I kow that it has been awhile since i have posted. I had to weather the storm that was brewing in my house.

WW finally spoke to me last night (thruogh AO and foggese)about what was on her mind.

With OM going or gone from the picture. She is blaming me for screwing up her life.

last night she said that she was mad that she couldnt speak to me about things that bothered her. so i took a page from HS book and listened to her.

WW following story (more or less)

I have loved OM since i met hem 15 years ago. he was going thru a stich just like we are now and it was tough. He couldnt handle me and the stich so he paused our R. that is when i tried to commit suicide. In hospital my sister reached out to me and invited me to come to chuch. I invited him also. OM didnt want to come , i went anyway and after a few years i met you and you made me happy. i forgot about all my troubles and sad times and started to love you.

all the time i never really parted ways with OM and in my heart pretty much still loved him.

A couple years later in our marriage when our paths crossed.I relived all those old feelings of love that never really left me.

due to the detoriation of our marriage i turned to the only person who was always there for me. OM.

Then one thing led to another. The rest is history.

Now OM is getting married to this woman he met 5 years ago and she is a good woman to him. But i am in love with him and he is in love with me.

He cries and said that due to his obligation to the other woman that he cannot break off the engagement but WW will always be his true love.

I am loosing the only person that i truly was and is still in love with and there is nothing that i can do about it.

that is why i cant feel for you. I am not in love with you to start with"

To tell you the truth. listening to WW was both PAINFUL and yet hopeful in terms that she said this to me.

I know that there are some calls made from her office to OM.

I dont have solid proof yet.

maybe never will.

I told her that i was greatful for her sharing with me. ihowever have a setback when i asked her "Did he say that he was in love with you?" this she went around the town before answering yes. then accuse me of attacking her with my question. I apologised.

she also said that she sees the pain it is causing me an if we got seperated that it would be because she cannot do this to me anymore.

Not being able to be affectionate.

gotta step out a bit...... more to come................

back now...what do i do now?

this morning she said that she feels used and like a prostitute. That love means nothing to her now. that it was all taken from her.

i asked her why didnt OM break off the engagement and be true to his heart?

Her reply is that he made his choice and it wasnt WW.

She is insisting on living in seperate rooms and to only be friends.

she sounds very confusing. and guilty.(if they can feel such a thing)

what should i do now?

i guess she opening up to me is a good thing.

WOW, NC, she is deep in the fog.

Any chance you could get her to go to a good IC? Or read any of Dr. Harley's books?

Yes, it's good she's talking to you, and giving you a chance to meet her EN's.

~ Marsh

Thanks MM, I thought she probably poped out for a moment in sharing with me what she was going thru in her mind.


I gently suggested she get IC but she looked at me blanked then refused. Saying that she is just going from day to day living not caring anymore.

Funny i forgot to mention......she said that she saw changes in my life that are great (so they DO NOTICE) and that she has nothing left.

said that i am lonely and now with OM getting married and out of future picture she is lonely. so she prefer to be alone and not give to anyone except DS.

we spoke for approx 1.5 hours.

Just to have her see reality a bit.......tempting.

still plan A? give her more space?

she said she doesnt trust anything i say. that i say one thing one minute then changes the next.

she doesnt trust my motive. she still thinks i want to save my M (how perceptive)

I told her that i will always view myself as her husband and i will do all that a husband should do....i wanted to borrow Mr. W line and say.."i refuse to stay in a loveless marriage!" but what is the point when she is trying to convince us that we are not married anymore or now we are just friends?

So how do i proceed from here?

nc007,



IMO, NEVER NEVER aplogize to a WS when asking about ANYTHING that the WS has done or felt that negatively impacts your M. In my neck of the woods that is not called LB'ing. It is called self respect.

I will remember this cymanca, Its probably a lowering of my guard to try get her to open up that i accepted anything. I thought that she might clam up again.

Like she rambled about it this morning and said might as well be gay.

I didnt entertain the subject

I think you could say "I'm my question upset you," which is really a nice way of saying, "I'm sorry you're the kind of person who would get upset by a simple question like that" lol. Perhaps the distinction is lost on a WS, but so is almost everything else.

"I'm sorry you feel that way." "I'm sorry, but I disagree with you." "I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with this." There are all kinds of ways to use the word 'sorry' that do not apologize for anything the BS has or has not done. It may not work for everyone, but I had very good success with it, as a form of RB.

This is not to take away from Cy's very good point: do not apologize for asking questions, being hurt, or any of the other natural BS things you do. (She would have you apologizing for breathing if she could.) LB's, DJ's, or AO's would be about the only things that would necessitate an apology.

She is foggy and does not see that if OM really wanted to be with her, that he would not for one second maintain his engagement to ANOTHER WOMAN!!!!!!

Since chances are good that you'll need to go into Plan B before it's over, begin preparing now. A good Plan B takes time. Think of everything you would need to have contact with her over, and then think of another way to take care of it.

Take stock of any financial matters that would need attention, any custody problems that might arise, anything she might use to try and get you to break Plan B, and have a plan to deal with it.

Work on your letter, post it here. Keep up the great Plan A in the meantime.

Though it may take plenty of time, she will come to see that the OM is only a fantasy, and not even a very good one at that. She will almost surely realize that her place is with you, and over time become the woman you know and love.

You wouldn't want her back unless she did, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ya doin good!

I am in plan A for a bit now Neak. Just 3 1/2 months. i am wondering that the time i set for Janurary (6 month threshhold)should still be maintained. I dont know. Do i still need to start plan B from now?

Just asking.

If so i will start making plans now.I have the book SAA and was trying to follow a similar time table.

all advice appreciated.

Shortly after I came on here, the numbers changed. Apparently Dr. Harley began recommending a Plan A of 1 1/2-3 months for women, and 3-6 months for men.

So really, you are inside the window already, timewise. The general rule of thumb is when you feel your love reserves getting low, (not empty, or even too close to empty), then it is time.

You are probably ok right now, but too much longer of having to listen to how much she loves the OM is going to send your love bank into a major hemorrhage. If you begin preparing soon, you will be ready when it is time, and not scrambling around when you're already stressed and growing resentful.

Then you can pick the time that works best for you, and goes along with the advice of some Plan B experts. (I have learned quite a bit about the procedures, but don't know as much about timing. My own was quite rushed, lol.)

This sounds like withdrawl to me. Granted, she's very foggy, but they always are when they're in withdrawl.

I say just try to do the best plan A you can manage at the moment, without being a doormat. No R talks, and just do what you can to support her while she's dealing with the grief from the death of the affair. It won't mean anything to her right now, but it pays off when she comes out of the withdrawl and sees that you were still there, taking care of her and loving her while she's going through this. It is TOUGH...it was the hardest part for me, but it made all the difference in my case.

Stick to your mantra (I don't do divorce, and don't feel we should talk about our R right now). Show her your love with actions, not words. No LB's, no matter how much it hurts trying to nurse her through the loss of OM. And take care of yourself too. Do things for YOU as well, and keep the plan A idea of making yourself a better choice for her when this is done.

Just caring for her through this can make the difference. It did in my case at least. When she came out of the withdrawl, it was clear who it was that REALLY loved her...and she realized she'd never stopped loving me. She'd just stopped letting herself SEE that love so she could justify what she was doing with OM.

thank you owl. I needed that, sometimes she talks about an alternate marriage history, and all foggese language. YET she gave me a card sunday for my birthday. saying that she is glad that i am here.

Sometimes it takes a toll.

Its a good thing that MB exist.

question: Was it wrong that i pointed out that he doesnt love his fiancee when he tried to fool her about this just being a "friendly" relationship?

i fell into the trap of asking her questions about OM genuine care and validity for the "R".

she said to stop because she doesnt feel any better.

trying to learn to listen. She is just moping about the seperation and not having her true love.(sick)

will try to stay away from R talk and D talk.

I'd say that it wasn't wrong...if you say it once.

Don't keep it up, but plant the seed of that thought in her mind. It'll grow even if she doesn't want it to.

I know it really makes you feel sick to listen to her talk about OM that way...I had the same issue. Best bet is to keep that observation to yourself for now. She'll resist any efforts to educate her while she's in this stage. Just realize that her feelings of loss are real...to her at least. Justified? NO. But they're there. Don't fight about them...recognize that they're there, and help her to get past them. We had a lot of discussions about how she felt that really hurt me. But I was able to listen without LB'ing, even if I didn't think they were valid.

It took several months after we were really in recovery before she started to realize how off her thoughts were herself. It's a process.

Treat her like she just lost a parent or family and is hurting from that loss for now. But...do NOT accept blame where it's not due. Don't fight, but don't accept it either. A balance somewhere in the middle.

ncoo7,



You see that this statement is a verification that she does not value losing you at this point. Why is that???

When you show her self respect and the adamant position that you will not accept anything BUT respect from her, statements like this won't pass her lips. It is situations like this that make me even a stronger proponent of Orchid's quote in my sig line regarding Plan A.

Owl are you saying that i should "validate" her loss of the OM? to basically listen to her "loss"?

That is going to be hard but i understand.

funny thing though, whenever i call her and i cannot get her she will tell me where she went and what she has done.

will keep all observation to myself for now.

hurt like ****** though.

I can't tell you what the proper "MB" plan for withdrawl is...

I know what worked in my case.

Bluntly, as much as it hurts to face, you KNOW that your wife had huge feelings for him...justified or not.

My case...my wife had an online emotional affair with someone she never met. Do I REALLY believe that what she felt for him was "true love"? Nope...she couldn't have truly know the REAL person well enough to have really been 'in love' with him.

But that didn't matter. What mattered was that she was suffering. So I tried to let her know I understood that she was hurting, and tried to help her heal from it.

When she came out of it, she realized how much I must have loved her to help her get through that.

The bottom line? I still loved her, and still wanted her to get over the whole thing. At the time, I'd never heard of MB. I simply did what seemed the best I could at the time. It was almost exactly plan A...both the exposure and the improvements.

You need to walk that balance of not accepting blame for the affair, and letting her 'reap what she sowed' against still loving and caring for her.

Again...I don't know the "MB method" for withdrawl. This was mine.

I hope this is withdrawal, but my understanding is that if there is any contact at all, it is not truly withdrawal, but hopefully at least the pangs of a dying affair.

You still handle it the same either way, at least for now.

Agreed Neak.

The one thing that can trigger the start of the withdrawl prior to NC is being "betrayed" by the OP.

In NC's WW's case, he's marrying someone else and made that (apparently) clear to her.

In my case, OM told my wife that it was over. Don't come to live with him. (He could tell she was starting to be indecisive, and he 'overreacted' when she was talking to me on the phone) She sobbed and cried herself sick for two whole days.

It triggered her into withdrawl immediately. Even when she tried to resume contact later, she was STILL rebuffed by him and it kept the withdrawl going.

Now...TRUE recovery doesn't start until NC is in place. But if the OP starts destroying the affair before that happens, withdrawl can start before then. At least in my experience.

Neak i think you might be right. She keeps repeating last night that she lost the only love she had truly known, although OM said that he was in love with WW, but cannot break commitment with GF.

Is she blind?

withdrawal - i take it that i am included....no affection to anyone.

There are times that i want to just hug her, even for a sec.

Just to say that i am there. At least she said that her mind is all over the place.

thanks Owl , Neak...i will keep all what you said in mind.

Owl, that is so interesting. It makes sense, though.

I don't have any real experience with WD. The first time around, he kept all WD to himself, even when I asked him about it, for the short period of time before he just started back up again in C. The second time, he was so disgusted by the tricks and manipulations that he didn't really have any.

NC, it's hard but be patient. She is feeling pulled 2 directions, and that is always tough. Especially when one of the directions doesn't want her any more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

patience is a he11 of a thing. Its like that movie " My Best Friends Wedding"

OM marrying GF and cheating on her with WW

WW running after OM

Me running after WW

All lonely.

Damn!

Owl , Neak..........thank you. Need to search the board on withdrawal and the signs.

Funny that first she wanted to get a place for herself. then it is to get a place because she cannot take looking at the pain she is causing me (LOL in a sck way that is funny).

But i will be patient though.