Thank you!

I want to thank all my friends here who have taken the time to HELP me sort out my marital problems.

I am very much indebted to all of you, for helping me to see up, down, left, right and through the middle.

You have taken time out of your lives to help others. That gives me goose bumps!

God bless you all!

Observing, thank you for your kind words. I don't remember how long you have been married, but how have you dealt with this type of behavior for so many years? I don't think I can tolerate years of it. My husband and I had a blowup today over the phone and this topic came up. He said he was working on it, trying to change. While I recognize that he is, I am also angry that he has to work on it! I have a very strong sex drive (stronger than my husband's), and don't gawk at other men all the time. My hubby is in the Army, I love men in uniform and was a big looker before we got together, but not now even with all of the potential eye candy all over the place on base. To me, if he truly loved me and I was the love of his life, he would not seek out other women. I understand your pain. Yes, this behavior makes me very distrustful of him as it has for you with your husband. He said his first wife taught him this behavior. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The same woman he caught in bed with another man, and after he took her back she cheated on him yet again after he left for Korea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> He also made the mistake of saying until she taught him, he never looked at or thought about other women because he was so into her. Yes, that makes me feel great. And, I am not ugly, I've had plenty of men look at me and can still remember the first night we went out (he kept staring at me and telling me how pretty he thought I was). I hope things get better for you.

Madea,


We have been married for just over 23 years now. It has only been the last 6 months that everything has changed for me. Before that, my husband was always what I "believed" he was. Reality came to the rescue.

I do see God's hand in the timing. My children are very well established in their happy lives. They know who they are and where they are going. Their happiness and good behavior has inspired and helped me to survive the last few months of realization.


Blindly, I guess. We married on what I understood to be Christian trust and fidelity and so I trusted him completely, UNTIL he got noticeably worse recently.

The ONLY way I could get through it, and I say this from the bottom of my heart, was to pray that the PAIN of his IMPURITY against me be used by God to bring PURITY to our family.

It was not an easy prayer to get through. It was more like breaking out into a sweat. At least the problem didn't seem to happen often (or so I thought), until recently.

In the early years, I thought that it was only human (a man thing) and that I should look at the bigger picture. After all, he chose ME for his wife, didn't he?

But now that I look back, the first time it happened was one of the worst (blatant) and I should have done more about it (counseling).

If you don't mind, I'm going to have a little fun explaining the first time:

We had gone to a park at the lake for a family picnic with our small children. Another couple showed up and set up a picnic blanket right beside us (a little too close for me actually).

The woman began shedding her clothes until she ended up with hardly anything on (called a swimsuit), while I sat there coolly dressed like a young wife and mother.

My husband got up from where he was sitting (next to me on the other side), and found a position on a nearby log in front of me to seat himself so that he could have FULL VIEW of her nearly naked body (and me if necessary).

I felt VERY uncomfortable at the move he made. Why leave my side and sit there, facing her?

Next, he was staring at her and had this strange smile on his face. I was AGHAST!

I tried to get his attention, but to no avail.

And then adrenaline SHOT through me like HOT FIRE.

I just about grabbed the nearest semblance of a bulky pillow or rolled up blanket and THREW it in his face to knock some sense into him, break up the stare and show him how disrespectful he was being to his wife.

Lucky for him, I maintained control and didn't.

How I wish I had DONE IT to this day!

Actually, I could have jumped to my feet, took a huge swing with a bulky pillow or rolled up blanket, knocked him over the stump and onto his back and had myself a very good laugh.

That is, if he wasn't quick enough (he couldn't have been with such a stare) to grab the armor from me and start a huge fight.

We have never struck each other, so I still don't know what the potential could have been.

All I know is that he gave me ALL the energy I ever needed to DOWN HIM in a single second if I WANTED to – no matter what his stature.

Quite the scene it could have been, I'm sure!

I thought to myself. Oh! He must feel so comfortable with me as his FRIEND that he has no problem betraying me as his wife RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE. I had never had anything like that happen to me before.

I asked to go home.

When I confronted him on the way home with what he was doing, he adamantly denied it. I got MAD. I knew he was lying and he had the nerve to think I was so stupid. I accused him of Adultery of the Heart, but he claimed that he didn't WANT her so he wasn't guilty.

