being honest, after i discovered the A and my H and i were in "false recovery" for about 8 months, i was trying really hard to forgive him but he just wanted me to forget it ever happened

neither one of us knew how to deal with what had happened

the worst thing is that i now realize how awful i was. there were times when i was so happy to have the chance to rebuild our marraige and there were moments when i really felt such rage at my H....there were times when i told him that i really didn't want to be married to him anymore....

and he really was trying hard. he stopped all contact with OW, and he wrote me poems, bought me flowers and beautiful cards....he really did try to make things right

he says that i destroyed the chance of us saving our marriage because i couldn't let it go....he said that he knew that i hated him for what he did and that things would never be the same...he said he could always see the pain in my eyes and that he felt too much guilt and shame when he looked at me to ever be happy with me again

and so he started contacting OW again...to feel better? to find someone who didn't think he did anything wrong? to find someone who made him feel like his was a good person again? to find someone else to spend his life with who didn't make him feel guilt and shame?

i honestly wonder if i did have my chance at reconciliation and because of my anger and pain, i made my H believe that i hated him too much for us to ever be happy together again

he did say that many times after he left....he said "you hated me!" and "i know that i ruined our marraige because what i did made you hate me"

he doesn't know anything about how hard it is for the BS....he really believed that if i loved him i should have let it go

he said to me more than once before he started seeing OW again "you've got to let this go or you will destroy us. I want to move on with our lives and you keep dragging us back to all of the pain"

i guess that a deep fear i have is that he believes that he rally tried and i couldn't forgive him...so he'd never try again

I am hoping things go well, for instance the past two nights my kids 6/9/11 didn't get to bed past 9:40 - they get up at 6:30 for school. Last night it was because she didn't pick them up until 9:20 from work. She WILL NOT allow them to stay the night, except when she goes off on her affair weekends or my every other weekend. Now I am caught in a catch 22 in our LSA that is why I am going to court, to get better visitation, I am hoping to get primaray, I have the evidence to get it but its up to the judge.

In my heart i have fovgiven her, its the fact in her actions that she hasn't changed or willing to change that makes me angery.

I fear that she will never be able to come back, she has never come back to any friednship that she destroyed, and she has destroyed all of them that she has had.

My pastor who knows us well, said it perfectly. My WW has never had a friendship longer than 2 years with anyone, before she destroy's it. With lieing and manipulation, even her current friends are close to her and are starting to fall off the side and now she has started new friendships up with people that don't know what she has done... so the cycle continues

eav,

I really wonder about that. From all I have seen it is apparent to me that waywards latch on to excuses as to why they began the affair, why they won't break it off, and why they won't work on the marriage. When they find an excuse that eases their guilt, they work it.

Maybe your husband really believes that your marriage can't be saved because of the damage done, which is why a Plan B letter should always mention that you are open to the possibility of reconciliation if and when the affair stops.

But there is probably an equal chance that this is nothing more than his excuse for continuing the affair. You say he stopped for a while, but others have stopped and found themselves drawn back to the OP. Have you seen how many folks here have endured false recoveries?

Viking,

If what you say about your wife is true, then it seems there are two ways to approach the problem with your relationship:

1. You are better off without this kind of person in your life. She has serious character flaws that will lead her to continuous problems in relationships in the future. End it, and try to clean up the mess as much as possible by minimizing the impact on your children and reducing contact with her to the bare legal minimum.

OR

2. Stick it out; find a counselor or psychiatrist who can get to the source of her problem and find a solution. Maybe you can be that one special person in her life that turns it all around and stands by her, creating the kind of stability she needs.

Bump for HS

Here is a quote from an article by Dr. Pittman in Psychology Today:

People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born--any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.

WOW! My FWH was definitely dealing with a number of life crises and began his relationship with the FOW in order to ESCAPE REALITY. He initially was trying to HAVE FUN and fell "in love" or WHATEVER.

Is this telling us that we need to INDULGE IN ESCAPISM with our spouses during stressful times rather than staying caught up in the DULDRUMS of life?

Since all of this occurred, I certainly have learned the IMPORTANCE of JUST HAVING FUN.....

I truly believe this is what happened to my WH.

We were having issues with our DD, he couldn't deal with it, and went to OW to escape the home life.

I think Pittman is explaining that certain times in our lives, when we are involved in a crisis either real or imagined, we are more vulnerable to having an affair when the opportunity presents itself.

