FF-

I think that Observing isn't getting a lot of help because there really isn't much more anyone can offer on her situation. I've posted my thoughts on this thread...that she's either married to one of the best cover up artists this side of a spy that I've seen, or that this isn't tied to actually infidelity, but other underlying issues in their marriage.

It's clear that there are some major issues in Observering's marital situation...no argument there. But at this point, I don't know what advice to offer, given the pages of information she's provided on her efforts to find an affair and still no 'proof'. I suspect that the 'real' experts are just as baffled.

Observring, I'm curious...based on what you've seen/done up to this point...how do YOU see this working out? Remember my question about what "proof" you need to decide finally if there is an affair or not? Where does that factor into this?

It seems that you're still convinced that he IS engaged in an affair...but still have no true PROOF.

So what steps do YOU see should happen if you can't get that proof? What's your gameplan if you never get that proof? What changes do you think will have to happen for you to be comfortable in your marriage?

Again, not judging here...but if you can't prove it, then you're going to have to make a choice at some point to pick a plan of action for dealing with the state of your marriage without that proof.

I appreciate your input, Owl.

And I certainly understand how hard it is for others to give me advice without having "proof" to stand on.

I have felt that my friends here at MB have been waiting, like me, to see if there is proof, before voicing important advice.

I have noticed that everyone here has been very objective about it. That's to be admired and gives more credibility to the members.

I also like to see this thread as a journal, which can be used for documentation or for just plain SANITY purposes when necessary.

Yes, I like getting replies, as Fiatflux suggested, but I also realize that replies may or may not come every time I have (so many) thoughts to share.

Right now, I am just going through the motions.

That is, I would like to see my husband's complete phone records so that I never have to look back and wonder IF there was something that I missed.

The problem right now has been his OBSTINATE behavior over the records (and other things).

It was not enough for him that I had feelings and needed reassurance from him. He had to get a professional OPINION before even giving me the batch of records that was already available on his desk.

This kind of game playing doesn't help me to drop the suspicions. I think it increases them.

Otherwise, I am getting closer to living with a husband that has curbed his lustful appetite in front of his wife.

I think I can live with his behavior if I keep a log (as explained in an earlier post): every time he hurts me with his lustful behavior, I can log a week of abstinence for both of us.

This seems to be a better plan than expecting him to completely break the habit in the near future.

What's more, this plan doesn't leave ME with all the pain.

I think there should be consequences for his actions or I am going to end up with another Sexual Aversion toward him.

I want to maintain my self respect.

I don't like it when he invalidates my feelings. For example, he told Steve that he thought I was "more sensitive" than the average woman on this issue.

That's an EXCUSE.

What he's forgetting is that I let his lustful behavior ROLL OFF MY BACK for 23 years. But it got WORSE, not better, and to the point that I thought he was having an Affair.

Right now, I still think that he COULD have had or is having multiple Emotional Affairs. That is the latest suspicion that I have to work through.

He adamantly denies it.

But his strategy, even though he didn't think he would be sharing it with me when he wrote it, clearly shows that he could have been relying on particular women or certain occasions to fulfill his habit.

I think a good understanding of marriage boundaries will help him with this. But I can't be the one to help him. He'll need to hear it from Steve, or read it out of a book.

So once I get the complete phone records, I can sort through them and find closure with that.

But see how much effort it has taken to get those? Any wife in her right mind would wonder why the struggle.

I did finally take Lousy Golfer's advice and asked my husband what he found attractive about a particular woman.

My husband said "I don't know" and that he would have to think about it and get back with me later.

Then hardly a minute later, he said "I don't want to talk about that" and outright REFUSED to talk about it at all or at anytime.

But if he really wanted to be Open & Honest with me, to help me build trust in him again, I would think he would TELL ALL. Otherwise, how will I know whether or not he is being honest with me?

All in all, if I don't find proof with the phone records, I will assume that he was PLAYING WITH FIRE on the slippery slope of Emotional Affairs, but probably didn't burn his fingers, and that with good protection in place for our marriage, we can work it out.

Then I will go back to reading about Passive/Aggressive behavior.

Thanks for asking.

Observing,

I'm not very familar with your whole thread and I am by no means an expert. Have you thought about hiring a PI?
Although my WH is having his 2nd affair... he made me feel like I was going crazy last summer. The PI had info for me in 3-4 days with pictures. It was the best 500.00 dollars I spent it hurt like ****** to find out but also gave me peace of mind that I could trust my gut.

Just an idea.

Still

Stillhurting01,

Hi there, and thanks for stopping by.

Oh! I really should hire a Private Investigator (PI), shouldn't I?

I've been running back and forth to his computer so much, trying to get the keylogger to work correctly again, that I haven't had time to think about a PI.

I did manage to upgrade my digital voice recorder (the last one failed me on the battery length), and it has helped me know more TRUTH about what's going on in my husband's mind.

The snooping that I have done successfully has been invaluable for my peace of mind. I wonder how a PI could contribute. I'd almost need the PI to show up at my husband's work place.

I am so HAPPY that you found the information you needed on your husband. I am SO SORRY that it was another Affair and the evidence was so painful for you.

Yes, a PI is a very good idea!

Did you have your husband watched at work, on a trip or what? What is your recommendation on WHEN to have the PI watch him?

Isn't it amazing how a husband can make you feel so crazy? That should be a suspicion in itself!

Observing are you ready for a novel?

Let me tell you about last spring and summer. I apoligise in advance for the length.

I have come to rely on my gut feelings after my husbands first affair. I did a lot of detective work on my own for that one. I wa able to find out her name where she worked and lived. I actually was pretty good at it. Look at phone and cell phone bills. He really wasn't a pro at cheating it was very easy to find.

Fast forward to last year. I began to get the awful feeling in my gut again. Asked if there was someone else he denied. Had always said I won't go through that again so please be truthful.
When the May bill came in for our cell phone family plan I notice we were billed for 150 text messages.... this was something we never had on our plan. I thought it was our younger DD texting her BF... she was going out the door with oldest DD and I said D what's with all the TM's. Older DD came and looked at the bill and said mom that's not D that's daddy.

I called WH on his way to work and asked him about it and he just said it's how people at work get a hold of him and he wouldn't do it anymore. My detective bells started going off. That weekend was father's day and he was running a softball tournament. Monday he was still in bed and I checked his cell and there were 2 sent messages to the same # saying call me on Sat and Sun that past weekend. I went to our provider and asked for the TM printout. I knew I couldn't get what was being texted but I could get the number. They called the home office and the woman gets back on the phone and told me they were all to the same # and she read off the same #. I thought my knees were going to buckle.
On my way home I called WH and demanded to know who the he!! was she. He said it was someone from work... I tols him he better tell me who. He didn't want me to say anything to her. I said just tell me who. He did and said those famous words... we're just friends. She is having problems with the girls at work....(me) do you think it's cause she F***ing the boss. My language was not the best. She's having problems with her H... (me) she should be talking to her H not you. I mentioned it sounded like it was becoming an emotional affair. He said it would stop.
That day I ordered the printout and bought a voice activated recorder to put in his truck. I'm not very mecahnical and ould never get it to work. I hid it because he came into the bedroom and I was trying to figure it out.
He was leaving in the mornings coming home late and after getting home he would have to run out and get gas. He was showing all the signs he did with his previous A.
I looked in the phone book and found out where she lived with her H. Just about a mile from us. And began to check up to see if I could see her. I have met her once when she first started working for my H because she lived in our town. One morning I left right after he did and went to get coffee at DD and noticed she was also gone.... she had no reason to go to work early my H was going in early to get to his e-mails. ( I can feel the anxiety coming back from that time). I thought should I.... so I drove down and his car wasn't there and neither was hers. I lost it and called my mom and went to the other side of the parking lot. Twenty minutes later my WH drives in and she is right behind him. My mom kept telling me don't confront them remeber the lady who ran over her H.
That night I asked him about it... I got now you're following me. It was just a coincidence. I asked if her H was aware of all the calls, TM's and the coincidence of arriving at work early? He was cool as a cucumber. It's amazing how lying becomes second nature.
That's when I hired the PI... I knew her name, where she worked her car and license plate number.
That following day the PI was at the parking lot.... guess what she was right behind him again. Two days later I asked if he could follow him from my house. There is a small restaruant by my house that is open that early that H has to drive by. The next day they were going to follow him. I wished so much that I was wrong. The call came when I was at my DD soccer game... they were meeting at a boat landing on the way to work. She was waiting for him. They got pictures and they were there about 30 minutes and when she left the vehicle she was adjusting her clothes. That afternoon got the pictures and expose to OWH and their employer.

