus on the most important female relationship he has -- with you!

If you find that he as been meeting with this woman (or any other woman) without your knowledge or communicating via secret email accounts (or open ones you don't check) or phone calls, etc -- then it has crossed the line...again, in my opinion.

Secrecy about the relationship is a key indicator. Also sharing intimate details about your relationship with him and seeking things emotionally from her he isn't seeking from you.

Not sure what your next step is, honestly. If he is unwilling to see that his behavior is destructive to your relationship, I recommend getting more church leadership involved in speaking with him. Is there a pastor or associate pastor that you can talk this over with?

I recommend you tell him you're going to talk with someone for another opinion about the relationship, first. Couch it in terms of, "I want another opinion if I'm off base in my fears." Invite him to come along. Since you don't have any evidence of infidelity, there's nothing to "expose" so he may see any secrecy on your part as an attack on him.

Best of luck.

There has been some secrecy in his behaviour in that he's actually her church deacon as well. I asked him some time ago not to visit her on behalf of the church by himself as she stays alone which I think's inappropriate. I only found out that he was still paying her monthly visits when she spoke about it at a cell group meeting some time later. I was very disappointed; but he said he withheld that information from me as he wanted to spare my feelings. Obviously, things didn't turn out quite like that, as it was worse to hear it from her.

I think my husband's being very naive if he thinks he's doing nothing wrong, and I also feel that he's not willing to give this friendship up because it's so good for his ego.It has actually become a source of conflict between us because he says I'm making allegations about an innocent woman. I can't agree with him as far as the innocent part's concerned, because she knows I resent her intrusion yet she persists. I think she has her own agenda and is too thick-skinned to mind my behaviour if I'm not overfriendly towards her. After all, I'm not the one she's interested in. I think men are easily flattered by women who are quite forward and open in their approach.

BBBIIIGGG problems, in my opinion.

He should not be her church deacon. Period.

I'm guessing you belong to a more traditional denomination?

A man (even the pastor) should not be visiting a woman by himself, especially on "church business".

Some churches of which I've been a member (some were Baptist, some UMC) ordained women deacons to deal with situations such as these. If that is not the case (and a men-only as deacons policy is fine), the church should have an enforcable policy that male deacons do not visit women without another deacon or the deacon's wife present. This is common sense.

This has been a disaster waiting to happen and maybe has happened but the "Band of Deacons" may have swept past occurrences under the altar.

I've seen, personally, single women (whether unmarried, divorced or widowed) create problems and troubles just to get someone to visit them. I'm sure men are capable of this, too, I've just never personally seen it.

I was a deacon at a couple of churches and can tell you that, as a deacon and church member, I would not have wanted your husband representing God and the church to this woman knowing there was tension between you and him over his contact with her.

This needs to be brought before the deacons as a body. They should be mature enough to handle it. I suggest you speak with the pastor AND his wife or the senior deacon AND his wife. Their wives can help them see your side of it since they may rather avoid the conflict and give your husband and this woman the benefit of the doubt.

You are correct that it is inappropriate. He needs to pull his head out of his "blessed ASSurance" and see what he's doing to his marriage.

If he would be willing to dialog on it, let me know and I'll provide an email address.

Blessings

Let me rush in to add something.

Your husband may indeed have no feelings FOR this woman, just an enjoyment of the praise and attention she is apparently showering him with.

That may not be the case, but it may be.

This does not excuse his behavior toward you and his intentional violation of your request not to visit her alone.

However, when approaching him or the pastor or deacons, keep this in mind. He may not be out there "looking for some" or would ever think about an affair with this woman. Again, I don't know him or the full situation.

I suggest you approach it on the facts and not speculation about what might have happened.

If you feel up to it and can do so without his knowledge, I suggest you do some checking up. Check his email and cell phone records. Check voice mail -- maybe get a recorder for his car (small, voice-activated digital one). You decide how far to go, but you deserve to know the truth and he has already proven that he is willing to lie to you to protect his relationship with her.

Blessings

I don't think my husband has any real feelings for this woman. I have been checking his cell phone messages because I needed to know what wsa going on. I've even asked him if she ever phones him and he says she has never contacted him personally.

As to being this woman's deacon, I've asked him to relegate her to someone else, but he demurred saying he couldn't take her in the face like that.

I've been thinking why this situation has come about and I think my husband's biggest faults (which are actually virtues if looked at by themselves) is that he's very loving, demonstrative (he will easily touch someone when speaking to them), he really likes people and is genuinely interested in them and he knows how to make them feel special.

I fear that's the real reason why this widow isn't willing to let go, she needs the affirmatiom she receives when she's in his company. I can understand these things because that's what draws him to me and I don't think I'm being selfish if I feel there must be some exclusivity in our relationship.

It's a good sign that there appears to be no contact outside of his role as a deacon.

However, what he needs to wake up and see is that his expression of his gifts of listening and empathy and service is hurting you.

