Piojitos,

Pardon me for my Spanish but doesn't your name translated mean "lice"?

I think it means head lice. Why?

Sorry Dr. Cymanca. KiwiJ believes I misunderstood your question. I began my new life as a BS as traicionado on another web site. Bigger found me there and advised me to come here. Yes it is bigger's fault. I remained traicionado here for quite some time and then cc46 told me that I needed to change my screen name to get myself out of the mental rut that I was in. She suggested "pendejo" which I felt appropriate (and I'm sure most will agree). So I was pendejo for about a day until some nice lady who spoke a little bit of Spanish posted and asked "but doesn't that mean as.......?"

So as not to offend nice ladies (or at least mitigate it as much as possible), I changed to "pan de ajo" which is a private joke and a euphamism for pendejo within that context. I still didn't like it and lemonman was hammering me for changing screen names (like he reads my posts anyway!) so I sat down and thought really hard about what I could call myself that would be very fitting and offend as few people as possible. I finally chose piojitos.

Piojitos are tiny insignificant things that nobody wants, anyone is ashamed of and everyone overlooks. This is me. Totally unimportant, insignificant and treated like a pesky nuisance by my WW who would prefer not to have me at all, definitely like to have me out of her hair and would like to crush me with her thumbs. So I think "piojitos" fits pretty well. AND it sounds MUCH better than "head lice" if you are nit-picking.

IN North Carolina there is a law called "alienation of affection."
Meaning my BH can sue the OM for alienating my affection for him (BH).

Though the EA was ended and I wanted desperately to stay married to BH, he told me (in a fit of rage) that I had to file for D, so it would strengthen his alienation of affection case. He said if I filed, we would reconcile after the alienation trial, but if HE had to file, we would go through with the whole thing, becasue if I didn't file it was obviously to protect OM.

Of course, I did not file, I told him I loved him and would not file....

He has not filed either, and probably won't, but who knows? and has dropped the alienation of affection thing altogether.

But I know 2 girls in my office whose husbands had affairs that everyone knew about, so they looked into the alienation of affection thing, but they were both advised by their attorneys that those lawsuits are very hard to win, though I think one of the suits that DID win was made into a Lifetime movie....

Piojitos, your handshake thing was gross, made me laugh. Perhaps you are too hard on yourself.....

I think it would be a good idea to have laws. Even if it was written into the context of divorce law.

As a WS/FWS you are not entitled to a standard D agreement.

I live in California it is a no fault state. No matter what happened in the M she is entitled to the standard communitiy property 50/50 thing. Imagine that ireconcilable differences, yes I can't reconcile the fact she slept with OM. LOL.

An A also may not have any bearing on child custody. Unless the children were embarassed or humiliated etc it has no relevance. So lets get this straight WS is not spending time at home to be with OP. They are spending marital assets to be with OP. But that has no bearing as their fitness as a parent.

How about any S that has an A can only get a max of 40% custody. That would be the max.

Make sure that these laws are well known that way ignorance cannot be a defense.

Oh and how about restitution for the cost of the original wedding to the BS.

As it stood when my FWW came back she stood to gain everything and lose nothing because of her A. Geez that is great.

I just thought I'd let you all know that I've changed my screen name from "VowsRSacred" to "BringItOn" as one poster (correctly) suggested that my previous name implied "victim." I WAS in the victim mentality, but have moved into the "anger" stage of this battle, hence the new name of "BringItOn." I'll probably change again, as I charge through the various stages of this.

thank you all for your inputs.

That is ironic. Just before leaving for work this thread popped into my mind and the "alienation of affection" laws. That is actually what I called to ask the attorney about in the first place. They no longer apply in our state.

But I do think that civil laws would be more appropriate than criminal. I remember visiting a old prison in Yuma, AZ. One of the things that imprinted on my then 12 yo mind was this set of shackles. The plate gave the name of a man that had died on those shackles, imprisoned for adultery. I had to asked what that was. Then I thought "That is kinda harsh." I'm sure there have been moments or two in my pain I've thought that fitting -- but in the end I don't want my marriage, family, children to suffer anymore than they already have and having my H and his OP put in prison for life isn't going to make anything better.