If you want more of the drama I can fill you in. Oh yeah and about the recorder WH found it. Sent me a nasty e-mail that I recorded 6 hours of him and where did I put. I didn't even realise it was on. He must of been panicking.. the only thing that would be recorded if my panties were getting it on. He listened to 6 hours of nothing.

Still

Yes, Stillhurting01, please share more of your drama. I want to learn as much as I can. Thank you!

If looks could kill, I'd be dead.

After my husband came home from work tonight, I complimented him on the success he had with finding an attorney, being able to get phone records from the company within 3 months and getting pricing for changing phone companies and phones.

Apparently, he didn't think it was a success even though he had emailed me the information as though it was progress.

So I questioned him on why this success for me was not a success for him.

He glared at me like never before and grumbled something about the cost (which is absolutely NOTHING compared to what I've spent on spy tools).

I'm sick over the way he looked at me. I left the room, thinking there's no way he's going to win my heart with that kind of behavior.

I can't post again until Friday. Leaving with the kids tomorrow. Have to add fresh batteries to the vehicle tracker and the voice recorder tonight, because he's going out of town (attorney) too.

observing,

Just checking in with you this morning. I'll share more of my story but like I told you previously it's not a success story.....YET.

Need to run off to IC. Have a great day.

Still

Stillhurting01,


I understand.

And I hope your situation becomes a success story.

After listening to part of your story, I'm thinking maybe I should put a spy camera in the main office to see how my husband interacts with his "too friendly" secretary.

Things I would be looking for are winks from him, or a touch on the shoulder, things like that.

I feel like he could easily carry on an Emotional Affair with a secretary because he wouldn't have to use his phone or computer to communicate.

He would only need to have a meeting or drop a note on her desk.

That's how my father did it.

My mother told me that one day she and my father found a note from his secretary on the windshield of his car that was parked in his workplace parking lot.

She said she knew by his reaction and what the note said that something was happening between the two of them.

I never found out if it had become physical or not, but I think it ended after that note.

I knew my mother was onto something because before the note episode, my father had come to visit me and I seriously wondered WHY he had suddenly become perfectly trim and fit for no apparent reason.

My mother complained because his secretary was no beauty queen.

I'm afraid his secretary just heaped on the praise and it broke down my father's walls.

Getting back to my husband's office...

They could see each other daily. He could make her feel cherished and she could admire him to the point of death.

The reason my suspicions are building up with this secretary is because she is the only secretary that my husband doesn't call by name while on the phone.

I just heard him talk to a different secretary the day before yesterday and he called her by name like he always does.

Why should one secretary get different treatment?

The first time I met this secretary was a few years ago and I later commented to my husband how uncomfortable she appeared to be when I met her.

I just thought she was an insecure person. Some people are that way. But now I'm having second thoughts.

I think a spy camera could give me more peace of mind.

Problem is, how many will I have to buy to get the right one?

My voice recorder battery failed me yesterday, but the vehicle tracking appeared to be accurate.

I don't like the battery devices. Can't they make more recharging devices?

I think I blew out my historical vehicle tracker because I inserted rechargeable batteries (got tired of buying regular batteries).

The batteries must have been overcharged (I took them out of the charger promptly) because the tracker started blinking out of control.

Good thing my real-time vehicle tracker was soon to arrive.

Oh, how I hate having to play detective all the time!

At least now if I get caught snooping, my husband will know the reason why. Before, I was really worried as to what I would say if I were to get caught.

Lousy Golfer had given me a good thing to say: that (by snooping) I was CONFIRMING my husband's words.

Not only do I have to hide my snooping from him, but I have to hide it from my intelligent children who notice everything.

Here I am snooping on my husband and my daughter is snooping on me (trying to figure out what I'm doing).

I think that's why I have fumbled so many times and botched a number of important snooping occasions.

I'm sure my husband is wondering why I need to check his computer so often.

I have had to re-adjust the keylogger settings multiple times (problem with not having a test version on my own computer), try to get the reports sent on the correct schedule (maintain persistent connection) and uncheck the computer's secure email connection that would not allow me to have ANY email copies at all.

It has been one complication after another.

I think it's because my husband has changed computer settings because of the new firewall that his ISP had installed about the same time I had installed the keylogger.

So, I must appear to be magnetically drawn to his computer these days!

I keep thinking every trip is going to be my last trip.

Get this. One of my sons quipped with the following comment one night before I left for my husband's computer:

"Off to the night shift?"

I'm laughing as I type this. What a great sense of humor!

Last night, I went to bed. I wasn't mad. I was DONE.

Couldn't believe a married man could claim to love his wife and be so unfriendly.

I was just shaking my head. Is he for real?

Does he really think I'm going to be in love with him when this (phone record collection) is done?

When he came to bed, I didn't respond to what I considered a stupid good-night gesture: partial handshake.

I figured, why pretend we're friends, a minute before going to sleep, when he's been acting like I'm his enemy for days.

This is how the conversation went:

Him: Don't you want to say good-night?
Me: Email me.
Him: What do you mean by that?
Me: If you want to talk, email me.

I said this because I knew it was not a good time to start what would become a very long and possibly emotional conversation at bedtime (when we're both tired).

He gets up and turns the light on.

Him: Can't we say good-night?
Me: Why (should we)? You don't even love me anymore!
Him: Please don't say that...I do love you...

Apparently, my victim role (you don't love me) appealed to him. I had never spoken that way before.

He suddenly became affectionate (I did not respond) and we exchanged short sentences back and forth followed by some lengthy excuses on his part.

I told him he was acting like he hated me. I felt like I was his enemy.

He became defensive, so I reminded him that he didn't want to know how I felt. He apologized.

At one point, he was trying to justify why he was treating me that way regarding his business and the process of getting the phone records.

Me: That's a poor excuse.
Him: (he agreed)

Me: You're treating me like when...(and I mentioned a painful topic related to our marriage vows that was also the heart of our marriage problems until it was resolved before I began posting at this website).

Him: I'm sorry. Will you forgive me?
Me: How will I know you're sorry?
Him: I will treat you better.

Last night was the first time in our marriage that I felt like taking off my wedding ring.

The only reason I didn't was because I wanted to be a good example for my children.

Me: I should give my wedding ring to...(his business).
Him: What do you mean by that?
Me: That's your true wife.

I explained how he chooses his career status over his wife's feelings.

Later the conversation went like this:

Him: Are you giving up on me?
Me: You have already given up on me.

I asked him why he always waits for me to "walk away" before he'll do anything to help our relationship.

He shared how frustrated he was over my lack of trust in him and how getting the phone records reminds him of my suspicions.

Me: What caused me to not trust you?
Him: (acknowledgement that he caused it)

I explained to him that the way he's been treating me doesn't help me to trust him. In fact, it makes me trust him less. And that he's PUNISHING me for wanting reassurance, wanting to trust him.

I remained calm and detached through the entire conversation.

Everything (my words) came out in calculated, one-liners (not like me).

I didn't even want him to touch me, although I didn't say that, and he continued to touch me.

I just wanted to go to sleep.

If talking was so important, why didn't it happen earlier?

Why couldn't it have happened when I greeted him at the door with a smile, or after dinner or at least through email during the day?

This is how the conversation ended:

Him: Will you forgive me?
Me: If I forgive you, you'll take me for a fool again.

Him: What would you like me to do?
Me: Get some sleep and email me in the morning.