And the rest is history.


Thank you and the same to you!

Manure hit the fan today.

My husband had been losing sleep and wanted to talk about the last couple weeks.

He's going to call Dr. Harley next week.

We need a moderator now.

Apparently, it's going to take a "subpoena" to get information on the incoming calls from his cell phone company.

Even though the arrival of the official cell phone records put our SF on hold for the last couple weeks, it wasn't until today that we agreed to TIME OUT on our relationship.

I've been thinking about something my husband said yesterday:

When specifying how important the cell phone records are, he said something to the effect that they could be the "beginning or the end of our relationship".

What? If he is innocent, how could they be the "end" of our relationship?

Also, by saying this, he seemed to confirm to me what he understands to be the consequences of possible evidence found against him.

Was he testing my response? I didn't respond to it, I just listened.

To compound the issue (huge stress factor for him), he faces possible exposure to his relatives or at least could build their suspicions when trying to obtain the complete records.

The ball is now in his court.

THIS MORNING:

Here I thought he would look at me like a sad puppy, but no such thing.

Instead, he has given me the COLD shoulder. The way he's acting, you'd think he was willing to FREEZE to death before changing his heart.

I think I fell into his trap yesterday. When he asked to talk, I had my guards down and forgot to rephrase everything he said with questions so as to steer away from excuses, blaming and confusion.

Somehow I blurted out that he could "Go ahead and have her. Go ahead and have all the others. But leave me alone".

I meant to say that he can go after what he wants, I can't stop him, but he should leave me out of that equation because I don't want to be used by him in the process.

I think he is now using that statement against me, that is, I am at fault in our marriage because I have pushed him away, and therefore he will stay away.

He wouldn't walk into the Church with me this morning, keeping an obvious distance behind me. He wouldn't sit with me during lunch afterwards.

Actually, I'm not sure this is too far out of character for him. His worst mood of the week is ALWAYS on Sunday, when we spend time together as a family.

THIS EVENING:

By the evening (and after a much needed nap), he was calm, cordial and willing to agree on our plans for the week (call Steve Harley, get complete phone records, keep relationship "on hold").

During this conversation, it occurred to me (but I didn't tell him) that there IS A WAY we could resume sexual relations if I find closure with the phone records: every time he hurts me with his lustful behavior, I can set aside 1 week for abstinence.

This gives our relationship a chance to grow, but he doesn't get away with hurting me. It wouldn't be hard for me to keep a fair log (add 1 week for every painful offense). Then we BOTH suffer. Not just me. That's something I might be able to live with.

He'll have to weigh the offense against the consequences of doing it - every time. Eventually, he'll have to break the habit because it just won't be worth it.

And for me, I can take out my PDA and add the offense which will help me deal with it in real-time without having to say a word (he can read about it later if he wants to).

Ultimately, he spends LESS time in purgatory. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Observing,

Why is it so hard to get the phone records? Is he the one making it difficult, or is the company he works for making it difficult, or what?

Is he resentful that you are pushing the issue of the phone records - has he suggested you drop it?

Take care...

He's pacing the house.

Not looking forward to tomorrow.

Lots on his mind.

Fiatflux,

Thanks for stopping by.


What's making it difficult is that the phone company requires a subpoena (absolutely ridiculous, I think) to find "number" information on the INCOMING calls.

If my husband has to go through the effort of getting a subpoena to get these numbers, then his gossiping relatives will want to know WHY.

He has to figure out a good story for them, but at the same time satisfy his wife.

Can be challenging, I guess.


No, he seems to be very understanding of why I want them.

However, he can be very stubborn about having to do "uncomfortable" things, as I didn't hear that he had called the phone company until he had lost a couple nights sleep over it.

Well, it sure doesn't seem like you are dealing with a wayward spouse in the usual sense, given how forthcoming he is with things like this.

I can certainly see why his wandering eyes hurt you so much, though, given your descriptions of how he does it so overtly to the point where it almost seems like an addiction for him.

I love reading your thread...I admire how you are working so hard to save your marriage and I think there is a lot of hope here. I hope to eventually put that kind of energy into my marriage (I'm sorry to admit that I am a FWW...but we both swept it under the rug 9 yrs ago & our marriage needs work).

