Last night the WW informed me over MSN that she would be sending me an email today. I said "i'll just call you on the telephone" to which she replied "i don't know".

She was having a party at her house.
It was painful. She has slipped further into the fog and dissapeared. She seems to love her lifestyle with the OM.

My intuition tells me that today she will broach the topic of divorce.

I wrote my feelings down this morning and am wondering if i should reply with them:


We’ve been best friends for 8 years and you’ve decided to make a wholesale change literally overnight, why?

What happened to, “I want to revisit our marriage in a few months”

I understand the draw of a new, exciting life. I am glad that you are happy but I am sad that you hate me this much. I never set out to hurt you purposefully.

The boys and I will miss you sooooo much,

All I ask is that you make sure that divorce is what you truly want in the long term. Do you really want me out of your life forever? I don’t want you out of mine.

You should know that each tiny second of pleasure that you obtain in talking to or being around “him” visits upon me and others in your world that love you... magnified in to the thousands...feelings of great pain, confusion, and sadness...that I could never wish upon you or anyone. It is insane that your contact has that effect on people.

I’ve taken great pains to cherish the love I have left for you. I am proud of this. Even though you have chosen to inflict extreme pain upon me, I have maintained my love for you throughout. I maintain that I am willing to go to any lengths to protect our marriage and make it better through this experience.

Our marriage was a good one. We named our children for Pete’s sake. We adopted cats, not to fill a hole, but because we were happy and wanted to share it.

I married you for life. I want to stay married to you for life.

You are welcome to divorce me. I won’t fight it. Just know that you will be divorcing someone who loves you more than you can possibly know for the affections of someone who was willing to interfere in a marriage. I hope in time the awfulness of this statement comes to some clarity.

I don't know how to respond to her nonsense anymore. It's like she has no idea that it hurts me or doesn't care.

Magritte,

""am wondering if i should reply with them:""

NO.

Very poignant, and well written, but I suggest you keep this in the "heart/broke read again later" file.

I don't know your sitch, but it's kind of "woossy" to me, IMHO. But again that is just me.

""You are welcome to divorce me. I won’t fight it."" Dude, SNAP OUT OF IT!!

""It's like she has no idea that it hurts me or doesn't care.""

OF COURSE SHE DOESN'T CARE!!! She has been abducted by an alien being that entered her body and is addicted to the OM and can see no other path but the one that leads to him and her fix from him. She cares NOTHING for you or the kids! Right now you all are in her way and a threat to her self-centered, selfish, self-gratification!!

THINK ADDICT!! THINK CRACK-HEAD SUCKING ON A CRACK PIPE!!

Rgr, thanks for the reality check.

So i would be better off replying with:

Sounds good. See ya around.

It depends, Magritte...
Do you want to D ?
Do you know what Plan A and B are?

Krusht is exactly right!

So, what to do instead?

Study Plan A, and do it with a vengence. Work mostly on you.

Affairs usually collapse under their own weight of lies, guilt and self-realization.

Assume an air of disattachment. Go on about your life. Be the best father your kids could ever have. Dress a little nicer than usual. Take your kids to the park or somewhere fun EVERY day. Immerse yourself in living a life without her. Live a life independent of her actions. Seek happiness without her.

Words directed to a WS are like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile. They cannot and will not penetrate her chosen life of self-indulgence.

The actions you take are what make a difference. Word will get back to her that you are the world's greatest dad. Word will get back that you never complain about her absence. Word will get back to her that you appear to be moving on....without her. In the mean time you'll be living your life to give exactly that illusion.

Plan A means correct those thing about YOU which were not healthy for the marriage. Boy's nights out...failure to do a fair share of domestic chores, excessive spending, excessive activities in which your spouse was not involved, etc. Also includes eliminating Love -Busters, Annoying Behaviours, Disrespectful Judgements, etc.

Purchase and read "Surviving an Affair" and learn about the dynamics of an affair, and what makes a marriage vulnerable. Knowledge is power. The more you learn the more you can impact your WW's feelings by ACTIONS, rather than words, which she can't "hear" right now.

Keep posting here for advice and to keep your attitude in a place that will keep you moving forward in a positive direction. All this takes an incredible amount of energy and dedication, so hunker down for the battle.

Best wishes,
SD

Until you actually get the email, you won't truly know what it is going to say. So unfortunately you can't really come up iwth a reply.
Your sentiments expressed above are true, and heartfelt, but don't send them. It will not have the impact you hope for. Instead of hearing: "we love you, and want you to be with us" she will hear "they love me, and I am hurting them, so I need to hurry up and get the D so they can move on and be happy again, eventually we all will be happy again"

My best advice to you - when you get the email DO NOT RESPOND right away. Wait. Give it time. No matter what it says, you will be shocked, hurt, angry, sad, etc. Do not respond while your emotions are so raw!. Give yourself time to reflect. Let her wonder why you haven't responded right away!
Come here, and vent, and give yourself time.

I would love to plan A but she won't call me.

The last thing i want to do i seem clingy or in pursuit at this point which sort of forces me into a plan B.

Just a few weeks ago she said that she wanted me to be part of her "healing process".

"sounds good. See ya around." NO NO NO and NO - NOT a good reply. Your wife is still in the FOG (read up on FOG) and not thinking clearly. There are many posts on this site where a FWW tells of being too far gone in the FOG to think straight and when the day does come that they can see their mistakes they are VERY happy that their H stuck around and loved them. From what I read, they are VERY HAPPY and show it to their H in bed!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Read here and vent here, don't vent at or give up with your wife.
M2L

You can plan A without her there, and when you have contact with her she will notice it.

Do you have kids who are they with?

Whatever you do, do not show weakness at this point. Take care of yourself, take care of your children, home and pets. Call up an old friend or family member that you haven't spoken to in a while, it will move your mind to a happier place. Try to remember what you did BEFORE you were married and maybe revisit some of your past leisure exploits. Communicat with short, well thought out, mostly emotionless answers.

All I can say is that I tried the heartfelt ploys to try to 2x4 my WH and it did not work. It only made me feel worse when he responded to me with blank eyes and empty soul.

Until I began to TRULY look at myself and learn to know myself and be myself again, my H didn't want to be near me. I was far too needy and it showed. We have been separated for over 2 mos, and are now talking of recovery. That aside, I feel better than I have in years. I am more clear in my mind, and my heart does not ache with anger, resentment, and sadness. I love my H and know that he loves me. I can live a life without him, but I CHOOSE not to now.

What I'm saying is try your best to only look at you, control you, work on you. Right now, you aren't giving yourself a choice, you are being led by the power of loss; Leave her to her life and she will find it isn't so appealing without her 'net' (you and the kids). Let her fall; let her fail. It is her mistake and she will have to live with it; you need to find what it is that you do not like about yourself in this marriage and work on it. Good luck, and keep coming here to vent

Magritte,

It's taken me a while to go back and read all your posts....but I wanted to understand the whole story before replying to you. Everything is wrong with this letter....I'm sorry. Please please....don't send it. Here are some simple rules to keep in mind:

When you communicate in Plan A....make it about your own changes....not what's wrong with your spouse or how awful they are. Use *I* statements....not *you* statements. For instance you said: "You should know that each tiny second of pleasure that you obtain in talking to or being around “him” visits upon me and others in your world that love you... magnified in to the thousands...feelings of great pain, confusion, and sadness...that I could never wish upon you or anyone." To make this an *I* statement....it would be more like this: "Each time I think about the two of you together, it is so sad and painful for me." The first is really just an accusation....the second is confronting her with your own feelings.

Don't beg.

Don't threaten.

Don't whine.

Don't talk about divorce unless you really want one.

If she talks about divorce, tell her you don't want one, and will continue to fight for this marriage....and that you won't let go quietly or easily because you know you can be the husband she needs.

You hurt her very deeply....and I'm not sure you truly realize how debillitating grief over multiple miscarriages actually is. With each miscarriage....fear, insecurity, paranoia, grief grows exponentially. So her grief was multiplying drastically at a time when you were feeling more and more powerless to help her. She doesn't really understand how compromised you were by your own grief. The OM didn't experience any loss....and only looked for his own gain. Have you done any research on this subject? Did you know that parents who lose children....even through miscarriage are far more at risk for divorce because of the exact dynamics you've described? Part of that is because they are BOTH grieving and have trouble helping each other....it makes it very easy for slimy people like your "friend" to take advantage of that.

Have you demonstrated to her....as part of your Plan A....that you are doing more than saying "I'm sorry"....and that you're researching the subject and have a greater understanding of just how isolated, powerless, and fearful you probably both were during the multiple miscarriages. There are books and studies on this subject.

Under those circumstances....giving her ultimata, moving to Plan B etc.....I sincerely doubt will have good results. You need to demonstrate.....as best as you can from a distance....that you are a "better" husband than you were before. Making demands or accusations, or even dissecting your pain....will probably get you no where.

If you want to write a letter....then the letter that might actually help.....is one where you explore your own grief during the loss of your children and that while experiencing your own loss....you were sadly unable to help her deal with her own. This is very common for parents who lose children.

Yes....her response to your insensitivity was incredibly wrong and equally insensitive....but the affair is the symptom and not the disease I think. She doesn't love this man....she loves that he was there for her at a time when she felt so lost and abandoned by you. My guess is that she still has alot of unresolved grief.

My suggestion to you is that you find a good grief counselor and see if she'll go with you. The marriage counseling may have to wait until the grief issues can be resolved and she can truly believe that she can trust you to be supportive. She felt abandoned by you....and feels somewhat justified in abandoning you in response. That's fogged thinking....but I really think the affair is a response to her grief and not because she doesn't love you.

Also.....she may be having trouble overcoming that grief within the marriage where the loss occurred....not unlike someone who moves to a new house when their spouse dies.

Magritte....don't give up yet.

Demonstrate change and willingness to explore these issues. Stop focussing on the affair and the betrayal if you can....because I honestly think she's responding poorly and dysfunctionally to her own feelings of betrayal and loss. That doesn't give her a free pass to act so callously....but I think if you can focus on where things began to go wrong for a little while....the affair will run it's course.

Be a better man....a bigger man than she deserves right now....and it will be ever so much harder for her to justify her unconscionable behavior.

Best of luck to you!

*bump*

Wow, that makes alot of sense. Unfortunately she has gone off to live with this scumbag and i have no face to face time with her. She limits our conversations to topics she can handle and if i try to broach miscarriages or other issues she says "this isn't the time to talk about that". She's been saying that for four months now.

We have no children. Our only children are our cats whom we both love dearly.

I supppose all i can do is write a gently worded e-mail to her demonstrating how i felt during the miscarriages and how i've explored that part of my life in counselling since then. I'll tell her that i won't give up on our marriage and that i don't want a divorce.

I'm not sure it will get through.

Here is the letter that i've assembled. It really sums up exactly what i've been feeling. All critiques are welcome.
Perhaps i'm addressing too many topics all at once.

Dear XXXX,

I’ve hurt you very very deeply. It’s been pointed out to me that i must have had no idea what level of debilitating grief you went through during multiple miscarriages. You were low, scared, insecure and wounded and I failed to be there for you when you needed me the most. I hope you understand that I too felt scared, powerless, grief-stricken. While your grief was growing exponentially, I felt less and less able to help you. I took that frustration out on you by calling you “pathetic” and making you drive yourself to the hospital. I truly truly hated to see you in pain and nothing I could do seemed to help. I was in a terrible state and unable to deal with the grief and loss. Somehow it made sense to me to try to shock you back to reality while avoiding more pain myself. It was inexplicably wrong.

We were both in a state of grief and powerless to help each other. I’m sorry that I chose to hurt you further. I was insanely insensitive and compromised by my own grief. Tough love was not a smart option during a horrible crisis. You know how much I wanted children. We both wanted them soooo much. My brain melted down a little more with each miscarriage. The silver lining is that I know that i've come away from those experiences a better man and a better husband.


I’ve done a lot of research trying to figure out why I reacted in that way.
There are some familiar themes here: http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.htm

I’m not sure that I’ve truly dealt with the losses of our children yet today. I often wonder if you have either.

OM didn’t lose anything. He suffered no losses and can never understand what we have experienced together. I understand that he’s been a great support system for you and I’m glad for that but he did so at our expense and “knowingly” with a married woman. You deserve better than that. Each time that I think about you being around “him,” it visits upon me and others in your world that love you... magnified in to the thousands...feelings of great pain, confusion, and sadness...that I could never wish upon you or anyone. It is insane that your contact has that effect on people.

I know that the affair is simply a symptom and not the disease itself. I know that you feel that you can never come back or surmount the wall built up between us. I will continue to chip away at that wall as long as I can.

I’m also going to seek out a “grief” counsellor and see if I can work through my mistakes and my unresolved grief. I hope you can find a way to do the same thing when you are ready.

The greatest gift for me would be to know that you trust me again. To know that you have faith that I would support you in your time of need. How do I get there with such distances between us?
A friend pointed out to me that because you felt so abandoned by me during the losses of our children you might feel more justified in abandoning me today. I hope this isn’t true.

I want to be the best husband and father that I can possibly be. I don’t want to divorce you nor do I want you to divorce me. I married you for life. I want to stay married to you for life.
I would like the opportunity to communicate with you about the past and how we got here. Saying that I’m sorry is not enough. Saying that you’re sorry is not enough.

WOW,

I didn't send the letter.

Instead we talked on the phone tonight for about an hour. We talked about lots of small stuff, daily life, hobbies, our kitties, plans etc. Then we segued into some relationship talk and it started to get heavy. I was so proud of her for not throwing in the towel. We talked about the miscarriages and she said that she just can't get past the hurt and pain that she feels when she looks at me. I said that i understand and i didn't want her to feel pressured to return. I said that i was her friend first and foremost. I told her what i was going through during the miscarriages and how they affected me and my ability to comfort her. We both cried alot. She said that she wasn't coming home and that she didn't want to say "yet" because that might give me false hope. I replied, "you just said it" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All in all it was a great therapeutic conversation. I truly wish that i could find a way to melt her frozen heart a little bit allowing her to trust me and have faith in me.

I said that we should keep the lines of communication open and she seemed receptive but said that she doesn't want to feel pressured to contact me on any kind of schedule.

This is all so weird. I feel like i'm taking the whole world on my shoulders a little bit. She won't talk about the affair and dismisses it as nothing, that my actions caused her to leave and it had nothing to do with anything.
I find it pretty hard to believe that we would still be talking with 1000 miles distance between us if it wasn't for the affair.

I love her so much and i know she still loves me. When i say supportive things i can hear her voice crack and whimper. Is this guilt or is it the ice breaking?

Its bittersweet because i know that i won't hear from her now for God knows how long.

What is my next step?

Magritte,

Your next step is to put action behind your words....demonstrate (consistently! over time!) that you aren't just "talking" and find a grief counselor who can help you understand how these losses undermined your relationship with your wife. Share those things with her when you have the opportunity. Let her intiate contact....but respond lovingly. Remember that you are in this for the long haul and don't push or rush the reconciliation. If you handle your wife tenderly now when she is acting badly.....you CAN make up for handling her badly when she deserved tenderness. She doesn't love this guy chere....but she needs to feel loved and cherished and if you can do that....he won't have a leg to stand on. You know that you are a better man....now is the time for you to prove it.

The honest truth for everyone who comes here....is that none of us have power over anyone but ourselves. You can't change your wife....but you can change yourself in ways that make her want to change too and make it impossible not to love you. She needs to feel your strength, your compassion, your spiritual growth....so that she can trust you to take care of her in the future. Right now, she will doubt that the changes you're making are REAL....to make them real....you must demonstrate change consistently over time. Trust takes a long time to build...and seconds to destroy.

Meanwhile, the OM has mucho opportunities to show his true colors. He's a snake that took advantage of your wife's grief....and it's hard for a snake to keep from slithering....his true nature will reveal itself. NOW...MORE THAN EVER....it's vitally important that you don't lovebust....that you let HIM make the mistakes. As your wife sees your change....he will become more desperate and make more mistakes. So please....don't threaten, don't file, don't give ultimatums, don't beg or plead.

Rebuild your relationship with your wife's family if that has been strained. Let them know how compromised you were by your own grief and how deeply you regret that through your own tears....you hurt your wife. They can be powerful allies if they know you're experiencing real remorse and they begin to recognize that miscarriages affect fathers as well as mothers.


Probably both. And don't be surprised if you get some anger too. She may be angry that you are giving this to her NOW when you couldn't at the time she really needed it. She is probably feelings some regret and guilt as well....little moments of conscience and breaks in the fog.

Be patient Magritte.....you can turn this around if you can control your own emotions and your own impulses. Work on feeding your spirit and strengthening your own resolve.

((((((((((((((((((magritte))))))))))))))))))