He turned over. Before falling asleep, I thought I heard tears.

But there is NO OTHER WAY to get him to warm up to me and respect our relationship.

What I like about what happened during our conversation is that Steve must have had an impact on him.

My husband asked for forgiveness, which he never does (but I always volunteer it), and asked me what I would like him to do (and he did it).

Maybe there is underlying progress going on. We'll see.

Observing,

There is alot of information for me to mull over. If you can get a hidden camara into his office that would be great. Does he own the business?

My WH was wh**e boss. I have heard the both were acting very suspicouis. Like when anyone would go into my WH office he would minimize computer screen, or hang up the phone real quick. Apparently the MOW would do the same when anyone came near her cubicle.

They were meeting before work and arriving together also. So I don't think it was any big surprise there. Do you have anyone there that could "spy" for you? Right now I have a source... a friend of a friend of a friend.

Kids can also be very perceptive... my oldest DD became clued in on her own.

I'm wondering if you should lay low and plan A while being detective. That way it may throw him off a little. Because if he is having an affair he just may go deeper. Although I'd let the experts handle that.

If you do get a PI you need to be prepared for the answers... I have pictures fortunately you can't see what they are doing just their cars and where they were. My WH doesn't know that though. When I got the final report from the PI he told me he would testify if needed. I told him I thought you couldn't really see anything he replied we could hear them. My WH tried to make me believe they were there just to talk. I called him for another reason and then told him oh last week at the boat landing you were not talking you could be heard... you're a pig. I then hung up. He called me a little later and said you must be diappointed in me... NAW I'm so proud. I told him he disgusts me. Just LB a little.

Still

Today, my husband sent me an email:

He admitted that he was abusing me and that he should love me.

He asked for mercy, to not give up on him, that he wants to make it up to me somehow and to give him another chance and accept his apology.

I replied:

"Yes, I want God to give me another chance, so I will give you another chance."

Turns out that my husband will be getting a better deal for his business with the new phone company and the new phones will pay for themselves within the first year.

He can approach his business sibling with the phone change as being "cost effective, with better records and nearly the same coverage".

I can't believe how fast the phone issue is progressing – lightening fast.

So what was all the complaining about?

Stillhurting01,


Yes, he's part owner of the business and knows that I go to his office for computer checking now. My "copying and faxing" days ran out quickly.


Like your husband, my husband has been known to go to work early, leave late and then go back to work for a few minutes or a little while - for years.

This is what I find VERY INTERESTING about your situation.

I always thought my husband was a workaholic - I guess he could be. But then again...


Yes, my best girlfriend. But I would have to "let the cat out of the bag" that I have suspicions in the first place.

If she knew I had suspicions, she could never look at my husband in the eyes and she might feel pressure to quit the job. She's sensitive that way and honest as the day is long.

Anyone else would be a trumpet for gossip in this town.


I think you're right.

And in that case, I may have already blown it by letting him know that I'm watching. But I just couldn't hold up anymore. I was splitting at the seams.

So to lay low, I would have to kick back, enjoy life with the kids, stop the relationship talk and try to be happy.

By the time we started coaching with Steve, I had felt like I had reached burn out. I was getting depressed and couldn't smile anymore.

I had to come to terms with what I wanted to do with my life. I kept asking myself: Who are YOU and where are YOU going?

I acted on it and quickly snapped out of the depression.

I guess that is what Plan A is all about.

I didn't realize until months later that Plan A doesn't consist of relationship talk. So I kind of ruined it that way.

I really appreciate your time and the helpful things you have given me to think about and work on.

Take care.

Observing,

I don't think you have failed at Plan A... your H e-mailed you and wanted forgiveness. That says alot to me. Unfortunately my H didn't do that at all.

My WH is also a workaholic.... it use to upset me that he cared more for his employees than he did for his own family. He woud get angry when I said that but that's how I felt. This past summer I thought he was putting in 12 hour days.... little did I know. He barely spent any time with our children. Oh last summer was horrible, it hurts just thinking about it.