Fiatflux,

I may have answered one of your previous questions too hastily.


After going to bed last night I remembered one of the reasons why my husband wanted to call for counseling. He wanted to get a PROFESSIONAL opinion on whether or not he should pursue the complete phone records.

I had brushed it off in my mind at the time because I knew that a good counselor would recommend that a husband give his wife the peace of mind she needs to end the suspicions.

I guess I could consider that STALLING. But would it be because of the effort a subpoena requires? Or are the records themselves being dodged?

He did hint that "other" suspicions could come up after receiving complete phone records, so maybe the phone records wouldn't do all that much good anyway. Was that an excuse?

It's possible the delay is for practical reasons. But what if it is not?

So I'll just wait it out. The records will do the talking.


Thank you for appreciating my struggle. It really means a lot to be able to come here and vent or think out loud and have people like you listen to me at a time when I need it.


I think you're right. Every time I feel like throwing in the towel (emotionally), my husband seems to notice my efforts, changes something in his behavior and I can see it working again.


I think it's great to have a community of both Betrayed and Wayward spouses on this forum helping each other find their way in their marriages. Getting second opinions and seeing things from another point of view must really help to sort it all out.

I know for me, I like to be thorough and when I read comments or questions by others, I keep those thoughts in the back of my mind for the future when it's time to "let go" of my own suspicions. Because of the generous contributions by people like you, my conclusion will NOT be a BLIND one.

I have watched (read) other spouses get tremendous support on this forum while trying to handle their marital crisis. I hope you and your husband are able to find that same support (and growth) here too.

Guess what?

Plan AF (As Friends) is very EFFECTIVE, and in short order!

A few days of that plan, and my husband was confiding in me how much he has taken for GRANTED something as simple as kissing me on the lips.

That's not the only thing he has taken for granted. He explained other things too. He was right. I won't go into details.

I could feel and hear his sincerity. I could tell he WANTED me for the right reasons.

He admitted he was having a hard time keeping our relationship "on hold". I admitted the same.

I gave in.

What contributed to my reasoning was that I had filled out the personality and relationship forms for Steve Harley yesterday, as we prepare for tomorrow's counseling session, and in doing so, contemplated the good things that we do have going for us - even in the midst of our problems.

What may have contributed to my husband's appreciation of me was that he, on his own initiative, finished reading Dr. Harley's chapter on sex. Then he said he really wished he would have read that chapter 23 years ago. What an eye opener for him.

So what's holding us back?

We'll soon find out (counseling).

My husband's back to his deflated hugs and empty kisses.

Why? There's NO room in his heart for me. It's just plain too CROWDED there.

He doesn't know that I now have evidence to prove to myself that he hasn't been "just looking", he's been down right HUNTING on a daily, hourly and minute basis, and he's been more of a liar (probably out of Passive/Aggressive fear) than I thought he was.

At least now I know WHY I don't have a place in his heart.

I AM sane. I have NOT been imagining things.

I just want other women to know that if they are like me and have known in their heart that something is NOT right, they can rely on their heart, because their heart WILL be right.

What happened to change everything so quickly?

Believer,

Thanks for your concern.

I have my hands tied right now. The information I just acquired is general. I can't explain anymore details if I want to keep this thread anonymous and at the same time obtain more specific information. This could take a few weeks or more.

I'm so sorry about that.

Here's somewhat of an update...

Good news:

Remember the underwear with the cat hairs in it? I finally sent it in for infidelity testing and the results came back negative.

Bad news:

Last night, I visited my husband's computer. While in his office, I decided to check his office drawers. I found some Valentine heart candies (few small containers) in one of his drawers. They didn't come from me. I know the women in the office like giving him things all the time (ladies man that he is). But does he have to put it in his office drawer?

Other news:

I found some other things in his office drawers:

1. A photo of me that he used to have on his shelf but won't put back because he says it's outdated. Well, that must mean the wedding photo in our bedroom is outdated too, but I haven't taken that down.

2. A rather large (and still full) box of Green Tea that I asked him to take out of the house since I couldn't understand why he brought it in when he doesn't even drink tea and I don't drink Green Tea.