However, I think civil laws might be more just. We invest our entire lives into a marriage and we are just suppose to except it. Children have their world turned upside down, traumatized in some cases. If a hot cup of coffee in our lap justifies a million dollar lawsuit then the sufferage of infidelity definately warrants it.

I guess it varies for the children. For some it may be a matter of embarassment. But for mine, and others, the betrayel was equally as painful and the triggers as well. She, like me is in counseling to deal with it. He is having to rebuild her trust in the same way he is rebuilding mine.

And who started this ball rolling the OP. Flirting and making passes at my H -- with my DD in the room -- for months before A started. Of course DD didn't pick up on it at first. DD believe woman to be a good christian woman. After all she was active in church. (Note I am being a bit sarcastic here. And by the way NOT to imply that I am excusing him for one moment). Sorry! Got off track, guess I still need to vent once in awhile.

Well wouldn't it be nice if we were back in the days of the Scarlet Letter.

You have to walk around with a big A on your garb for adulterer.

I know that the book had a double meaning with the women wearing the A while the man did not have too. But could you imagine the impact that may have.

You are sentenced to wear a big A it could be like the patch Laverne wore on Laverne and Shirly. Peer preasure might work out well.

Gee this person is flirting with me and if I act and get caught I will have to walk around with a big A on all of my clothes.

Until the lawmakers see how this is tearing families apart and how damaging it is then nothing will change. However they seem to be fairly comfortable doing it as well.

So what should they do? Forget about criminal or civil. It is obviously mental cruelty to have an A.

It is obvioulsy not in the best interest of the child. But what are the ramifications.

I hate to say it but there are more ramifications for the men then the women who do this in my state.

I was the breadwinner she was a SAHM. So she gets more custody, more child support and alimony.

If I do it she gets more custody, more child support and alimony.

So for me as a man there were some serious risks involved that the reward did not outweigh.

As a matter of fact my FWW wanted to move out of state and at the time based on all of the laws she could have. Because her A had no bearing on child custody. LOL.

So she has an A, I am devestated and then I lose my children to boot. Great system.

I don't see how the family courts cannot take it into consideration. Obviously the WS/FWS has shown that they put themselves above everyone else, including the children. Is that not unfit.

Yes I stayed out all night with the OP but it had no effect on my children. Yes mommy and daddy fought and that caused an unhealthy environment but it wasn't because of my A. Yes money was spent on OP that should be in a college fund but that has no effect on the children. Of course it does.

But lets ignore that. Hey how about the fact there is a D and now a child has to go from parent to parent. I think there have been studies suggesting that is hard on the children.

So the A leads to all of this and yet they say it has no bearing.

A's lead to D. D leads to consequences. Consequences on all involved in the D. If there are consequences the FWS/WS should bear those consequences.

Until that day A's will continue to cause damage and the FWS/WS has a legal system that protects them as though the A did not have any bearing on anything.

I like the screen name change. It sounds like you are finally ready to do something. Use that anger in positive ways. Sooner or later I hope you can find an even better screen name. Some along the lines of HappyAtLast. Well, you get the idea.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I know it is totally off the subject -- but I am about to bust.

I am lovin it -- "BringItOn"

That's an excellent affirmatin in times like these

Thanks Blessed,

I had a particularly low point last week and finally (after some soul-searching, raw prayers) my determination and resolve returned stronger than ever...

I will make it...and win. H can join me/us and win...or not.

[color:"blue"] << Does anyone out there know if there are current laws making adultery illegal. ... How would one go about changing the laws to make adultery less acceptable to society? Does anyone here know about it?

Would anyone be interested in starting a movement about said subject? >> [/color]
-- Yeah, I would, and got started already in a tiny, tiny way....

Lots of responses between the time I've read this post and got the answer typed up ... ha! But here goes anyways


[color:"blue"] I'd like to get back to the ORIGINAL QUESTION at the start of this thread, paraphrasing these:
1) Are there laws against adultery?
2) How would you go about bringing in laws like these?

The short answer to question #1:
Here and there, some laws exist, but they are useless !
- Firstly, they are leftovers from a different time and age, and they not enforced in a meaningful way.
- The only entitlement these laws would give you is to provide a reason to get a divorce before the minimum wait time is up, so that it is your RIGHT to walk out of a marriage immediately. Judges don't even count them anymore in how they split up your property.

Question #2:
- How would you accomplish this ?

How?
- By being prepared for a long uphill struggle. But of a lot of uphill struggles were won in the past.
- By getting together, and then start rattling the cages of our decision makers.

- By pointing out that adultery costs us all dearly, millions and millions of dollars every year: Counselling, lost productivity, hospital and mental emergency admissions due to anger, depression, violence, and suicide attempts, children and teen misbehavior when they let out their anger, you name it.

A lot of this cost to the individual, companies, and the tax payer can be traced directly to disrespect of one's marriage vows.

Now this is a message board for HELPing each other get through the obscenity of a spouse's adultery.

We who read and contribute to this message board, tend to get isolated on boards such as this one, while we are looking for emotional comfort, help and insight from each other.

One of the forces we are struggling against is PUBLIC IGNORANCE about how deeply damaging adultery is, and the TRIVIALization of marriage as the underpinning of our modern societies.

Would we help each other, if we could re-educate the public mind to take adultery and meaningful marriage vows a bit more serious?

Would it help all of us here and on other message boards if we could educate Joe and Jane Public(in their incarnation as parents, in-laws, brothers and sisters) to stop saying cheerily "Oh, I just want him/her to be happy" ... or "Just follow your heart, dear", and instead get them to understand Frank Pittmann's words:

" Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful re-marriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression "


My big point here is:

Helping each other here is wonderful. Keep it up.
But we will also HELP each other by becoming very vocal in the public arena, hounding our law makers internationally, and start asking for protection for marriage, for a right to stay married, not only for laws protecting your "right" to get a divorce as quickly and easily as possible.

Can you imagine a world where your in-laws say "Don't follow your craziness " instead of "follow your heart."
[/color]
Cheers everyone.

Pick an example - any example:

Say you go to a bank and talk to a loan officer and tell him you want to start a car wash business so can he give you some money? Not likely to get it.

Go to a different bank, another loan officer and tell him you want to start the business. You show him your research, info on competition, business plan, projected earnings and growth and prove that you can generate profit and, more importantly, repay the loan and you will have a much better chance.

So DMbx,

You have the right buzz words. You are starting to approach the concept in a way that is practical. But where is the market research?



Can you prove this? Can you document it and assign a dollar (loonie or whatever you want) estimate to it? If you can do that, I am sure you will get the loan.

I am not trying to criticize you here - on the contrary, I am trying to encourage you. If you can make a compelling argument that adultery costs business and government and estimate the impact, I'm fully on board with you and so will many others. Pick a battle you can win. Money always talks.

OTOH, they say that cats suck away babys' breath....

Quote <I am not trying to criticize you here - on the contrary, ...>
Pijohitos, I'll take you on your word on this.

I understand the concepts of marketing that you're trying to point me at, and the idea of picking the most promising angle from all the many possible ones, and you are right on pointing this out.


[color:"red"] M[/color]y previous post was meant to encourage members here to start thinking about taking some of their strength from the "micro" to the "macro"-level, so to speak. The micro-level would be helping each other out here on this board, the macro-level aiming comments, spitballs, and love-attacks at Mr. and Mrs. Public.

People who are struggling here through their day-by-day misery won't benefit, maybe, but who knows 5 or 10 years from now?

For the moment I wanted to stick with raising people's enthusiams a bit.

Look at that little number at the top of your post (#3,103,231) I'm not sure, but I guess that's the number of messages stored in the database of this messageboard. (is that right?) Add to this the several million messages over on Weiner-Davis' Divorce-Busting board, and many more elsewhere.

Imagine every 10th, or even just every 100th of all these messages would have gone not to this board here, but instead to make a point with a member of parliament, senator, media personality, what have you...

Do you realize what magnitude of persuasive power would have come from redirecting such a small percentage of message to our lawmakers? The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

So this is a plea to [color:"blue"] be a squeaky wheel [/color] , everybody, everywhere ...

Otherwise it's just poor little me in one place, and poor little somebody else in another.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> And yes, pijohitos and everyone, I'll heed your warning about picking the battles wisely.