Your friend that works in the office could you maybe broach the subject that things seem a little off between you and H. Ask Is there anything going on at work that maybe he's not telling you?

Are you still coaching with SH? I think that's great that you H will do that.
Also do you think you're H may be suffering from a little bit of depression? Depression runs in my WH's family and I really think he has depression but is so stubborn.

I can tell you the signs that gave me red flags that he may be involved with someone..

Never wanted to be near me.

Almost falling off the edge of the bed so he wouldn't be near me.

Rejection whenever I tried to intiate SF.

When we would go out with friends he would have his back to me.

The tone of his voice and the look he would give me when he talked to me.

Those were my red flags.

Still

Stillhurting01,

I want to make a list of all the things I've learned from you. Then check it off as I do them.

It's great to have fresh ideas to work with, things that I may not have considered yet.


That's right. And I'm trying to count my blessings.

I hope what he did is for real, and not done out of fear.

I'm sure it doesn't help to have read on this website that a husband begged for forgiveness and received it – only to go on to the next Affair, or that a wife forgave and was given diamond jewelry before her husband cheated on her again, or that Sexual Fulfillment had increased during an Affair so that the wife wouldn't be suspicious.

I keep these things in the back of my mind and try to be ready for anything.


Oh, you have just hit on a raw nerve. You couldn't have said it better.


Sometimes I think that if it wasn't for avoiding me, he wouldn't spend ANY time with our children, other than mealtime and when we plan family activities which the kids and I are responsible for.

When my oldest son was about 16 years old, I heard him answer his older sister, who was standing right next to me, about what Dad thought on the subject. His answer was, "He never talks to me about anything".

It was a sad moment of realization for us. I felt like saying, "Me too". But I held my tongue and hurt deeply for him.


I'm so very, very sorry.


Yes, absolutely! Now why didn't I think of that? I'll get to work on that.


Uh, well…we WERE.

But my husband put the coaching ON HOLD. I posted details on this (about one page back).

I did tell Steve that I had to take the "bull by the horns" to get my husband to be WILLING to work on our relationship.

We have plans to return to coaching in about 3 months, after the rest of the phone records arrive. I wonder how that's going to work out.

If it doesn't, I might pay for my own Individual Counseling with Steve.


Depression is a possibility.

I know his sister attempted suicide once, so depression could run in his family.

I just thought I was dealing with pessimism (or a bad attitude) all the time.

I even concocted my own phrase about his pessimism:

"The only time a pessimist is an optimist is when he claims to be a realist."

(pause…waiting to hear laughter)

Do you think people who have depression are more likely to have affairs?


Now that's an understatement.

Our husband's heritage must be from the same country! I don't dare mention any more…otherwise I might lose some anonymity.


I really appreciate your list of red flags. As I look at each one, the following are ones that I would like to comment on…

Red flag:


My first reaction would have been, no, he has never turned down Sexual Fulfillment.

But there were times he tried verbally talking me out of it, not sure why.

This happened while we were working on the MB Home Study Course within the last 6 months.

Red flag:


On one of our romantic dinners out (Recreational Companionship), my husband told me that he likes to get out of town…uh, so that nobody recognizes him.

That sounded awful to me, and I was confused, thinking: Does he not want to be seen with ME, his wife?

I put the thought out of my mind thinking that it was crazy. But if he had a relationship locally, getting out of town with his wife would be a relief, right?

Do you know what? I have been thinking this whole time that if he had a relationship it would be out of town. So here I turn on the vehicle tracker when he leaves town.

That's way too narrow-minded isn't it?

It's been mentioned before on my thread that an Affair could easily occur locally. But not until I read your posts, did I realize how it could happen in MY situation.

Red flag:


For me, it's the way he LOOKS or DOESN'T LOOK at me.

I knew it was related to marital problems, but not until last summer did I think it could have ANYTHING to do with a relationship outside our marriage.

So basically, you may be saying that the red flags are the way he TREATED you.

That's what I've been concerned about all these months – the way he's treating me.

Oh, Fiatflux, while scrambling to type more posts, I failed to thank you for bumping up my thread. Thank you!

