Last nite WW came home from class. I had dinner prepared for her and some dessert.

Assisted DS with homework and got him tucked in. WW asked why i didnt call her any at all yesterday. I told her that i wanted to give her space and that i know that she is going through a rough time.

She then said driving home she cried several times and wanted to end it. There is nothing worth living for.She said that DS was in good hands with me.

I just listened and looked at her.

Then i asked how she felt about going to get IC. She flat out refused.

I told her that i will always be there for her in case she needs support.

She doesnt want to have anybody support her.

then she changed the topic.


First off how can you profess your lost love for the OM to me! expect me to take it......and then bite my hand off when i offer an olive branch.

Yet still if i want to detach..... she ask why am i ignoring her.

So today i sent an email to her to encourage.

Hello You,

Just saying hello and that i am hoping that your day today will be a bit better. Your tears a bit less. Thank you for sharing with me your secrets and your fears.
I will treasure them and protect your feelings / thoughts. Take it a day at a time. I strongly believe in what i am fighting for......to protect and be there for my best friend (wife) and son. My family. This is what test character. I will have hope for all of us. My choice to follow this path.

I am not demanding anything from you, Just that you believe in a better tomorrow..........even if you dont see it now.
God is carrying you now..........and you are not alone.(even if you think you are).

For better or worse................

hope.


She calls me saying that this is not helping her feel any better and she is feeling miserable.

I can understand that things not working out for her fantasy has caused her to suffer withdrawal. I am also trying to meet some of her ENs the top one she said was security and not in a financial way.

But what is killing me is the mood swings.....friendly then hostile.

what should i do?

Ride it out.

Seriously, don't let yourself get caught up in her swings any more than you can help. When she is up, be grateful, but know that for now at least, it means she will also swing the other way. Just being prepared, expecting it to happen, should help some.

NC-

Remind her of all the bad things that have already happened in your lives. All of the other things that she felt she'd "never get over".

But she did.

This is the same. She WILL get over it. Tell her to think about what she'd tell DS about the loss of his 'first crush'. How would DS feel...what would she tell him about getting over it?

It's the same thing, only she won't want to realize that now. Eventually it'll make sense.

My wife went through the exact same saga. I reminded her of losing her mom, then her dad. I talked with her about what she'd been telling our daughter about the loss of her BF DURING the affair.

She will get over it.

Now...at the same time, don't accept blame for any of HER feelings. Tell her that you understand that she's feeling miserable...but it's not YOUR doing either. When she gets mad at you for trying to help, don't fight back, but make it clear that YOU aren't the one who's hurt her here. You're the one here trying to HELP.

Then walk away for a while and let her stew in her own self-pity.

It stayed like this for about 3-4 weeks in my house before my wife started to come out of it. And even then, it came to a head when I'd gotten sick of the way she was treating me and actually started to look into the whole divorce thing. When she realized that she'd LOST OM...and now was really facing the possibility of losing me too, after all I'd done for her...this is a big part of what prompted her choice to reconcile.

If you're not already, consider going to the doc for AD's...and if your wife makes another commment about suicide, let her know that you're going to talk with the doc about it and see what has to happen to protect her from herself.

These thoughts aren't unusual...my wife had them too. But you need to make sure she's not going to act on them.

Thank you Owl..... the part about 3-4 weeks is a long streach for me that they go through. I wish i thought of those lines that you are showing me now. I needed them this morning.

Neak.........Ride it out. This "soap" is rougher than a bull.

This morning i was in the car and WW looked way more depressed than normal. I asked if she was depressed and got a look of pure hate.

Then she proceeded to ask me if i am lying to her about the OM saying things about her.

I responded that if OM truly was in love with WW then he would dump fiancee and ask WW to marry him. I wouldnt stand in her way of happiness.

She said that i am trying to destroy OM character and integrity. (WTH)

then she pines.....TO ME!.that she misses his contact. (again WTH!)

WW is taking OM words over mine and says she doesnt trust me.

I said that i am going to be the best father and friend to her and do everything to love and save my family....with or without her.

I gently then touch her hands and said..."call if you need anything"

I leaned to kiss her on the cheek and she said "lets not do this now" (insert spear in heart here.)

withdrawal is a bitchh ....... ride this out neak?

I dont know. This morning i felt myself getting angry.very angry. How could WW think that i dont deserve"her love" and gives it to another man and sends me thru he11.

I know that it was emotion...so i kept it in check...but this morning i didnt care anymore.just for a little while.

later she called me saying that she was just feeling lousy.

my response? "i am still your friend"

I dont know whether to say friend or husband.

any coaching in how to behave during withdrawal? in terms of mindset when speaking to WS?

Owl..i really got this morning to the point of sick with her attitude. the Self pity....the "everybody is using me" bit.

Just loving my DS. she stayed in the car while we played on the way to his classroom.(yes deliberately to show WW that i dont care after holing her arm and saying that i care.)

DS and i had fun. Maybe thats what prompted WW phone call.

Again, don't accept that from her. Be gentle, but unyielding.

"You're just trying to trash OM's character!"
Well, do you really think I'm going to like this guy? Think about it...of course I'm not. But I'm also not trashing his character. I'm simply making the point that if THIS were his intentions, then THIS would be his actions. Think about it.

"You're taking OM's words over mine...I can't trust you!"
No...I'm taking OM's ACTIONS into account. You know that actions speak louder than words. He doesn't 'love' you...I can tell by his ACTIONS. And where am I in all of this? Still right here trying to help you...even after all of this. What do THOSE actions tell you? And on the trust...what have I done in this entire situation that makes me untrustworthy? Have I lied to you? Decieved you, or even OM? Nope...again, think about it.

On the friendship thing...here was my take.

My wife wanted us to remain 'friends' after she ran off to live with OM. She pictured this odd three way family, with me being her and OM's best friend. And the kids living back and forth between us.

I blew that notion out of the water. I made it clear to her that if her choice was to leave me for him, then there would be NO relationship between her and I of any kind. Not lovers, not friends...NOTHING. I spelled out pretty clearly how I would feel about her if she did that to me. And made it clear that leaving me like that was not only a betrayel of our marriage, but of our friendship as well. I pointed out consequences of this choice...that I would NEVER be in the same room with her again of my own choice. That if she EVER brought OM in my sight, I'd not be responsible for what happened.

And she knew I meant it. I never make idol threats. She knew it. And that blew her little fantasy world out of the water. She realized it really was a choice of completely destroying our family and our friendship over a relationship with him. There would be no middle ground.

Let me ask you...are YOU willing to accept that middle ground? If so, fine. Then continue the friendship talks with your wife. If not...make it clear to her that while you're here for her now, you won't always be. She WILL have to make the choice sometime soon of what she's going to do. Sitting on the fence, pining for what she can't have...will only go for so long.

You need to THINK about what you're willing to accept in all of this. And make that clear.

I like your take on the friendship thing........owl that is EXACTLY what i am going to do next time she brings up leaving. She hasnt though. she more mentions living in the house but seperate rooms since her life in search of love is over.

She keeps reiterating that we (she and I) are just working on our "friendship".

I WISHED there was a way to redo conversation this morning with your input.

If OM is abondoning her why all the "loyalty to him"

is she MAD?

ok so i know what to say in the future.

This evening her office has a function and she is going. I have DS for the evening / night.

ADDICTION!!!!!!!!!

Just remind yourself that she's acting just like a lovestruck teenager, with no thoughts about ANYTHING other than how she feels right now. She can't care about anyone, anything else other than what she's feeling...she won't let herself do so, because that means she'd have to face the responsibility for the position she's in.

But most WS's can't keep that up indefinitely once the affair ends.

You can let the 'in house seperation' thing go on for a while. In fact, we did the same thing. Neither of us could sleep in our bedroom (kind of an odd story behind that), so she took to sleeping on the couch, and I was on the loveseat for the first week. After that, I moved down into what had been our famiy room.

Another thought...I was actually helping her to get herself ready for a real seperation...working with her on her resume, getting an apartment, etc... One of the 'kickers' on this was when she told me that any apartment she got would require a year lease. And told me she was ok with that. I told her that if that was her choice, then we weren't going to seperate...we were going to divorce, because I wasn't willing to wait a year for her to make up her mind.

You need to set some boundaries on what you're willing to accept from her. Recognize the pain she's in IS something that will go away in time, help her deal with it, but don't accept responsibilty for it.

Make it clear to her that she's going to have to take steps to help herself heal from this...you can't do it all. You're there for her and you love her, but SHE has to make the choice to work through things in order for them to get better. And if she chooses to do that without you, make sure she understands EXACLTY what that means too.

Don't know how "MB" this approach is...but it's what I did in my case.

I just wanted to say that as a former WW- I think you're doing great.

Keep up the good work!

coachswife......thank you. Thanks so much. Just trying to do the right thing.

Neak , Owl, CW.........we have a long commute home and back(approx.45mins.) it is a bit ackward to remain quiet in the car. am i to look independent / unconcern or do i try to broach topics with her. Do i let her come into her own when she is ready to discuss whats on her mind?

I say let it get quiet. Even if it's uncomfortable to you, don't show it.

She'll sit there and stew in her thoughts til something prompts her to start talking...at which point, YOU JUST LISTEN.

Don't fight, don't argue, even if you disagree, let her go on, AND PAY ATTENTION. If you learn to disregard the fog, you can learn alot about what's going on in her mind, and that is ammo to help you win the war. You can help her, help yourself, by knowing what's going on.

Make the appropriate noises, ask clarifying questions, but offer no comments or judgements or observations. Let her go on until she stops and looks at you.

THEN provide your own views, comments, whatever. Think about them first...AIM your comments to do the most good. Again, leading questions to let her come to the right conclusions on her own are best. NO DJ's!!!!!!!!

If she gets loud...you get quiet. If she rants, shut up and let her rant. DO NOT RESPOND TO ANGER. This helps a LOT to keep things calmer. Once she gets done yelling and ranting, wait quite a while to respond. Think about your response, and keep it low toned so she has to LISTEN for your response. Again, the louder she is, the quieter you are.

It will force her to actually LISTEN to what you say back.

But if you ride the whole way in silence, it will send a clearer message than shouting for 45 minutes.

Don't lecture her, don't educate her. Let her talk. Ask leading questions to get her to think about what she needs to work out. Do it QUIETLY.

My wife and I started walking the dogs together just before bed during her withdrawl time. I used the EXACT same tactic to help her. This was when she was still all set to leave...but it was one of the key ways we learned to start communicating again.

Hope that helps.

I am truly greatful to you owl. You are an inspiration.

Did you expose like i did?

Due to our financial arrangement, she cannot move out.

i am just a litle tickled that she confirms w/o me scooping that OM hasn't contact her for awhile and questioning me if he said that he loved her.(long ago).

I will do just this however. Thanks again Owl.

printing off your advice. any other imput appreciated

I 'inadvertantly' exposed. But it had the same effect, because basically I did it for all the right reasons, without knowing anything about MB at the time.

Here's how it went for us. She'd been gaming online with this guy for about 2-3 months...she was a SAHM, and had been doing online gaming for about a year. During this year, she'd actually had the start of an EA with someone else she'd met in game, but it got broken up when I started to get involved and he backed off too.

But, that last 2-3 months when she'd started gaming with the last guy, she really started to change. Quit doing household work (except for laundry, which she could do at the comp), quit cooking, stopped taking interest in anything to do with me and the kids, and was confrontational about everything. I realized she was spending more and more time gaming with this guy, and then found out that they'd been IM'ing each other during the day while he was at work as well.

Finally I knew something was wrong when I caught her trying to close a chat window so that I couldn't see the contents. She got it closed, but it was the final red flag for me. I hacked her IM account that nite and enabled logging. It was 5 days later before I got the chance to check it out...she'd stay in bed right up until I left for work, and would rush downstairs and get on the comp.

When I checked the logs, I was floored. They were convinced that they were in love with each other, and had started working out a way to meet in person to "see if what the felt was real". I emailed the logs to myself, dropped my son off at school and went to work. Normally I'd tell her good bye before I left, but couldn't do it that morning. I went to work, called my boss and told him my wife was having an affair, and took the rest of the week off. I then sat down and went through more of the log...I was physically sick.

She IM'ed me asking why I'd not said goodbye...I told her that something came up. She asked what...I sat for a few, then emailed her a copy of the log and told her that she could check her email and she'd see what was up. I then packed up and went home.

When I got there, she couldn't deny what I had. I spoke to her for a few minutes, and then left because I had to work things out in my mind first. When I came home a few hours later, he'd bought her plane tickets to go live with him...even though they'd NEVER met in person!

She broke it to the kids that afternoon...and then moved out to a motel for a few days pending the flight. During that time, I called all of her family and mine, looking for support for me, and for them to talk with her and see about getting her to THINK.

It worked. A lot more to the story than that, but that's where the exposure came in. Her sister told her bluntly she was an idiot for doing what she was doing, and that I was the best possible thing that could have ever happened to her. Later, after OM had told her not to get on the plane, one of my sisters called and spoke with her. Turns out MY sister had had an EA with someone...and had ended it before it got out of hand, so she could understand what my wife was going through, but also KNEW that marriage COULD recover from this...talk about an asset!

God had everything set up so that we had our chance at recovery. I firmly believe that He had a plan here. And once I realized that...I simply prayed and asked him to make whatever His plan was to happen, and guide us that plan...whatever it was. If it was the end of my marriage, then I asked Him to show us that, and to give all of us the strength to get there. And if it was for our marriage to recover, that He help us make that happen...and help us work through that as well.

Sorry for the long post...but I hope it shows you that things can get better...I think you're in better straights than you realize, since OM apparantly isn't communicating with her and has made his choice. If you can ride out the withdrawl and work what little plan A you can during this, you stand a very good chance of recovering your marriage.

Hello all,

My weekend was ..........for lack of a better term wierd.

WW came to me friday night from her office party and told me in detail what had happened there.(why?) Then offered that we have dinner together...lobster. and the movie? Lethal weapons 4. what a night just laughing and relaxing.

She then fell asleep and i calmly got up ,kissed her forehead, got the blanket and gently covered her and left.

Slept with DS in bed.Weekend tradition.

WW came in sometime early morning and continued sleeping.

Got up eventually and made breakfast for WW and son.

She got breakfast in bed. Eventually she started crying and went back to bed (withdrawal?)

i asked what was wrong then WW said she had a terrible headache. Got some pills for her and told her to relax.

I prepared to leave for a Job interview (one of her EN was to feel protected emotionally as well as financially)

she started crying again. so i came over, sat on the bed and put the pillows around her then lie down beside her and hugged her(!!!) tightly and told her its ok .let it out.

she did.........for about 20 mins.

then i got up when she was better and left. she told me sorry for making me late.told her not to worry about it......she mattered most. my family matters..


That evening she told me that they have ended it and she is "so in love with him and dont know if she can get oover OM"

Said that if i want to divorce her its OK because she has done some pretty damning stuff. Like you all said, i just listened.

When she was finished she cried(again). I tried to reaffirm that i wasnt going to leave her at this point when she felt like all is lost.If i wanted to have SF i can go ahead with her because she doesnt care about anything anymore.I told her that she is a gift. Unique. and definitely not a sex toy.No SF untill she wants to. I value her and will vow to protect her thoughts and feelings (SH line).

It is tough though........listening to her pining over the OM as her true love,which she will never have (who am i chopped liver?)

hugged her again.

sunday we had an argument....and the taker in me slipped out. I started to tell my WW that her "love" is a low life. disrespectful......you get the picture.

she then lashed out at me saying that whatever i say about him...I SAY ABOUT HER TOO (i honestly dont get it)

then she talk about being a whorre and a prostituute and such.


at the end she is in pain that he is getting married and her love is slipping away.....AND SHE IS TELLING ME THIS?

at the end she says that i have grown and that i have everything ahead of me to achieve. She has nothing.

that when i talk about OM in that manner she will lash out at me in his defence. (yes she actually told me this)

I did not apologise for it. I apologise for not listening to her and allowing it to escalate into this argument. her feeling was totally validated and i understand.

That probably threw her off. Anyway i hugged her and went out to my Job.

Later in the night i got calls from her asking how the job is going and all. I kept the conversation short.

Came home late last night and she was up studying. she then got up and prepared dinner for me (although i told her its ok, not to).

We then chit chat about some shows on TV and she asked about my work with some interest........then i retired.

This morning i got up and prepared stuff for the working day.

My wife was in the shower and i asked her if she was going to be long.

THEN SHE asked me to JOIN her ...to finish quickly of course.......talk about restraint .Ugh.

on our way down she was surprisingly engaging.and trying to explain something about as OM wedding date comes closer she is going to feel alot of things.

she shared that with me........(do i have to take it?)

I emailed her this morning a menu for "Dinner for one"

dessert was for her to go to bed and get some rest.

she responded."dessert boring,can it be spiced up?"

back and forth probing until she called and asked why i didnt respond to her last email.Asked if she could take a raincheck on dinner..and proceed to explain in detail why.

ask if she could get it tomorrow. Said fine.

I know its the roller coaster.......but the "up" feels good.


No calls on cell or at home. (That i know of). I know there must be some form of contact at work thru office lines.

she also said(her words) " Our love is LIKE A DRUG(yes Ms.W) and she cant see how to come off it. It may take time"

and

"My feelings and thoughts cant come back overnight it going to take time.please be patient"

What do you guys think. Where do i go from here? any imput.much appreciated.

Owl did just like you said.........."let her talk" in the car.

she talks ....i just listen and smile when appropriate.

It works. thanks.

nc:

I'm trying 2 stay off the boards more. I keep getting dragged back in2 fruitless arguments over fundamentalism. I also get dragged back in2 the quagmire of hurt that others are going through, and since I'm no longer in that "mode" finally, it's important for me 2 focus on my fu2re with my W. Not my WW. Not even my FWW. Just W.

So that's why I haven't chimed in for a while. But it's important 2 note where you are right now...


It is TRUE. You say those things about him, you ARE saying them about her. It is also true that she's chosen 2 be as much a low-life as he has. But she's your W, and he's not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />, and so you have a vested interest in helping her overcome the addiction 2 him, whereas it's not important 2 you or your family whether he drops off the face of the earth at 3 this afternoon (it might help matters if he did, but he probabaly won't).

So, you need 2 stop talking about him, especiallly in front of her. Listen 2 her, be supportive (also be honest about how you feel), but don't rehash your own thoughts about the OM because he is NOT your problem - your W's addiction 2 him is.

I think all the things she's saying and doing are very positive. She hasn't realized that love isn't a feeling, it's a choice. And so the feelings she has for the OM, though they have a firm grip on her at this time, WILL FADE with time - but it will likely take a long while.

Remember that recovery takes 2-5 years, and you've not reallly even started yet.

That is life. That is personal growth.

-ol' 2long

2long i missed you. thanks for chiming in with your input. It is one i always value.

"........So, you need 2 stop talking about him, especiallly in front of her. Listen 2 her, be supportive (also be honest about how you feel), but don't rehash your own thoughts about the OM because he is NOT your problem - your W's addiction 2 him is.........."

I fully understand now.

Hope your wife is OK and things are getting better. Saw your pic on MB. Really cool.

Please feel free to pop in now and again. Greetings from the sunny island of Jamaica.

Here's part of the trick with the stage you're in right now...

You can't do much to educate her...ESPECIALLY ABOUT OM!!!! Or her R with OM.

Trust me, I firmly believe that OM is scum...

But...telling her that will gain you nothing at this point. It may be true...it IS true I've no doubt...but it won't help your situation by pointing that out to her right now. She's NOT capable of letting herself see that about him right now. So for right now, don't talk about him. You'll just force her to defend him...which only hurts your situation. Don't discuss your feelings about OM AT ALL.

Here's a good read for you. Go to a bookstore and pick up a copy of "The Five Languages of Love". Don't worry about reading the whole thing...read the first 2-3 chapters. One is an overview of the "five languages' concept...which is quite good, and another is about "Love". And it does a GREAT comparison of 'long term love' like in a marriage vs. 'affair love'.

