Hello all, i'm a first time poster, but i've been browsing for a while. Here is a QUICK timeline of my story (more details available on request). I've got a couple of questions afterwards. I've been married 5 years and have 1 2.5 year old son.

Summer 2005: I leave for Iraq. When I left I know that I wasn't in a picture perfect marriage, but I didn't know it was about to fall apart.

October 2005: Unknown to me, my WW decides she has had enough in our marriage and begins dating without me knowing.

Dec 2005: mainly because I was fighting a war and had my head up my [email]a@@[/email], I only now begin to pick up on the 'little' things. i start checking email and myspace and phone records (yes we had computers in Iraq) one thing leads to another and finally i hire a PI who confirms the A. Chaplain in Iraq gives me the book surviving an affair.

Early Jan 2006: I confront WW with evidence and she gives half hearted confession. I ask her if she wants to save marriage and she says yes.

Late Jan 2006: I arrive to a less than happy homecoming. After 5 days, WW tells me she is unhappy with the living circumstances and wants other arrangments. In a fit i storm out of the house and that was the last time we slept together under the same roof.

Feb 2006: After negotiations for uncontested divorce fail, we both hire lawyers and end up filing on each other the same day. WW contact with OM supposedly ends in late FEB. OM moves 1000 miles away (confirmed).

Mar 2006: in a stunning upset, the Judge gives me house and child in her temp order. Angry at the turn of events MIL starts calling my CO complaining. My CO had my back, but my lawyer orders NC with WW.

June 2006: after 2 months of NC WW leaves message that she is done fighting and wants to settle. We talk it over and come to some agreements mainly about my son. Lawyers presently working on agreement (they WORK SLOW DOWN SOUTH).

Sep 2006:I've been doing alot of reading here lately, and i've been missing WW. I decide its POSSIBLE we might have a chance together. Tonight we have most meaningful disscussion in months (by that I mean we did not argue and we talked mainly about our son and nothing consequential). Near the end I ask "so what do you think about us?" "I don't know" she says and starts to say some 'foggy' things like 'too much has happened' and 'i don't want to go back to our old marriage'. Finally I ask her "if you tell me its over then fine, I'll accept that". Too which she said 'i don't know' and 'i'm not going to say that'

So what do you think folks? Is the old A still going on long distance, or has she started a new A? Or is it nothing? Do I have any chance? Is it worth it?

1. You haven't provided enough evidence to determine whether she is still having an affair, but let's assume she is.

2. Yes, there is definitely a chance.

3. Only you can decide whether it is worth it or not.

If reconciliation is what you want why not get into counseling? During the course of counseling over time, the issues that created your marital problems prior to the affair can be examined and you will have a better opportunity to decide whether they can be solved or not.

If she is a good mother to your son it would definitely be to his advantage for the whole family to live together under one roof, assuming you can be happy doing so.

I don't have any evidence of a current affair because we barely communicate (until tonight). Right now the only thing we have agreed to do is spend more time together. She says she doesn't want to move home only to move out again later (I actually agree on this). If and when the time comes for us to live together it will be when we are able to renew our lifelong commitment together (my opinion). Also cohabitation could cause me a legal setback (so my lawyer tells me). She agreed to read a book about 'fixing our marriage'. She doesn't know the title. I have a feeling she'll freak if she sees the title 'surviving an affair'. Would it be better to give her 'his needs her needs' as a way to get her to understand the MB way?

Yes. What about counseling? Is she willing? That should be a requirement for the two of you getting back together, otherwise there is a likelihood of falling into the same old patterns.

I will broach the idea of counseling after WW reads the book, is receptive, and we are comfortable with the amount of time we are spending together. How do I find a MB friendly MC?

There is another dimension to my story. WW has close 3 girlfriends (GF) that are in various stages of marital difficulty.

GF 1 is divorced, and living with OM she had A with while her H and I were in Iraq. H moved 6 hours away with their 2 children. GF 1 lives locally.

GF 2 is R'd/R'ing at this time. GF 2 had A while here H and I were in Iraq. (GF 1 & 2 H's and I were in the same unit) GF 2 and H and 2 children moved 1500 miles away.

GF 3 has been separated w H (different unit than me) for 1.5 years. They are fighting it out thru lawyers. Early on in separation while H was on Deployment GF 3 had OM move in to marital house w/her. GF 3 lives 4 hours away now, but visits frequently. No children

When GF 1 & 2 H's and I were discussing things early on (Nov-Dec timeframe) we found it frightening how similar our WW's were sounding to each other. GF 1, 2, and WW all started their affairs w/in 2-3 weeks of each other. At the time I was sure they were in collusion. However now reading on MB forums that almost every WS uses precisely the same language, 50% of the collusion theory goes away. Do you think they were/are in collusion?

I do feel at a minimum that all 4 girls have provided encouragement and support to each other. I feel that if my marriage is to succeed WW will need to split from GFs. Am I being fair? Should I feel this way?

bump, no opinions?

What about the Harleys? Click on Counseling Center at the top of the webpage to check it out.

i meant local as well. sorry. no opinions on the GF's?

Collusion probably isn't the best word to describe it, but I don't doubt that each of them provided moral support for each other in pursuing the affairs.

When you have friends or relatives who engage in affairs it helps to lower the boundary threshold for the same type of behavior in yourself.

Actually though, what has happened is that these friends have influenced her values, which has affected her behavior. What counseling should accomplish is a return to her former values, assuming they were against infidelity.

You probably shouldn't dictate who her friends should be.

Sure, it would be great if she associated with someone more sympathetic to your cause of recovery, but maybe you should tackle one bad relationship at a time. Make sure there isn't an ongoing affair, talk to your wife about counseling now, and let her drop any friends who support infidelity as part of her OWN desire for recovery.

I feel that if my marriage is to succeed WW will need to split from GFs.

1. Am I being fair?right now "fair" is moot ... I'd go for practical ... and when things are more functional between you and WW ... then insert "fair" into the mix ... so, for now I'd say it is not practical/pragmatic for you to even discuss her GFs with her. She will feel the need to defend them. Save this discussion for when you are in a more stabilized relationship.

2. Should I feel this way? feelings exist without the boundaries of "should" and "should not" ... I think a better question is this ~~~> can GFs influence what your wife chooses to do?

clearly the answer is "yes"
especially if your WW is not of strong character and derives her identity through other people

was this painful or helpful or neither?

Pep

Pep and hiker, thanks. both helpful. Yes you are right about GF being influential. From here I'm going to take it slow, spend time with her and see if she opens up or not.

Someday, hopefully, your wife will become fully repentent and no longer wish to associate with GF1, 2 & 3...UNLESS, they too become fully repentent FWW's. However, even then, without full assurances to YOU and your confidence in such assurances that they are friends of the marriage then her continued friendship with them may likely be un-POJAable with YOU.

I wouldn't worry about it too much right now, but later in recovery and with the introduction and practiced application of MB principles in your new recovered marriage you two TOGETHER can resolve this question about the friends. It may be about a year into recovery before your wife approaches YOU with an honest discussion on the subject. Have patience. Work on your marriage for now.

I will give you one example. For approximately 10 months of recovery my wife assumed and I was OK with us attending her 20 year high school reunion in the summer of 2007. OM was an old high school boyfriend that still lives in her hometown 750 miles away. Her old high school girlfriends are very important to her. However, OM will likely, not certainly, be in attendance. I was fine with going. I am confident that it would be no problem, however, my wife, Mrs. W, has decided, after seeing a couple of the FWS's on MB falter at the slightest contact with their OP's, that it's just not worth the risk to our family. We are way more important to her than 1 night at some silly reunion. She made the call that we are not going. I didn't have to push for it or request it which is/was likely wrong of me but perhaps my confidence is part of the thing about us that she values. Maintaining NO CONTACT, MB rule #1, is that important and I commend her for appreciating it. These principles take TWO to work.

Mr. Wondering

Mr. Wondering,

Does it bother you that your wife might question her own ability to resist the attraction of the OP?

(Incidentally, I have read and admired your posts for many months now.)

Thanks, Mr. W. I know very well it's a touchy subject with her. The question is who has the most influence. GF 2 is at some point of reconciliation. GF 1 has displayed some of the worst morals of a mother (short of outright neglect, abuse or murder) that I have heard about, seen, or read about (including this forum). GF 3 is well known around town as the 'town wh***'. Who has the most influence in WW. I know i must compete with them. For me the turning point will be when WW can talk truthfully about her origional A and any previous/recent/current ones. I know enough about the origional A to be able to spot a Lie. Only then can we implement NC.

I hope and pray that one day we will be able to fall back in love and renew our committment to each other. I've been through so much and so much pain, If the WW beast rares it's head again i'll be able to cut it off with minimal pain to myself.

Well I haven't posted on my story for awhile. To be honest very little has changed in the last few months. WW and I are still living seperatly, but we have been trying to spend more time together, usually at least one dinner per week. She never once has offered to explain her A. To be honest I haven't been pursuing her as hard as I could have either. I've been in the middle ground between plan A and B. As I've discovered that's not a place one needs to be. My son lives with me as is doing wonderful...truly one of the few parts of my life that brings me joy. But i've been lonely lately. The boy isn't very good at fufilling my EN's. J/k!! I'm now at the 1 year mark for my DDay, and it has me a bit down. I know this weekend will be little more than me and my son. But that's ok.

The last time we had dinner, my WW asked why we have dinner together. I didn't have a real answer for her at the time and she commented that it was because my lawyer told me to do it. (This is abusrd, it's actually against his advice.) Later that night, I couldn't stand it anymore and textd her saying it was because I still loved her. I've recieved no communication from her in any way in the past 4 days. I feel like i've booted it away with my half-hearted attempts and waffling over what I wanted. Oh well.