Having another deacon take over the care of this woman will not prevent him from expressing these gifts to other people (couples, other men, families, etc).

She may be getting affirmation from him, but I can almost guarantee you that he's getting some emotional stroking back. He is feeling good that he is able to "help" her and could be using the excuse, "I'm doing God's work so it's alright."

I used this excuse myself with my involvement in youth ministry. I was involved in two youth ministries at different churches when the youth pastor suddenly left. This effectively left the group without a leader. My gift of leadership stepped in and I served as a lay youth minister -- doing God's work.

However, I failed to see in all of that (and, yes, I did receive positive emotions from the work I was doing) the damage I was doing to my family. Spending 4 or 5 nights a week "doing God's work" was in fact keeping me from doing my most important part of God's work -- tending to my family and the wife He gave me.

Some counseling is in order for the two of you from someone who is impartial and outside this situation. No one wants a scandal if it can be avoided and certainly you don't think there's any "hanky panky".

You need to be proactive and decisive to keep things from getting worse.

Blessings.

Hopefully you recognize this as an attempt to shift blame to you. "I thought you were strong enough to understand I must be about the Lord's work -- obviously you're not." Not that he intended it so cold and harsh as I reworded it, but the sentiment is the same.

The answer is that "We have such a strong marriage PARTNERSHIP that I feel any 'reaching out', especially to a single woman, should be done by both of us. Who better to understand a woman (her) than a woman (me)."

He threw any possibility out the window when he continued to "minister" to her behind your back after you asked him not to. Whether or not he was trying to spare your feelings by not telling you is irrelevant.



First of all -- it doesn't matter what "most men" or "most women" would think. You are his wife and it should only matter what YOU think. The line is not theirs to draw or the deacons' to draw or the other woman's to draw -- it is yours to draw and your husband stepped over it. Obviously there is a point where a wife or husband can be too restrictive, but I don't think you're asking anything unreasonable.

Secondly, I would not be comfortable if I saw a fellow Christian (deacon or not) spending an inordinate amount of time with another woman at the expense of time with his wife. Period.

The job of the deacons, in addition to visiting, is to build each other up and act as an accountability agent in each others' lives. They need to start doing their job.

If your husband can't see and appreciate the risks he's taking with your feelings, then someone from outside has to get involved to remind him of his priorities.

The emotional needs questionnaire on this site could be helpful for both of you. It sounds like you recognize his need to be stroked and adored. Is it possible he's not getting enough of this from you? Again, this is not to blame you for his actions, however, even the betrayed spouse (such as myself) in infidelity contributed to the negative marital environment that existed before the affair.

Blessings.

The reason why I asked that question is because I really want to know if his viewpoint is as radical as I think it is and that he's just using it as an excuse to continue with his thoughtless behaviour, or are there actually other men who also believe in and practise the same philosophy.

In the past I put no restrictions on my husband's behaviour concerning the opposite sex and perhaps that contributed to the problem; as he no doubt got used to being able to do as he pleased. It was only when it became obvious to me that these other ladies were lapping up his attention and that I could see their friendship becoming more intimate that I heard alarm bells ringing.

I think his need for comfort and reassurance coincided with a period when his business began to do badly and he was beginning to feel the economic pinch. What probably made it worse was that I was appointed to a better job at roughly the same time, and I think he resented that fact subconsciously. I tried to be there for him, but I think he didn't want the comfort to come from me as I was the main breadwinner for a while. He needed these other ladies who looked up to him and hung onto his every word to make him feel like a real man.

Fortunately his business has picked up since then, and we have moved on in our relationship, but he hasn't broken off all ties with this last woman and it pains me to see them together. It's quite clear that she has no intention of losing him as a close friend, so any move will have to come from him to end this friendship which he's quite clearly loathe to do.

I think you've seen some of the causes of your husband's attachment.

I have read many other posters discuss how the other person their spouse chose was clearly "inferior" to their current spouse on whom they were cheating.

In the case of a wayward husband, his "other woman" is typically not as good looking, as skilled or as successful. This isn't a rule, but a noticable trend I've read in many posts. My understanding of this is that the "other person" needs them more and they feel more valued by them.

Your husband could have been depressed about not being "the best bread winner" he could be and saw you bringing in more money. He may have unconsciously sought out a woman who "needed" him more to stroke his sense of manliness.

I honestly believe counseling would be a good thing for the two of you. If I were to bring such analysis to my wife of her affairs, she would dismiss it as jealousy and spite. Hearing it from a trusted third party who is detatched from the situation may help him believe and examine it more critically.

Fortunately it sounds like he's just getting some emotional high from all of this, but I'd caution you that while you know your husband, you may not know this other woman so well. She may make your husband the subject of some very persistant pursuit.

I believe, just my opinion, that if his involvement with her is causing any strain on your marriage, she needs to be assigned to another deacon.

You can't dismiss his insensitivity toward you as anything other than destructive behavior. I'm sure there are other men who would agree with your husband -- I'm not one of them. You are his wife and he vowed to cherish you and your love. He needs to be about that job and leave this woman to some other deacon.

