OK, so ever since breaking up with G, I have been introspecting. Why couldn't I accept some of her qualities, why couldn't I learn to be more "flexible" or "relaxed", instead of obsessing over chores, schedules, etc? Do I have my priorities straight?

This not meant to be a way to rationalize going back to G; it is more about me. I know my ISTJ personality inherently tries to lock me into being rigid and not flexible. But at what point do I stop saying that "this is just the way I am, and I need X, Y, and Z" and start thinking "hmmm, maybe these differences are a growth opportunity"? We do want to grow in a relationship, right?

Again, I know that with G, there was not as much growth opportunity as differences. It's not growth for me to start sleeping half a day, or become more of a couch potato, etc. But, there probably is something to be said for learning to be more flexible with schedules, or spending money on having someone else do cleaning, cooking, etc... I know, it's not "me" as I am now, but do I have my priorities right?

This is where B2M's question comes in:


I wonder if many of us, parents, tend to get too set in our ways and get too serious, because we are responsible for raising our kids. And we have our routines worked out, and it's hard to change them. And whoever comes into our lives needs to flex to be like us.

At one point last year, a woman I was corresponding with on a dating site made an observation that I seem to need someone who can enter my life seamlessly. I thought about it, and I know she was right. Of course, I am willing to compromise on some things, but it seems like so many things in my life are set, that there is not much wiggle room.

Add to that my nature of not liking to try new things, and you have a pretty difficult situation...

So what if all my priorities are wrong? Of course raising my kids is a non-negotiable, but I wonder if I should work on expanding my horizons and learning to change some very set patterns. E.g. I am more of a homebody - not a couch potato at all, but I can easily spend a weekend fixing up my house. What if I said "heck, who cares about the house, it's beautiful as is... Why not take up biking, or join the Sierra club, etc?". What if I said "having a loving, devoted, sweet, and trustworthy spouse is more important that having one who can cook up a storm or who is a morning person?".

I am thinking of a couple of marriages I know, which seem to be outstanding, and in both, one of the partners is definitely a "slacker" in comparison to the other. They may have some great traits (one was extremely bright, the other is just a very sweet person, but definitely not what I would call a "partner". And yet, in both cases, their spouses just adored them "as is", and they always seemed so happy and thrilled to be together. Sometimes I wish I could have accept G this way, because aside from her peculiarities, she is a sweet and wonderful person in many many ways.

So it makes me wonder - did I become too focused on having someone be just like me, at the expense of learning to experience new things?

Did I learn to focus so much on finding the right partner for the future that I am not open to have fun in the present?

These days I think that dating would be much easier after my kids are grown and off to college. I would be more flexible with my time, my living arrangements, etc. Or at least I hope so. But that is 10 years away, I am not thrilled about the idea of being alone for the next 10 years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Anyway, this is not meant to be a post to analyze me, I am hoping to hear from others on how they successfully balance providing a comfortable and "safe" environment for the kids and yet are able to be flexible and to enjoy life and "differences".

AGG

I guess a simpler way to summarize my ramblings above would be, "what, if anything, could I do to be more accepting of differences with my partner, and learn to enjoy them for who they are rather than who I expect them to be?"

And the corollary, "where do I transition from saying that certain things are my expectations, while others are growth opportunities?"

I don't know if this helps, maybe I needed to ponder this some more before posting. You know what they say, "don't ponder and post" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

AGG,

I'm not familiar with all of the details of your situation but as I read through your post, I get the feeling that you're trying to force things to happen instead of just letting events unfold and happen as they will when they will.

While I think it's possible to have it all (or most of it all) I certainly don't think we can have it all at ONCE. This might be the time for you to focus on your children and spend some time without a female companion. Enjoy your children while you've got them - there's always time for romance later.

Maybe you don't really want a SO in your life as much as you think you do. It's easy enough to find reasons why someone isn't really right for us when deep at heart, we're not really ready for it.

Agg,

You can compromise and you can adjust...

You guys didn't have a healthy balance of differences, while you had few differences, the differences you had were extreme differences.