In my wife's case, there were several issues that may have contributed to her having an affair. She was concerned about her genetic predisposition for breast cancer after a consultation with a geneticist. Her oldest child (my stepdaughter) was leaving for college. Her grandparents were in poor health. Our 17 year-old stepson was involved in some scrapes with the law. And she was getting ready to start a whole new job with a big step up in responsibility. All of these things occurred around the time of the affair.

And, of course, opportunity. The OM was basically working in our front yard.

Is it escapism? Most definitely. How do you keep it from happening? The only thing I can think of is be especially alert at staying "in touch" with your spouse during times of crisis. Be aware that your spouse might perceive something to be of crisis proportions even when you do not.

Hiker, I haven't found the posts on your situation. Are you getting divorced?

And thanks for all the great information. Seems like you spent a lot of time learning this stuff inside and out. Are you a doctor?

No, not a doctor. Just a guy who took a hit and is trying to get back on his feet again.

Divorce? Probably. I don't see any end to the affair. You can't save the marriage if the affair doesn't end.

I think and its unfortunate, if what we say is part of the problem with a Romantic Affair that dealing with reality is part of the root of the problem then our pressure to save the marriage is rooted in reality and thus is why RA's are the hardest to end. I think similiarly as Hiker does, the marriage will end in divorce, I will not go quitely into the night I will make it known and I will protect my children to the end.... this will push reality on her and she will most likely flee.... the kids growing up and being able to surpass her maturity level will also bringing pressure. How many young kids that don't understand what is going on eventually do and eventually turn against the W ayward parent.... I see this already in my own.

This is why again the RA is the most damaging to the marriage, to the spouses, to the kids and mostly everyone involved.

Its then comes down to our choice to either accept it, attack it or wait for it to pass.

If only I hadn't been in hospital getting my Crohn's diagnosis, whilst WXH and OW ran off to begin their affair in Barcelona. How selfish of me.

I think that during times of stress and dispair, it is perfectly acceptable for the person who is suffering to well, suffer! What is not acceptable is for their spouse to mumble and grumble about their needs not being met, and then run off and have an affair.

Good grief! Where is the perspective here? I thought I was dying of cancer, and he is off scr*wing someone else because he is under stress?


But why? WHY? He came back from that school trip with the OW, and after finding out my diagnosis never once asked me about my illness, or how I was feeling - he was already in love with the OW, and less than a year later he was gone. He had been so concerned about me before he left on that trip.

I'm sorry. Mimi, Hiker, everyone - sorry. This still upsets me so much. It just doesn't make any sense.

Alph.

Alph,

You're right, it doesn't make any sense. Pittman says the whole romantic affair thing resembles insanity to the outsiders. It only makes sense to the cheaters.

They're driven by emotion, not by reason. They get their fix from brain chemistry.

Hiker,

Does Pittman say that RA's will end, when, how etc?

As you, I don't see any end in sight. WH and OW are still living together. 7 mos. now. Her D was final a few weeks ago.

As you said...can't save a M while A is going strong.

WH still hasn't admitted he's even in an A!

((((Alphin))))

I don't in any way blame myself nor should you for your WH's RA.

I think the CRISES were the precipitating factor...

But it was my WH's IMMORAL (and a host of other BAD ADJECTIVES) DECISION to deal with his problems in such a COWARDLY AND SHAMEFUL WAY...YUCK....

What he did was WRONG and what your H did was WRONG and TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE...

And Catgirl:

My WH's RA affair ended after 2 years when I discovered it.

D-Day started the process of breaking down the FANTASY ASPECT of it.

It took PLAN B for him to fully come to grips with the REALITY of it.

We are VERY HAPPY now in a RECOVERY which has lasted over 3 years with my FWH taking EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS because he was HIGHLY ADDICTED to her....

I think it is KEY for you to EXPOSE the A...by catching him in the act..so that he can't DENY it to YOU...

The secretiveness of it is part of the ROMANTIC ASPECT....with them in their OWN LITTLE WORLD....YUCK....

Dr. Pittman's statistics about the end of romantic affairs are about the same as Dr. Harley's.

In his practice, he observed that most affairs end but he doesn't give numbers. He also says that five years after an affair, most people are back with their spouses.

But here are a couple of observations:

1. Dr. Pittman's observations are about his own patients. Obviously these are people seeking counseling. Dr. Harley's 85% figure of marriages that do not end in divorce as the result of an affair reflects only those people who seek counseling. There are probably quite a few couples who are torn asunder by infidelity who never do get counseling.

2. If 95 percent of all affairs end without the cheaters getting married, and 5% marry but only 25% of those are still married after 5 years, then only a little over 1 out of a hundred cheating couples have marriages that last longer than 5 years. Not very good odds for the cheaters.

3. The end of the affair doesn't necessarily mean reconciliation for the WS and BS. It looks as though the longer the affair, the less likely the chances for reconciliation.

4. Post-affair interviews with nearly all former cheaters whose marriage ended as a result of their infidelity regret the loss of their marriage (Glass 1987).

5. Seven out of ten divorcees (who have not remarried) of all kinds believe they were happier with their former spouse.

It has been a long time since I posted here. My W is involved in an RA with my cousin. It's a long distance mostly internet based A with no realistic future. Yet it has been ongoing for 10 months. W has not made any progress in adjusting reality to match her emotional reality (she has done nothing to become independent enough to move on - like she's waiting to be picked up and rescued). It's pretty clear that without the apparent "suffering" the affair holds little power - there needs to be a relationship to demonize in order to halo the affair.

Will it end? I don't know - I think that as long as the consequences of the affair are less painful than the self-imposed pain of real life, or the perceived fall-out from the affair, there's little motivation (especially when the high seems to be better than anything that ever existed in "real life"). There was no hesitation acting counter to all the societal taboos of having this sort of relationship with family (how many healthy women would want to have sexual relations with their son's blood relative that wasn't his father?), and this was before actual bonding took place. Now that the bonding has occurred, both of them convinced of the tortured romantic fantasy love that would make them sacrifice everything they worked in life to build, I don't think they will come to this decision on their own without some other strong draw. Maybe my cousin will have an affair on his affair partner with someone he can actually see!

Pressure hasn't helped much. It's been exposed and there's been little to no progress in popping the fantasy bubble. It just seems to feed into the logic of "they just don't want us to be together" or "see how much I love you that I'm willing to live with the stigma and ruin my relationship with these people?" It's truly sad. And the converse reality is that the marriage has become its own fantasy-nightmare of my W's making, where my WW sees me harming her, being mean and hurtful even though I am nothing but kind. I have addressed all sorts of issues I may have, and I'm thankful that I have had this opportunity, but it seems fruitless. She sees what she wants to see. Facts are interpreted as they suit her. It's so easy to get swept away in all the information there is out there - for instance, the fact that negative perceptions (whether real or imagined) that you dwell on leave lasting imprints on your brain, so the damage my W is doing to the me that she sees is lasting and real and she will never see me the way she used to, even if she does decide to give things a try again. This is one of if not the worst betrayal of all in this whole thing.

The trouble in my situation is that these two live in different countries. They can't be together, really, at all. It's not going to happen and this precludes the burnout that they would no doubt have if they were to realize the relationship by living together. So I just live and be the best dad I can be, and the best person I can, bettering myself and learning about myself and relationships never really sure where this will all end up, or if I'll even want to be with this woman in the end. I know, "in sickness and in health" but if she doesn't acknowledge her sickness - if she continues to view this (and have her feelings and thoughts on this subject validated by people close to her) as exploring and finding herself - a genuine part of herself that she won't regret or turn her back on, then she'll have incorporated this into her character. She'll have chosen to be a WW for life and will never participate in an equal relationship that she needs to work at.

I guess I have just as many questions as everyone else here (none that anything but time can answer), and a few somewhat pessimistic opinions about the outcome. I intend to maintain my positive outlook, protect my family to the best of my ability and make this a productive time for me. If I manage to hold the family together until my WW gets her act together and she chooses to work at herself and make our marriage work, then great. If not, then I will know I tried my best and will have made progress in myself that I won't regret. For me it's all about letting go - letting go of pain, control, anger, expectation and just doing what needs to be done. It certainly won't change my W's mind about me while the A is ongoing, but at some point when she turns around and stops running she may see the genuine, honest, loving, good man that I am and that I never stopped being and recognize how much damage she did in altering her emotional reality.

Yea...I think actually moving in with the FOW was the nail on the coffin of my H's A. He got to see her for what she REALLY was and got in touch with what he REALLY was doing...

Muddled, is there any way that you can arrange for you WW to go be with him? That's what the guy did in Surviving an Affair...helped his wife move out to be with the OM...

I'm speaking of PLAN B...