Just my opinion.

Blessings.

I agree that we need some kind of counselling. What I've actually suggested to my husband and I've also spoken to our minister without telling him why, is that I would like him to do a series of sermons on marriage as well as present a seminar on the topic of marriage.

It's interesting that you should use the word 'cherish' as our previous cell group leader's wife told me that her husband felt that my husband didn't / doesn't cherish me enough and make me feel special. His feeling was that my husband was paying more than enough attention to the needs of the widows without first trying to make me feel safe and secure in our relationship.

I truly feel that a marriage seminar where the marriage partners are taught to focus on one another's needs and where one learn show to build up the relationship and where one can learn to make each other feel special is what we need now.I think our problems arose because of a lack of sensitivity on my husband's part as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable behaviour.

I'll be the first one to admit that my husband has very endearing qualities, but this past experience has shown me that he lacks insight into and understanding of what makes a truly happy relationship.

I was one of the those women who became very impatient when my female friends told me that their husbands weren't doing anything to make them happy. I always felt it wasn't your husband's responsibility to make you happy, but instead I felt you owe it to yourself to develop your full potential as a human being and to seek fulfilment in your life's task.

Now, I've come to realise that if you start to lose that closeness with your husband,and your life becomes filled with conflict and uncertainty, life becomes meaningless and empty pretty soon.

I'm sad for you that your marriage didn't work out as I can hear that you're a sensible person who has insight into and empathy with other people's pain. For my part, I can certainly empathise more with the pain of infidelity now that I've gone through this experience myself.

You've probably worked through most of the trauma and emerged stronger on the other side, even if it wasn't easy.
From my own observations and reading, I've come to the conclusion that most (or a sizable percentage of) infidelity does not arise from what the innocent spouse did or did not do; I think it comes from deep-rooted childhood insecurities and feelings of inadequacy on the part of the erring spouse. I'm just voicing my own opinion here, and have no statistics with which to back it up.

Sadly, I think many infidelities arose out of a need to fill the empty void in their hearts and a need to feel loved and wanted again; but I fear some people may have a void that's too deep to fill and recurring temporary relationships will never take their inner pain away permanently. Perhaps we all should strive to become whole again before we try to enter into loving relationships with other people, because it takes a certain amount of maturity and a certain level of spiritual growth to be able to really give love to another human being.

Sorry for rambling on like this, but I really wanted to express what's on my heart. May God bless and keep you and bring you the comfort and inner peace that we all so desperately need.and long for.

The post I sent on Friday seems to have got lost, but just one or two sober remarks: I feel as if my husband and I take two steps forward and one step backwards again. I think the reason for this is that it's hard to break old habits, my husband has become used to being very friendly towards all ladies that cross his path, and he has admitted to me that he likes women very much. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ironically enough, I never really minded previously that he looked at other women as I felt so secure in myself that no woman would actually be interested in a relationship with him (and this may sound strange, but this is how I really felt) as he isn't really handsome or extraordinary or even rich. He's just an ordinary kind-hearted , nice guy.Perhaps that's where I made a mistake because that's probably what women want in a man, someone who genuinely likes them and can make them feel good about themselves.

I have really seen how he draws women to him, and how they really seem to like him. Previously this would also not have been a problem to me but because of our recent experiences with those widows, I'm very sensitive when he speaks to other women. To his credit, my husband is trying to be more sensitive to my needs, but he will never draw away of his own accord if a woman comes to him and starts being very friendly. It's as if he doesn't realise that I may feel bad or threatened, which would never have happened before. I think when a woman wants to speak to him, the old habits kick in and he forgets to draw me in and include me. Of course, it's gratifying to have someone who likes to talk to you, so why should you ignore that chance? I fear that's what also happened in the past with those widows and I fear it may happen again as he did enjoy socialising with them.

This past weekend, I realised once again how vulnerable I am and how dependent I am on his behaving sensitively towards me. I know things will normalise in time, but for now, my ego's still very fragile and I need my husband to handle me with care.

In my opinion it's an emotional affair. In fact an affair is whatever you say it is not your husband. There's an article on this on this site in the Article section. Check it out.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8501_fft.html

CarolSusan07,

I'm so sorry you are here. I have read and took in advice for a long time. Your story reminded me of my issue. Only my husband turned his attention to a co-worker. I, as you, feel she is thought of first many times. It hurts and I have discussed emotional affair. However, I believe when men (or women) get deep into this type of relationship, they fail to see it or the hurt it causes.

I still have issues as he still works at the same place and will not leave it. I do not attend any company parties or functions as he feels it will upset him if I approach her. A good thing is you both attend church functions with this lady there, which I think is positive.

It does sound like your husband has not crossed the line of cellphone calls, hotel room, dinners, etc. except for visiting her on church business. My husband was not that considerate.

I think you have a greater chance of your church counselors helping him see the light.

Good Luck.