Okay, hold your hands up about a foot a part. Then think, "My girlfriend likes to sleep in a little later and get started a little later than I do." Healthy balance....both can compromise and be happy campers....Then spread your hands 6 feet a part and say, "My girlfriend likes to sleep half the day where I like get up early and not waste the day." "Extreme differneces...there isn't enough compromise for either of you to ever be happy, and you can do that same exercise with cleansiness and organization, as well as so many other issues with G. You can only have one or a few differences but it matters on how far apart your differences are, not on the number of differences

I honestly think even one thing if too extreme can make or break a relationship. You think because you and G have a lot in common that you should have some how been able to accept her for who she was....well, Chlorox and Ammonia have a lot in common, they are liquids, they serve the same purpose, they clean, but they don't accept each other when they are mixed together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My ex and I were opposites in sleep patterns, he stayed up most of the night and wanted to sleep a good part of the day, and expecially on weekends. Whereas, I went to bed around 10:00 and woke up early, it was extremely frustrating watching your partner sleep the day away, getting nothing done, not sharing time together but even more than that, at night he'd just spend time working on his computer or watching television....extremely frustrating and now if I meet someone that says they are night owls and love to sleep in. It's too different for me, I don't care if in every other way they are perfect, just this one little difference makes me run and quickly!

Anna

Oh AGG, as much as i think u can be a stick in the mud and a tight a**, (and i mean that lovingly) i do feel for you here.

my opinion, for whatever it is worth, cuz i know you and i are on 2 ends of a spectrum here, is this:
i do think you could loosen up a tad... not analyze things so darn much, and relax a little. it is good to have standards and and idea of what you are looking for, and what you won't accept... but... you need to be a bit flexible too. life is just too short for some of this stuff ya know?

now, i agree, dating is different when you have kids. the kids are a non negotiable as you said, and that is right on. you don't flex on the kids part. but, like you said, you have married friends who are very happy and they are each their own person so to speak. but they fill eachother's needs, the important needs obviously. i guess you have to decide what needs are most important to you. for me, i need companionship, gotta have it. did not get it from my ex, and was very very lonely. i need affection, gotta have it. i am a warm fuzzy, want touching and playing. want to embarrass the ****** out of my kids with flirting with my partner and stolen kisses... you know when your kids go "oh come on you two!" lol i need some domestic support if we are both full time workers. don't expect me to do it all because i am not superwoman. but i am willing to compromise here and share accordingly. i need passion and a good loving sf life. not negotiable. these are just some examples. i will give as much as i get believe me.

now, your sitch with G and her sleeping til noon, her not so neat apt, her finances from parents, her taking forever to get ready. AGG, i will be honest, THAT WOULD DRIVE ME NUTS! i am surprised and give you credit for hanging on as long as you did, but as you said, she had other qualities that kept you around. i do not think i could compromise on some of those. i am a morning up early person, i need my partner to be too. my ex would sleep til noon, he worked at night. drove me nuts. he was up all night while i slept. i need someone on overdrive like me. so i get how those things were hard for you to swallow. and for me, would build huge resentments later on.

next time around, i would be willing to be more flexible, more "in the moment" and not so much in the future mode completely. but, know exactly what you are willing to compromise on and what you are not.

i know you poke fun at me and gekko, and yes we are very early on into a budding relationship. but, a lot of mb stuff, a lot of this compromise stuff we talk about. we both were married to others who were complete opposites of us. we both know what we want and hope to have and what we are and are not willing to compromise on. our lines of communication are VERY open and we talk about everything. we both had exes that did not. what i am trying to say is that i feel, for me, this communication constantly works for me. i don't have to guess. think about what you can do and what will work for you.

you're an ok guy AGG, and i am sorry this relationship had to end for you. but you will be more prepared for the next one now.

mlhb

Fraulein62:


Yeah, this crossed my mind. I do love being alone, and I wonder if somehow subconsciously I do not allow SOs in. But I don't really think so - had G been more compatible with me, I think things would have worked out.

Anna:

Yeah, I agree with both points. We can only compromise so much before compromising ourselves. My personal concern is that I am less compromising than most (I know mlhb would disagree <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />), and so it would be harder for me to find that exact match.

After dating G, I now add some things to my already-extensive dealbreaker list, which previously had things like dishonesty, mental illness, bankruptcies, and excessive weight... Now I am adding weird sleep patterns, low energy or motivation, excessive vanity, and probably some others... I don't like the fact that the list is getting longer!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

mlhb:


Yeah, I wish I could. Seriously, this is the one area where I am sometimes jealous of you wild folks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />... The ability to go with the flow. I don't have that, and so I end up holding on to my routines more.

I wonder if to some extent this was caused by the divorce. That there I was, married, two kids, house, job, life more or less "under control". And maybe in some ways I am trying to preserve or rebuild that life and those routines - but with a new partner, that may not be possible, because she would have different preferences, routines, etc, than my ex. It's not like I am hoping for drop-in replacement for the ex (gaaawd...), but maybe for someone to fit into the life that we built - and like the lady told me, that I want someone to fit in seamlessly. I know it can't happen, but maybe I am too unwilling to flex my outlooks to accept differences.

Again, I know that the differences with G were too great, so I am not speaking of that specific example - more in general terms.


Yeah, like I said, I am adding items to my dealbreaker list <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. They seemed so petty compared to the bigger things, but in the end, they were dealbreakers just the same.


Well, of course that is what I'll shoot for. I also think I'll try to go slower. With G, we seemed to connect on so many levels, that I truly felt that she would be "the one". And of course each new "discovery" one at a time was not enough to break the deal - sleeps late, so what; messy place, so what, etc. But all put together, it became a big deal. So I guess for the future, I'll just plan to go slower, but it is hard for me to do if I am really into someone.


Moi?? That was wiftty!! I was merely sitting on the sidelines yelling "go wiftty, go wiftty!!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.


mlhb, I hope you don't misunderstand me and my wet blanket approach to you and gekko. I want nothing but the best for my MB friends. But, having been here long enough, I know how painful these first post-divorce relationships usually are and how people think they have grown, healed, and moved on, and are ready for new deep relationships before they are even divorced. They are not. It takes a very long time to regroup and regain balance, and doing it with someone in your life is going to be a hinderance. I know you think you are going slowly and communicating openly, but in reality, I think people cannot communicate openly with others until they know themselves well enough. And it takes time, time alone. I don't know your story all that well, but having seen gekko's posts on DD board, the guy is not ready.

I hope you don't take it as criticism, it is just the voice of experience speaking (yes, my own included). We all hope to beat the odds, but we rarely do. But if you do, more power to you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. And by all means, enjoy getting to know each other! Just go slow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

Anyway, I'll shut up now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

it is ok AGG, everyone is entitled to their opinions... I have been alone for a year and a half. my divorce is not yet final but i have been alone. gekko's IC (if you recall "hot therapist") who just saw him last week ENCOURAGES our relationship, thinks it is going very well, and says we should continue on. so there ya go.

And, every situation is different. My parents divorced after 26 years of marriage. there was infidelity, etc... all the stuff we see here. both remarried WITHIN THE YEAR and both have been HAPPILY married for almost 20 years. so, who is anyone but the individual themselves, to say who is and is not ready for a relationship after divorce?? that is all i am saying.

you and i (and others here) will just have to agree to disagree on some things and that is ok, cuz that makes the world go round!

mlhb <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Who's right and who's wrong though? You or them? The percentage of divorces are high and even higher with second marriage. Perhaps the people who take more time and are a little more pickier (like me and you) are the ones who are on to something.


I've never set down and actually listed all my deal breakers, but looking at yours I started thinking of all mine and I think I've got your list beat.

1. No smokers

2. No extreme odd sleep patterns.

3. Must believe in God. (While I don't go to church right now, I do believe and this one is important for me)

4. Will look at and consider any extreme differences to see if I can live with them without being driven to frustration.

5. Must be active, no couch potatoes

6. Bankruptcy....will look at it individually, depending on what they have learned and how it happened and see 7.

7. Can't manage money now.

8. Addictions, alcoholism, drugs etc. that are harming.

9. Obesity (I am not saying 20 30 pounds but more extreme)

10. Mental illness

11. Anger problems.

12. A man who won't respect others, especially disrespecting others or judgemental because just because of looks, looking down on people who have blue collar jobs like waiters in restaurants, or doesn't show respect to elderly.

13. If we get past the initial phase....Must want to go to be involved in my childrens lives fully too.

14. No one who cheated on their spouse.

15. No pathological liars.

16. No extreme blamers

17. No one who has ever hit a woman (I do have an exception there after hearing some guy on the radio say he pulled this huge drunk woman off this little man when she was beating the crap out of the little man and then she attacked him, he finally hauled off and hit her...sometimes there are exceptions to the rule)

I think I could add a few more if I tried.

Oh gosh! See AGG, it's scary but once I put my list on paper, I am starting to think I may be more pickier than you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I don't really see where you need to losen up with your own dating now. A year ago...yes...I did think you could. Now, no.

I think you can losen up a bit in some other areas but you didn't ask about those... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Anna

anna,
LOL

"i do think there are other areas where you could loosen up but you didn't mention those..."

chuckle snort...

i wanted to ask AGG about the bankruptcy thing... that should be under what circumstances... i think.
we had to do it because my company closed and i went from 40 grand a year to ZERO just like that. we could not survive on just h's income and in the interim bills were getting behind. in that case, i think that is an exception.
bankruptcy because you suck at money managment is one thing, but some circumstances are beyond ones control...
most of both of your lists tho don't sound like asking too much to me...

mlhb

Hmmm, I didn't phrase my original post properly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Those 4-5 things I listed are not the ONLY dealbreakers for me. They were things I discovered in women who cleared all of my initial dealbreaker filters, and subsequently I found these other issues. If I put together my overall dealbreaker list, i.e. a list of my "must have and can't stand", it would be pushing 100 entries or more. I should do that, just for giggles... Or maybe not, 'cause I'll probably end up crying at how picky I am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


OK, now you got me curious... Care to elaborate?


Yeah, well, you know what they say - don't ask questions if you are not ready to hear the answers... So, OK, go on, now I am asking , shoot...

AGG

Absolutely. It's not the bankruptcy itself that bothered me in the particular case I am referring to, it was the fact that she did not tell me for over three months of the relationship that she was $100K+ in debt. That to me is dishonest - here I am falling for someone who is withholding important info from me, that would affect me for the rest of my life if I married her.

Anyway, yes, it is a matter of something happening that was beyond your control vs poor money mangaement skills and subsequent dishonesty.

We agreed, are you shocked??

AGG

I'm pretty much speechless over this one.

Wow AGG! I'm thinking this statement alone would give you any needed comfort to be out of that relationship.
K!

Just to clarify, this was not G! It was a relationship from a few years back, and yes, I was outta there like a bullet.

AGG

I didn't pick on that at first, but when I re-read the original post I figured it out, thus my edit.

I was thinking though, man, he didn't tell us that huge obstacle!
Glad it wasn't G!

K!

ya know AGG... sometimes the cosmos are strange, the planets all align, and there is a total eclipse... and sometimes, you and I agree... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

can you imagine us in a relationship AGG?? any wagers on who would kill whom first?? lol

mlhb

Well, you've experienced so much and grew so much in that year. I think dating a lot is kind of like having a bunch of children, your 1st child you are so particular and so protective, 2nd you relax your standards a little more, by the 4th or 5th, the others have broken you in and the first two just wonder "What the heck? and Why were you so strict on them when the younger ones get by with so much?"

I can see from those first few dates when you seem to have been throwing them out your car window before you hit there driveway, where you have relaxed your standards and now I think you have more realistic "deal breakers". You even walk them to their door before you give them the boot. Sorry couldn't resist. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Just giving some examples, not sure it’s a perfect example but will get my point across. Before you met the bankruptcy lady, I think you would have been more prone to run if a lady early on told you she went bankrupt, now I think you would listen, date and see what they have learned from the bankrupt experience. Check out their spending habits.

Now that you have dated G, if a person is a little messier than you like or likes to sleep in a little more, I just think you'll be so much more tolerant and just relieved she isn't too extreme. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It's not so bad.

Like others say you over analyze so many things. However, where they say you are over-analyzing is different from where I think you over-analyze. Also, it’s not just over-analyzing but negative thinking. Instead of thinking negatively about yours and Gs relationship as, "Why can't I be more like this person or that person or the person who is more accepting to who G was....why not just relax and enjoy who you are? Why not look at the positive to what you learned in the relationship with G and move past this without over analyzing it? Why not just say, "I have learned I can't be with a person who is lazy, sleeps in, has no ambitions and a bit spoiled. My relationship with G will probably help me in future relationships to be more tolerant of my new partner's faults. This was a good growing and learning experience."

So just relax and enjoy who you are, loosen up and quit obsessing about being like others. Some women will find you so refreshing. One of the reasons I found J so attractive is because he was picky, while other men were dating and dumping anyone who looked their way, J had his standards and kept them. In our group of singles, I don’t think too many women noticed that, but I did and J stood out to me for that very reason.

Oh, I need to add to my list…which like you, if I put them all down, I bet I could get to 100 as well.

I was thinking how J met everything on that list but we still didn’t work out. While the last two years I wasn’t ready to be married so a relationship with a guy who wanted marriage in two to three years probably wouldn’t have worked, now that I do want marriage in the future…add…

1. Won’t date a man who sees getting marriage in the far off future…like 4 to 5 years.

Later,

Anna

P.S. Thanks MLHB for editing my spelling when you quoted me. Too cute!

AGG,

Glad you started asking those questions. With the caveat that you put a lot of emphasis on the kids “issue”. While kids are non-negotiable, your routine with them is. It is not the existence of the kids that makes it challenging for your partner, it is the routine which you have had with them for the past 10 years and to which anyone who comes into your life is an outsider. Remember, the kids are not “baggage”. Your expectations of the behavior of your partner are the baggage that is really hard to carry.

Sorry this last one didn’t work for you. From the little I read I think you are in the right place. Sweetness is not a replacement for respect. Respect in a relationship is the part that is non-negotiable.

As to what is important in life – for you to be comfortable with your reactions and your choices. You know when you take the right decision. That’s because even ISTJs have a gut and therefore gut feelings <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. And that is what you have been doing: you let yourself fall for a woman who seemed the one (a feeling), tried it out (feeling and thinking) and eventually you left because certain things in her behavior annoyed you (a feeling), despite your thoughts which are making you second guess and re-analyze what you could have had. Good news! So your long scary list is fine. It seems an overkill of thoughts and rules, but in fact it is the essence of what would make you feel uncomfortable with a partner, so make it as long as you want. (If I were you, I would add “no G name” Haven’t you noticed that GGs don’t work out?! Sorry, couldn’t resist it).
I counted, I used the word “feel” 5 times in this paragraph, I bet you’re rolling your eyes!

I hope everything else is fine. Good luck.

anna, lol, i did not realize i did edit your spelling! must come natural to me since i am a future teacher in the making.. haha

my students will love me..
mlhb

Yah, it'd be a riot! Fortunately (for me, not for you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />), I already went through my MLC phase of dating a wild blonde chick, so I don't need to ponder the question as to whether they really do have more fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Maybe I am missing your point, but I think that in reality, I am becoming LESS flexible and open to these things, not more so. For instance, in the past I might have said "OK, she's got depression, but she seems to deal with it, that shouldn't stop me from getting to know her", or "OK, she's heavier than what I'd like, but I don't wanna be shallow, why not give it a try". I did the same thing with G (even though unlike the other two examples, I did not see any red flags until getting waaay involved), so when I saw the clutter, or started seeing her schedule, or realized she's not very active, not into cooking/cleaning/household chores, I said "so what, she's a wonderful person, great personality match to me, why let these small things get in the way?".

Whereas now, I think I'll run for the hills when I see these traits again. So, I think I am becoming more and more picky, as I expand my list of "can't stands", not less picky. Don't you agree?


OK, I agree with this point. Seeing the extremes helps me appreciate (and be happy with) things that are more normal, or just slightly out of norm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.


I think that this is where I am now. I did learn from this relationship, so I am not analyzing it as much as I am doing some self assessment. For instance, it kinda bothers me at how free I feel now, now that I am back into my usual routine of focusing on the kids, doing house projects, not having to worry about someone else's schedule (especially when it's incompatible with mine), etc. It makes me wonder if I am simply not meant to have relationships until my kids are grown, or until I become more accommodating of differences <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />.


AGG