Observing,

I'm glad I was helpful... it makes me feel like I'm giving back for all the great advice I have recieved here. I pray that your H isn't having an A. I wouldn't eish this on anyone.

When you mentioned about going out of town for dinners... I'll just tell you something that may ease your mind. My WH was a retail pharmacist and used to work in town. He would prefer to go out of town when we went out so he didn't run into customers. Therefore we could have a peaceful dinner.
Now I'm not sure the profession that your H is in but if he works with the public that may be the reason.... not that he doesn't want to be seen with you.

I'm trying to think of other red flags.... it just seems so long ago.

One was that when he would get calls on his cell he would walk away from me.

Another is he seemed to be looking for any excuse to get out of the house..
I need to go fill up the truck (meanwhile he just got back from work)

I feel bad for my kids... I know he was away from home alot to avoid me. I hope they don't hate me for that some day.

The depression thing... men show different symptoms of depression than woman do. I went to a semnar right after my Wh first A. I wish I could find the handout. I thought this is my husband. Men seem to be more angry is the thing that stuck out in my mind the most. My WH always seemed so angry.

The thing with my WH co-workers.. is he wold listen to all thier problem and try to fix it....it was like look at us we are having problems that need to be fixed.

I would recommend to continue to council with Steve harley if you can afford it... even if H doesn't. He is the expert here.

About the SF... it was only this past year that he started to reject me. He told me he always thought we had a great sex life.

Keep updating .... I hope we're wrong about an A.

Still

Stillhurting01,

I did what you advised.

I contacted (via email) my friend and casually blended in the question with the conversation we already had going.

I said this:

"I'd like to say that I'm doing fine, but things seem a little off between me and my husband. By chance is there anything going on at work that maybe he's not telling me or that I should know about?"

I've heard nothing from her. No yea. No nay. Nothing.

What to think of that?

Things are rather calm right now.

I've been enjoying Plan AF (As Friends).

There is minimal communication (no relationship talk), so there's no strife.

There are no expectations (fidelity of the heart), so there's no hurt (feelings).

I've been doing fun, worthwhile things with the kids.

I got back into an OPTIMISTIC mode in my life.

Actually feeling great!

Not what you call happily married, but better than what it was.

Actually, we did tap into one event on our relationship:

I kindly, but directly asked my husband to stop sending me half-dead flower bouquets for Valentine's Day.

I was going to talk to Steve Harley about the best approach for this, but my husband had canceled my session while we await the complete phone records.

This flower request didn't sit well with my husband, although he knows exactly what he did on the last few Valentine's Days.

Since I finally realized what was going on, I used what I learned on Passive/Aggressive behavior to deal with it: straight talk, set limits, drop it, and move on.

Worked great!

Spooky!

I think this story is worth telling even though I am still in Plan AF (As Friends).

Last night, my husband and I were coming home from a day with the kids (monthly project).

Before we got home but AFTER working hours, my husband gets a phone call on his cell phone.

He doesn't mention the person's name, so it's easy for me to guess who it is.

When I casually ask him, "Who's that?" he says the name of his secretary with the "too friendly" voice.

Okay, I predicted right.

My next prediction was that he would need to go back to work after we got home instead of take care of the issue in the morning.

We get home and he doesn't take his jacket off and get comfortable in the house.

Instead, he hangs around outside and then starts filling up a bucket of water.

What's he going to do? It appears he's going to wash a vehicle.

That's right. He gets ready to wash the NEW car that I bought (one of my positive endeavors as I try to get on with life).

But is it a good time for washing a car? It's almost dark. Apparently it is.

I could tell he was STALLING. He didn't want to appear in a hurry to run down to his office or bother to mention his plans to me in the first place.

You see, as we had passed by his workplace on our way home (and after I had asked who was on the phone), I looked for possible clues and noticed a sporty vehicle parked outside his workplace and saw that the lights were on in the building.

So naturally, I eavesdropped (from inside our house) as he chatted with our youngest son who usually helps to wash vehicles.

That's how I learned that he had planned to go to his office after the car was washed.

So I conveniently showed up outside about the time he was finished washing the car, to say thank you (first washing) and be ready to volunteer to go with them to the office.

I generally don't volunteer myself to go with him on a trip to the office.

But I wanted to see if he would turn me down and if so, at what force it could happen.

I also wanted to see the look on his secretary's face once I showed up in the office with him - provided she would be there like I thought she would be.

But he didn't get ready to leave.

Instead, he began washing ANOTHER vehicle. My son had to turn the outside lights on for him.

Why is he washing vehicles in the dark? Don't remember seeing that before.

I went back into the house and did more eavesdropping on his plans for the night.

When he was done washing the second vehicle and hosing off the carport (the whole process lasted about an hour), I stepped outside for "a walk" which I have been known to take in the evenings since our property allows for this.

As he walked toward his vehicle to LEAVE, he broke the news (last minute) to me that he and our son were going to the office for "a few minutes".

I said, "Okay, I'll come with you" and then skipped over to the vehicle and hopped in.

I can't remember my husband saying much as he had approached his vehicle, but he was quiet and looking at the ground.

He didn't refuse my self invitation. But then again, if he did, wouldn't that make it obvious he didn't want me to go?

We went to the office together. The sporty vehicle was still parked outside and the main office lights were still on. Just like I thought they would be.

As we approached the main office door, my husband UNMISTAKABLY looks through the nearby office window, directly toward his secretary's room which is located across the hall with the light on, but doesn't see her there.

If I were to guess what he was thinking, I would say that it was more like "what is her condition" rather than "who is here tonight".

I'm right behind him, dressed like I want to be and ready to flash a friendly, confident smile and watch her reaction.

Upon entering the office, my husband briskly walks over to the locked bookkeeper's room. He unlocks it and walks in. I follow right behind him, along with our son (who later runs back and forth to the snack jar at the receptionist's desk).

I'm feeling rather awkward at the moment though.

Then his secretary walks into the office. So she WAS there like I thought she would be!

Not good. It was surreal, actually.

She came from an area within the building where we did not expect to see her.

I walk out to greet her, knowing that this moment could be revealing. She did well, and I can't say that she had a problem with me being there.

But my husband did. He was visibly uncomfortable.

I hope so. I was there to witness what he never bothered to tell me.

I watch his eyes as the two of them briefly speak about office matters. He makes brief eye contact with her knowing that I'm watching him like a bold HAWK (first time at that too).

Every time she spoke, I would watch HIM (not her) and his reaction to her. I could tell he didn't want to speak to her under those conditions.

After a few sentences, he asks her in front of me, why is it that she's working late at the office (Gee, shouldn't he have asked her that over the phone?). She gives what appears to be a valid reason.

He then signs a check and leaves the bookkeeper's room. But he forgets to close the bookkeeper's door behind him. He catches himself and goes back to close the door and locks it.

Meanwhile I'm saying goodbye to his secretary, who had since claimed that she took care of the other reason he came to the office (explaining perhaps why she wasn't at her desk when we arrived).

She tells him that the other secretary needs a copy of the signed check, but he dismisses the procedure and leaves it for the other secretary to complete in the morning.

He just wants to get out of there!

We leave the building and immediately after stepping outside my husband begins to explain "that's why" she was at the office.

Yeah, right. And I'm supposed to believe that?

I hardly said a word.

I knew it was her on the phone. I knew he would go to the office that night, even though he was totally stalling beforehand. I knew she would be there when he got there - after hours. And she was.

What a spooky feeling.

Here I was standing in the middle of a scene that was going to happen without my knowledge had I not suspected something and jumped into his vehicle to go with him.

Okay, if my husband doesn't want me to be suspicious about those kinds of things, what should he have done?

After receiving his phone call, he SHOULD HAVE told me that his secretary was at the office working late because of this reason and that reason, and that he needed to go back to his office after we got home to help her, and ask me if I would like to go with him.

That's what he should have done!

But no, do weird things and make your wife more suspicious than ever.

Is that his philosophy for building trust?

What now?

I'm feeling very sick to my stomach today.