Then this morning I get an email from him requesting the replacement photo of us for his office. I feel like he is doing that just because the romantic photos had become such a volatile issue (before Christmas).

Personally, the photo makes me sad now. I'll always remember how he didn't like it when it came in, yet it was one of my lifetime favorites. I would just rather not see it anymore and be reminded of the void in our relationship.

Also, I noticed that my husband appears to be speaking "differently" to one of his secretaries.

Normally, and as a business phone practice, he frequently speaks the caller's name during the conversation. Therefore, I always know who he is speaking with when I'm present. He doesn't do that with me as I am a personal caller.

Recently, I overheard the "too friendly" voice of one of his secretaries during a phone call to him, but he never mentioned her name during the phone call and so I asked who it was. Ever since, I've wondered if there could be an EA developing with this particular secretary.

I want to talk about the Valentine candies, the Green Tea and even boundary issues regarding one of his secretaries because my husband's going to notice that I'm bothered about something.

But Steve Harley wants me to leave the relationship building to him (Steve) and just encourage my husband with any progress that he makes.

By the way, my husband really enjoys working with Steve. Steve seems to be doing a great job.

So here I am sharing what's going on so that I can be at my best for my husband even though I have things on my mind.

Thanks for listening.

Straight from my Phone/PDA...

Back to Plan AF (As Friends).

Steve was making PROGRESS with my husband.

But once my husband realized that the phone records are important, he put our sessions with Steve and our relationship on hold until the phone issue is resolved, which could take months.

Here's what happened...

Yesterday, after his phone call with Steve, my husband came home with some of the missing phone records.

Apparently, they were sitting on his desk for well over a week even though he knew I wanted them as soon as possible.

He is unaware that I know he had the nerve to tell Steve that I didn't ask for the (follow up) records and that's why he hasn't been working on giving them to me.

Steve advised him to talk to me about the records and to have me bring up the records during my next phone call with Steve since their session time had run out.

I guess that's why my husband brought home the records that were sitting on his desk.

No wonder I have a problem trusting my husband.

My biggest challenge is trying to figure out whether this is Passive/Aggressive or Adultery behavior.

My husband also informed Steve that he was completely in love with me.

However, today my husband is acting like I have leprosy and is keeping his distance.

It was my husband's strong opinion that we put the coaching on hold.

I think it's foolish and proves that he doesn't want to partake in loving me while he works to help me find closure.

I did like it when my husband brought up the 2 things that Steve wanted him to talk to me about.

I felt like he was beginning to be Open & Honest with me.

Well, that was short-lived.

I found a few minutes, while on the road, to fill in the details of my last (Phone/PDA) post.

Also, I wanted to comment on the Valentine candies found in my husband's office drawer.

We talked about it last night. He said the candies came from his secretary. I figured that.

But this is not the secretary that was going to go on a day trip with him or the secretary that speaks "too friendly" on the phone to him. This is another secretary.

He said that it was just sloppy behavior on his part to have kept the Valentine candies in his drawer.

He just didn't want to hurt his secretary's feelings since she is the one who empties his wastebasket.

That was sloppy behavior alright. He chose to protect his secretary's feelings over his wife's feelings.

Yup. That's to be expected. Doesn't matter if it's with employees or relatives. Wife comes last.

We talked about protecting our marriage and respecting boundaries.

I think that's when he began to not be interested. I dropped it.

Here are more bits and pieces from the road...

My husband appears to be warming up today. Or was that because we had visited with a friend while working on a project?

I hope he's going to let me know whether or not he completed the cancellation of my appointment with Steve tomorrow morning and our joint session next week.

I didn't receive a text message, email message or anything in person from my husband before we began traveling today, but I know he contacted Steve about it this morning.

I do want to say that while working with Steve, my husband seemed to be sincere in working on a strategy.

I made a point to patiently listen to my husband and compliment him on his strategy even though it contained some disturbing details for me personally.

I hope he's not going to put his strategy on hold too.

Why can't Observing get more input from you veterans? Is it because her case is so un-cookie-cutter-like? Does it have to be a clear-cut case of adultery for people to help? What's up with this? I think she would welcome some insights...I wish some of the overabundance of energy on LilSis' thread could be transferred over here...! LilSis needs a break from y'all anyway! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />