Well, last night I got another famous "F2F." Even though- I went to bed at 10, he comes home at 11:45, I got up and attempted SF, but "wasn't exciting enough" so nothing happened, then went to bed around 1, and had to get up at 5:30 for the kids. He actually told me that having SF with him and being tired and not getting enough sleep was "penance" for as long as he wanted it to be. Was told again to not bring up R becasue I "pick and pick and it's like an open wound and how will I know if I can ever heal if you don't stop?"

Yah, but what if I can't heal from what he is doing?

JL-
#1, I think you are right on. He doesnt' feel he can leave especially for the baby. He says he "loved me more than anyone else in the world and I have betrayed him and killed our marriage." I have to say, that in our marriage if the things he did are things he does to the person he loves most in the world, there is a lot to be desired in the presentation. A LOT. He has 4 other kids from his first marriage who want nothing to do with him because of the bitterness of his first wife. She is truly a piece of work, but I have always known there are 2 sides to every story. Anyway, he has flat out said that if he doesnt' divorce me it means I "won" and he "lost." Like our marriage is a zero-sum game.

#2- My mom was upset and angry with me for my behavior. She did "live" with us from Nov 2005 to Feb 2006 when I had broken my ankle in 7 places and had life threatening blood clots because of the surgery. She does not like my husband or the way he acts at all. She still did not condone my actions at all. She told me he deserves to be angry with me, but that I do not deserve to be treated the way he does. Even BEFORE the EA. SF with BH has mostly been about him- in fact, several years ago he threatened to divorce me if I didn't have the kind/frequency of SF he wanted. He later "took it back." Like I trust that. So now I feel that SF is an obligation, not a pleasure- and he makes sure there is NO pleasure for me now- more "penance."

#3- yes, that is right- again, I win, he loses.But he says he no longer loves me, and if he does, he really "isn't sure where it is."

#4- I ask him to tell me how he feels, and basically he just wants me to be a mind reader. If I say that is impossible, he just says, "well, that really sucks for you." I feel this is so unfair, if I ask and he refuses to respond, I am still responsible.

I know this post is full of DJ's. I am in no way justifing my EA. It was wrong and a sin.

But I dont' know if I can save this marriage.

I know- whatever it takes for as long as it takes. But maybe I should amend that, because right now the whatever it is taking is making me think this is not worth saving.

But I am not a quitter. I will rededicate myself to plan A, and try to not worry if he's got one foot out the door- or half his body.....

and no R talk. That would be a change he'd see for the better...

I may be not able to heal myself. I dont' want another EA or anything like it, but I feel very alone.

And Artor, I know you're right, that may be all I get for a time. I just don't want it to be all I get ever...

Do you think he's pushing me so that I'll file for the D and be the bad guy? Or is this level of punishment normal?

(((((Mrs.Rob))))

You need to get some boundaries.

Allowing him to mistreat you will not HELP your marriage.

Tell him what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior from him.

And enforce them.

His expectation of SF is unacceptable.

Praying for you.

~ Marsh

You can't.

Please get boundaries.

MrsRob,

You are not very far along in this sitch.

The F2F thing you can easily rectify. I do not condone his actions or calling you a F pig. I mentioned that in your other thread.

So every night you go over to H and say "hey big boy how about a roll in the hay!!!!" or "Hey cowboy saddle up it's time for some lovin!!!!"

Now the F2F is on him if he turns you down.

For me I did have a problem with the level of SF in our M. I still do. As a man knowing my FWW was open to another man it was difficult. Also knowing that most if not all of their incounters were well after she normally goes to bed at night. So on a night I wanted SF and got the it's late thing it bothered me. It actually hurt a lot. I wanted my FWW to wear something sexy and come on to me. I wanted to know and feel like she had a high level of desire for me.

Not like it is a chore and she will fulfill it if I ask, if she isn't tired etc. I wanted her to make me feel desirable and wanted. Yes I wanted her to come on to me every single night. Not forever but enough to help me regain that feeling I lost. Whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

Is that extreme? Yes. The worst thing was when my FWW rejected me for SF. It hurt a lot.

I can say just make yourself available and be the agressor.

If he calls you names say well then I am sorry you feel like that but now I need to go to bed.

When you say that it hurts me. If that is what you are trying to do I understand I hurt you but your words are not going to help this M get better.

I think the normal human reaction when you are hurt is to try to hurt back. You can validate that you understand the hurt you caused but you will not tolerate him trying to hurt and demean you.

Mrs. Rob,

First please please reread what Marshmellow posted to you. You do need to set boundaries. You need to explain to him what you will accept and won't accept and make those boundaries stick. Yes, you are the WS, but you cannot recover this marriage if you don't have respect for yourself, and he does not have respect for you. It starts with realistic boundaries.

You need to understand that you want a MARRIAGE not a slave relationship. He needs to understand that as well.

You stated
Here is a point that YOU need to address with him. He needs to understand that marriage is NOT a game, there are no score boards, and there are no points to win or lose. He can win if he stays in this marriage, and the win is being happy with his spouse. It is his call. He will only lose IF he decides he WANTS to lose. So the question to ask him is: Are YOU a loser? He needs to understand that he is acting like a loser when in fact he can be a winner and be married to you. In fact, the goal is for BOTH of you to be winners.

The question you need to ask him is what does he think it would take for HIM to feel like a winner? The problem with our sports focussed society and modern politics is that every thing is view in a binary fashion (win/lose) there are no other options. IN marriage as in many things there are many options that can lead to win/win, lose/lose, or NOTHING of the sort. You both need to be aware of this and discuss what would be a "win" for you and what would be a "win" for him.

He doesn't understand that in the "game" of marriage HE gets to decide what makes him happy and a "winner" not us or society. But, he can ONLY "win" if you agree it is a win with him. If he divorces you, he will NOT win, he will lose as he has with this children from the first marriage. He may be free of you, but he will not be a winner.

Next you said
Listen to your Mother, she is telling you to set your boundaries. Do so.



Ok, this next answer is going to get me thrown out of the "all male" fraternity. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Why would you have sex if it is not enjoyable to you? Why would you have sex if you don't at least get the satisfaction of pleasing your H?

You see if it is revenge sex, then it is not about pleasure, it is only about relief. You need to sit down a tell him what YOU want in the bedroom. You need to explain to him, that he is NOT a good lover, and you want him to be. It sounds very harsh, and it will hurt him to hear this...more than you can realize. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But, he needs to hear it or he will not or cannot get better. He needs to understand that if you enjoy sex, HE will enjoy sex even more. Explain this to the boy and do it so he understands it.

Sex is a very very powerful bonding action, especially for us males. However, what is going on now, is just that sex and not love making. What you need to do is explain this to him without love busters, without attacking him, and with a clear path explained for him to change this. IT will hurt him, it will push him away for awhile, but if you give him a way out of the box so that he can reclaim his self-respect and be the lover you want, he will very likely do it.

THEN YOU MUST MAKE DARNED SURE IT IS A WIN FOR HIM. Do you see what I am saying here?

You also stated
He does not want you to "win" and telling you how he feels will make him vulnerable and he fears being vulnerable to you right now. Sooooooo...you have to use your female guile to get this information. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You ask questions that are NOT about him, but say some article in the paper. Make it third person, or "how would you address this if you were..." Listen carefully to what he says. He wants you to know, he just doesn't want to hand you a weapon to exploit his weaknesses. That is why his use of the word "cuckold" to describe himself was so important for you to really hear. The clues are there, and you can obtain more information as you go, but you have come it side ways perhaps.

So set your boundaries very clearly and effectively.
Gather your information very quietly and carefully.

Those are my recommendations.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL