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#1751978 09/28/06 06:33 AM
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Here is an interesting quote from Dr. Frank Pittman that I found in Psychology Today magazine:

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Out of 7,000 cases in 39 years, "I've seen only five established first marriages ending in divorce without somebody being unfaithful. Every year I think I've seen the sixth, but I wait and sure enough the other man or woman surfaces even though they deny and deny and deny. I saw nine cases of infidelity just today, kind of a typical day."

Coupled with the fact that Pittman says it's the cheating spouse who most often files for divorce, one might draw the conclusion that people rarely flee their marriage unless they think they have someone else to run to.

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So, could one then say that, without the OP there to run to, the marriage is the best place to be? Always was...


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Except for those cases where the relationship is abusive and no resolution is found, it would seem so.

There was an interesting study of divorce and its effects on happiness. Here are a few lines from it:

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Call it the "divorce assumption." Most people assume that a person stuck in a bad marriage has two choices: stay married and miserable or get a divorce and become happier.1 But now come the findings from the first scholarly study ever to test that assumption, and these findings challenge conventional wisdom. Conducted by a team of leading family scholars headed by University of Chicago sociologist Linda Waite, the study found no evidence that unhappily married adults who divorced were typically any happier than unhappily married people who stayed married.

Even more dramatically, the researchers also found that two-thirds of unhappily married spouses who stayed married reported that their marriages were happy five years later. In addition, the most unhappy marriages reported the most dramatic turnarounds: among those who rated their marriages as very unhappy, almost eight out of 10 who avoided divorce were happily married five years later.

If you are interested in reading the article, you can find it here: http://www.americanvalues.org/html/r-unhappy_ii.html

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Yes, so many divorces. But so many divorces resulting specifically from "Adultery". Its sad.

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I found this quote of his, and like it:

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Helen Fisher, in ANATOMY OF LOVE, gives a fascinating neurochemical explanation of how
infidelity causes divorce: infidelity is exciting, causing an excessive production (in men and
women) of testosterone and amphetamine like neurotransmitters, at the expense of comfort
seeking and nesting hormones like oxytocin or happiness and contentment producing hormones
like serotonin. People in affairs are nuts, dependent, desperate, miserable and paranoid, unable
to relax around their familiar mates. They are not necessarily unhappy with their marriage before
the affair, but they are afterwards. Adulterers can’t reestablish intimacy as long as they harbor a
secret or fear their partner’s anger and rage. (See the recent movie UNFAITHFUL for a picture of
what a thoughtless, motiveless affair can do to a serene and cozy marriage.)

-ol' 2long

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Adulterers can’t reestablish intimacy as long as they harbor a secret . . .

I never thought about that, but it makes sense. Maybe that's why some therapists stress the need for both spouses to talk about the affair in order to recover.

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even though i didn't believe it....my mother kept telling me that a man never leaves unless he has someone to go to....i guess it's the same for a woman too

i hate to say it but my mother was right

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My sister and her XH divorced after 10 years of marriage over 20 years ago. I know for a complete and UTTER fact there was no else involved. They are still good friends.

But, yes, I do agree that most divorces are infidelity related.

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even though i didn't believe it....my mother kept telling me that a man never leaves unless he has someone to go to....i guess it's the same for a woman too

My teenagers told me the same thing. Unfortunately my H had left for the OW by then. For 45 years I thought divorces rarely occurred except after long periods of high conflict. When a friend of ours left his wife without warning after a 5 year affair (after forcing her to move every few years for their entire marriage because he was never satisfied with his job), I thought it was an aberration.

It seems that in a lot of cases, the WS has a history of never being content with anything - always looking for a new house, a new job, a new car, a new hobby, a new spouse. Such behavior is of course typical of people who are clinically depressed.

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Here's an excerpt from another article which discusses some of the changes in the "modern" view of marriage both from an individual standpoint and as a society:

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Now we want it all—a partner who reflects our taste and status, who sees us for who we are, who loves us for all the “right” reasons, who helps us become the person we want to be. We’ve done away with a rigid social order, adopting instead an even more onerous obligation: the mandate to find a perfect match. Anything short of this ideal prompts us to ask: Is this all there is? Am I as happy as I should be? Could there be somebody out there who’s better for me? As often as not, we answer yes to that last question and fall victim to our own great expectations.

That somebody is, of course, our soul mate, the man or woman who will counter our weaknesses, amplify our strengths and provide the unflagging support and respect that is the essence of a contemporary relationship. The reality is that few marriages or partnerships consistently live up to this ideal. The result is a commitment limbo, in which we care deeply for our partner but keep one stealthy foot out the door of our hearts. In so doing, we subject the relationship to constant review: Would I be happier, smarter, a better person with someone else? It’s a painful modern quandary.

“Nothing has produced more unhappiness than the concept of the soul mate,” says Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman.

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And on the lighter side, here is Dr. Pittman's response to an unhappy wife:

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Dear Dr. Frank:

My husband is essentially a good man, a good provider, and a good father. But I am not in love anymore. I believe it's a mistake to stay married for the children's sake. What do you think?

Signed: Not-In-Love

Dear Not-In-Love:

I don't think it is sufficient to stay married for the children's sake; parents have a responsibility to stay happily married for the children's sake. If you are married to a good man and still don't find it easy to be happy or loving, perhaps there is something wrong with you. You could be afflicted with anything from schizophrenia to romanticism.

Most likely, you are one of those romantic women who expects a man to make her happy. Men are useful for many things, but they are not generally kept around for their entertainment value. I've known women in your predicament who brought meaning and stability to their lives through such diverse activities as square dancing, fly fishing, and organic farming.

For your children's sake, if not for your own, find the things that will make you happy without having to run frustratingly through a variety of men, each of whom is sure to let to you down.

If you want variety in your life, try cable television.

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I told WH that I no longer believed in the concept of 'soul mate', and of course he laughed in my general direction and said, ' of course soul mates exist!'

I believe now in the choice of who you love. It's a choice. I choose to love him.


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Don't know how many of them has Manic-Depress.


Give your absolute best such that you could look back 10 years from now w/ no regret.

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I believe now in the choice of who you love. It's a choice. I choose to love him.

I agree. Love is indeed a choice. So is fidelity.

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Something I read yesterday... yuck.

8 percent of survey respondents would be unfaithful if they knew their partner would never find out.

1 in 20 (5 percent) of husbands admitted cheating on a spouse.

1 in 22 (4.55 percent) of wives admitted cheating on a spouse, according to “Men’s Best Life” in 2003, but 15 percent of wives responding in “Oprah Magazine” in 2004 admitted to cheating on a spouse.

1 in 3 men take off their wedding rings when they go out without their wives.

80 percent of cheating men get caught.

64 percent of couples preserve their marriage after an affair.

78 percent of the couples who remain married despite an affair later describe the marriage as unhappy or empty.

Source: www.divorcepeers.com

medc #1751993 09/29/06 10:39 AM
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78 percent of the couples who remain married despite an affair later describe the marriage as unhappy or empty.

Interesting and disturbing. Do you think this might be attributed to a lack of participation in a good marriage recovery program?

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I hope so.

But the positive way of looking at it is... 22% of the people that by all rights should have been divorced... stayed married and are happy. Even with the MB program... there are so many people here that have stayed married that are still not in a happy place. I feel for them and wonder if sometimes the wounds are too deep to recover. I think it all depends on the person and the circumstances of the A.

medc #1751995 09/29/06 10:53 AM
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So apparently only one in four couples who managed to save their marriage after infidelity consider themselves happy.

I wish they had broken that down into the happiness of the BS and WS. The other important item would be at what point the question of their marital happiness was asked; one year from infidelity? Five years?

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I also think that people need to look at their concept of 'happy'. There is a line in a Don Henley song 'Heart of the matter' where he says, "what are these voices, outside love's open door, make us throw off our contentment and beg for something more..". I think the western world has a scewed view of happiness, and many buy into that when they get married, also.

*Everything is going to be perfect with this man/woman, not because I do the work, just because...*


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It all amounts to searching for happiness outside ourselves, instead of within.

In a way, I think we are sort of conditioned for this through our own materialism. Buying or getting nice things gives us a temporary happiness "fix."

"There's nothing really wrong with my old car, I just like the way the new one looks. And it's got a sunroof!"

We've just extended that to spouses.

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