Truly --
This might be a mars/venus issue.

You supported HIM in the way that YOU would like to be supported. Do you know that is what he wanted?

I think you need to talk about this. Don't assume that he values being supported the same way you do, and don't assume that it comes naturally to him.

Laura,

I agree with ITHURTS.

It's one thing to let your SO know about your "needs" and take the ENQ but what you went through, should be obvious to any adult (and let me say I'm really tired of excusing men for not being more emotionally available when they should be just because they are men) that some comfort and care was due especically since he was your BF of over a year.

It's like that suggestion I see on MB all the time: men are visual creatures.Well,ask any biologist,ALL humans are visual creatures.I know I am ,very much so.I find it to be an excuse for certain behaviors.Like my ex.Who tried to use this as an excuse when he stared at other women.

Laura,are you going to talk to him??

jmo

Well, before this last crisis, we would see each other once or twice during the work week, and see as much of each other as possible on the weekends. We would talk on the phone at least every other day. His silence this time is obvious.....

I couldn't agree more. This will be a big topic of conversation when I do speak to him next. And, oh goodness, if simple kindness and compassion doesn't come NATURALLY to him, then I guess the writing is on the wall. While I realize that ALL relationships take work and effort, some things just should come naturally - like compassion.

Yes, I agree. I cannot excuse him for this just because he's a man, and it's socially acceptable these days to excuse them for being "insensitive clods" just because they are men. That's bull. I mean really, couldn't he simply say "I'm sorry" for God's sake? No excuse I've determined.

And will I talk to him again? I'm hoping to. But he's avoiding me. I'm a little too raw about the whole thing right now for ME to pick up the phone (and quite frankly, I think that maybe it's time for HIM to make the effort). I will be really disappointed if I don't hear from him soon - which in turn will make that conversation all the more difficult. I am hoping that this latest episode will not be the relationship breaker without at least talking it out - but I gotta tell you, his silence is speaking volumes to me.....

When I see the words "He should..." in this thread, immidiately my LB alarm goes off.

There is a love buster that essentially is the viewing of one perspective, point of view, or way of doing things as superior to others, and I believe there are many who are encouraging you to participate in this LB.

I'll leave the research of the LB's to you to see if you can identify which LB is being thrown around here.

I agree with those who indicate that all you have control over is you, and that he may not know exactly what you want, so you may need to ask for it in very short direct sentances.

Otherwise, what is the difference between:

He should be more sensitive to your needs.

You should just suck it up and accept that what happened happend and you shouldn't be so emotional about what happened.

Very little. (Those are examples by the way, not advice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Both sentances indicate that the views of the speaker/writer are superior than the alternative. That's what "should" means, that the advice offered IS THE way to do it, and all other ways are inferior.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which approach you'll take <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

EE,

How did I know you'd show up on this thread.I hope you are not suggesting that Laura didn't deserve some compassion and care for what she went through as it seems to me. Afterall,it isn't an LB/DJ to feel the need for some comfort.She went through surgery,a biopsy and lost her pet.Her BF of over a year didn't even bother to call.I don't believe for one second it's an LB to suggest that he could/should have called her to lend his support let alone go see her.

If you go back and reread the LB concept on this site,you'll see that a strong part of couples hurting eachother can be due to a lack of empathy .Nowhere was it recommended Laura go and shout demands for comfort to her BF but *I think if we are living in a day when having your SO comfort you through a difficult time has to be discussed first since the other may just not view that as necessary or is a DJ,LB,is a sad commentary on how we treat one another.

Some people here take the concepts so literally as to do damage to their SO's.The should references the basic common courtesy and care she should have received,or anyone for that matter, for going through 3 difficult and scary events in her life.In my view,not showing this to someone you supposedly care about/love is a prime example of the lack of empathy Dr.Harley talks about.


Again,JMO.

AB,

I don't think I ever said that it was a LB to have EN's. What I believe I made clear was that is was an LB for one to state that their particular version of how they want their needs met is what others SHOULD know and do.

I do think it's an LB when we start saying this is what anyperson, he or she should do.

I agree with the idea of having a discussion and clearly stating what she wants and needs. I believe she is being set up for disappointment and LB'ing if one subscribes to the "he should..." line of thinking.

Again, that doesn't make her needs illegitimate, they are her needs.

But by saying "he should..." that makes HIS values and therefore his needs illegitimate.

They may not be a good match, especially if she needs someone to just pick up on what she needs and provide it. But that doesn't mean he is wrong, or his needs are wrong or his way of dealing with such issue is wrong.

It may not be the way she wants them met, but that is very different from say he is wrong, I.E. "he should..."

One last note, odd that folks mention common courtesy, as I see very little of that today.

Few folks say please and thank you, and if you drive more than 5 minutes / day you probably see all sorts of examples that lead you to question where the term comes from.

There are all sorts of folks who drive with the "me first" attitude, from tailgating, dressing/applying makeup whilst driving, cutting off others, not signaling, and dozens of other selfish acts.

I'd like to think that I'm courteous, and I believe that many others think they are too. The issue is that each of us has a different idea of courtesy.

I wouldn't think a thing about the death of the dog, but would probably hold the door open for the OP, if I saw her with hands full trying to get into a building, let her go ahead of me at the store if she had two items and I had a full cart, would say please and thank you, would wave her into traffic if she was trying to get out of a parking lot, etc.

Courtesy means different things to different people. So to say that this guy lacks common courtesy is probably a DJ. It's more likely that his picture of courtesy is different from hers.

That doesn't make it better or worse, just different.

Dating and marriage is about how you deal with the differences.

I percieve statements such as "he should..." or "she should..." as trying to change someone to fit the speakers mold.

I believe Patricia Evans would call this control.

Finally, on the empathy question. I believe it's unrealistic to expect someone to feel the same things you are feeling.

I'm not saying that she should put up with him if he's saying that her feelings are wrong. It's obvious she has strong feelings and attachments to the dogs, and felt a great loss when one passed.

However, to expect that he would understand these feelings is unrealistic.

She would like him to understand them, if I understand what she is saying.

But then, if I said, I believe my spouse should be able to drive a stick shift car, and if she can't then she doesn't really love me is as much of a potential LB as what many are saying here.

I'm not saying it's wrong to want someone who has the characteristics she wants. I'm saying it's probably not realistic to say "he should..." have these characteristics when talking about a specific person.

You wouldn't feel ANYTHING if a loved one of yours lost a cherished pet? Absolutely nothing? Wow......

And, I am so sorry, I say this with all due respect, but yes, he SHOULD understand my feelings of fear and sadness and anxiety about the surgery, cancer scare AND the death of a cherished pet. That's just common DECENCY..

Another thought - I truly agree that sometimes things in a relationship can be "discussed to death" - which I find exhausting. I respect and understand the need for good communication (I'm still working on my skills and am most certainly not perfect) but I also believe that some things (like manners, courtesy, decency, empathy and compassion) are innate behaviors - either you got 'em, or you don't! And I'll pass on those that don't have those basic skills/emotions.

Hmmm,

I said I would THINK and you filled in that I didn't feel.

Perhaps if you start with not changing my words around fit what you think or feel we'll better understand each other.

I never said I wouldn't feel. I doubt I'd feel the SAME things you felt, since we are two different people.

I'm a cancer survior, so I know not only what it feels like to hear the doctor's suspicions, but also know what it's like to go through multiple surgeries, chemotherapy, follow up visits.

Personally, many emotional displays come off being rather fake to me. I see people getting all ooey gooey emotional and I'm turned off.

Perhaps your partner is the same way, so he doesn't think to be that way because it bothers him when others respond with what is often called "common courtesy."

There is nothing wrong with you liking it.

But I contend there is nothing wrong with my being uncomfortable with such responses.

We probably wouldn't be a good match for one another. However, I will not just sit by and have someone tell me that my ways are "wrong" even if they are not speaking directly to me.

I have feelings, they are just different than yours. I'm not unfeeling nor am I uncaring. I just share different values.

Everyone shares different values, and what we call common courtesy is defined differently by everyone.

I could say, if you don't use turn signals everytime you turn, you lack common courtesy. But given the apparent lack of this "common courtesy" it appears it's not so common after all.

Let me once again say that I'm not saying you are wrong for wanting what you want. I'm all for you finding what you want in a relationship. Instead, I'd like to caution you that expecting a person to meet your standard, because you believe that any person SHOULD is setting yourself up for disappointment and judgmental behavior.

I do hope you find what you are looking for.

Enlightened - I in no way meant to offend you, and if I did - please accept my apologies.

And you just might be right here - maybe I am setting myself up for disappointment - because I'm still sticking to my self-righteous opinion that he SHOULD have thought enough about me and my feelings to pick up the phone for a one sentence "how are you doing".

Since that didn't happen - I am disappointed. And I'm still sticking to my self-righteous opnion that I was not expecting too much when I hoped for that phone call or other gesture of care.....

I believe I understand. However, it appears to me that you are equating his lack of a proper action with not caring.

I don't believe you can make that assumption. You may be right. You may be wrong.

Can I encourage you to ask him how you can tell he really cares.

As I and others have said, he may really care, yet express it differently.

If you really love him, is it worth the time to really understand him. You just may find out he cares far more deeply than you ever thought because you didn't understand his language.

Again, this doesn't mean your way is wrong or that you can't ask for him to learn your language.

Thanks - and you're right, I am equating his lack of a satisfactory (to me) action with not caring. I'm hoping that I'm proven wrong.

I will talk to him soon about this, and then yes, it will be up to me to decide if I can live with his ways of expressing emotions.

I'm just very hurt right now, so I'm not all too excited about picking up the phone to discuss it today.

An update - just FYI - the day after my dog crisis, I walked to the mailbox in tears for some alone time, and to put two birthday cards in the mail to him (his birthday was yesterday). I got to work yesterday morning, and I got an email (still no phone call) thanking me for the birthday cards - and he went on to tell me that he was having dinner with his two daughters and how excited he was to see them on his birthday. The email ended with no "how are you" - or "hope all is well" - absolutely nothing.....just all about HIM. So, I'm still disappointed. Not mad - but very, very disappointed.

Laura,

I do hope you talk to your BF soon as all this is still fresh.I'm not going to even acknowledge EE anymore (ignore user option) as we do not and have not seen eye to eye and I don't agree with his way of thinking and I know he's talking about me as he picks out words I use in my responses ( sorry minor tj there).

There is nothing wrong with the word should.It's not a four letter word and I'm talking about what you went through,not all the worlds issues.There are expectations out there that we deserve,anyone deserves.And the fact that someone would suggest that they shouldn't show comfort to a loved one or one that they cared about just because they felt they shouldn't ,sounds like spite to me."I don't feel like it so I won't do it" I have had that conversation before here.

Just keep an open mind ok? And don't second guess yourself.You weren't wrong to deserve some compassion.Yes maybe your BF expresses his love in a different way but really,no call whatsoever for all those things you went through? We're not talking specific sexual needs or desires.Would you not comfort your child if ill or scared? Would you not care for and comfort a sick or depressed parent or spouse? Would you not send flowers or a card,for example, to someone close to you that endured a death in their life? Common courtesy and care.

It's just infuriating to think that someone is arguing about whether or not to give some comfort and care to a BF/GF/SO in difficult times.I would never be with someone like that if they had to think about it first.

And by the way,don't sell yourself short. .

If I were in your shoes,I would feel this way too.You are not alone.In fact,it was times like these,where my ex didn't seem to care about me even if I got hurt,that things between us went down hill real fast.

Thanks AB - you're right. This was a HUGE learning experience for me re: the BF. I found myself comparing him to my ex-h (bad thing to do, I'm totally aware)who also was the King of Denial of any type of emotion - my ex-h did not show compassion ever - I was always alone in my marriage when I needed a strong shoulder to lean on. I will not endure another relationship like that.

I did not break a nail and expect my BF to be upset about it - I lost a cherished family member. I'm not over-reacting (convincing myself). Believe it or not, the dog dying was the most important of the three life events (the biopsy and surgery) to me, as he knows how important my animals are to me, so his lack of compassion is both puzzling and infuriating to me. Infuriating because I thought I knew this man, he's the type of person that would come running and drop everything for a friend in need - and was (I thought) a giving person - he coaches youth football, he's very active in church ministries, very deep in his faith, and is one of the BEST fathers I've met. Whether I'm right or wrong here, his silence regarding a time of MY trouble is sending me a BIG signal that I'm just not as important.......I have been looking back on things this last week, and I remember when a church friend of his father died (not too long ago). My BF was the FIRST one at the funeral home, and sat with his buddy the ENTIRE day of the wake - didn't leave his side. Then, the day of the funeral, my BF went to work early in the AM, drove over 50 miles during his lunch break do get to the church service, and then drove another 50 miles back to work afterwards. At the time, I thought to myself that my BF was a wonderful, caring person to think so much of his buddy at his time of need. Hmmmmm, and I'm asking too much in expecting maybe a little hug? I don't think so!!

I will talk about this with my BF - but apparently we are playing a little "cat and mouse" game - I still haven't heard from him after his "warm" email greeting on his birthday. So, who knows - pride might just very well be the nail in the coffin of this relationship.....

Perhaps you will or will not read this, but someone will.

I wasn't talking about you, but was talking about the attitude that one way is better than another.

I want to make it clear that I have never said that what you want is not a valid need.

I do believe that it may be an unmet expectation with this man,

So I would like to ask that you consider the value of advice that seems to twist the words that I've used to mean something that they do not mean at all.

But no one has said a person shouldn't express care, concern or compassion.

I certainly did not say those words. I said it may not be natural for him to express this in YOUR language, but have never said that a person shouldn't express those things.

I ask that you read carefully and not fill in things I've not said.

I think this is ironic. Saying that you won't read what I have to say because we don't see eye to eye, but then encouraging her to keep an open mind.

Or am I the only one who sees this irony?


I too encourage open minds, and reading all the words and not filling in meanings that are not there. Either from me or your BF.

Best Wishes.

Ah, come on, isn't it a little silly to become "infuriated" just because a fellow poster refuses to be a cheerleader with the "the BF is such a jerk!" group, and simply asks the original poster to consider that perhaps her BF is not a jerk, but just different? Sure, she may decide that the difference is enough for her to break up with him, but all that EE is saying is that they might want to talk about it, and eliminate making too many [censored]-u-mptions... What's the worst that can happen?

And instead, here we have two adults who have dated for a year and a half, and are now playing the "silence" game. I think that an honest conversation would be much more beneficial - it may lead to the same result, but at least it would be handled maturely.

AGG

THTB,

I think that we struggle with men because we want men to be like us. And they are not. They just don't think like we do - I grew up with all brothers and I'm still amazed at how the male brain works (or sometimes doesn't work.) The struggle would end if we could learn to see our differences as challenges to our own personalities.

Your boyfriend may be an insensitive clod but until you talk about it, you'll never know. Give him the benefit of the doubt. Then, whether or not you decide to stay or go, you won't need to second guess your decision.

AGG,

I am not going to address EE anymore as I said.I can't see what he's written anyway with the ignore user option on.Of all the years I have been here,it's the first time I have ever used that option.He just rubs me the wrong way,maybe he reminds me of my ex.Maybe infuriated was a bit strong, mad might be a better term or,very upset. So I prefer not to read what he has to say.He can do the same to me if he wants.

Nowhere did I say or suggest the BF was a jerk.If you want to call the BF's lack of empathy/care/ love for what laura went through being different,fine.But I don't agree with that.If different means she doesn't get a hug,a call or any sympathy for what she went through,then if I were her,I would take that difference and end the relationship if that's how he handles things like that.



I do agree with this and like I mentioned,I hope she will talk to him sooner rather than later.I think it's best to address concerns in a relationship right away.She doesn't know how he really feels about her.In my view,it could be two options: he just doesn't have the compassion ( or skills) for her when she needs it at trying times or he's not into the relationship as much anymore so doesn't feel connected enough to show her a little sympathy.Maybe it's something entirely different.Until she talks to him,we won't know.

Laura,

You don't need to overreact,just explain how you feel to him and discuss what has happened.Until you do and you continue to stay clear of eachother,you won't know what's going through his mind.

Edited to add: I have been thinking about the oft mentioned idea that men and women think/act differently.It kind of reminds me of other phrases used here.But,as much as that may be true in certain areas,I think about my Dad,Uncles, and other boyfriends and guy friends of the past as well as my ex *in our better times and they all had a comforting word,hug,card or ear leant to listen when I went through scary/painful times.Not once do I recall having to talk about it first to see if they were OK with supporting me.They were there to listen,offer support,call or help out in anyway.It came natural because they cared about me as I did for them.

So it's just my gut feeling that if a man,or woman for that matter,does not show affection or compassion for a SO when times are tough,there's something wrong.jmo