Another good book to look for...pick up a copy of "20 (Surprisingly Simple) Rules and Tools for a Great Marriage!" by Dr Steve Stephens. Buy that one...it's small, but some GREAT tools for your marriage in there. Read it now, and try to go through it again with your wife once she's out of withdrawl.

Hi NC,

Just read your thread. You're handling and interpretting Plan A much differently than I did. I'm not saying I'm an expert by a LONG SHOT!!! I'm just commenting...

I really focused on myself in Plan A. Not so much the wife. Whenever I tried to get nice, sweet, kind, talk about R, she just pulled away even further. We would get into a conversation where I would find myself "selling" the idea of staying together, reconciling, etc.

I didn't do the dinner thing unless I was making it for everyone. I stopped calling during the day or anytime for that matter. I've probably called her three times max in the past three or four weeks and it was for a VERY specific reason. I never engaged in a conversation about anything unless she brought it up.

By working on myself, I came across as more confident (because I was), more loving (because I love myself)... I became even closer with my children, which I didn't think was possible. I refuse to get angry and start yelling (angry outbursts... LB)... not saying I'm perfect, but when I feel that coming on, I do SOMETHING to stop it.

I also "opened the cage door" telling her that leaving is up to her. I'm not going to stop her. Also told her that I realize I can't MAKE her feel a certain way. The only way I can respond is by working on myself and becoming the husband that any woman in her right mind would want to be married to.

My biggest hurdle was my weight. I'm conquering that. I developed a plan and goals and worked toward them. I recognized what my wife wanted done around the house that I maybe didn't do in the past, I changed the way I dressed, started wearing cologne, styled my hair differently, controlled my eating habits, stayed cleanly shaven, got closer with her family (my biggest allies)... however, I also SHOWED her that at some point, the opportunity to reconcile will be over for her, and that I'm going to move on with or without her.

I also recognized and appreciated those around me who love me and support me and make me feel good. I started exercising alot, yesterday I bought a cook book. I always wanted to cook really unique, healthy food... no better time than the present. My daughter and I are going to bake a healthy pumpkin pie this weekend. I may go apple picking and bake an apple pie. I went to a gourmet food store and got some awesome roasted red pepper and onion relish, baked some chicken breasts, melted some cheese on them and poured the relish on top. The kids loved it and it was DIFFERENT from the same ol' grind. I keep the garage clean, get plenty of sleep, do laundry if I see it piling up, empty the dishwasher when it's full, power wash the house, make sure the water softener salt doesn't run out (the wife notices these things), blow the driveway off after mowing the lawn, weedwack around the house, fill up my wife's gas tank if I see its getting low, do my son's homework with him, make sure he's getting attention while we go through this, etc.

These are the changes I've embraced and let me tell you... I LOVE IT! I'm becoming the person I WANT TO BE!!! I gave up the pathetic "please come back to me" talk because it was doing NOTHING. I realized I couldn't beg her into loving me. I gave her a ton of space, but at the same time, didn't put up with being treated like crap either.

I also agreed over and over with the things she said she didn't like about me in the past saying I didn't like them either, saying "you're right, I should have handled these things differently". I DIDN'T follow it up with talk about the future, I'm just DOING IT!

I hope I didn't babble. I'm just excited about my life. I'm on a high these days, I know there will be bad days and some lows, but I keep my goal in sight. The goal of liking who I've become.

I hope this helps...

Babble away Walt you EARNED it. Advice is all it is. Advice. you look at someone stich and how it was handled and thier way of life.

thanks for your imput.......she is starting to talk to me alot more now and expressing feelings. I havestopped calling her at the office until we are at home.

I dont "beg her to love me"........but i understand clearly that any talk about staying together for the future can make her feel trapped.

I stay away from that too....

thanks for all your imput man i am going to print it off as a reminder from a friend. Funny how she is asking for input for things she has to do at the office.(never done it before)

gotta learn like you ......baby steps.....thanks again Walt.

back to work now........

Like I said, I'm no expert, but I do feel like I"m doing something right. I also don't want to sound like my journey is over... in fact... it's only just begun!

You're a good person. Love that about yourself.